Hey Savage 69

[Tinstar]

Sorry to call you out like this, but I have a question . I asked Sperm Edwards the same question, and I would like your opinion also.

What do you think of Eli Manning as a QB   ?

What do you think of Peyton Manning as a QB ?  Not the Peyton of the Broncos, but the Indy Peyton Manning .

[dbatesman]

This thread, is a Good Thread

[joewilly12]

[Savage69]

37 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Sorry to call you out like this, but I have a question . I asked Sperm Edwards the same question, and I would like your opinion also.

What do you think of Eli Manning as a QB   ?

What do you think of Peyton Manning as a QB ?  Not the Peyton of the Broncos, but the Indy Peyton Manning .

Eli is a very good QB and Peyton is a top 3 all time IMO..

[Tinstar]

Thanks old friend. Now if you have paid attention over the years, you know I always have a motive.  How is it you call Curtis martin a compiler yet you say Peyton manning who lucked into 2 SB championships top 3 .

How is it that Eli who started his carrier in the NFL as an INT machine with below 50% completion percentage is a very good QB even thou he has continued this trend with an up and down carrier with the ints and the completion  percentage fluctuating from year to year ?

 

This is not a critique, just fishing for information .

[j4jets]

First off, kudos to @Savage69for even answering in this thread like a civilized poster. If someone called me out like this in public, I'd pretend that guy owes me $600 n make sure he walks away with a broken jaw 

Second, how did Manning "lucked" into 2 SBs? He had 5 season MVP awards. No one has come close to that. 

[The Troll]

In Manning's prime years, he was saddled with a "Hall of Fame" head coach that mismanaged the team come playoff time every single year. They also drafted terribly. It's not something I hold against Peyton. The Martin comparison is not an apt one. It was rare in any given season that Curtis was a top five RB. Was there ever a time when Peyton wasn't a top two QB?

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[j4jets]

9 minutes ago, The Troll said:

In Manning's prime years, he was saddled with a "Hall of Fame" head coach that mismanaged the team come playoff time every single year. They also drafted terribly. It's not something I hold against Peyton. The Martin comparison is not an apt one. It was rare in any given season that Curtis was a top five RB. Was there ever a time when Peyton wasn't a top two QB?

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Mostly agree but a top 5 wasn't rare for Curtis at all. 5 time pro bowler. Don't go simply by his rushing stats. He was a complete 3 down back that was as dangerous out of the backfield, catching over 40 balls every year except his first (30) and last year (24), and averaging nearly 50 catches a season. His 484 catches are more than what most WRs catch in their careers, which btw last longer than age 30. So no, he was always a top 3-5 even with Lamont on board. 

[The Troll]

Mostly agree but a top 5 wasn't rare for Curtis at all. 5 time pro bowler. Don't go simply by his rushing stats. He was a complete 3 down back that was as dangerous out of the backfield, catching over 40 balls every year except his first (30) and last year (24), and averaging nearly 50 catches a season. His 484 catches are more than what most WRs catch in their careers, which btw last longer than age 30. So no, he was always a top 3-5 even with Lamont on board. 

It's hard to say it wasn't about stats when stats are the reason he's in the Hall of Fame. He was a good player for a long time, but not great, IMO, and certainly not worthy of being called a RB version of Peyton Manning. He was more like the RB version of Phillip Rivers.

[ljr]

1 hour ago, The Troll said:

In Manning's prime years, he was saddled with a "Hall of Fame" head coach that mismanaged the team come playoff time every single year. They also drafted terribly. It's not something I hold against Peyton. The Martin comparison is not an apt one. It was rare in any given season that Curtis was a top five RB. Was there ever a time when Peyton wasn't a top two QB?

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Your final ? I'm sure you're still talking about in his prime ... Certainly last year he wasn't even top half

pre injury he was always right at the top with the cheater & Rodgers 

[The Troll]

Your final ? I'm sure you're still talking about in his prime ... Certainly last year he wasn't even top half

pre injury he was always right at the top with the cheater & Rodgers 

I was speaking of his prime, which lasted from about 1999 until the middle of the 2014 season.

[j4jets]

42 minutes ago, The Troll said:

It's hard to say it wasn't about stats when stats are the reason he's in the Hall of Fame. He was a good player for a long time, but not great, IMO, and certainly not worthy of being called a RB version of Peyton Manning. He was more like the RB version of Phillip Rivers.

Call it whatever you want but he was a workhorse n extremely durable until the last couple of years. The amount of carries he had, not sure if anyone comes close to that ever again. 3500+. Being the 4th leading rusher of all time with an average of 4.0 n hardly any runs of 40+ yards suggests he was very consistent n never relied on home runs to pad his stats. He's not the Peyton Manning of RBs but he also wasn't the inconsistent Phillip Rivers of RBs. 

[Irish Jet]

I think Martin is actually underrated among Jet fans but I struggle to think of any players who aren't. Keller maybe, the c*nt.

The comparison to Peyton Manning is laughable though as is saying he lucked into his titles.

[The Troll]

Call it whatever you want but he was a workhorse n extremely durable until the last couple of years. The amount of carries he had, not sure if anyone comes close to that ever again. 3500+. Being the 4th leading rusher of all time with an average of 4.0 n hardly any runs of 40+ yards suggests he was very consistent n never relied on home runs to pad his stats. He's not the Peyton Manning of RBs but he also wasn't the inconsistent Phillip Rivers of RBs. 

Rivers has also made five Pro Bowls. He's thrown for 4,000+ yards in every season since 2008 except for one. Four seasons of 30+ touchdowns. He had one season with an 82.4 rating and has otherwise never been below 88.6. It's not an insult to compare him to Martin. Rivers is actually pretty damn consistently good, but he isn't a great player. Which pretty much sums up how I feel about Curtis Martin.

[The Troll]

I think Martin is actually underrated among Jet fans but I struggle to think of any players who aren't. Keller maybe, the c*nt.

The comparison to Peyton Manning is laughable though as is saying he lucked into his titles.

Martin isn't even the most under-rated Jets player from that era, nor was he the best offensive player on his own team. Kevin Mawae was.

[Irish Jet]

2 hours ago, The Troll said:

Martin isn't even the most under-rated Jets player from that era, nor was he the best offensive player on his own team. Kevin Mawae was.

They can both be underrated. I think half the current roster is underrated by most on here. The same place where you hear that Wilkerson isn't an impact player who teams don't gameplan for. 

Martin was a very good back. Durability and longevity are attributes in themselves - Most RB's just drop off a cliff after a certain number of carries. He was never the most dynamic back but he locked down a position and played to a high level for years. I think he's deservedly in the HOF. 

[The Troll]

They can both be underrated. I think half the current roster is underrated by most on here. The same place where you hear that Wilkerson isn't an impact player who teams don't gameplan for. 

Martin was a very good back. Durability and longevity are attributes in themselves - Most RB's just drop off a cliff after a certain number of carries. He was never the most dynamic back but he locked down a position and played to a high level for years. I think he's deservedly in the HOF. 

By the standards of the HOF, he is most assuredly deserving. I don't agree with the standards, though. It should be reserved for only players that were absolutely dominant.

[Villain The Foe]

After reading all this im not sure if Curtis is an all-time great or if Phillip Rivers is trash. 

[neckdemon]

curtis martin was a great jet. he was steady and barely fumbled and was hardly ever hurt. people look down on him because he wasn't a barry sanders type talent......but the dude was a pretty good player. i don't get it when people hate on him. 

[Kleckineau]

7 hours ago, The Troll said:

In Manning's prime years, he was saddled with a "Hall of Fame" head coach that mismanaged the team come playoff time every single year. They also drafted terribly. It's not something I hold against Peyton. The Martin comparison is not an apt one. It was rare in any given season that Curtis was a top five RB. Was there ever a time when Peyton wasn't a top two QB?

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Yes and then there is this.

Peyton may possibly be the GOAT but with that comes the  paycheck that siphons off resources for which the rest of the team needs to be built and paid with.

Unless of course you are TB of the NEP and get paid under the table circumventing the cap.

If that were the case in Indy they may have gone to 8 or 9 Superbowls.

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Thanks old friend. Now if you have paid attention over the years, you know I always have a motive.

Really???? So, you didn't just start a thread just to ask that question and be done?

This is like an M. Night Shamalayan twist ending right here.

[Savage69]

9 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Thanks old friend. Now if you have paid attention over the years, you know I always have a motive.  How is it you call Curtis martin a compiler yet you say Peyton manning who lucked into 2 SB championships top 3 .

How is it that Eli who started his carrier in the NFL as an INT machine with below 50% completion percentage is a very good QB even thou he has continued this trend with an up and down carrier with the ints and the completion  percentage fluctuating from year to year ?

 

This is not a critique, just fishing for information .

Vinny compiled more yards and Td's then Joe Montana does that make him better?? BTW Cumar never made a All Decade team Terrell Davis did..

[Jolot]

This was really a back door way to compare Curtis Martin to Peyton Manning ? Lol

[nj meadowlands]

@Savage69 what do you think about Curtis Martin?  Greatest of all time or only top 3?

[Savage69]

4 minutes ago, Jolot said:

This was really a back door way to compare Curtis Martin to Peyton Manning ? Lol

Funny thing is if you look at most Jet RB records they are held by Thomas Jones,Freeman,Snell and even Boozer with td's to carry ratio.. Now lowest yardage in a AFCCG that's the compilers record to keep and cherish... Oh and he has the Jet record for most carries..

[Sperm Edwards]

38 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Funny thing is if you look at most Jet RB records they are held by Thomas Jones,Freeman,Snell and even Boozer with td's to carry ratio.. Now lowest yardage in a AFCCG that's the compilers record to keep and cherish... Oh and he has the Jet record for most carries..

Say you have a few year window for a SB run. Picking any player in his prime for each position, other than Jets fans or his own coaches, who have obvious emotional attachments to him, who is really picking Curtis Martin as their #1 RB? Almost nobody. 

For a HOF player who made it in primarily because of stat totals & longevity, 5-times in the pro bowl not a lot. Especially when he wasn't even deserving - he certainly didn't have great seasons - in at least one of them. Arguably 2.

Solid player - very solid - for a long time. But if I'm gunning for the SB in the next 3-4 years he's not at or near the top of my starting RB wish list.

[Tinstar]

1 hour ago, Jolot said:

This was really a back door way to compare Curtis Martin to Peyton Manning ? Lol

This has nothing to do with Manning or Martin .

Peyton manning has all the records and is a sure 1st ballot HOF .There might even change the rules and let him in early, lol .  Eli Manning is a conversation about the HOF, and he was more responsible for his team winning those SBs than Peyton was for his teams . 

Peyton had a stellar career at Tennessee but could never win the national championship .  Eli had a decent career at Ole Miss .   What would you say if I told you I always thought that Eli would have more SB wins than Peyton based on how I evaluated their college careers and how important both players were to their teams success ? 

[Warfish]

11 hours ago, j4jets said:

If someone called me out like this in public, I'd pretend that guy owes me $600 n make sure he walks away with a broken jaw 

Really?  Maybe the internet is the wrong place for you.  I hear they have space in the mental health ward.....

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, neckdemon said:

curtis martin was a great jet. he was steady and barely fumbled and was hardly ever hurt. people look down on him because he wasn't a barry sanders type talent......but the dude was a pretty good player. i don't get it when people hate on him. 

he didn't fumble much, but one of the most memorable Martin moments was his fumble in the home opener in 1999 that Vinny tried to recover and tore his ACL. 1999.  ugh.

[Jolot]

3 hours ago, Tinstar said:

This has nothing to do with Manning or Martin .

Peyton manning has all the records and is a sure 1st ballot HOF .There might even change the rules and let him in early, lol .  Eli Manning is a conversation about the HOF, and he was more responsible for his team winning those SBs than Peyton was for his teams . 

Peyton had a stellar career at Tennessee but could never win the national championship .  Eli had a decent career at Ole Miss .   What would you say if I told you I always thought that Eli would have more SB wins than Peyton based on how I evaluated their college careers and how important both players were to their teams success ? 

Tom Coughin , in his prime one of the most underrated coaches I remember .....Tony Dungy, the single most overrated coach In the history of professional sports .

[nyjunc]

22 minutes ago, Jolot said:

Tom Coughin , in his prime one of the most underrated coaches I remember .....Tony Dungy, the single most overrated coach In the history of professional sports .

stop it, stop it, stop it.  Coughlin is a good coach who belongs nowhere near the HOF, Dungy is worthy of the Hall.  his teams were consistently among the best, he didn't have SB caliber teams go 9-7/10-6 and get fired from 2 different jobs w/ long postseason-less streaks.

[nyjunc]

3 hours ago, Dcat said:

he didn't fumble much, but one of the most memorable Martin moments was his fumble in the home opener in 1999 that Vinny tried to recover and tore his ACL. 1999.  ugh.

I don't know if that was his fault but he had a knack for fumbling in playoff games including the '98 title game

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Sorry to call you out like this, but I have a question . I asked Sperm Edwards the same question, and I would like your opinion also.

What do you think of Eli Manning as a QB   ?

What do you think of Peyton Manning as a QB ?  Not the Peyton of the Broncos, but the Indy Peyton Manning .

Eli is a solid QB bu not close to a HOFer, Peyton is a top 10 all time great.  Now I'd rather have Eli as my QB in january but w/ Eli the chances aren't great of you getting to January.

[Jolot]

14 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

stop it, stop it, stop it.  Coughlin is a good coach who belongs nowhere near the HOF, Dungy is worthy of the Hall.  his teams were consistently among the best, he didn't have SB caliber teams go 9-7/10-6 and get fired from 2 different jobs w/ long postseason-less streaks.

Anyone who would take Dungy over Coughin in a big spot is out of their mind....nonsense talk .

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Jolot said:

Anyone who would take Dungy over Coughin in a big spot is out of their mind....nonsense talk .

the problem is you have to get to the big spot, Dungy's teams consistently got there while Coughlin's teams did not.    Your reasoning is like saying you'd rather have eli manning than Peyton manning.