Fanbase's reaction to a rebuild

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Doggin94it said:

Yes. But McDougal, saunders, evans, and essentially all the rest of the 12 were

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Well Amaro,still might have a chance somewhere else.

[munchmemory]

We put out a three or four win season and Mcc and Bowles might both be gone.

[rillo]

Jets have been rebuilding for 40+ years. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, munchmemory said:

We put out a three or four win season and Mcc and Bowles might both be gone.

They are winning at least 6 games this year. If not, injuries have become a problem

[JustInFudge]

26 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Without question.

No.  

[munchmemory]

2 minutes ago, rillo said:

Jets have been rebuilding for 40+ years. 

Albeit idiotically/quixotically.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

We put out a three or four win season and Mcc and Bowles might both be gone.

We probably will. They may or may not get fired, it doesn't really matter. Whenever this team exceeds expectations on an easy schedule and dumb luck (see: 2004, 2006, 2009, 2013, 2015) it sets off a chain reaction of stupid. If we had actually beaten Buffalo last year it would have been so much worse.

[joewilly12]

If this is a rebuild then we are doing it all wrong you dont sign a 34 year old loser QB to lead a rebuilding team. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

No.  

What's the alternative? That Maccagnan is too stupid to know that Harris can't play anymore, Cromartie couldn't in the first place, and Revis doesn't give a sh*t? In that case we're actually better off with the PR department calling the shots.

[nyjunc]

In case anyone hasn't notice we are rebuilding while remaining competitive.  Obviously the big piece will be a QB, the hope  is that Petty or hack can develop into that.  if they do we are in great shape, if not we won't be where we need to be until we find one.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Just now, nyjunc said:

In case anyone hasn't notice we are rebuilding while remaining competitive.

Doing neither isn't the same thing as doing both.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

In case anyone hasn't notice we are rebuilding while remaining competitive.  Obviously the big piece will be a QB, the hope  is that Petty or hack can develop into that.  if they do we are in great shape, if not we won't be where we need to be until we find one.

You dont rebuild with a 34 yr old QB and a 31 yr old RB 

[nyjets782]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Not universally

What Idzik was doing was a proper rebuild. He was fired because he sounded like a schmuck at a press conference. That was the disaster.

Hell no... he was fired because his drafts were an abortion.  You can't rebuild when you can't draft worth a damn!

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

You dont rebuild with a 34 yr old QB and a 31 yr old RB 

we signed/acquired some older guys to get competitive again while we retool around them.  Our young guys on the Ol are playing well, we have a ton of young WRs, the DL is young, we are rebuilding the LB corps.  Obviously the QB is the missing piece, we'll see what Petty/Hack can do soon enough.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Who gives a **** about fans?  Jesus man, you actually think they sit around asking each other how to handle the team based on the fan reaction.

Idzik lost his job because he was a ******* disaster. Not because some idiot flew a banner over a practice. 

False 

[dbatesman]

33 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Doing neither isn't the same thing as doing both.

Oof.

[RoadFan]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

This is why the Jets are where they are.

Pure and simple. You cant have a proper rebuild in NY. Idzik tried that and the fans wanted him out of there.

So Macc is trying (and doing a pretty good job) of trying to do both.

Stay in somewhat contention while getting this roster full of young talent. It is already working. 

This is why Ryan Fitzpatrick was resigned, he had the best year in Jets QB and the fans would boo Geno Smith the moment he stepped on the field (in fact they did in preseason)

Luckily, Macc signed him to a contract that wouldnt impeded progress.

The Jets will end up with 6 or 7 wins this year, and probably be the better for it.

 

This is a false statement .  A rebuild is acceptable to me, and i believe the fan base, IF the General Manager overseeing the process can actually evaluate talent.  Idzik would miss the nostril if he tried to pick his nose. 

In fact, I prefer a tanking rebuild to provide the opportunity to finally acquire a franchise QB at the top of the draft as opposed to this perpetual mediocrity year after year.

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

False 

They are at the mercy of the season ticket holder. Every team has to deal with this. We've just been really bad at offsetting this issue with a good QB.

Shelling out 20k or whatever it is for 8 Sundays to watch an offense not score touchdowns is a tough sell. I wish the fanbase were more patient but I do understand Woody's dilemma there.

Also crazy that Dolan is such a moron considering  people would show up to MSG if it were the New York School for the Deaf playing. He's got it easier.

[Big Blocker]

I disagree completely as to the comparison to Idzik.  He was fired because the roster declined in talent while he was the GM.  He inspired no confidence in his draft choices as well.

I also disagree completely with the implicit notion that winning is an attitude and approach you can turn off for some reason and then turn it on later, on cue. 

The other thing is, exactly what move made by the FO this off season PREVENTS the team from improving in the future?  Some might say not playing Petty now, but I disagree with that.  We have no reason to think he's even healthy enough to play right now.  If the Jets are out of it by Halloween, I do hope they try to get Petty in there, maybe even using Hack as the backup.  Yeah, seeing what they have in those two is something they need to do for the future.  But other than that, which is still down the road, what is the problem? 

[T0mShane]

19 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They are at the mercy of the season ticket holder. Every team has to deal with this. We've just been really bad at offsetting this issue with a good QB.

Shelling out 20k or whatever it is for 8 Sundays to watch an offense not score touchdowns is a tough sell. I wish the fanbase were more patient but I do understand Woody's dilemma there.

Also crazy that Dolan is such a moron considering  people would show up to MSG if it were the New York School for the Deaf playing. He's got it easier.

This is exactly right, imo. As brutal as Idzik's record was/is, he went primarily because he was unpopular with the fanbase, and because Woody didn't want to embarrass Rex on the way out the door. 

[phill1c]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is exactly right, imo. As brutal as Idzik's record was/is, he went primarily because he was unpopular with the fanbase, and because Woody didn't want to embarrass Rex on the way out the door. 

Really? I think he was removed because Woody recognized that his drafts (over the last decade) have sucked and Idzik couldn't fix that. I don't think the banners had anything to do with it because as soon as a season ticket holder decides not to renew, the next idiot on the waiting list would take his/her place.

I think Rex leaving was a foregone conclusion once they were 1-whatever and after several years of non-playoff seasons.

Banners actually recruit fans because any publicity is good publicity, especially for a losing team.

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

Who gives a **** about fans?  Jesus man, you actually think they sit around asking each other how to handle the team based on the fan reaction.

Idzik lost his job because he was a ******* disaster. Not because some idiot flew a banner over a practice. 

While good organization think like that..Woody Johnson as an owner runs this team with an eye toward PR as his top priority.  Football is secondary.  The problem starts with ownership.  If you've followed this team at all you know that to be the case.

[Bugg]

Problem is again as it has been since the day Hess died is the owner. Suspect Maccagnan might still be a good GM, and Bowles, while he hasn't lit the world on fire, may still be a real coach. Woody Johnson has a really big mortgage on this sheetheel AC unit of a stadium (as do the Giants). He went from selling out without even advertising to being close to blacked out. There are going to be a lot of empty seats and empty boxes this season again because there's zero chance of the Jets getting any home playoff games, and may be no playoffs at all. So instead of simply selling good winning football, you sell other shiny trinkets. 

The team has never sucked bad enough in the right year to get a franchise QB. So it's kind of stuck in the muddled middle;not bad enough to get That Guy, and not good enough to get past the Pats. So decisions get made less about football and more about marketing-Rex, Tebow, Fitz. Idzik frankly looked really bad at being a GM, too cautious, bad drafts. But he was stuck with a coach that needed firing. We'll never know what would have been had he gotten his coach on Day 1. And that is on Woody. And that's the usual; Woody half asses everything. And for some very weird reason he buys into tough guy defense first football gibberish at exactly the time in the NFL when the rules and the refs beg you to run a serious offense. And problem is defenses, even very good ones, fail a few times every game at least. Woody values defense which doesn't have as much value as he thinks. So here we are again with an HC who so far thinks he only has to worry about 1 side of the ball. I don't get it. If Woody wanted to make the splash, you blow away Jim Harbaugh or Bill Cowher, give that coach the keys  and cut the crap until you can get That Guy. Or at least ask said big time coach to do what he can to deal with this mess. 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Problem is again as it has been since the day Hess died is the owner. Suspect Maccagnan might still be a good GM, and Bowles, while he hasn't lit the world on fire, may still be a real coach. Woody Johnson has a really big mortgage on this sheetheel AC unit of a stadium (as do the Giants). He went from selling out without even advertising to being close to blacked out. There are going to be a lot of empty seats and empty boxes this season again because there's zero chance of the Jets getting any home playoff games, and may be no playoffs at all. So instead of simply selling good winning football, you sell other shiny trinkets. 

The team has never sucked bad enough in the right year to get a franchise QB. So it's kind of stuck in the muddled middle;not bad enough to get That Guy, and not good enough to get past the Pats. So decisions get made less about football and more about marketing-Rex, Tebow, Fitz. Idzik frankly looked really bad at being a GM, too cautious, bad drafts. But he was stuck with a coach that needed firing. We'll never know what would have been had he gotten his coach on Day 1. And that is on Woody. And that's the usual; Woody half asses everything. And for some very weird reason he buys into tough guy defense first football gibberish at exactly the time in the NFL when the rules and the refs beg you to run a serious offense. And problem is defenses, even very good ones, fail a few times every game at least. Woody values defense which doesn't have as much value as he thinks. So here we are again with an HC who so far thinks he only has to worry about 1 side of the ball. I don't get it. If Woody wanted to make the splash, you blow away Jim Harbaugh or Bill Cowher, give that coach the keys  and cut the crap until you can get That Guy. 

Owner isn't going away. 

[Bugg]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Owner isn't going away. 

I know., But I also know I gave up my tickets mid-Rex, and I'm hardly alone. It's bad enough from the time you get to the lot until they push you out like cattle, the stadium treats fans like criminals instead of customers. I can watch such crap from my couch rather than burning a whole day and a pile of cash. 

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Really? I think he was removed because Woody recognized that his drafts (over the last decade) have sucked and Idzik couldn't fix that. I don't think the banners had anything to do with it because as soon as a season ticket holder decides not to renew, the next idiot on the waiting list would take his/her place.

I think Rex leaving was a foregone conclusion once they were 1-whatever and after several years of non-playoff seasons.

Banners actually recruit fans because any publicity is good publicity, especially for a losing team.

This is what you're missing: Woody is a god forsaken moron that only understands filled seat v empty seat economics.

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is exactly right, imo. As brutal as Idzik's record was/is, he went primarily because he was unpopular with the fanbase, and because Woody didn't want to embarrass Rex on the way out the door. 

When you cant add talent and you're the GM, you lose your job.  And that's what happened.  

Dont try to make it more than it is to save your boo sauce. 

[phill1c]

Just now, Bugg said:

I know., But I also know I gave up my tickets mid-Rex, and I'm hardly alone. It's bad enough from the time you get to the lot until they push you out like cattle, the stadium treats fans like criminals instead of customers. I can watch such crap from my couch rather than burning a whole day and a pile of cash. 

lol, and someone is sitting in 'your' seat next week.

The stadium treats fans like criminals because they act like criminals. I went to a PRE-SEASON game and people were fighting in the stands as if the game meant something AND that they weren't ALL Jets fans. They throw ice-balls at players and fans. they sexually harass women. you name it, and the fans at NFL games do it.

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

While good organization think like that..Woody Johnson as an owner runs this team with an eye toward PR as his top priority.  Football is secondary.  The problem starts with ownership.  If you've followed this team at all you know that to be the case.

What has happened in the Mac tenure that was a PR move? 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

What has happened in the Mac tenure that was a PR move? 

You're joking.

[j4jets]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

This is why the Jets are where they are.

Pure and simple. You cant have a proper rebuild in NY. Idzik tried that and the fans wanted him out of there. 

Are you seriously going to defend Idzik?

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So Macc is trying (and doing a pretty good job) of trying to do both.

Stay in somewhat contention while getting this roster full of young talent. It is already working. 

This is why Ryan Fitzpatrick was resigned, he had the best year in Jets QB and the fans would boo Geno Smith the moment he stepped on the field (in fact they did in preseason)

Luckily, Macc signed him to a contract that wouldnt impeded progress.

The Jets will end up with 6 or 7 wins this year, and probably be the better for it.

Wait, we borrow $12mil from future cap years just to reach 6 or 7 wins? Interesting theory, except that bs. Rebuilds work totally the other way around. The way we are now, 2017 seems like a year we will be rebuilding in when we'll have no cap and QB. Whether you like it or not. Unless Fitz is benched and Petty comes in and plays well. 

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

This is what you're missing: Woody is a god forsaken moron that only understands filled seat v empty seat economics.

I wasn't missing that. I just don't believe he's a moron. And I believe that he realized that idzik and Rex were losers and jettisoned them.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

When you cant add talent and you're the GM, you lose your job.  And that's what happened.  

Dont try to make it more than it is to save your boo sauce. 

Remember when Buffalo was super talented and blowing our doors off by 30 on the reg? 

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

When you cant add talent and you're the GM, you lose your job.  And that's what happened.  

Dont try to make it more than it is to save your boo sauce. 

Or maybe, it's both.  Fans were fed up with Idzik, and Idzik blew back to back drafts.

[T0mShane]

Just now, phill1c said:

I wasn't missing that. I just don't believe he's a moron. And I believe that he realized that idzik and Rex were losers and jettisoned them.

No, no. He's a moron.