How the Jets Landed Christian Hackenberg - 2016 MMQB article

[thadude]

3 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Maybe instead of falling into what that was designed to do, you should consider the fact that the mentorship is more about the player doing the mentoring instead of the players who are mentored .

Someone asked what is a mentor QB .

Well I can't presume to tell anyone what the Jets feelings are on this subject, but my personal belief is that it's a person who can still do the job, but won't whine if he's not the lead dog and will be there for the young pups when they have the bad series or the horrific day

Geno is not that person.

Fitz is not that person

Cutler is not that person

Josh McCown has shown himself to be such a person .

gay

[thadude]

2 hours ago, August said:

Geno is 26 with enough youth and upside to still potentially be a starting quarterback, so why would he have to mentor a quarterback.

Fitzpatrick was brought in to be that guy, he seemed to have accepted that role at first. But then Geno got hurt and Fitzpatrick stepped in and played well, in year 2 when things unraveled based on his comments he's not interested in being a mentor.

Cutler still thinks he's a franchise quarterback so he's not that guy. 

I do agree that McCown fits the criteria for what we need. 

What we need is a new GM/HC 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, flgreen said:

No it didn't.  Here's what was actually said in camp last year.  At the time I didn't think it was very encouraging.

"Offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, who has made a career of fixing quarterbacks, believes it takes at least a year to change a passer's mechanics. The Jets are in no hurry to start that process; it may not happen until next offseason.

"You want to be careful," Patullo said. "He's got a lot [on his plate]. He's trying to learn the playbook, he's trying to learn defenses -- what he sees and how to react. ... I think he understands certain things he needs to work on. He's a hard-working kid."

Asked if Hackenberg needs a complete overhaul, Patullo said, "That's not something we're going to get into right now. We're just trying to see where he's at, what he knows.""

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/62440/jets-coach-on-christian-hackenberg-cant-change-golfers-swing-in-season

 

That article is from the end of August, not from when the team drafted him (which is the point I correctly pointed out as a false statement).

If you can find an article similar to this from the day he was drafted, or from anytime prior to rookie camp, then that would be something. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist.

[BRONX DUDE]

14 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

When the Jets made this pick, even those "experts" on TV that liked Hack said he probaly would need a couple of years of seasoning before being able to start.  Unfortunately most fans need instant gradification or they get upset.  No one on this Board has a clue how good or bad Hackenberg is. The Jets never wanted to play him last season and they stuck to that plan.  This season the most likely scenario is that McCown starts the season with a transition to Hackenberg at some point.

#suckforsam

[BurnleyJet]

10 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Christian Hackenberg must start before Jets GM Mike Maccagnan can use another premium pick on a quarterback

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Christian Hackenberg should start the season for Gang Green.

  (ED MULHOLLAND/GETTY IMAGES)

GARY MYERS

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Updated: Sunday, March 26, 2017, 2:13 PM

PHOENIX — If Jets GM Mike Maccagnan’s plan is to keep drafting quarterbacks until he gets it right, then somebody else needs to be picking the quarterbacks.

Maccagnan is attending his third NFL owners meetings since Charley Casserly recommended Woody Johnson hire his former assistant in Houston and he has the Jets going backward. He has gutted the roster in the offseason, which is usually done in the first year of the program, not the third year, but the real issue is he’s just the latest GM who can’t solve the quarterback problem.

Josh McCown is the expected starter to open the season. He has out-journeymanned Ryan Fitzpatrick eight teams to six. In his 15 years in the league, he is 18-42 as a starter.

Are the Jets even trying to get better long-term if they play McCown or is Todd Bowles just trying to save his job? McCown will be 38 years old in July and is more qualified to be the quarterback coach than the starting quarterback.

By signing McCown, Jets show they still have hope in Hackenberg

That’s why the Jets need to open the season with Christian Hackenberg. If he stinks, as most suspect, then let’s find out right away. If Maccagnan blew it with his second-round pick in 2016, then he must be held accountable. It’s not like he was a throwaway sixth-round pick.

Plenty of quarterbacks get taken after the first round and make it big: Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Drew Brees, Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, Tony Romo, Russell Wilson, Derek Carr.

Dak Prescott, an emerging star with the Cowboys, was taken two rounds after Hackenberg last year. New England’s Jimmy Garoppolo, a second-round pick, is the best quarterback not starting. Even though Hackenberg was not a high first-round pick, Maccagnan still drafted him with the expectation he would be a franchise quarterback.

 

Waiting until mid-October to start Hackenberg doesn’t give him the best chance to succeed. By then, the Jets season will basically be over, the morale in the locker room will be toxic, the first wave of injuries will have hit and the fans will already be fed up. If Bowles, with a nudge from Johnson overseas, puts the kid in on opening day, at least he will give him a fair shot before the season is lost. Most of these young guys start opening day their rookie year.

Jets source on QB Christian Hackenberg: ‘He will never make it'

McCown will be more useful to the Jets as an extra set of eyes and a sideline mentor to Hackenberg than anything he might provide on the field. Hackenberg was so bad in practice last year that the Jets didn’t want to ruin him by putting him on the field. The last we saw of him was in the final preseason game in Philadelphia when he was a dreadful 11-of-31 for 54 yards with an interception. Even as the Jets went from Ftiz to Geno to Fitz to Petty to Fitz, he didn’t get a uniform until the final game when he was the only healthy QB other than Fitzpatrick.

Maccagnan did not rule out taking a quarterback with the sixth overall pick in the April 27 draft. But Johnson should not let it happen. Maccagnan selected Bryce Petty in the fourth round of his first draft in 2015 and then picked Hackenberg even though his stock had dropped dramatically after he played poorly his last two years at Penn State. He just can’t keep taking quarterbacks.

Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan

  (MEL EVANS/AP)

If Maccagnan saw something in Hackenberg that convinced him he could play and be a potential franchise quarterback, then he must at least get on the field before the GM is allowed to use another premium pick in the first or second round on another quarterback.

He denied taking another QB would be a referendum on Hackenberg, but of course it would. How could it not?

If Christian Hackenberg doesn't pan out, blame Jets, not QB

“I don’t think taking a player at one position is a referendum on another player,” he said. “I think the goal is to always put together the best roster you can and, of course, the quarterback is a very, very important position in this process, but I wouldn’t necessarily view it as a referendum.”

Simply put, that’s absurd.

And what happens if the Jets take North Carolina’s Mitchell Trubisky, who started one year in college, and he is not impressive as a rookie, the Jets earn the first pick in 2018 and Maccagnan takes Southern Cal QB Sam Darnold? That’s not a referendum on Trubisky, either, I guess.

This is not a strong quarterback draft. Next year could produce a handful of potential franchise quarterbacks. Maccagnan must find out what he has in Hackenberg before he should be allowed to go quarterback shopping again.

Brandon Marshall can see Christian Hackenberg starting for Jets

It was his decision to take Hackenberg, so Maccagnan’s job performance will be based on his development. Johnson has generously given Maccagnan a do-over in his third year. He signed Darrelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie and traded for Brandon Marshall and Fitzpatrick soon after he arrived in 2015 The Jets won 10 games and nearly made the playoffs. He won executive of the year using all the cap space John Idzik left him. Then it all fell apart last season and the Jets finished 5-11.

Cromartie lasted one season and now Revis, Marshall and Fitz are gone along with long-time center Nick Mangold. Maccagnan wants to go with the kids and trade down in the draft and add lots of extra picks. It’s not a bad idea. But that’s the plan he should have had two years ago when he inherited a 4-12. Instead Maccagnan went for the competitive rebuild, which ultimately set the program back two years.

He’s got a lot at stake with Hackenberg. The Jets need to find out if he can play and whether Maccagnan knows how to pick quarterbacks.

I don't know about Hackenberg, more like Hack job.

[Tinstar]

10 hours ago, thadude said:

gay

Doesn't make you a bad person, just someone who thinks differently than I do . 

[sourceworx]

Remember when we passed on Teddy Bridgewater and Derek Carr because we already had Geno Smith?

Yeah, let's repeat that mistake.

[UnitedWhofans]

11 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It was reported at the time. Look it up yourself. Giants offered their pick for our 1st & 2nd but Maccagnan didn't want to give up chart value for the pick so he told them to piss off. We ended up with Lee and Hackenberg.

Now that's news to me. Where did you hear this? I know that the Jets contacted the Giants about trading, but no offers were made public. 

As for Lee, would you then say the 2nd round is better value for that type of player. Because the Falcons drafted Deion Jones in that spot. And I know the retort would probably be that the Falcons had more positions filled than the Jets do. But it goes back to my way of thinking. I view each team equally, within reason. If it's low value for one team, then it should be for another.

EDIT: Okay, Gary Myers reported that the Jets offered their 1st and 2nd round pick to the Giants. In addition the Giants wanted their 4th round pick. That's where the Jets balked.

So the Giants wanted 3 picks to move up and the Jets only offered 2.

So it's Tunsil vs. Lee, Hackenberg, and Burris. Burris adds an interesting element to this. 

[#27TheDominator]

On 3/26/2017 at 1:28 AM, David Harris said:

 

we really missed out....only an idiot would take a high upside QB instead of these gems

Is this sarcasm?  If it is, I will have to assume that you do you not watch football.  Evidently you didn't even bother with the super bowl cause the very next guy selected was all over the field. 

[Sperm Edwards]

22 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Now that's news to me. Where did you hear this? I know that the Jets contacted the Giants about trading, but no offers were made public. 

As for Lee, would you then say the 2nd round is better value for that type of player. Because the Falcons drafted Deion Jones in that spot. And I know the retort would probably be that the Falcons had more positions filled than the Jets do. But it goes back to my way of thinking. I view each team equally, within reason. If it's low value for one team, then it should be for another.

EDIT: Okay, Gary Myers reported that the Jets offered their 1st and 2nd round pick to the Giants. In addition the Giants wanted their 4th round pick. That's where the Jets balked.

So the Giants wanted 3 picks to move up and the Jets only offered 2.

So it's Tunsil vs. Lee, Hackenberg, and Burris. Burris adds an interesting element to this. 

Lol 

[whodeawhodat]

On 3/26/2017 at 1:41 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

We turned down a trade-up for Tunsil so we could draft a shrimpy, tweeting, mamas boy of an ILB plus Hackenberg. Then to make up for that we kept Giacomini last year, re-signed Ijalana this year, and guaranteed more than a yr of Beachum who wasn't good enough for the Jaguars.

Hackenberg had better be a damn good starting QB for years, and Lee a pro bowl ILB who suddenly fits a 3-4 base defense, to pass up on the best prospect in the draft. Particularly if he privately knew for certain he wasn't taking a QB in the 1st round anyway.

#triggered

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, whodeawhodat said:

#triggered

#tiggered

 

 

[jeremy2020]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

#tiggered

 

 

This is exactly how the Jets ended up with hackenberg

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, jeremy2020 said:

This is exactly how the Jets ended up with hackenberg

Even Houston - whose coach was surely the initial inspiration for seeing so much in Hackenberg - couldn't/didn't believe we'd take him in round 2. They were 1 pick behind us, and leapfrogged us to take a center. 

[UnitedWhofans]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Even Houston - whose coach was surely the initial inspiration for seeing so much in Hackenberg - couldn't/didn't believe we'd take him in round 2. They were 1 pick behind us, and leapfrogged us to take a center. 

Very true. Hackenberg was drafted way too early.

But wouldn't Sperm be under the logical belief that trading 3 draft picks for 1 seems a bit risky for a team with holes, regardless of who was actually picked?

 

[Bruce Harper]

On 3/26/2017 at 8:39 AM, Dcat said:

Kellen Clemens was the #51 pick 11 years ago (which the Jets traded up a little to get afgter having had traded down), yet we didn't hear all the bitching and whining as we do today over Hackenberg.   

 

In fact, I think we had an epic funny thread on Jets Insider where we swapped out his name for every Chuck Norris joke we could find.  Anyone else remember that?

[C Mart]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Very true. Hackenberg was drafted way too early.

But wouldn't Sperm be under the logical belief that trading 3 draft picks for 1 seems a bit risky for a team with holes, regardless of who was actually picked?

 

This is such BS..None of us know what the other 31 draft boards looked like.

NE took a QB late round 3..Who is to say they wouldn't have taken him Round 2 or the Bears, Saints...Or maybe Dallas/Cleveland/SF/NYG top of round 3

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, C Mart said:

This is such BS..None of us know what the other 31 draft boards looked like.

NE took a QB late round 3..Who is to say they wouldn't have taken him Round 2 or the Bears, Saints...Or maybe Dallas/Cleveland/SF/NYG top of round 3

Man, I'm a Macc supporter. He was drafted too early.

[C Mart]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Man, I'm a Macc supporter. He was drafted too early.

Based on your analysis

[Scott Dierking]

32 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Even Houston - whose coach was surely the initial inspiration for seeing so much in Hackenberg - couldn't/didn't believe we'd take him in round 2. They were 1 pick behind us, and leapfrogged us to take a center. 

You sometimes create your own narratives on what people (teams) re thinking, to support your own agenda.

Do you have confirmation that the Texans were afraid the jets were going to take the center, and thus moved in front of them in order to take that player?

Or, is that speculation on your part?

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You sometimes create your own narratives on what people (teams) re thinking, to support your own agenda.

Do you have confirmation that the Texans were afraid the jets were going to take the center, and thus moved in front of them in order to take that player?

Or, is that speculation on your part?

They were one pick behind us and jumped to one pick ahead of us. They took a center. 

[C Mart]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You sometimes create your own narratives on what people (teams) re thinking, to support your own agenda.

Do you have confirmation that the Texans were afraid the jets were going to take the center, and thus moved in front of them in order to take that player?

Or, is that speculation on your part?

It doesn't even have to be the Jets. If there were rumors Jets were looking to trade back perhaps Houston was afraid the team moving up to 51 would take a Center..None of us know..

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You sometimes create your own narratives on what people (teams) re thinking, to support your own agenda.

Do you have confirmation that the Texans were afraid the jets were going to take the center, and thus moved in front of them in order to take that player?

Or, is that speculation on your part?

 

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They were one pick behind us and jumped to one pick ahead of us. They took a center. 

Exactly.  The fear that O'Brien wanted Hackenberg was palpable.  Of course the Texans wouldn't have another pick until after the Jets 3rd, so why not wait?  There is a pretty good chance the Jets did want the center based upon what I was reading at the time. 

[Sperm Edwards]

19 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Very true. Hackenberg was drafted way too early.

But wouldn't Sperm be under the logical belief that trading 3 draft picks for 1 seems a bit risky for a team with holes, regardless of who was actually picked?

 

There is no shortage of ways to recoup a bottom-half 4th round pick (including trading down this year). Burris hopefully becomes a regular starter, but let's see him go 2-3 games in a row without getting beaten deep before we start stroking the selection. 

My point is that, if additional picks is such a no-brainer for a team while they're acting as though they're contenders (2016), it's difficult to then justify a failure to trade down (unless taking a $15-25m/yr salary player with the lone, higher pick) a year later when they're in obvious tear-down/rebuild mode with such multiple needed-upgrades and outright holes. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There is no shortage of ways to recoup a bottom-half 4th round pick (including trading down this year). Burris hopefully becomes a regular starter, but let's see him go 2-3 games in a row without getting beaten deep before we start stroking the selection. 

My point is that, if additional picks is such a no-brainer for a team while they're acting as though they're contenders (2016), it's difficult to then justify a failure to trade down (unless taking a $15-25m/yr salary player with the lone, higher pick) a year later when they're in obvious tear-down/rebuild mode with such multiple needed-upgrades and outright holes. 

Well, I guess that's why Macc is basically advertising a trade down this year.

[Scott Dierking]

46 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They were one pick behind us and jumped to one pick ahead of us. They took a center. 

That does not mean that the Texans were not afraid that someone else was going to go in font of the Jets spot, and pick that center. it also does not mean that they did not feel the Jets were going to trade their pic, and pick the center in front of them.

You can't carelessly surmise that.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

That does not mean that the Texans were not afraid that someone else was going to go in font of the Jets spot, and pick that center. it also does not mean that they did not feel the Jets were going to trade their pic, and pick the center in front of them.

You can't carelessly surmise that.

If they surrendered a 4th then that is a more reasonable assumption, as they'd be outbidding someone else for the move-up. As it turns out they gave up a (low) 6th round pick. Meh.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If they surrendered a 4th then that is a more reasonable assumption, as they'd be outbidding someone else for the move-up. As it turns out they gave up a (low) 6th round pick. Meh.

More conjecture. 

Meh.

[thebuzzardman]

On 3/25/2017 at 7:45 PM, flgreen said:

"Hackenberg was in his backyard playing a game of cornhole with his private quarterback coach Jordan Palmer"

Geez, ya wouldn't think they'd want to talk about that.     Yeah I guess there's a lot of change going on

They were playing cornhole as Jet fans were about to be cornholed. Good symmetry. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

More conjecture. 

Meh.

So ok then, until the next time I type something about Hackenberg's draft slot.  

[Scott Dierking]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So ok then, until the next time I type something about Hackenberg's draft slot.  

It's not about the draft slot, it is about you conjecturing, without any knowledge, as to what the team was thinking.

That is not a fair exercise, as you don't have the details

[David Harris]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Is this sarcasm?  If it is, I will have to assume that you do you not watch football.  Evidently you didn't even bother with the super bowl cause the very next guy selected was all over the field. 

Not sarcasm. Deon Jones could've been SP MVP had they won. There are close to 20 high draft picks listed, there will be some good players and contributors. But a lot of whatever guys as well. My point was a possible franchise QB wasn't a stretch there considering the options, even if he fails his franchise changing potential is a decent gamble at #51

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Not sarcasm. Deon Jones could've been SP MVP had they won. There are close to 20 high draft picks listed, there will be some good players and contributors. But a lot of whatever guys as well. My point was a possible franchise QB wasn't a stretch there considering the options, even if he fails his franchise changing potential is a decent gamble at #51

That is because you are characterizing him as a "possible franchise QB."  He seems much more like Tajh Boyd 2.0.   What makes him a "possible franchise QB?"  HIs college career?  I don't think so.  There were people that gave him an undraftable grade.  One of his big positives was experience running a pro offense as opposed to these one read, all shotgun/pistol QBs.  That should have given him a leg up in camp, not a mandatory red-shirt season.  Never mind that his freshman year was barely better than his miserable senior campaign.  

[David Harris]

13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is because you are characterizing him as a "possible franchise QB."  He seems much more like Tajh Boyd 2.0.   What makes him a "possible franchise QB?"  HIs college career?  I don't think so.  There were people that gave him an undraftable grade.  One of his big positives was experience running a pro offense as opposed to these one read, all shotgun/pistol QBs.  That should have given him a leg up in camp, not a mandatory red-shirt season.  Never mind that his freshman year was barely better than his miserable senior campaign.  

The Jets characterized him that when they drafted him.  As the Rams did Jarred Goff at #1.

if you think there's a chance you take the QB at #51 overall.

[dbatesman]

3 minutes ago, David Harris said:

The Jets characterized him that when they drafted him.  As the Rams did Jarred Goff at #1.

The Jets and Rams: two franchises known for good quarterbackin'