Rex Ryan says Schottenheimer's offense was too complex

[Smashmouth]

He wasn't a legit MVP candidate with the '08 Jets for 11 games?

no he was not..... he was having a good year, but it was not an MVP type year

[afosomf]

Schotty will have Bradford and Clemens playing at an elite level. Look what hid did for Brees and Rivers. The guy is an excellent coach just ask him.

Cam Cameron was OC for Chargers, look at all the flack Joe Flacco is gettin now with Cam as his OC, funny how Schott gets blamed for everything, I blamed schott last night for having awful gas.

[Smashmouth]

Gannon was and i spoke with him too, same answer sanchez has 6 brainfarts a week. Jim Miller is very familiar with cavanaugh and he knows jets offense.

R U tellin me Miller is an idiot and u know more than him as well, get your resume ready for tanny dude

I never said Miller was an idiot and i never said I knew more than he did I just dont listen to his show so im not familar with him so dont jump to conclusions.

Gannon however I can not stand and I do think is a complete idiot.

[SMC]

Schotty's playbook is not complicated, it is designed to give the Qb clues to defensive reads. Call up Jim Miller on NFL radio if you do not believe me.

sanchez is a mental midget,

Sanchez could be a mental midget, but LOL at the notion of whether a playbook is complicated based on presnap motion.

Complexity can be attributed to play design, routes, protection, etc. A QB could be able to read a defense, but he may be unsure where his own receivers would be on a given play.

[afosomf]

Tanny is about as good as evaluating talent as Bob Kraft is, i remember Krafty went on a scouting trip on tebucky jones, that was the beginning of the end for parcells in NE

[afosomf]

Sanchez could be a mental midget, but LOL at the notion of whether a playbook is complicated based on presnap motion.

Complexity can be attributed to play design, routes, protection, etc. A QB could be able to read a defense, but he may be unsure where his own receivers would be on a given play.

Everyone i have spoke with, had nothing but admiration for Schott. We as fans really have no clue what is going on.

Good example, GIlbride was being crucified by Gint fans for passing on 1st down after sanchez fumble in endzone. The pass was also directed at Revis and was picked by Harris. Giving jets new life. Turns out Eli audibled from run to pass and it wasnt on gilbride.

Let's see how Schott does in STL before anyone can judge him, Rex admits he knows sh*t about Offense.

[Sperm Edwards]

ahh so your saying talent has something to do with it ?? Yet you blame Sanchez for starting the season with a Moron in Santonio , a 34 year old Plax fresh out of jail 38 year old Derrick Mason who grabbed a pay check a 32 year old LT who was hurt a lot in the middle of the season and no other real RB able to catch a pass consistently ?? This is all ok but Brees didnt have the talent in SD early on ?? Really ?

Sanchez has more receiving targets now than Brees had in SD. Stop. Other way around you'd be harping on how we only have undrafted Antonio Gates where Brees had a true playmaker in 1st round pick Dustin Keller (who you purposely left out of your list).

And compound that with Brees doing - per pass attempt - about the same in his past couple of years in SD that he did in his first years in NO. He just threw more passes in NO than he did in SD. Throw in that he also got a little better which everyone does.

Sanchez is a bad QB.

He'd still be a bad QB if his receiving targets were a 2nd year Antonio Gates plus Eric Parker plus less than half a season of 34 year-old Keenan McCardell (new arrival) and half a season starting with special-teams ace Kasim Osgood plus 6 games of Reche Caldwell starting. That, plus LT was putting up less than 3 yards per carry in about half his games that season. And Brees was a pro bowl QB with that mess. Sanchez would have sh*t his diaper weekly with a WR-corps of built in excuses for his ineptitude.

You it-isn't-Sanchez's-fault-he-sucks'ers should really stop comparing him to the game's best QB's. It's silly.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yep, His first three years were excellent

So now a year of holding a clipboard the same experience as a year of starting 17 games? I think not. His 3rd year he was a star QB.

Sanchez will never be very good, let alone great. His upside for a full season of starting is being slightly below average.

[Smashmouth]

Sanchez has more receiving targets now than Brees had in SD. Stop. Other way around you'd be harping on how we only have undrafted Antonio Gates where Brees had a true playmaker in 1st round pick Dustin Keller (who you purposely left out of your list).

And compound that with Brees doing - per pass attempt - about the same in his past couple of years in SD that he did in his first years in NO. He just threw more passes in NO than he did in SD. Throw in that he also got a little better which everyone does.

Sanchez is a bad QB.

He'd still be a bad QB if his receiving targets were a 2nd year Antonio Gates plus Eric Parker plus less than half a season of 34 year-old Keenan McCardell (new arrival) and half a season starting with special-teams ace Kasim Osgood plus 6 games of Reche Caldwell starting. That, plus LT was putting up less than 3 yards per carry in about half his games that season. And Brees was a pro bowl QB with that mess. Sanchez would have sh*t his diaper weekly with a WR-corps of built in excuses for his ineptitude.

You it-isn't-Sanchez's-fault-he-sucks'ers should really stop comparing him to the game's best QB's. It's silly.

Did I compare him to Brees in this thread ? Once ?

When you have 2 HOF players in Gates and Tomlinson you dont think those guys open things up on the outside a bit ? You dont think the defense has to account for that ? Who scares any one in the Jets backfield to keep defenses from making it very hard to throw the football ?? Especially when we were only running the ball for 90 yards a game halfway through the season ?? Not ONE thing you can bring up about this offense that was QB positive this year.... NOT ONE. Our Oline sucked in both pass protection and running the ball and our WR's were old and spent. No wonder a young guy Like Kerley was making some plays he worked hard and played well. Santonio is obviously NOT a number 1 Wideout who can deal with Double teams but thats Sanchez fault too. if you just want to blame everything on the QB its not worth debating further sperm

[NJ]

that's been my fear, shotty will run a smokin offense somewhere else, and sanchez will just keep sucking

sleep easy on the first one.... grab some Ambien for the other ...

[ZachEY]

All legit points EY I do think your point about progressions and smarter decisions with the ball brought out the worst in Sanchez this season. When we hear people bring up the type of offense run, and players not having to think so much in a complecated offense, I think thats one of the factors that hurts Sanchez developement. He seemed to start off really good the first few games of his career then go into a slump when the Jets tried to do too much. Have we been on that type of roller coaster ride ever since ?? probably so. The good games are there, which shows he can get it done, then come the bad games.

We have also seen Sanchez do well in the hurry up when he does not have to think as much but we never seemed to fully exploit that positive play. Maybe we learn a lot more about Sanchez with the changes in the coaching staff. If the same tendencies continue to show themselves thats when we will have to seriously question weather hes the right guy but I think we have to at least give him that chance and I think many of us are willing to give him another year and possibly more if we see positive results

About progressions and reads I think when a QB's protection breaks down as bad as it did this season thats a QB killer, especally a young QB. So first things first his confidence in protection needs to come back by us solidifying the O-line . Getting hammered does cause bad habits and can really stunt the growth of a young QB.

Most QB's that make it to the NFL level including the ones that suck beyond belief have been superstars their entire lives they never get hit and they are always above the curve then the reality of the NFL sets in. If Sanchez can get stronger mentally the tools are there, and when I say mentally I dont mean hes stupid I mean can he focus on the very things you bring up without worrying about getting killed. Again I think we will find out this year but he cant be in this alone this team has to get better on offense and all the rumors and crap we are hearing need tro stop as well.

The kid basicly needs to get tough IMO

If this is about the first few games of his career, I think you need to remember that in the 1st few games, no one had any NFL tape on him. Remember how defenses changed in response to Pennington after the Raiders playoff game? It's essentially the same thing. I think it's wishful thinking to look back at his 1st 3 games, none of which by the way were world beater performances, and expect him to build off of that and not his larger body of work. At this point, element of surprise has just as much to do with that, along with the emotion we all had thinking we'd gotten a winner. I don't see much of a roller coaster though. The team has been successful, but rarely behind great QB performances. I see a lot of bad QB play, with a few okay games from time to time, and a sporadic great throw mixed in.

As for the hurry up... That is a completely emotion based argument. First off, we know defenses often sit back, playing prevent and losing. We've seen our own defense do it. Second, and more importantly, Mark Sanchez has a lot of failed comeback drives as well. They're just not remembered the way the wins are. But, there are plenty of times when he's had the ball in his hand in the 4th Q and done nothing with it.

As for progressions and reads, he's never done it well. This season may have been harder, but even when he did have time to throw, he didn't do this well. Don't make the mistake of thinking Sanchez was under pressure on every drop-back. He was not. He still struggled then too.

I do agree that he's a pampered baby that doesn't handle adversity well. On point there.

[Smashmouth]

EY when it comes to the first 3 games i was using them to make a point of the ups and downs

[Sperm Edwards]

Did I compare him to Brees in this thread ? Once ?

When you have 2 HOF players in Gates and Tomlinson you dont think those guys open things up on the outside a bit ? You dont think the defense has to account for that ? Who scares any one in the Jets backfield to keep defenses from making it very hard to throw the football ?? Especially when we were only running the ball for 90 yards a game halfway through the season ?? Not ONE thing you can bring up about this offense that was QB positive this year.... NOT ONE. Our Oline sucked in both pass protection and running the ball and our WR's were old and spent. No wonder a young guy Like Kerley was making some plays he worked hard and played well. Santonio is obviously NOT a number 1 Wideout who can deal with Double teams but thats Sanchez fault too. if you just want to blame everything on the QB its not worth debating further sperm

You casually gloss over the production these guys (like Gates) get with competent QB's and assume they would be nearly as much of a "threat" with Sanchez.

Not one thing positive?

First round TE that half the teams would love to have.

Superbowl MVP who is a douchebag but he was a douchebag before he got linked to Sanchez yet still had over 1200 yards plus that historic SB catch.

Another receiver who, while not what he once was, is still a formidable red zone threat.

LT was no less productive of a receiver out of the backfield than he was back in 2004.

Our OL sucked in both pass and run blocking yet in terms of ypc our terrible RB managed 4.2 ypc.

They don't seem like positives because Sanchez is the QB. People would cite them as positives if we had a better QB, as you already just praised the overall receiving ability of the 2004 Chargers who didn't have one WR anyone here would want on the Jets.

There is no absolving someone for doing to his receivers what Sanchez does. None of them have any idea where on their body the ball's going to be thrown, and that includes fastballs from point-blank range. That doesn't make their laziness our douchebaggery acceptable, but all of our veteran WRs I'm sure were more miserable than normal with him throwing to them.

I don't blame everything on anyone, and certainly not all on Sanchez, as there were multiple issues with the team. But Sanchez is the #1 worst thing about our offense. He was a bigger problem than Hunter, turd that Hunter was. Bad pass blocking always ends up being far worse when the QB has no awareness.

He's inaccurate, stupid, careless, blind, and is an emo wuss.

[Smashmouth]

Sorry Sperm but I think your a bit extreme when discussing Sanchez.

And the only reason I got into the talent level with the San Diego Chargers was because only 2 guys were mentioned in order to make the arguement look better..... I had to mention that LT and Gates were on that team as well one ctaching 50 + balls and the other catching 81 pretty convienent to just leave those guys out when discussing what Brees had to work with back in his first 4 years. It had nothing at all from my perspective to do with Mark Sanchez but you said it did .

Lets see what the Jets and the new coaching staff on offense do both talent wise and coaching

[SMC]

Everyone i have spoke with, had nothing but admiration for Schott. We as fans really have no clue what is going on.

Good example, GIlbride was being crucified by Gint fans for passing on 1st down after sanchez fumble in endzone. The pass was also directed at Revis and was picked by Harris. Giving jets new life. Turns out Eli audibled from run to pass and it wasnt on gilbride.

Let's see how Schott does in STL before anyone can judge him, Rex admits he knows sh*t about Offense.

I guess 6 years of ineptitude peaking at mediocrity hasnt been enough for some people. The 5th time's the charm, is that it?

If Schitty's name was Smith he'd been at best a position coach in NFL.

[afosomf]

I guess 6 years of ineptitude peaking at mediocrity hasnt been enough for some people. The 5th time's the charm, is that it?

If Schitty's name was Smith he'd been at best a position coach in NFL.

Schitty was 1/2 away from a SB vs Indy, had fragile Greene not gotten hurt who knows. Schott gets blamed for everything and gets zero credit

I think being under a good coach like Fisher will help him. I still maintain rex is clueless as a HC

[jack48]

I want new safeties. Smith just is not any good. Leonard is too small. I know everybody likes the little guy overachiever. That is fine for a scatback, or a slot receiver, whose job is to get away from bigger guys with their quickness. But when your responsiblity is to physically engage the opposition, and that opposition is always much bigger and sometimes faster than you--then Houston, we have a problem. Jets FO----keep the inspirational players to a minimum, and let them return punts only. I still want to draft a pass rusher first round. I have for the past three drafts. I used to want a real WR in the second but I would go safety this year, and sign a veteran as well. When the Jets drafted another corner last year with the claim that you can never have enough cornerbacks, I remember thinking: "But you can have too few pass-rushers, and young wideouts?" They drafted Ducasse, so they were at least trying for O line depth, but they drafted someone who could not give them depth for years. So bad plan as well as bad scouting. I only assume Tanny calls the draft shots. Rex's lust for CBs makes me suspect otherwise.

[Gen X Jet]

Only a cerebral mind like Chaddy can run a Shoddy-O.. oh wait.

[GREENBEAN]

Gotta love it. Everyone wanted Schotty gone. He was stunting Mark's growth. Whether it was system, coaching, development, all Schotty. Now's he gone, we have a new OC who is going to simplify things and Rex basically confirms that it was the system but thats not good enough. Too funny.

I was just thinking the same thing. It almost seems, by this thread, that we were all desperate to keep Schotty and are love sick now that he's gone. This is insane.

Whatever it is, we made a big move in changing something that wasn't working. We are talking about making a system that Sanchez can hopefully be a better fit. This is bad news? I don't get it. I really don't

[ZachEY]

EY when it comes to the first 3 games i was using them to make a point of the ups and downs

I understand your point. I'm saying it's a poor one. As, the first three games of anyone's career are not a barometer of anything.

Peyton Manning had 1 TD in his first 3 games. Should that be a part of an evaluation of him as a player?

Mark Sanchez has 3 years of work now. He has some playoff wins, but he has few if any great performances. What he did in his first three games is not part of an 'up and down', it's simply not relevant.

[SenorGato]

So you're saying that because Minnesota adjusted their offense to better match their QBs strengths, his production increased to the point where he was nearly the MVP? Interesting.

So I assume the following are non-factors:

- Health

- Location (Same division, better home field conditions for a 40 year old)

- A somehow weaker scheudle than the 2008 Jets' (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11994481)

- Some guy named Adrian Peterson

Also, I thought Schottenheimer took alot of crap here for being forced by Favre to change the offense? Now he didn't do it? Or the Vikings just adjusted more and/or better? Must have been some very special and specific adjustments required. Wonder why they've had so much trouble with QBs since given all this knowledge they had of what kind of playcalls, plans, and designs it takes to get an MVP caliber performance from a QB...Did they fire the guy who OC'd for Favre? Por que?

[stoicsentry]

I understand your point. I'm saying it's a poor one. As, the first three games of anyone's career are not a barometer of anything.

Peyton Manning had 1 TD in his first 3 games. Should that be a part of an evaluation of him as a player?

Mark Sanchez has 3 years of work now. He has some playoff wins, but he has few if any great performances. What he did in his first three games is not part of an 'up and down', it's simply not relevant.

I hardly want to join any side of an argument that has to prop up Mark Sanchez as a franchise QB. That said, I do notice the following positives:

1. 3 of his top 5 games (yardage) were in 2011.

2. 3 of his top 5 games (completion percentage) were in 2011.

3. Though it was a poor game overall, he put up his first 4 TD performance in 2011.

4. He had his career high in rushing TD's in 2011 with 6, matching the total from the previous two years combined.

5. He has 6 career games with 3 INT's or more, only 1 of those in 2011.

6. 2011 was his best TD/INT ratio

7. 2011 was his best overall yardage

8. 2011 was his highest TD% by far.

9. 2011 was his highest QBR.

10. PFR gives him 4 comeback wins this year, which is pretty good all things considered.

There's a lot of nuances to look at, as with any QB. YPA was down by 0.1 One of the biggest issues he dealt with was the fumbles. He also took a ton of extra sacks.

But the one thing that stands out to me more than anything is how much the rest of the offense regressed. It's not as if Sanchez was consistently underthrowing a wide open Holmes, Holmes hardly ever got open. I like Greene but he is not now and will never be a feature back, and I'm more and more skeptical of the idea of the "plug and play RB." Though from a cost/value analysis that may be correct, we have now tried three 2nd day backs (Greene, McKnight and Powell) and none of them are doing what they're suppoed to. Obviously RT was a revolving door, and Ferguson had a weak year.

I'm not making Sanchez out to be anythign he's not. He's not a top 10 or even 15 QB right now. But with all this considered, I don't see why some people cling to the argument that he regressed this year - he didn't. In fact, he played ever-so-slightly better and he did so while the offense around him had deteriorated. The knock on Sanchez should not be that he has regressed (he has progressed every year), but rather, that he has not progressed at the predicted rate.

[SenorGato]

I hardly want to join any side of an argument that has to prop up Mark Sanchez as a franchise QB. That said, I do notice the following positives:

1. 3 of his top 5 games (yardage) were in 2011.

2. 3 of his top 5 games (completion percentage) were in 2011.

3. Though it was a poor game overall, he put up his first 4 TD performance in 2011.

4. He had his career high in rushing TD's in 2011 with 6, matching the total from the previous two years combined.

5. He has 6 career games with 3 INT's or more, only 1 of those in 2011.

6. 2011 was his best TD/INT ratio

7. 2011 was his best overall yardage

8. 2011 was his highest TD% by far.

9. 2011 was his highest QBR.

10. PFR gives him 4 comeback wins this year, which is pretty good all things considered.

There's a lot of nuances to look at, as with any QB. YPA was down by 0.1 One of the biggest issues he dealt with was the fumbles. He also took a ton of extra sacks.

But the one thing that stands out to me more than anything is how much the rest of the offense regressed. It's not as if Sanchez was consistently underthrowing a wide open Holmes, Holmes hardly ever got open. I like Greene but he is not now and will never be a feature back, and I'm more and more skeptical of the idea of the "plug and play RB." Though from a cost/value analysis that may be correct, we have now tried three 2nd day backs (Greene, McKnight and Powell) and none of them are doing what they're suppoed to. Obviously RT was a revolving door, and Ferguson had a weak year.

I'm not making Sanchez out to be anythign he's not. He's not a top 10 or even 15 QB right now. But with all this considered, I don't see why some people cling to the argument that he regressed this year - he didn't. In fact, he played ever-so-slightly better and he did so while the offense around him had deteriorated. The knock on Sanchez should not be that he has regressed (he has progressed every year), but rather, that he has not progressed at the predicted rate.

All perfectly true, and it explains why I am not completely down on him. That said, someone (CTM IIRC) suggested that his TD numbers were inflated due to them passing more in the red zone with Burress on the roster, so part of his statline was manufactured. That would be fine, but he combined it with many moments where he underthrew guys, took long distance sacks, stared down his WRs, completely misreads a D, and threw stupid INTs. Not to mention he gave away a crap ton of points with those picks, even if that is a little bit of bad luck.

Completely agree on the RB issue. If the idea is to be a running team (aka a hide the QB team) then some stability needs to come to that unit. Greene was basically the only guy taking carries last year, and it's not because he's a workhorse. I like Lamar Miller in the draft a whole lot.

[Sharrow]

Gannon was and i spoke with him too, same answer sanchez has 6 brainfarts a week. Jim Miller is very familiar with cavanaugh and he knows jets offense.

R U tellin me Miller is an idiot and u know more than him as well, get your resume ready for tanny dude

I never said Miller was an idiot and i never said I knew more than he did I just dont listen to his show so im not familar with him so dont jump to conclusions.

Gannon however I can not stand and I do think is a complete idiot.

Jim Miller is an idiot.

So is Gannon.

So is Schotty.

So is Sanchez.

[T0mShane]

So I assume the following are non-factors:

- Health

- Location (Same division, better home field conditions for a 40 year old)

- A somehow weaker scheudle than the 2008 Jets' (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11994481)

- Some guy named Adrian Peterson

Also, I thought Schottenheimer took alot of crap here for being forced by Favre to change the offense? Now he didn't do it? Or the Vikings just adjusted more and/or better? Must have been some very special and specific adjustments required. Wonder why they've had so much trouble with QBs since given all this knowledge they had of what kind of playcalls, plans, and designs it takes to get an MVP caliber performance from a QB...Did they fire the guy who OC'd for Favre? Por que?

And Bernard Berrian, bro!

Favre eliminated the pre-snap motion, allegedly. Bottom line, the Favre year was the only one in which Schottenheimer looked anything more than inept. So, there you go, it took having a HOF QB to come in here and prop up Schotty's offense to the point where it was better than mediocre.

But, guess what? The Jets don't have a HOF QB. If you want to give him a pass because of that fact, cool. But, he had a hand in picking two young QBs and he never found a way to make it work with either of them, and you could justifiably fire him (and the GM) based on that fact alone. (And, you don't draft Clemens in the second round because you want him to be a career backup.) Schottenheimer was a failure here. He sucked. That's it. He's gone and he should have been gone three years ago when Mangini got the wack.

[afosomf]

And Bernard Berrian, bro!

Favre eliminated the pre-snap motion, allegedly. Bottom line, the Favre year was the only one in which Schottenheimer looked anything more than inept. So, there you go, it took having a HOF QB to come in here and prop up Schotty's offense to the point where it was better than mediocre.

But, guess what? The Jets don't have a HOF QB. If you want to give him a pass because of that fact, cool. But, he had a hand in picking two young QBs and he never found a way to make it work with either of them, and you could justifiably fire him (and the GM) based on that fact alone. (And, you don't draft Clemens in the second round because you want him to be a career backup.) Schottenheimer was a failure here. He sucked. That's it. He's gone and he should have been gone three years ago when Mangini got the wack.

Wow Schott should be blamed for Ghost busting too and the Bowling Ball with a jackknife

just dont be blaming 2012 on schott... Soprano and his wiseguys have all offseason to work with the model.

[T0mShane]

Wow Schott should be blamed for Ghost busting too and the Bowling Ball with a jackknife

just dont be blaming 2012 on schott... Soprano and his wiseguys have all offseason to work with the model.

I am equally certain that both Sparano and Schottenheimer will fail miserably next season.

[afosomf]

I am equally certain that both Sparano and Schottenheimer will fail miserably next season.

So if schott fixes STL offense, and Bradford does he get any credit? or will it all go to Fisher?

[T0mShane]

So if schott fixes STL offense, and Bradford does he get any credit? or will it all go to Fisher?

This is what I don't get--why, after six years of watching this guy, do you think he's all-of-a-sudden going to be better than he was?

[Smashmouth]

I understand your point. I'm saying it's a poor one. As, the first three games of anyone's career are not a barometer of anything.

Peyton Manning had 1 TD in his first 3 games. Should that be a part of an evaluation of him as a player?

Mark Sanchez has 3 years of work now. He has some playoff wins, but he has few if any great performances. What he did in his first three games is not part of an 'up and down', it's simply not relevant.

so "few if any" includes the 11 4th quarter victories/Comebacks ? I know in some of those games he played bad at times but the bottom line is he came back and won the game.

You say you understand the point but its a bad one because Sanchez has not had good games in his career . Once again EY this is extreme and I think the point it valid I was not trying to use it like you say I was. He had 3 good games in the beginning of his career then he sh*t the bed its exactly what hes done for 3 years few good games in a row then the drop off .

You mention his playoff wins where I think he played very solid football and in a few of those games on the road out dueled Brady Manning and Rivers .

[ZachEY]

so "few if any" includes the 11 4th quarter victories/Comebacks ? I know in some of those games he played bad at times but the bottom line is he came back and won the game.

You say you understand the point but its a bad one because Sanchez has not had good games in his career . Once again EY this is extreme and I think the point it valid I was not trying to use it like you say I was. He had 3 good games in the beginning of his career then he sh*t the bed its exactly what hes done for 3 years few good games in a row then the drop off .

You mention his playoff wins where I think he played very solid football and in a few of those games on the road out dueled Brady Manning and Rivers .

Yes, because in many of those games where he had those come from behind wins, the reason we were in those positions is because of his abysmal play all game. I think back to the 2010 game vs. Denver. Sanchez was garbage all game. He threw up a miracle lob and for some reason, the DB decided to tackle Holmes. We got the ball on the 2 and scored to win. Happy to win, but that "performance" is one you're using to make Sanchez out to be capable. The irony of the whole argument is, because of our defense in his 1st two years, and partially last year as well, if Sanchez was decent, he'd have a lot less 4th Q comebacks, and we'd have had a lot more wins.

He has played "solid" at times in the playoffs, but certainly not when he beat the Colts. He barely existed for the 1st half, and we won that game because of Cromartie's kick return. He also didn't "outduel" Brady, Manning, or Rivers. He did better against their defenses, which were not good defenses than they did against ours, which was top 3 in the league.

The difference here is what you're calling "ups and downs", I'm calling "mostly downs with a rare flash of decent". Even his first three games were not incredible. They were pretty good, but they're propped up because of the emotion and excitement that came with them. Go back to the stats. Nothing that impressive.

[ZachEY]

I'm not making Sanchez out to be anythign he's not. He's not a top 10 or even 15 QB right now. But with all this considered, I don't see why some people cling to the argument that he regressed this year - he didn't. In fact, he played ever-so-slightly better and he did so while the offense around him had deteriorated. The knock on Sanchez should not be that he has regressed (he has progressed every year), but rather, that he has not progressed at the predicted rate.

I'm not making the argument that Sanchez regressed. I don't think he has.

I'm making the argument that he was never any good. And, that he continues at that rate.

The reason we're 8-8 this year is because the team took a step back, not Sanchez. The team was no longer able to carry him like it did the previous 2 years and couldn't cover his mistakes.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I'm not making the argument that Sanchez regressed. I don't think he has.

I'm making the argument that he was never any good. And, that he continues at that rate.

The reason we're 8-8 this year is because the team took a step back, not Sanchez. The team was no longer able to carry him like it did the previous 2 years and couldn't cover his mistakes.

O-line is what made the biggest regression, imo. Sanchez already holds on to the ball too long to begin with. Making him make quicker decisions = recipe for disaster.

Defense looked different cosmetically, but I don't know why people blame the defense. They were still a top 5 in total defense (YPG) and top 5 against the pass. Sure, I'd love a legit pass rusher, a safety, and faster players in general, but if Mr. Pick six stopped turning the ball over we would've made the playoffs easily.

[Larz]

you know what ?

this is all BS

rex is spinning things now and it's disappointing

you can't tell me he didn't understand the most predictable offense in the NFL

[TheSage]

SANCHEZ IS BETTER THAN MARINO.

Was not comparing the relative talents of the listed qbs -just responding the posts indicating lack of mental acuity was somehow responsible for Sanchez' inability to perform.