dbatesman Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Translation: I am throwing stupid crap out of my ass hoping I won't get called on it. Yeah, ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemusclyde Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Translation: I am throwing stupid crap out of my ass hoping I won't get called on it. Weren't you the guy not responding to anything I said except with things like, "oh your dumb and you love Tebow?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Following his junior year Brohm was the #1 prospect in the United States and Sanchez certainly wasn't higher than Brohm was after their respective junior years. Had Sanchez returned for his senior season, like Brohm, for all we know he would have been a marginal 2nd round prospect (or worse), instead of the extra year experience that would have allegedly made him better during his rookie NFL season. Who gives a sh*t? Youre speaking in hypotheticals and I'm speaking in facts. JL is annoying but he's right--youre talking out your ass. Sanchez couldve very well been the No. 1 QB prospect his senior year considering Bradford went No. 1 overall although he was hurt the entire year. That scenario has as equal validity as your hypothetical or even more so considering the connection to Brohm at a minor program compared to Sanchez being from USC. Its ridiculous to try to rewrite history based on hypotheticals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Who gives a sh*t? Youre speaking in hypotheticals and I'm speaking in facts. JL is annoying but he's right--youre talking out your ass. Sanchez couldve very well been the No. 1 QB prospect his senior year considering Bradford went No. 1 overall although he was hurt the entire year. That scenario has as equal validity as your hypothetical or even more so considering the connection to Brohm at a minor program compared to Sanchez being from USC. Its ridiculous to try to rewrite history based on hypotheticals. Considering the next best QBs were Josh Freeman, Pat White and Stephen McGee, you're being obtuse in discounting the fact that Sanchez's value was relative to being part of a radically underwhelming draft class. Market forces lead to bad buys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Considering the next best QBs were Josh Freeman, Pat White and Stephen McGee, you're being obtuse in discounting the fact that Sanchez's value was relative to being part of a radically underwhelming draft class. Market forces lead to bad buys. Wondering if there is a thread in the archives here from that draft day. Would love to see the no spin version on how some of our most vocal anti Sanchez posters felt at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Wondering if there is a thread in the archives here from that draft day. Would love to see the no spin version on how some of our most vocal anti Sanchez posters felt at the time. Difficult to recall. I know I wasn't ecstatic (big shocker there). I do recall Aten citing a bunch of efficiency numbers that were crazy predictive of what we're seeing now--inaccurate, turnover-prone, non-intuitive. He despised the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Wondering if there is a thread in the archives here from that draft day. Would love to see the no spin version on how some of our most vocal anti Sanchez posters felt at the time. Also bumped the draft thread from 2009. A lot of haters of Sanchez now were for it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius del Sol Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Struggling how? The fact is that teams rated Sanchez highly enough to give him a first round grade. People want to ignore history now? The fact is that the Jets rated Sanchez highly enough to give him a first round grade. The assertion that there was total unanimity of opinion on this at the time is not a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius del Sol Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Difficult to recall. I know I wasn't ecstatic (big shocker there). I do recall Aten citing a bunch of efficiency numbers that were crazy predictive of what we're seeing now--inaccurate, turnover-prone, non-intuitive. He despised the pick. This wasn't really based on efficiency statistics. Those numbers were fine but pretty heavily mitigated by the fact that his performance was basically right in line with the other quarterbacks in that system. Not the actual numbers here, obviously, but somebody like Cutler gets more credit for completing 60% when Vandy QBs typically complete 55% than Sanchez does for completing 65% when USC QBs always complete 65%. The problem is the start count. It's a problem for three reasons. First in that he couldn't beat out John David Booty in the first place, second in the resulting lack of experience, third in the small sample size for scouting purposes. It really doesn't take a great deal of prescience to have seen this coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Who gives a sh*t? Youre speaking in hypotheticals and I'm speaking in facts. JL is annoying but he's right--youre talking out your ass. Sanchez couldve very well been the No. 1 QB prospect his senior year considering Bradford went No. 1 overall although he was hurt the entire year. That scenario has as equal validity as your hypothetical or even more so considering the connection to Brohm at a minor program compared to Sanchez being from USC. Its ridiculous to try to rewrite history based on hypotheticals. I didn't rewrite anything. I'm allowing it was a realistic possibility that someone who was a "consensus" top prospect would have become nothing of the sort with another year of film on him. All I've read for going on 4 years now is how much better he surely would have been with another year of college under his belt. It is very possible it wouldn't have helped him at all and he wouldn't have any longer been considered a top prospect 1 year later. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 hey mods can we contain all the sanchez stuff to this thread ? it keeps things a little neater around here txs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The fact is that the Jets rated Sanchez highly enough to give him a first round grade. The assertion that there was total unanimity of opinion on this at the time is not a fact. Total unanimity? We dont know that, but we do know that multiple teams did from all the reporst at the time. Plus, we didnt hear of reports that he was not given a first round grade. As such, based on what is known, my original statement was 100% accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Considering the next best QBs were Josh Freeman, Pat White and Stephen McGee, you're being obtuse in discounting the fact that Sanchez's value was relative to being part of a radically underwhelming draft class. Market forces lead to bad buys. Who gives a sh*t? It couldve been a horrible buy, but Sanchez was still rated a 1st round talent. Some years no QB is taken or only 1. Professionals rated him a 1st round talent. They couldve been certainly wrong, but people need to stop acting like teams didnt at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Total unanimity? We dont know that, but we do know that multiple teams did from all the reporst at the time. Plus, we didnt hear of reports that he was not given a first round grade. As such, based on what is known, my original statement was 100% accurate. The level of hatred has bred irrational idiocity. The level of moron that some of these people have found is impressive. Someone please find one, just one analyst or scout or team who had Sanchez in the second round that draft? Just one, come on back up your moronic statements. Find one post and I will leave this forum for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I didn't rewrite anything. I'm allowing it was a realistic possibility that someone who was a "consensus" top prospect would have become nothing of the sort with another year of film on him. All I've read for going on 4 years now is how much better he surely would have been with another year of college under his belt. It is very possible it wouldn't have helped him at all and he wouldn't have any longer been considered a top prospect 1 year later. It happens. Your a joke, now it happens, but before we all knew it would happen?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Weren't you the guy not responding to anything I said except with things like, "oh your dumb and you love Tebow?" Weren't you the guy who tried to compare Harrison, Wayne and Edge to our current skill players??? Weren't you the one who talked of me having a hard on for Sanchez while you have naked Tebow pics as your avatar???? Do your patents wear a bag over their head in shame over being your family? Or do they just laugh at you like everyone else??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I know you are, but what am I? A joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I didn't rewrite anything. I'm allowing it was a realistic possibility that someone who was a "consensus" top prospect would have become nothing of the sort with another year of film on him. All I've read for going on 4 years now is how much better he surely would have been with another year of college under his belt. It is very possible it wouldn't have helped him at all and he wouldn't have any longer been considered a top prospect 1 year later. It happens. Wait, you came up with the hypothetical and are arguing this point with me because of what some fans have been telling you over the years? Really? As to your Brohm point, that was utter conjecture by draftnicks rather than teams. It wasnt like teams had him No. 1 and decided to drop him. All we know is what actually happened, the same with Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Wait, you came up with the hypothetical and are arguing this point with me because of what some fans have been telling you over the years? Really? As to your Brohm point, that was utter conjecture by draftnicks rather than teams. It wasnt like teams had him No. 1 and decided to drop him. All we know is what actually happened, the same with Sanchez. This is my point. It's ALL conjecture. It's conjecture that Sanchez would have been a better (or as good of a) prospect in 2010 than he was in 2009. The guy sucks and it's clear to me now he was always going to suck. Plenty of guys bust; he's just one of them. The difference is the Jets let their bust QB their team for the 4th straight season with zero legitimate competition no matter how badly he's played. Plus it's hard to conclude that only draftnicks had him as the #1 pick (or damn close to it) but every team had given Sanchez a first round grade. I would call that...conjecture. We should have traded up for Matt Ryan when we had the chance. Instead of Ryan plus our 2009 2nd rounder and a couple of defensive starters, we ended up with Gholston and Sanchez and millions of lost cap space and 4 seasons wasting good to great veteran teams on a fragile-minded, inaccurate, clueless, jittery, tunnel-visioned, emo stiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemusclyde Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Weren't you the guy who tried to compare Harrison, Wayne and Edge to our current skill players??? Weren't you the one who talked of me having a hard on for Sanchez while you have naked Tebow pics as your avatar???? Do your patents wear a bag over their head in shame over being your family? Or do they just laugh at you like everyone else??? My god your retarded. Last time I checked didn't we have the number one ranked rushing offense, which leads me to believe we also probably had the best o line to? Didn't we also have Keller and Braylon two first round picks. But, I forgot they suck and Peyton obviously had way better talent then us. I mean Wayne would obviously be a hall of famer with Sanchize, while Keller and Braylon would just suck major balls with Manning. It was the Colts awesome offense that carried Manning, after all Manning sucks while Sanchize would be a hall of famer if he had Manning's team. Do you even believe the sh*t your typing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 We should have traded up for Matt Ryan when we had the chance. Instead of Ryan plus our 2009 2nd rounder and a couple of defensive starters, we ended up with Gholston and Sanchez and millions of lost cap space and 4 seasons wasting good to great veteran teams on a fragile-minded, inaccurate, clueless, jittery, tunnel-visioned, emo stiff. Or, we could've just not won that meaningless game in OT against KC that previous year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 This is my point. It's ALL conjecture. It's conjecture that Sanchez would have been a better (or as good of a) prospect in 2010 than he was in 2009. The guy sucks and it's clear to me now he was always going to suck. Plenty of guys bust; he's just one of them. The difference is the Jets let their bust QB their team for the 4th straight season with zero legitimate competition no matter how badly he's played. Plus it's hard to conclude that only draftnicks had him as the #1 pick (or damn close to it) but every team had given Sanchez a first round grade. I would call that...conjecture. We should have traded up for Matt Ryan when we had the chance. Instead of Ryan plus our 2009 2nd rounder and a couple of defensive starters, we ended up with Gholston and Sanchez and millions of lost cap space and 4 seasons wasting good to great veteran teams on a fragile-minded, inaccurate, clueless, jittery, tunnel-visioned, emo stiff. While I agree with you on Matt Ryan, there were many draft experts and teams who were saying that Ryan was a big question mark as the number one pick. Many questioned his arm strength and that he came from BC. I was hoping the year before we would go after him, and for the record I was against the Sanchez pick when we made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Wondering if there is a thread in the archives here from that draft day. Would love to see the no spin version on how some of our most vocal anti Sanchez posters felt at the time. I'll tell you right now and save you the research. I was excited. But i was excited about Gholston too. I don't follow college football closely and am usually optimistic about anyone the Jets pick. So, that included Sanchez. I thought maybe we'd finally gotten a franchise QB. A cursory look at the highlight package was enough to give me hope. But, since my initial feeling was based on nothing more than hope, once live bullets started flying, opinions changed quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Your a joke, now it happens, but before we all knew it would happen?? Anger management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Anger management. Lol, I'm going tomorrow, thanks for carobg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 This is my point. It's ALL conjecture. It's conjecture that Sanchez would have been a better (or as good of a) prospect in 2010 than he was in 2009. The guy sucks and it's clear to me now he was always going to suck. Plenty of guys bust; he's just one of them. The difference is the Jets let their bust QB their team for the 4th straight season with zero legitimate competition no matter how badly he's played. Plus it's hard to conclude that only draftnicks had him as the #1 pick (or damn close to it) but every team had given Sanchez a first round grade. I would call that...conjecture. We should have traded up for Matt Ryan when we had the chance. Instead of Ryan plus our 2009 2nd rounder and a couple of defensive starters, we ended up with Gholston and Sanchez and millions of lost cap space and 4 seasons wasting good to great veteran teams on a fra. gile-minded, inaccurate, clueless, jittery, tunnel-visioned, emo stiff. First, Sanchez sucks. Second, I agree with you on Ryan, but the Falcons were hellbent on getting him after the Vick prison drama. Third, all youve been saying about what Sanchez or Brohm wouldve been had they gome out at a given time is pure conjecture. Fourth, I, on the otherhand, am speaking in facts of where Sanchez was drafted and ranked by teams. I dont care about conjecture four years later and Im certainly not going to engage in it to fit an argument. Sanchez sucks, by was rated highly by teams at the time. It wasnt a Tebow situation where teams gave him 3rd and 4th rpund grades, but McDumbass selected him late in the first.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Fourth, I, on the otherhand, am speaking in facts of where Sanchez was drafted and ranked by teams. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Lol, I'm going tomorrow, thanks for carobg He's getting his doctorate in carobg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 We should have traded up for Matt Ryan when we had the chance. I had a ryan crush. everyone told me he threw too many picks. i watched some stuff on him and just loved his game. sanchez still hasn't matured. he is still a fragile teenager at heart. sure he has decision making issues, but to me that is the problem right now. we need him to get the huggies off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius del Sol Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Link? He doesn't have to prove it, you have to disprove it. Nyah nyah. The bust projection on Sanchez was out there and it was based on an absolutely unequivocal historical track record. It simply is not a possibility that a single team was unaware of it or that it wasn't taken seriously by at least a few of them. He started sixteen games for the USC offense bust factory and the presumption is that everybody was head over heels unless proven otherwise? My Cassandra complex has a Cassandra complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Also that stuff about Brohm is a bit revisionist. His drop was more due to how everyone realized he had a McElroy-esque noodle at the Combine. This was well documented that Spring and the links are still probably out there if someone really wanted to use the Google for it. Yes, that was slowly being realized as more scouts witnessed his games in person during his final year and he had already begun to drop due to that, but it would have been exposed in Mobile regardless of whether or not he'd come out as a junior. It's really a miracle he even went in the 2nd, a guy who couldn't drive the deep ball to that degree had no business going that early, so one could even argue that his staying helped him, because that much experience is generally regarded as a plus. And Louisville is not a minor program. Come on man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Prediction: If we lose this thread goes to 100 pages If we win this thread goes to 100 pages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Link? Its ridiculous I have to do research from stuff over 3 yrs ago on this because you are your disengenuous ilk want to rewrite history. Just a quick research from guys like Mayock and Brandt, and I'll look to see what I can find from articles on team views which we all knew were out there at the time. Mayock had Sanchez as the best QB in 2009 draft while Brandt had Sanchez in the 11-20 draft pick category, which Brandt put behind Freeman and Stafford, which he put in 1-10 category. http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?id=09000d5d80dff358&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80fa18ce&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Also that stuff about Brohm is a bit revisionist. His drop was more due to how everyone realized he had a McElroy-esque noodle at the Combine. This was well documented that Spring and the links are still probably out there if someone really wanted to use the Google for it. Yes, that was slowly being realized as more scouts witnessed his games in person during his final year and he had already begun to drop due to that, but it would have been exposed in Mobile regardless of whether or not he'd come out as a junior. It's really a miracle he even went in the 2nd, a guy who couldn't drive the deep ball to that degree had no business going that early, so one could even argue that his staying helped him, because that much experience is generally regarded as a plus. And Louisville is not a minor program. Come on man. Nobody gives a sh*t about Brohm and Louisville. The point is, Rutgers, regardless of your personal opinion on Sanchez then or now, do you agree with those disengenuous posters here who want to rewrite history and claim that teams didnt give Sanchez a first round draft grade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Fourth, I, on the otherhand, am speaking in facts of where Sanchez was drafted and ranked by teams. I dont care about conjecture four years later and Im certainly not going to engage in it to fit an argument. Sanchez sucks, by was rated highly by teams at the time. It wasnt a Tebow situation where teams gave him 3rd and 4th rpund grades, but McDumbass selected him late in the first.. Its ridiculous I have to do research from stuff over 3 yrs ago on this because you are your disengenuous ilk want to rewrite history. Just a quick research from guys like Mayock and Brandt, and I'll look to see what I can find from articles on team views which we all knew were out there at the time. Mayock had Sanchez as the best QB in 2009 draft while Brandt had Sanchez in the 11-20 draft pick category, which Brandt put behind Freeman and Stafford, which he put in 1-10 category. http://www.nfl.com/n...ts&confirm=true http://www.nfl.com/d...ts&confirm=true Mayock/Brandt ≠ teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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