Now Milliner goes down!!!

[unbanmadmike1]

So what if it is?  If we can't trust the GM to do his job we're screwed anyways.  Find another team until Woody dies or something.

Fair. 

[NJ]

The Good News:

The deplorable D-backfield insures we will be top 3 in run defense this year.

The Very Bad News:

Half our games this season are against top 10 QB/receiving corps teams - the other half won't need to be to pick apart the hot mess duo of Patterson and Wilson.

You think before the season starts  ... the backfield wont be that bad ... they'll have a plan for that ...

One game into the preseason and we're in pretty bad shape.   

[ylekram]

So what if it is?  If we can't trust the GM to do his job we're screwed anyways.  Find another team until Woody dies or something.

or we can do what you do and support incompetence and at the same time, belittle anybody that doesnt

[slats]

He stripped the roster bare and we still found a way to win 8 games last season, playing our best football in the final quarter of the season.  His first draft pick was Rookie of the Month in December and his 2nd draft pick was Defensive Rookie of the Year.  Say what you will about Geno, but he was the top-rated QB prospect from the 2013 draft and he did win an Offensive Player of the Week award in the Atlanta game.

 

This offseason he signed the top WR on the free agent market, one of the top RB's, added QB competition and didn't needlessly give away draft picks, allowing us to add talent at many different positions on the field. 

 

I get the impatience but if you can't find some reasons to be positive about the direction our team is going I suggest you take a look at what happened to this team in 2011-12.  Putting together a perennial contender takes a lot of time to create and is quite easy to tear down if all you do is go after quick fixes.

 

This is all well and good, but he whiffed on the CB position when there were a lot of them available, and he had (has) a lot of money to spend. He could've signed a guy like Alterraun Verner, and still been $20M under the cap. This argument that he had to be frugal there is sorta silly. Looked like they were hoping for Fuller in the draft, but he didn't drop. Idzik clearly likes the value of injured players, but the trifecta of Milliner, Paterson, and McDougle was a risky decision, and it's not paying off right now. 

[Bugg]

Jameis Winston won a national title.  And he doesn't act like a giant child.  Which, you know, wouldn't be a good match for the NYC media, I don't think.

So your logic is QBs who happen to be on teams winning national championships are better than more talented ones who might fail to so win. Tee Walker > Peyton Manning, I guess. . So sadly we never signed Walker, Charlie Ward, Gino Toretta nor  Chuck Fusina, among a cast of dozens who so won a title. Or those like Vince Young who won a title and then sucked as pros anyway. Impeccable genius. 

 

Also, Jameis Winston has not exactly been spending his days running from the local soup kitchen to evening novenas.It's been in all the paper and on the interwebs.  Grant you Manziel has partied pretty hard (as I imagine so has Winston) but that might be the case with most 22-year old American males. But most don't have people filming them on cell phones every day.Seems a lot of great QBs are not saints, some are even total douchebags.While it would be better to root for a nice guy, I'll take a great QB who happens to be a (noncriminal) jerk. 

[Matt39]

Guard was even more ignored than CB, which isn't exactly a position you had to break the bank for.

[T0mShane]

Guard was even more ignored than CB, which isn't exactly a position you had to break the bank for.

Idzik is going to make these kids work for it, which I like. If Winters, Aboushi, Campbell, etc can't pull it together, the season is ****ed anyway, but at least we're taking a chance on finding cheap, semi-long-term starters from the draft pool. You can't win titles by relying on free agency to fill every hole. The bulk of the roster has to be home-grown if you're looking at a three-year run.

[Jetsfan80]

Guard was even more ignored than CB, which isn't exactly a position you had to break the bank for.

 

This is true.  It was ignored in the draft as well. 

[Jetsfan80]

This is all well and good, but he whiffed on the CB position when there were a lot of them available, and he had (has) a lot of money to spend. He could've signed a guy like Alterraun Verner, and still been $20M under the cap. This argument that he had to be frugal there is sorta silly. Looked like they were hoping for Fuller in the draft, but he didn't drop. Idzik clearly likes the value of injured players, but the trifecta of Milliner, Paterson, and McDougle was a risky decision, and it's not paying off right now. 

 

Only CB that would have made sense for our scheme was Vontae Davis, and he signed with his old team as EY mentioned.  Verner didn't fit our system, Revis would have been gone in a year, DRC is utterly overrated.  I would have preferred to retain Cromartie above those FA options, as I think he'll have a bounceback year now that he's healthy. 

 

But otherwise we can't say he "whiffed" at corner unless/until the rookies he's drafted fail.

[pointman]

As in what exactly is this time constraint we have that we have to go all in to win this season? Our players are young. Denver and NE have aging players at key spots that need to win now the SB now. They're the ones that can use up as much of their cap space as possible.

As in player careers are sooo long, and the window of opportunity is so great that we should work on five year plans.

[Matt39]

Idzik is going to make these kids work for it, which I like. If Winters, Aboushi, Campbell, etc can't pull it together, the season is ****ed anyway, but at least we're taking a chance on finding cheap, semi-long-term starters from the draft pool. You can't win titles by relying on free agency to fill every hole. The bulk of the roster has to be home-grown if you're looking at a three-year run.

I like the competition aspect for sure- only concern is Winters was brutal last season(think Vlad actually graded out better). Aboushi was unplayable after the preseason he had last year...it just seems like a total question mark still. If it's a competition between 2 guys who both stink, you need to bring in a vet.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I like the competition aspect for sure- only concern is Winters was brutal last season(think Vlad actually graded out better). Aboushi was unplayable after the preseason he had last year...it just seems like a total question mark still. If it's a competition between 2 guys who both stink, you need to bring in a vet.

 

Agree on this. Not bring in a real guard is a pretty big failure. The OL was bad last year and I don't see it magically getting better this year.

[T0mShane]

I like the competition aspect for sure- only concern is Winters was brutal last season(think Vlad actually graded out better). Aboushi was unplayable after the preseason he had last year...it just seems like a total question mark still. If it's a competition between 2 guys who both stink, you need to bring in a vet.

Word, but I think the vet route begins next year if the kids still stink. I forgot where I read it, but someone wrote that both Winters and Aboushi weren't ready to play from a physical standpoint and that both needed a summer or two in an NFL strength program coughhgh. We shall see, I guess.

[ZachEY]

Here is my take on that line of thought, which I get but disagree with:

It's a reasonable request in baseball. Long seasons and it's a cheap sport to follow. But Football? Where you ask fans to pay several thousand dollars just to have the right to buy seats? Front offices lost the right to set that expectation for fans. And they lost it a while ago.

 

This is a hard scenario.

 

Because even if front offices have lost that right, we can safely say that the only way to really be a winner is to do it slowly.  Those buying PSL and expensive seats need to understand what they're buying, and that's the right to sit in a stadium, unfortunately not the product in front of them.  Regardless of the cost.

[ZachEY]

Woody Johnson is a horrid owner and there's absolutely no reason why ticket prices should be so obscene.

 

Because people still buy them?

[T0mShane]

Here is my take on that line of thought, which I get but disagree with:

It's a reasonable request in baseball. Long seasons and it's a cheap sport to follow. But Football? Where you ask fans to pay several thousand dollars just to have the right to buy seats? Front offices lost the right to set that expectation for fans. And they lost it a while ago.

You can get away with it if you project some sort of credibility, but the Jets as an organization gave up on that facade a long time ago. Even if they brought in a name figurehead type to name as VP of Football Ops (or some such), you could sell the fans on a rebuild. But, instead, you have a head coach talking playoffs and Super Bowls without anyone there to slap him, so you get what you got.

[ZachEY]

or we can do what you do and support incompetence and at the same time, belittle anybody that doesnt

 

8-8 is a far cry from incompetence and an improvement over the prior season.

 

Few of us expected to go from 6-10 to 12-4.

 

Incremental growth.

[RutgersJetFan]

You can get away with it if you project some sort of credibility, but the Jets as an organization gave up on that facade a long time ago. Even if they brought in a name figurehead type to name as VP of Football Ops (or some such), you could sell the fans on a rebuild. But, instead, you have a head coach talking playoffs and Super Bowls without anyone there to slap him, so you get what you got.

Yeah, this is where I am at. Pretty much at a ****youpayme point with the organization. Woody Johnson has been asking me to be patient for my entire adult life. Him and his requests for patience can blow me. At this point it's W's or stfu.

[Jetsfan80]

Because people still buy them?

 

NFL-wide, sure.  But Jets' ticket prices are the highest in the league, even ahead of the Giants. 

[Bugg]

Yeah, this is where I am at. Pretty much at a ****youpayme point with the organization. Woody Johnson has been asking me to be patient for my entire adult life. Him and his requests for patience can blow me. At this point it's W's or stfu.

We no longer have season tickets.Didn't help that myself and one other person were very affected by Hurricane Sandy, but we were looking for the exits almost from the day we bought in to the new stadium. Nonetheless, the idea they're still bleeding customers for PSL money with $30 million of unspent cap room is pretty galling. Not sure how anyone in good conscience can give this team that kind of money. May still take the boys to a game or 2, but a season's worth of this product, no way. And it shows with all the ads that a lot of people who had Jets tickets also begged off.

[Bleedin Green]

The interesting things about these arguments is the massive holes in logic that they require to be accepted.  This entire concept about Idzik supposedly just sitting around picking his nose while having absolutely no interest in spending a cent in free agency requires ignoring two fairly significant realities:

 

1.  It requires you to blatantly ignore that the Jets signed arguably the top free agents (at worst, second best) at three positions of need on their offense, the very unit that absolutely everyone agreed needed to be the focus of the Jets' offseason:  WR, RB, and QB.  To act as if this is not relevant means we should believe that either: had the Jets picked up one of the top-rated CBs while missing out on one of those players, these same folks wouldn't be throwing a fit about that other position now instead, or it is reasonable to expect the Jets to have rebuilt their entire team this past FA.

 

2.  We need to pretend that the other teams in the NFL have little real interest in signing FAs, so the Jets should just be able to sign whoever the hell they want at any given time.  It also assumes all players would prefer to play for the Jets over the teams they actually signed with, even if the player decided to sign with them immediately after becoming a FA (e.g., Revis).  Not to mention, it's all based on the idea that the other players were all worth as much, but likely even more, money than what ultimately ended up being the top bid for them by the other 31 teams through all of FA.  This all of course also assumes that if the Jets were to have outbid the team that the player ended up signing with, that team would not have made another as well.

 

So yes, I suppose if we inexplicably accept all of this as reasonable, then I guess there's a point to be made.

 

That's not even to mention that this thread repeatedly cites incorrectly inflated numbers about the supposed cap space the Jets currently have, while also making baseless claims about how allegedly no other team in the league has anywhere near as much space as they do.

[Bugg]

The interesting things about these arguments is the massive holes in logic that they require to be accepted.  This entire concept about Idzik supposedly just sitting around picking his nose while having absolutely no interest in spending a cent in free agency requires ignoring two fairly significant realities:

 

1.  It requires you to blatantly ignore that the Jets signed arguably the top free agents (at worst, second best) at three positions of need on their offense, the very unit that absolutely everyone agreed needed to be the focus of the Jets' offseason:  WR, RB, and QB.  To act as if this is not relevant means we should believe that either: had the Jets picked up one of the top-rated CBs while missing out on one of those players, these same folks wouldn't be throwing a fit about that other position now instead, or it is reasonable to expect the Jets to have rebuilt their entire team this past FA.

 

2.  We need to pretend that the other teams in the NFL have little real interest in signing FAs, so the Jets should just be able to sign whoever the hell they want at any given time.  It also assumes all players would prefer to play for the Jets over the teams they actually signed with, even if the player decided to sign with them immediately after becoming a FA (e.g., Revis).  Not to mention, it's all based on the idea that the other players were all worth as much, but likely even more, money than what ultimately ended up being the top bid for them by the other 31 teams through all of FA.  This all of course also assumes that if the Jets were to have outbid the team that the player ended up signing with, that team would not have made another as well.

 

So yes, I suppose if we inexplicably accept all of this as reasonable, then I guess there's a point to be made.

 

That's not even to mention that this thread repeatedly cites incorrectly inflated numbers about the supposed cap space the Jets currently have, while also making baseless claims about how allegedly no other team in the league has anywhere near as much space as they do.

Then how much cap toom do the Jets have? If the $30 million figure is close to accurate why were they not players on a primo corner?

[Matt39]

NFL-wide, sure. But Jets' ticket prices are the highest in the league, even ahead of the Giants.

It's a bit skewed. Upper deck seats are fairly reasonable. Where as with the Giants both upper and lowers are fairly expensive. The demand for Jets seats are in the LL.

[bealeb319]

to stay positive about this terrible situation milliner should be back before the season actually starts and this gives us a chance to evaluate some fresh faces down the depth chart. Dixon is great example I would love to see him get some play time I think he could end up being decent. and now Patterson gets his second chance to step up and play well. the season is not over yet it sucks mcdougle will likely be out for the season but keep in mind your all making the assumption that the first preseason game is an indication of how these guys were going to play throughout the entire season. sometimes good players have bad days and bad players have good ones. relax enjoy the preseason and hopefully something works out but don't be crying about how we didn't over pay a cb who might not have played any better then the guys on our roster remember we have other players who want to be paid too like Wilkerson who has proven he can play like a jet.

[Jetsfan80]

Then how much cap toom do the Jets have? If the $30 million figure is close to accurate why were they not players on a primo corner?

 

For 2 primary reasons:  1.  The most successful teams in the NFL don't spend big on free agent corners, they draft and develop their own; 2.  We already used a top 10 pick at CB in the draft the previous season, and also had Kyle Wilson, a late 1st rounder, already on the roster.

 

Even so, it was reported that the Jets did look into Vontae Davis, but he stuck with the Colts.  Spending big money on an overrated CB like DRC or Munnerlyn, overpaying Revis or bringing in a zone corner like Verner were not optimal choices. 

 

We have built up our DL to prepare for bad secondary play, and as that is Rex's expertise, it's up to him to figure it out. 

[faba]

Man some people act like in the sports world there will be no injuries- you have to battle through it. No one is going cry for you- it is up to Rex to maange the players he has and figure out the defense. Sorry can not have 53 all stars on your team one goes down put in another all star

[faba]

I hate the Yankees but look as them for example- 4 fifths of their starting rotation has gotten hurt - they are keeping alive in the race. they are finding a way to do it- mix and match

[AVM]

For 2 primary reasons:  1.  The most successful teams in the NFL don't spend big on free agent corners, they draft and develop their own; 2.  We already used a top 10 pick at CB in the draft the previous season, and also had Kyle Wilson, a late 1st rounder, already on the roster.

 

Even so, it was reported that the Jets did look into Vontae Davis, but he stuck with the Colts.  Spending big money on an overrated CB like DRC or Munnerlyn, overpaying Revis or bringing in a zone corner like Verner were not optimal choices. 

 

We have built up our DL to prepare for bad secondary play, and as that is Rex's expertise, it's up to him to figure it out. 

 

LOL...can you imagine the whiney meltdown the likes of some would have if we signed Munnerlyn and he turned out to be, you know...Captain Munnerlyn?

 

[#27TheDominator]

One thing I will agree with is that they are giving Patterson legit money and so far he seems atrocious. 

[Matt39]

One thing I will agree with is that they are giving Patterson legit money and so far he seems atrocious.

Not sure why they thought he could start on the outside. He was a nickel in Miami.

[#27TheDominator]

Not sure why they thought he could start on the outside. He was a nickel in Miami.

 

I don't know.  I thought maybe they saw something.  I thought it was crazy talk that Woody could be an effective RT, but he was.  I think I cut them too much slack.  Ryan did not seem on board with it. It might have made sense if they thought that WIlson could play outside, but they seem to be giving everybody a shot out there before him. 

[Matt39]

I don't know. I thought maybe they saw something. I thought it was crazy talk that Woody could be an effective RT, but he was. I think I cut them too much slack. Ryan did not seem on board with it. It might have made sense if they thought that WIlson could play outside, but they seem to be giving everybody a shot out there before him.

I think the organization is waiting for Wilson's contract to expire. He's essentially useless.

[#27TheDominator]

I think the organization is waiting for Wilson's contract to expire. He's essentially useless.

 

I agree, but if I can understand them thinking they could flop Patterson inside.  Wilson wasn't horrible playing outside in 2012.  I'd have thought it was a mistake, but Wilson seemed better out there than Patterson has in the limited time I've seen him. 

[Matt39]

I agree, but if I can understand them thinking they could flop Patterson inside. Wilson wasn't horrible playing outside in 2012. I'd have thought it was a mistake, but Wilson seemed better out there than Patterson has in the limited time I've seen him.

Considering Wilson's lack of awareness/ball skills...no idea why we keep playing him at the nickel. He doesn't jump the out route like you need your nickel guys to do. Wilson hasn't made a significant play in 4 years here.

So to your point- I agree he should be playing the outside. I guess he's a decent tackler.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Considering Wilson's lack of awareness/ball skills...no idea why we keep playing him at the nickel. He doesn't jump the out route like you need your nickel guys to do. Wilson hasn't made a significant play in 4 years here.

So to your point- I agree he should be playing the outside. I guess he's a decent tackler.

 

Didn't he play outside exclusively at Boise as well? Kind of weird that his career path so far has been nickel.