We must not draft a QB

[section314]

If Winston is there you have to take him.

Saw a mock last night on NFL network that had Winston going 10th to Rams. Had Jets taking Fowler. Mariota went#1 overall. Was by Charles Davis.

[jack48]

I see Dante Fowler Jr. or Landon Collins as great picks in the first round of this draft.  There is so much depth at WR that it makes sense to go defense in the first round.  And with that mentality, I think the O line can be addressed in free agency.  

 

There is simply no need to take a Quarterback- we have nothing to gain by doing so.  Winston won't be there at 6 and Geno is a better talent than Mariota.  

 

So much depth at wide receiver? Body count is not depth

[FTL Jet Fan]

I see Dante Fowler Jr. or Landon Collins as great picks in the first round of this draft. There is so much depth at WR that it makes sense to go defense in the first round. And with that mentality, I think the O line can be addressed in free agency.

There is simply no need to take a Quarterback- we have nothing to gain by doing so. Winston won't be there at 6 and Geno is a better talent than Mariota.

Sounds like an Idzik philosophy. Now Fowler I would be ok with but we have to take a QB in the later rounds like a Petty or a Sean M.

[Smashmouth]

Not sure why Mariota gets a bad rap from so many fans because he played in a certain type of offense. The kid is smart and has shown the ability to read a defense and adjust on the fly. Most QB's drafted into the NFL have the talent to play the position, the key question is, do they have the brains ?

 

Listening to Mariota talk you can tell the kid knows WTF he's talking about and he does not sound like an Idiot when interviewed. He's 6-4 can make all the throws (because I've seen him do it) and can also roll out and throw well on the run. He's also very elusive in the pocket and can make something out of nothing.

 

If you don't like the kid simply based on the offense he plays in, then IMO your being short sighted. All that being said, I do not think he's the type of player you would give up tons of picks to move up and take number 1 over all but I do believe if he is there at 6 you take him without a doubt. Then you sign a guy like Matt Moore and let Mariota sit and learn for a year.

 

I think this scenario works well for the Jets because I think this team with all the cap money and draft picks we can easily be an 8 win football team ...which puts us in the middle of next years draft at which point if a QB does become available and you passed on Mariota the year before then its going to cost a hell of a lot more to move up and get him. Then we are in the same Jet boat we have been in for the past 40 years, field a good football team, with a good solid defense, and no one who can play the QB position.

[Rexorcism]

I see Dante Fowler Jr. or Landon Collins as great picks in the first round of this draft.  There is so much depth at WR that it makes sense to go defense in the first round.  And with that mentality, I think the O line can be addressed in free agency.  

 

There is simply no need to take a Quarterback- we have nothing to gain by doing so.  Winston won't be there at 6 and Geno is a better talent than Mariota.

We must not listen to Jetsmanjb

[faba]

Jets have to take  a guy in the middle rounds that has potential with training and learning- if they they do not get the top two QB's which I do not want

[Savage69]

Are you sh*tting me? Another safety in the first round. Pryor hasn't shown anything, but it would be sheer foolishness to pick another safety with so many other needs. I'm not sure about drafting another tweener DE/OLB either. Jets don't have to draft a QB in my book, but a WR, or OL would be a better option. If franchise QB not there, I wouldn't mind a trade down to get OL and later picks. Jets aren't challenging the Pats until Brady is gone anyway so build it piece by piece.  

Well in 2010 we did beat them 2 out of 3 times and knocked them out of the playoffs so it can be done..

[Warfish]

QB is the biggest hole to fill.

We are not getting to the superbowl with Ryan Fitzpatrick.

If they simply don't like Winston or Mariotta (if available) as much as the next guy available, and (for example) can swing a mega-trade with the Eagles and still get the guy they like better, I'm ok with that. But they'd better be right about it.

I'm not ok with just throwing a late round pick at the game's most important position and picking up a #2 QB in free agency to be the team's starter. Particularly if a consensus top pick is still there for us at #6.

 

We're not getting to the Super Bowl, period endstop, in 2015 regardless.

 

So with that out of the way, we're discussing 2016 and beyond.

 

So what makes you believe a guy who lacks elite NFL passing talent (Mariota) or a guy who lacks any maturity or good judgement (Winston) will win a Super Bowl for us in 2016 and beyond?

 

For me, thats what it comes down to.  I simply have no faith either of these guys will pan out.

 

One I see as a prototypical college guy who fails at the NFL level because he simply doesn't have the talent for that level.  And he comes from Oregon, no one good comes from Oregon.

 

The other I see, with millions in his pocket and adult freedoms in New York City, as a crime blotter case waiting to happen.  The kid simply has not shown any judgment, pretty much ever.  He's a thug, and I believe a rapist, frankly.

 

Why risk the next 2-3 seasons on that?  You could go safe, pick a guy at another vital position, who will lock down that spot for 6-10 years.  Almost no risk.

 

You can still draft a QB to develop.  You can sign 2 Vets, whichever ones you like, both of whom will have more physical talent than Marriotta, and more brains than Winston.

 

Then we re-look at QB in the 2016 draft.  And 2017 Draft.  And 2018 Draft.  As needed.

 

What about the risks of these two make you think they're worthy?  

 

Or, conversely, if they ARE that worthy, that they'll fall to us at #6?

[Sperm Edwards]

We're not getting to the Super Bowl, period endstop, in 2015 regardless.

 

So with that out of the way, we're discussing 2016 and beyond.

 

So what makes you believe a guy who lacks elite NFL passing talent (Mariota) or a guy who lacks any maturity or good judgement (Winston) will win a Super Bowl for us in 2016 and beyond?

 

For me, thats what it comes down to.  I simply have no faith either of these guys will pan out.

 

One I see as a prototypical college guy who fails at the NFL level because he simply doesn't have the talent for that level.  And he comes from Oregon, no one good comes from Oregon.

 

The other I see, with millions in his pocket and adult freedoms in New York City, as a crime blotter case waiting to happen.  The kid simply has not shown any judgment, pretty much ever.  He's a thug, and I believe a rapist, frankly.

 

Why risk the next 2-3 seasons on that?  You could go safe, pick a guy at another vital position, who will lock down that spot for 6-10 years.  Almost no risk.

 

You can still draft a QB to develop.  You can sign 2 Vets, whichever ones you like, both of whom will have more physical talent than Marriotta, and more brains than Winston.

 

Then we re-look at QB in the 2016 draft.  And 2017 Draft.  And 2018 Draft.  As needed.

 

What about the risks of these two make you think they're worthy?  

 

Or, conversely, if they ARE that worthy, that they'll fall to us at #6?

Yeah you could be totally right about both of them. There are plenty of concerns about each. I don't have any real opinions about either QB as I haven't really watched either play.

My issue with the thread starter was in saying there's no potential upside, not that I was arguing what was necessarily the better or worse move for the team. We won't know that for certain until some time goes by, unfortunately. But of course there's potential upside in taking one of the draft's top 2 QB prospects who are both projected between #1-6.

Also (as I said) I'm totally fine if the team doesn't like either of those two enough to pass on another #6 pick (e.g. Cooper, if he's there, since everyone says how great he's going to be). Or trade down if the Eagles offer us a good package with Foles. But I do have an issue with not taking a shot on any QB until rounds 6-7. A team with a starting QB in place looks for hopefully-reliable backups in those later rounds. A team with no QB doesn't limit its QB search to there, even in the face of a less than stellar QB class.

Take a shot on a guy in rounds 2-4. I'm no draftnik so I accept that I'm conveniently speaking in generalities rather than targeting a specific player that requires a specific stance. But while this draft class isn't one everyone's gushing over, it's not like there's 2 QBs projected in/around the top 5 and the next tier of prospects is at the very bottom where one drafts fullbacks and backup/developmental offensive linemen.

I get the opinion that taking a QB that high kind of leads the team into passing on any potential franchise QB prospect in the top few rounds the following year (barring a Manziel type meltdown). The same way extending Sanchez kept us from even considering Wilson unless he dropped to round 5 (since Tannenbaum had also traded our 4th for Tebow ). A first time, scouting-heavy GM isn't likely to admit he was oh so wrong on a #6 overall pick QB after only 1 season, and draft another one with a higher pick the following year. So I agree with you on what a bust top-10 pick QB does to an already-hurting franchise.

I'm just saying there are QB prospects to consider after #6 but still prior to round 6, and of course the potential upside is there even if some think it's better (or worse) than others do.

[Smashmouth]

We're not getting to the Super Bowl, period endstop, in 2015 regardless.

 

So with that out of the way, we're discussing 2016 and beyond.

 

So what makes you believe a guy who lacks elite NFL passing talent (Mariota) or a guy who lacks any maturity or good judgement (Winston) will win a Super Bowl for us in 2016 and beyond?

 

For me, thats what it comes down to.  I simply have no faith either of these guys will pan out.

 

One I see as a prototypical college guy who fails at the NFL level because he simply doesn't have the talent for that level.  And he comes from Oregon, no one good comes from Oregon.

 

The other I see, with millions in his pocket and adult freedoms in New York City, as a crime blotter case waiting to happen.  The kid simply has not shown any judgment, pretty much ever.  He's a thug, and I believe a rapist, frankly.

 

Why risk the next 2-3 seasons on that?  You could go safe, pick a guy at another vital position, who will lock down that spot for 6-10 years.  Almost no risk.

 

You can still draft a QB to develop.  You can sign 2 Vets, whichever ones you like, both of whom will have more physical talent than Marriotta, and more brains than Winston.

 

Then we re-look at QB in the 2016 draft.  And 2017 Draft.  And 2018 Draft.  As needed.

 

What about the risks of these two make you think they're worthy?  

 

Or, conversely, if they ARE that worthy, that they'll fall to us at #6?

what exactly is "elite level passing talent" in the NFL ?

 

I've seen many QB's with great arms and so called "elite level passing talent" sh*t the bed. I have also seen a QB with a moderate arm win 4 SB's .... problem with what your saying is Mariota does have a strong arm, it may not be elite but he can certainly make all the throws and that's all you can ask for. The question is how much work will these guys put in ? Winston ..I want no part of because I agree he will be trouble and that does not bode well for an NFL QB, it never has and never will. I can see Mariota putting in the work and busting his ass to become the best he can be and I would certainly be willing to take that chance on a guy who happens to be an elite athlete with the 6th pick in the draft. Ive seen him pass from the pocket and roll out and hes done well in both instances his work ethic is not in question.

 

if a guy like Joe Namath came out today 90 % of this board would balk ..the guy was a running QB at Alabama without all the hideous injuries he sustained he would have been in a few more SB's and he didn't get those injuries from running. Sure different era different game but Namath 'the running QB' was one of the true pioneers at turning the NFL into the passing league it started to become in the early 80's with the Montana's and Marino's paving the way

[T0mShane]

what exactly is "elite level passing talent" in the NFL ?

I've seen many QB's with great arms and so called "elite level passing talent" sh*t the bed. I have also seen a QB with a moderate arm win 4 SB's .... problem with what your saying is Mariota does have a strong arm, it may not be elite but he can certainly make all the throws and that's all you can ask for. The question is how much work will these guys put in ? Winston ..I want no part of because I agree he will be trouble and that does not bode well for an NFL QB, it never has and never will. I can see Mariota putting in the work and busting his ass to become the best he can be and I would certainly be willing to take that chance on a guy who happens to be an elite athlete with the 6th pick in the draft. Ive seen him pass from the pocket and roll out and hes done well in both instances his work ethic is not in question.

if a guy like Joe Namath came out today 90 % of this board would balk ..the guy was a running QB at Alabama without all the hideous injuries he sustained he would have been in a few more SB's and he didn't get those injuries from running. Sure different era different game but Namath 'the running QB' was one of the true pioneers at turning the NFL into the passing league it started to become in the early 80's with the Montana's and Marino's paving the way

He sucks.

[Jet Life]

Im personally not completely sold on him, but I would still take him at 6. We are desperate 

[Powpow]

I see Dante Fowler Jr. or Landon Collins as great picks in the first round of this draft.  There is so much depth at WR that it makes sense to go defense in the first round.  And with that mentality, I think the O line can be addressed in free agency.  

 

There is simply no need to take a Quarterback- we have nothing to gain by doing so.  Winston won't be there at 6 and Geno is a better talent than Mariota.  

You must be on some experimental drug.

[BurnleyJet]

I wonder if Mariota was there at 6, and Philly got on the phone and said, Foles, this years 1st, next years first, and a 3rd. Would you keep Mariota or take the trade.

[joewilly12]

I wonder if Mariota was there at 6, and Philly got on the phone and said, Foles, this years 1st, next years first, and a 3rd. Would you keep Mariota or take the trade.

Id make the deal

[PatsFanTX]

Well in 2010 we did beat them 2 out of 3 times and knocked them out of the playoffs so it can be done..

Seriously, something that happened 5 years ago???????

[pdxgreen]

   Did I miss something?  Don't draft Mariota?  When did we get so choosey.  He won't even be there with the sixth pick.

And if he is than Maccagnan jumps on him faster than flies on ___ .  He is worth the risk.  Every draft pick can tank.  But

the chance of having a winning QB.... you take that risk. 

[FidelioJet]

I cannot believe how overhyped he is.... and I hope to god that he isn't there at 6.  

 

 

In all honesty ask yourselves this: why did the Jets make it to back to back AFC championship games?  Because Sanchez had great surrounding players to work with.  It wasn't because Sanchez did it all himself.  

 

Is the goal to get to back to back AFC Championship games?

[Sperm Edwards]

I wonder if Mariota was there at 6, and Philly got on the phone and said, Foles, this years 1st, next years first, and a 3rd. Would you keep Mariota or take the trade.

A QB 1 year removed from a TD:INT ratio of 27:2, whose numbers tanked last year while he was playing hurt. Huge QB that can make any throw, who showed he can perform in a system clearly not tailored to his talent, whose HC is looking for a QB to fit his precious system better. 

 

Plus another 1st round pick this year.

Plus another 1st round pick next year.

Plus another 3rd rounder (this year or next year you didn't say).

- OR -

A QB who really should be holding a clipboard for the better part (or all) of his rookie season and then you see if he can be a moderately-reliable pocket passer at the pro level, or if he won't be a bust outright.

This can't be a serious question. If we get that offer we tell Kelly and Roseman we'll take it with no further negotiation before the acid wears off.

[GimmeShelter]

You cannot just assume that there's going to be some savior out there waiting to come to play on the Jets.  If you really believe that, then I'm sorry but you just don't know football and most likely have never played the game.  You need to build a team little by little, piece by piece.  

 

My point is that you can win games when you have a good team and no quarterback, but you can't win games when you don't have a good team, and a good quarterback.  

 

Cue the 2009-2010 seasons with Sanchez making it to AFC Championship games 

Our glaring over the top weaknesses last season besides QB were DB's , another WR and Head Coach.

 

All can be fixed in one off season so I see no reason to shy away from also trying to fix the QB position.

[Sperm Edwards]

what exactly is "elite level passing talent" in the NFL ?

 

I've seen many QB's with great arms and so called "elite level passing talent" sh*t the bed. I have also seen a QB with a moderate arm win 4 SB's .... problem with what your saying is Mariota does have a strong arm, it may not be elite but he can certainly make all the throws and that's all you can ask for. The question is how much work will these guys put in ? Winston ..I want no part of because I agree he will be trouble and that does not bode well for an NFL QB, it never has and never will. I can see Mariota putting in the work and busting his ass to become the best he can be and I would certainly be willing to take that chance on a guy who happens to be an elite athlete with the 6th pick in the draft. Ive seen him pass from the pocket and roll out and hes done well in both instances his work ethic is not in question.

 

if a guy like Joe Namath came out today 90 % of this board would balk ..the guy was a running QB at Alabama without all the hideous injuries he sustained he would have been in a few more SB's and he didn't get those injuries from running. Sure different era different game but Namath 'the running QB' was one of the true pioneers at turning the NFL into the passing league it started to become in the early 80's with the Montana's and Marino's paving the way

 

So you're worried about Winston but had no such worries about Manziel who's already in rehab 9 months after Cleveland drafted him?

 

I'm not gunning for Winston. I just think it's funny.

[Smashmouth]

So you're worried about Winston but had no such worries about Manziel who's already in rehab 9 months after Cleveland drafted him?

 

I'm not gunning for Winston. I just think it's funny.

Honestly Sperm Manziel seemed like a genuinely good kid having a bit too much fun in college I thought he would grow out of it, he didn't . Hopefully he gets his act together after his time in rehab and gets his head in the game, if he does not, he's just another idiot in a long line of Idiots that destroyed careers because they simply could not grow up.

 

[Jetsmanjb]

When Mariota sucks donkey dick in the NFL like he did in the national championship game, I hope you all remember what I told you.  Oregon didn't play any good teams during the regular season.  This guy f*cking sucks and he gets the Heisman ?  What a croc.   

 

 

Try to name a single Oregon offensive player who has gone on to be successful in the NFL ?  Kellen Clemens uhh no.   

[Jetsmanjb]

There's never been an offensive player from Oregon that has done well in the NFL 

[Smashmouth]

I see Dante Fowler Jr. or Landon Collins as great picks in the first round of this draft.  There is so much depth at WR that it makes sense to go defense in the first round.  And with that mentality, I think the O line can be addressed in free agency.  

 

There is simply no need to take a Quarterback- we have nothing to gain by doing so.  Winston won't be there at 6 and Geno is a better talent than Mariota.  

 

 

I totally agree but you can't afford to use 1st round picks on quarterbacks every single year.  In the last 5 years they used one on Sanchez and then a 39th pick on Geno.  If they use one here that's 3 QBs in the first two rounds in 6 years.   You need to build a team in the draft, you can't just take Quarterbacks.  

When Mariota sucks donkey dick in the NFL like he did in the national championship game, I hope you all remember what I told you.  Oregon didn't play any good teams during the regular season.  This guy f*cking sucks and he gets the Heisman ?  What a croc.   

 

 

Try to name a single Oregon offensive player who has gone on to be successful in the NFL ?  Kellen Clemens uhh no.   

 

First of all the Jets do not use first round picks "every year" on QB's so I'm not sure where the **** that came from. if your insinuating that's what people are asking for that's obviously a bad idea but I don't see anyone saying we need to spend a first round pick on a QB every year until we find one. Mid round picks ? yep I would do that if our situation stays as pitiful as it is now with Geno at the helm without a doubt. 

 

Secondly saying a player like Marcus Mariota sucks is a dumb statement. His team was out classed in the Nat'l Championship game and Mariota could have easily crumbled instead he threw for 333 yards and 2 TD's with a meaningless INT at the end, if not for a few critical drops early in the game we could have seen a much different outcome if Ohio State was playing from 14 to 21 points down which was very possible. He's 6-4 has very solid mechanics throwing the football and does throw the ball well from within the pocket or on the run. He gives you every option at the QB position and he does not make mistakes Like a Sanchez or a Geno Smith, he protects the football very well.

 

Also keep in mind every College QB has to learn the pro game and adjust to the speed, the big question is do they have the mindset to compete in the NFL and from watching how Mariota handles some tough situations it shows he has the Mental toughness to do very well in the NFL.

 

The Jets obviously do have needs at OLB CB WR AND OL but they are in no way as glaring the need at QB is, not even close...with 50 million to spend and some draft picks this team can get good very quickly if the right moves are made.

 

So if a QB like Mariota is available at 6 (which is doubtful) you take him in a heartbeat and still get to add a boat load of talented players due to our cap situation and the remaining picks.

 

Foles, flip flop this year's first, get the Eagles' 2016 first and two second rounders? You do this without even thinking about it. IMO, it's be insanely ballsy by Kelly. If Mariota isn't Gawd QB right away, Philly fans will lynch him.

Even though I like Mariota I like this scenario better. I like Foles a lot and he has proven he can play well at the NFL level the Question is can he stay on the field since we have nothing in the way of a back up unless we cut Geno and sign Matt Moore who would make a solid back up

[drdetroit]

Saw a mock last night on NFL network that had Winston going 10th to Rams. Had Jets taking Fowler. Mariota went#1 overall. Was by Charles Davis.

Yeah I saw that mock it was retarded

[drdetroit]

There's never been an offensive player from Oregon that has done well in the NFL

Kellen Clemens, Akili Smith and Joey Harrington have been really good.

[Jetsmanjb]

I agree with you on spending mid round picks on a QB is good- I'd prefer it.  

 

 

 

So if a QB like Mariota is available at 6 (which is doubtful) you take him in a heartbeat and still get to add a boat load of talented players due to our cap situation and the remaining picks.

 

Even though I like Mariota I like this scenario better. I like Foles a lot and he has proven he can play well at the NFL level the Question is can he stay on the field since we have nothing in the way of a back up unless we cut Geno and sign Matt Moore who would make a solid back up

 

 

 

But the Eagles would have to be roofied for this trade to happen...

[Smashmouth]

I agree with you on spending mid round picks on a QB is good- I'd prefer it.  

 

 

 

 

 

But the Eagles would have to be roofied for this trade to happen...

No matter what we think its all about what Chip Kelly thinks and the rumors say he loves Mariota. The thing that got me was how smart Kelly says Mariota is ...If he really is that smart and has all those tools to go along with it and the size he could be special

[pdxgreen]

   Just curious.  When do we draft a quarterback?  Geno has turned out well.

[BRONX DUDE]

Don't want either f the top 2 guys.

 

Fine if we snag a mid-rounder to develop.

 

1. Veteran JAG

2. Draft Pick (3rd/4th) Big, Tall, Big Arm pocket passer (the kind no one seems to want in the trendy running QB era).

3. Geno Smith or a Bag of Rotting Footballs, either one is fine./;

  Footballs baby footballs