Judge Nullifies Brady's suspension

[56mehl56]

You seen Brady throw a properly inflated football. The 2nd half of the AFC championship and the superbowl. 

 

I'm sure there's plenty other games...but we know guys don't wanna believe that. 

Law of averages. With all things ( fairness) being equal fumbles will go up and Brady's completion % will go down. Of course I wouldn't doubt the Pats find creative new ways of cheating its in their DNA. 

[Jetdawgg]

Jarrett playing well on ST

[JetPotato]

IMO, that's where you're missing it.  You can say Brady broke a rule, but can't prove it.  "Generally aware" is just not going to cut it. 

If the NFL had anyone who came out and said "Yeah I doctored the balls" or "Tom asked me to deflate the balls", we would not have had an issue.  Instead, the friggin' idiot Goodell let fly with a ridiculous penalty for Brady with no evidence to back it up.  Like him or not, a four game ban was a ridiculous decision by Goodell.

 

you must be missing the fact that the league has all the circumstantial evidence it needs, and were not given the opportunity to talk to the balls boys or view a phone that was conveniently destroyed to get anything more than that. 

[JetPotato]

But there's no rule against that in the CBA.  THAT is the problem.

The NFL is run by a bunch of dumbasses.  THAT is the problem.

Again, untrue. It's not in the CBA, but league rules were broken and he was an accomplice to that

[Jared]

Pats fan here.  I don't post often (and rarely during the offseason, which the preseason counts as).  Additionally, I am an attorney, though I do not practice labor law.

 

Ultimately this came down to whether the NFL's kangaroo court and ad hoc procedures ran afoul of law of the shop/fairness/notice rules.  Berman says they do.  The NFL can (and should) appeal.  I skimmed the opinion, and didn't see anything that appeared crazy to me, so assuming Berman and his law clerks (law clerks are usually recently graduated law students who are top of their class at their respective schools, especially in a location like the Southern District of New York) did their job right and didn't miss any applicable case law, I don't see a reason why this should be overturned.

 

It basically is saying you can't punish an employee* for something you never punish anyone else for, or that they are unaware they can be punished for, and if you do, you need to give them adequate chance to have a fair hearing.

 

* This is important.  We talk a lot about players and wins and losses, but ultimately Brady, like Rice, Feeley, the Saints players, etc, are employees being punished by their employer.  This case (and any appeals) are WAY MORE IMPORTANT than wins and losses on a football field, if you care about employees having any rights in disputes with their employers.

 

You can form your own opinion as to whether you think anyone actually deflated footballs, and if they did, whether Brady was involved.  Clearly regional biases will come into play.  But that isn't what this case was about.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Jared
typo

[Bugg]

That was mainly because Gene Upshaw was a whuss as union head and in Tags' pocket.  The NFLPA has been taking Goodell to the woodshed for quite awhile.

 This ruling basically says DeMaurice Smith is a moron for negotiating his union membership into such a one-sided process. 

[Ex-Rex]

Anyone that thinks Brady has been vindicated by this ruling doesn't know what the word means. In NO WAY has he been vindicated. He found a loophole and a sympathetic judge and he used it. In truth the commissioner really didn't have the power to suspend Brady for what is a fineable offense. Giselle is leaving him, the stench of this will be on him forever and the Patriots downhill slide will begin in earnest. He is 38 years old and his arm is not what it used to be (or his o-line) and they are running out of ways to cheat, so don't think Tommy boy has been "vindicated" by any stretch.

[Ex-Rex]

You can form your own opinion as to whether you think anyone actually deflated footballs, and if they did, whether Brady was involved.  Clearly regional biases will come into play.  But that isn't what this case was about.

Clearly football's were deflated and the refs caught them being under inflated. Brady HAD TO KNOW but the NFL made too big a deal of this and it has dragged on to the point of absurdity. I am not a fan of Roger Goodell and I hope a new commissioner will be brought in soon. He lost his top supporter in Kraft with all of this. Goodell is on a slippery slope indeed and I hope he slides right off.

[SMC]

Again, untrue. It's not in the CBA, but league rules were broken and he was an accomplice to that

But being "generally aware" of a rule violation is not in itself a rule violation.

Again, Brady wasn't suspended for deflating game balls. He was suspended for being generally aware of the deflation, which itself is not a rule violation. That's why Goodell went the personal conduct policy route which he can no longer do.

[JetPotato]

Pats fan here.  I don't post often (and rarely during the offseason, which the preseason counts as).  Additionally, I am an attorney, though I do not practice labor law.

 

Ultimately this came down to whether the NFL's kangaroo court and ad hoc procedures ran afoul of law of the shop/fairness/notice rules.  Berman says they do.  The NFL can (and should) appeal.  I skimmed the opinion, and didn't see anything that appeared crazy to me, so assuming Berman and his law clerks (law clerks are usually recently graduated law students who are top of their class at their respective schools, especially in a location like the Southern District of New York) did their job right and didn't miss any applicable case law, I don't see a reason why this should be overturned.

 

It basically is saying you can't punish an employee* for something you never punish anyone else for, or that they are unaware they can be punished for, and if you do, you need to give them adequate chance to have a fair hearing.

 

* This is important.  We talk a lot about players and wins and losses, but ultimately Brady, like Rice, Feeley, the Saints players, etc, are employees being punished by their employer.  This case (and any appeals) are WAY MORE IMPORTANT than wins and losses on a football field, if you care about employees having any rights in disputes with their employers.

 

You can form your own opinion as to whether you think anyone actually deflated footballs, and if they did, whether Brady was involved.  Clearly regional biases will come into play.  But that isn't what this case was about.

The judge stated that he accepted the findings of the arbitrator as fact.

How anyone can say with a straight face that Brady was unaware that he could be punished is beyond bizarre.

[jeaniec]

The truth of the matter is that Brady's attorney has a good rapport with the judge.  End of discussion.  Only good t hing out of this outrage is that we get to play Brady in our second game.  If we win,  we  (Buffalo Bills) won't have to hear that we won because Brady didn't play

[BRONX DUDE]

Oh yeah, that’s the stuff. Geno Smith is special in that he can **** up ANY play: basic handoffs, dump passes, quick counts … I don’t even trust him when the DEFENSE is on the field. When the Jets are on defense, I fully expect Geno to distract them by accidentally tripping over the stadium circuit breaker, thus allowing a 98-yard touchdown." -Drew Magary

 

 

Nailed it !!!

[JetPotato]

Ugh the mobile version of this site blows. 

The judge accepted the arbitrator's decision as fact. The idea that Brady was unaware he could be punished is the most absurd thing I've heard all day. It's the reason he lied about knowing "the deflator " and why he destroyed his phone 

[Jared]

Having some nested quote issues here.

 

I take a stronger position.  I personally believe not deflation occurred.  To make the conclusion that it did, you have to ignore Walt Anderson's recollection as to which gauge he used.  If you believe Walt, then the measurements at halftime nearly exactly match what you would expect them to be given the temperature difference.  Everyone wants to conveniently ignore that the Colts balls were 3 of 4 "underinflated" at halftime, despite their preference being for even higher PSI than Brady has claimed to prefer.

 

Ultimately the NFL clearly never cared about footballs prior to this incident.  (See: Jay Feeley, Panthers/Vikings, Aaron Rodgers, Brad Johnson)  They had no idea how the science worked.  (See: Troy Vincent's statements)   They did not have any procedure for recording pressures, etc.  Someone (whether officially or unofficially) wanted to catch the Patriots doing something that they may or may not have been doing, and did a terrible job of doing so.

 

Note: I am not saying that they are 100% innocent.  I am saying that the evidence as it currently exists doesn't prove they are guilty.  Anyone conclusively saying otherwise is just projecting their own desires and opinions.  Anyone claiming otherwise is being willfully ignorant.

 

That being said, whether or not you believe ball tampering occurred, or whether you believe Brady was involved, or whether you believe that had any impact on the team's success for the past 15 years has NOTHING to do with today's ruling.

[afosomf]

 

Having some nested quote issues here.

 

I take a stronger position.  I personally believe not deflation occurred.  To make the conclusion that it did, you have to ignore Walt Anderson's recollection as to which gauge he used.  If you believe Walt, then the measurements at halftime nearly exactly match what you would expect them to be given the temperature difference.  Everyone wants to conveniently ignore that the Colts balls were 3 of 4 "underinflated" at halftime, despite their preference being for even higher PSI than Brady has claimed to prefer.

 

Ultimately the NFL clearly never cared about footballs prior to this incident.  (See: Jay Feeley, Panthers/Vikings, Aaron Rodgers, Brad Johnson)  They had no idea how the science worked.  (See: Troy Vincent's statements)   They did not have any procedure for recording pressures, etc.  Someone (whether officially or unofficially) wanted to catch the Patriots doing something that they may or may not have been doing, and did a terrible job of doing so.

 

Note: I am not saying that they are 100% innocent.  I am saying that the evidence as it currently exists doesn't prove they are guilty.  Anyone conclusively saying otherwise is just projecting their own desires and opinions.  Anyone claiming otherwise is being willfully ignorant.

 

That being said, whether or not you believe ball tampering occurred, or whether you believe Brady was involved, or whether you believe that had any impact on the team's success for the past 15 years has NOTHING to do with today's ruling.

Seriously LMAO

 

Brady Lied, all the truth wizards agree, he destroys evidence and gets off scot free. If this was Scam Newton, he gets suspended 8 games.

Deflating balls in inclement weather is cheating mon and Brady has stated many times he likes a deflated ball.

 

[Jared]

Seriously LMAO

 

Brady Lied, all the truth wizards agree, he destroys evidence and gets off scot free. If this was Scam Newton, he gets suspended 8 games.

Deflating balls in inclement weather is cheating mon and Brady has stated many times he likes a deflated ball.

 

"Truth wizards"?

 

Ok. 

[afosomf]

"Truth wizards"?

 

Ok. 

Truth wizards can tell when a person lies

If Brady was innocent, he would have done everything to clear his name, lie detectors....instead he destroys evidence...what a role model he is mon

 

[Jared]

I suppose the complete lack of actual evidence won't suffice for your wizardry.  In that case, there is no point to furthering the discussion.

[Larz]

 

Having some nested quote issues here.

 

I take a stronger position.  I personally believe not deflation occurred.  To make the conclusion that it did, you have to ignore Walt Anderson's recollection as to which gauge he used.  If you believe Walt, then the measurements at halftime nearly exactly match what you would expect them to be given the temperature difference.  Everyone wants to conveniently ignore that the Colts balls were 3 of 4 "underinflated" at halftime, despite their preference being for even higher PSI than Brady has claimed to prefer.

 

Ultimately the NFL clearly never cared about footballs prior to this incident.  (See: Jay Feeley, Panthers/Vikings, Aaron Rodgers, Brad Johnson)  They had no idea how the science worked.  (See: Troy Vincent's statements)   They did not have any procedure for recording pressures, etc.  Someone (whether officially or unofficially) wanted to catch the Patriots doing something that they may or may not have been doing, and did a terrible job of doing so.

 

Note: I am not saying that they are 100% innocent.  I am saying that the evidence as it currently exists doesn't prove they are guilty.  Anyone conclusively saying otherwise is just projecting their own desires and opinions.  Anyone claiming otherwise is being willfully ignorant.

 

That being said, whether or not you believe ball tampering occurred, or whether you believe Brady was involved, or whether you believe that had any impact on the team's success for the past 15 years has NOTHING to do with today's ruling.

Patriots Ball Blakeman Prioleau
1 11.50 11.80
2 10.85 11.20
3 11.15 11.50
4 10.70 11.00
5 11.10 11.45
6 11.60 11.95
7 11.85 12.30
8 11.10 11.55
9 10.95 11.35
10 10.50 10.90
11 10.90 11.35
Colts Ball Blakeman Prioleau
1 12.70 12.35
2 12.75 12.30
3 12.50 12.95
4 12.55 12.15
 

if you look at the colts PSI's, its obvious they were prepared professionally by someone who is following the rules

if you look at the pats* PSI', it's obvious the reason that dude left the officials room early and ducked into a locked bathroom was to hastily stick a needle in them.  Only a fanboy with no credibility would disagree with this.  

the question becomes, do you really think an equipment dude would do this on his own ?  then why did he demand autographed goods from brady in exchange ?

don't forget we actually know the facts around here

[Cyberjet]

Nice retort. Help me out here - there is a report on Boston radio that Craig Mortensen was misled  regarding the Patriots footballs but this says otherwise. 

[Larz]

Nice retort. Help me out here - there is a report on Boston radio that Craig Mortensen was misled  regarding the Patriots footballs but this says otherwise. 

do you mean the infamous "11 out of 12" reports ?     this report seems to indicate they only tested 11, maybe that is where the confusion came from

[Cyberjet]

The Patriots imho did not directly deflate the footballs. There was a report (which I can't find now) that the Patriots prepare each football by incessantly rubbing each football for up to two hours! They do this up to the time the refs measure the football. This increased friction heats up the inner air  -  the Patriots instruct the refs or set the pressure to 12.5. By game time the inner air has cooled with a resultant drop in psi. Classic Patriots following "the rules" but also skirting the spirit and intention of the rule.

[Cyberjet]

do you mean the infamous "11 out of 12" reports ?     this report seems to indicate they only tested 11, maybe that is where the confusion came from

es exactly - what are the facts.

[ghost_in_pads02]

Nice retort. Help me out here - there is a report on Boston radio that Craig Mortensen was misled  regarding the Patriots footballs but this says otherwise. 

Who the hell is craig? I know a chris. But never heard of a craig.

And the NFL along w Chris Mortensen put out b.s. report about the exact numbers of the psi levels.

took c.mortensen months to finally come out n admit he and the nfl were wrong about that report.

Edited September 4, 2015 by ghost_in_pads02

[Larz]

The Patriots imho did not directly deflate the footballs. There was a report (which I can't find now) that the Patriots prepare each football by incessantly rubbing each football for up to two hours! They do this up to the time the refs measure the football. This increased friction heats up the inner air  -  the Patriots instruct the refs or set the pressure to 12.5. By game time the inner air has cooled with a resultant drop in psi. Classic Patriots following "the rules" but also skirting the spirit and intention of the rule.

nah

the guy who calls himself "the deflator" who asked for autographed goods from brady who left the officials room early and locked himself in a bathroom did it.  mcnally I think his name was.  this is the guy brady texted "you good bro?" the day after the news broke.  this is the guy who texted "I may go to ESPN" as well

they are liars and cheats

[Larz]

Who the hell is craig? I know a chris. But never heard of a craig.

hahaha noob

do you shave yet ?

[Cyberjet]

nah

the guy who calls himself "the deflator" who asked for autographed goods from brady who left the officials room early and locked himself in a bathroom did it.  mcnally I think his name was.  this is the guy brady texted "you good bro?" the day after the news broke.  this is the guy who texted "I may go to ESPN" as well

they are liars and cheats

hear you - just feel it's a bit crude and obvious given all those 'brainchilds" they have over there.

[ghost_in_pads02]

hahaha noob

do you shave yet ?

why, you plan on buying me a gift?

[Larz]

why, you plan on buying me a gift?

google it and you will see what happened.  have you figured out who the dude in slats' avatar is yet ?

 

lol

[Cyberjet]

Seriously what was the relationship of that "lie" that was leaked by the NFL to Mortensen otherwise known as Chris compared to the info you listed?

[maury77]

 

Having some nested quote issues here.

 

I take a stronger position.  I personally believe not deflation occurred.  To make the conclusion that it did, you have to ignore Walt Anderson's recollection as to which gauge he used.  If you believe Walt, then the measurements at halftime nearly exactly match what you would expect them to be given the temperature difference.  Everyone wants to conveniently ignore that the Colts balls were 3 of 4 "underinflated" at halftime, despite their preference being for even higher PSI than Brady has claimed to prefer.

 

Ultimately the NFL clearly never cared about footballs prior to this incident.  (See: Jay Feeley, Panthers/Vikings, Aaron Rodgers, Brad Johnson)  They had no idea how the science worked.  (See: Troy Vincent's statements)   They did not have any procedure for recording pressures, etc.  Someone (whether officially or unofficially) wanted to catch the Patriots doing something that they may or may not have been doing, and did a terrible job of doing so.

 

Note: I am not saying that they are 100% innocent.  I am saying that the evidence as it currently exists doesn't prove they are guilty.  Anyone conclusively saying otherwise is just projecting their own desires and opinions.  Anyone claiming otherwise is being willfully ignorant.

 

That being said, whether or not you believe ball tampering occurred, or whether you believe Brady was involved, or whether you believe that had any impact on the team's success for the past 15 years has NOTHING to do with today's ruling.

So why didn't the Colt's balls have the same discrepancy in PSI? You are also lying about no once caring about inflating the footballs as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady were part of the initiative that persuaded the league to allow the teams to inflate their own balls. The reason their isn't a history of other teams being investigated for playing with the inflation of balls is because (surprisingly) the Patriots were the first team to be accused of it. 

Saying the evidence as it currently exists is also another joke because your quarterback destroyed evidence. Since you are an attorney, I'm pretty sure you know what a adverse inference is, why can't we apply a adverse inference to Brady? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_inference.  

[ghost_in_pads02]

google it and you will see what happened.  have you figured out who the dude in slats' avatar is yet ?

 

lol

how about you just tell me and say i googled it. And i never asked about anyones avatar or honestly never cared to know.

[Larz]

Seriously what was the relationship of that "lie" that was leaked by the NFL to Mortensen otherwise known as Chris compared to the info you listed?

mort was told 11 out of 12 balls were underinflated.  it was a leak that came out months before the wells report.  it looks like only 11 balls were even tested.  I can only imagine the pats* are in full on punish the media mode now and are going after mort for having the gall to write anything critical of the regime. don't forget teh pats* officially claimed a sting operation was carried out and a smear campaign

I don't see why, all 11 balls were seriously underinflated

[ghost_in_pads02]

Seriously what was the relationship of that "lie" that was leaked by the NFL to Mortensen otherwise known as Chris compared to the info you listed?

contradicting what i just posted. Google the chain events homey.

[ghost_in_pads02]

mort was told 11 out of 12 balls were underinflated.  it was a leak that came out months before the wells report.  it looks like only 11 balls were even tested.  I can only imagine the pats* are in full on punish the media mode now and are going after mort for having the gall to write anything critical of the regime. don't forget teh pats* officially claimed a sting operation was carried out and a smear campaign

I don't see why, all 11 balls were seriously underinflated

nope! After hiding from his blunder for months, he has already come out weeks ago and admitted he was wrong and apologized.

Edited September 4, 2015 by ghost_in_pads02