Shopping Mo ?

[Savage69]

Just now, Irish Jet said:

And that might be exactly what scares teams.

A broken leg for a lineman isn't in the same area of concern as a Knee is for a CB..

[Irish Jet]

14 hours ago, Savage69 said:

A broken leg for a lineman isn't in the same area of concern as a Knee is for a CB..

I'd agree but then you have the contract and the sacrificed picks that go with it. I think he's a sure thing but I could see why some teams would hesitate to give up as much as it would take. Everyone's looking for the great deal and they may be waiting for us to lower our demands, which we might even do. The Kaep situation has been similar with a worse player in a higher value position. 

I am shocked we haven't heard more about teams being interested but I also expect we will hear something in the next four weeks. I hope we don't. Unless it's an insane offer. 

 

[Jet Nut]

24 minutes ago, jett said:

Ok... So sign Wilk and say goodbye to Fitz.. We now have no quarterback this year... So... What's more important.. Qb? Or DE where we have plenty of depth. I mean come on people. Qb is way more important and like Fitz or not he's our best option. Not at 16 mil but he's our best option. 

 

Now if you said the goal is to tank this season and get a franchise qb next year, that's a different story. But if you want to be competitive this year, you can't sign Wilk. 

Say goodbye to Fitz.  I'd rather have Mo for 15 mil and a Glennon at QB than the other way around.  

Like it or not Fitz isn't the only option for us at QB.  

[ZachEY]

43 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If we didn't burn all that cash on Revis, we're not even having this conversation. 

You mean, 16 mill for a guy who's skills are slipping and gives 0 ****s anymore isn't helping us?

[ZachEY]

29 minutes ago, jett said:

Ok... So sign Wilk and say goodbye to Fitz.. We now have no quarterback this year... So... What's more important.. Qb? Or DE where we have plenty of depth. I mean come on people. Qb is way more important and like Fitz or not he's our best option. Not at 16 mil but he's our best option. 

 

Now if you said the goal is to tank this season and get a franchise qb next year, that's a different story. But if you want to be competitive this year, you can't sign Wilk. 

This can't be a real argument.  The whole point we're dragging our feet on Fitz is because we want a long term better option.  You don't lose one of your best players for an average QB that, if he's starting in 2017, is a disaster.

[jack48]

3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Ridiculous.

He's probably the second best defensive lineman in the league and he absolutely makes QB's worry - Getting hit by him isn't fun and he's very consistent. We were in top 5 in term of pressuring QB's with Mo being the key guy. That shocks a lot of people here because people only focus on the times where the QB actually makes a mistake when giving credit. No one notices when the opposing QB makes a great play under pressure, everyone notices the plays where there's no pressure. Hence lack of pass rush is the most common complaint around the league. Brady played one of the best QB games I've ever seen in the loss against us last season and his stats were mediocre.

I'd argue he's the most important player in the team and while we are very fortunate to have two studs on the line regardless, we'll notice his absence for sure. I think we'll have the best line in the league next season if they're playing together because they're all getting better. 

Speed Rushers are more overrated than a guy like Mo. He's invaluable. 

Mo is a great player.  But the positions hat he plays does not warrant what he is asking.  He will not come down. We should not go up.

[jett]

9 minutes ago, gEYno said:

This can't be a real argument.  The whole point we're dragging our feet on Fitz is because we want a long term better option.  You don't lose one of your best players for an average QB that, if he's starting in 2017, is a disaster.

It is a real argument.  Any other qb put in will result in a losing record for 16. I want to compete. Fitz helps make us competitive. He threw  31 tds not by mistake. He has good chemistry with the team and people want him back. Hopefully not for too many years and less than 10 mill a year. He's a good bridge to a guy we draft in this year's draft or next. 

[jack48]

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Games are won and lost in the trenches, but paying Mo Wilkerson 100 million dollars over 6 years is insanity. Paying a player 16-18 million dollars a year means that he's elite. It means that you single handedly wreck games of your opponents. Mo Wilkerson has never been that. 

Jets fans tend to be extreme with their players, either over or undervaluing them depending on the circumstance. Some think that we should get a deal for Wilk similar to what we got for Revis (1st and 4th round picks) though at the time we thought that we should have gotten two 1st round picks for Revis. Atleast in the case of Revis he was the absolute best in the game during his prime, making WR's in their primes, no matter their name, totally irrelevant. Revis totally wrecked offensive passing schemes because he could play anywhere so you couldnt even move your #1 around the field to avoid him (like how they do against Sherman). I've said it before and I'll have to say it again. I cannot ever remember coming away from a game and saying to myself "Mo Wilkerson completely wrecked that team for 60 minutes". You can say that about JJ Watt just about every year, 3 of the last 4 years you could say that about Robert Quinn. 

Mo Wilkerson is a very good DE and is one of the best but he's not a game changer. You pay that type of money to "game changing" talent, especially when you already have his replacement on the team and he plays a position where you have the deepest talent. There's simply no reason to pay Mo Wilkerson 100+ million dollars for 6 years. You'll keep a very good DE that isnt a game changer meanwhile you'll lose 1, maybe 2 of your younger Dlinemen simply because you cant afford them. 

And no, we will not be getting a 1st and a 4th for Mo. I strongly believe that we wont even get a 1st. We'd be lucky if we got a 2nd or a 3rd & 4th together. Mo Wilkerson is a very good, very consistent player, but he's not a game changer and he has never single handedly taken over a football game and basically got a win because of his contribution directly. 

Trade him, which is something we should have done last season...we potentially could have received a 1st last year given the fact that he was still under contract. 

we will probably get a 2nd.  Hopefully a higher 2nd.  DLs just do not merit those kinds of guarantees.  He finally got some sacks this year but he is not a pure pass rush guy.  A pure pass rusher is far more valuable.  Paying corners and DLs ridiculous money is a formula for disaster.  You pay offensive left tackles, pure pass rushers, and franchise or close to franchise QBs.  I say "close to" because the QB talent level seems to be diminishing some.

[jett]

16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Say goodbye to Fitz.  I'd rather have Mo for 15 mil and a Glennon at QB than the other way around.  

Like it or not Fitz isn't the only option for us at QB.  

Ok let me correct myself. Fitz is the only good option for this team. If Glennon comes in we trade a 2nd or a 3rd for this guy and he plays poorly. No doubt. He would need a year or 2 to find himself which I'd rather do on a rookie. 

[joewilly12]

The New York Post reports the Jets are still shopping franchise-tagged DE Muhammad Wilkerson.

It conflicts with comments from GM Mike Maccagnan, who said he wasn't actively pursuing a trade for Wilkerson. The Jets are reportedly only offering Wilkerson below-market deals and "have barely spoken to his representatives." Wilkerson's $15.7 million tender makes him next to impossible to trade, but there's an outside chance he'll be moved leading up to the draft.

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, jett said:

I'm betting that the Jets and TB are putting the finishing touches on a trade, Mo for Glennon.  Only thing holding it up is the draft pick coming back our way.  Ill be dancing with @villain the foe 

There is no reason to think a QB with 3 or 4 years experience, with OTAs, full camp and preseason would need a year or two.  

Didnt take Fitz 2 years.

[jack48]

2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

+1 The use of the word great or elite is really overused by fans.. If Mo is great or elite what is Watt or Von Miller?? Mo is a very good player who started to shine when Snacks and Sheldon were added to the team in 2013..In his first 2 years playing part time Coples had more sacks then Mo and as some Jet fans say he sucked..LOL I like Mo and wish he could have been signed long term but his asking price as some are now starting to realize is way beyond his value to the team in Mac's eye's.. I still wonder if before Mac signed Revis if Mo turned down a similar offer but wanted a Suh contract with 60 million guaranteed??

 

If no one around the league wants Mo at 16 mil---why would we want to give him more?  GMs do not want to trade real good players.  What kills a team is overpaying.  I like Mo too. He probably has to go.

[southparkcpa]

16 minutes ago, jett said:

Ok let me correct myself. Fitz is the only good option for this team. If Glennon comes in we trade a 2nd or a 3rd for this guy and he plays poorly. No doubt. He would need a year or 2 to find himself which I'd rather do on a rookie. 

Why a year or 2?   hes already started quite a few games and is in the league a few years?

Fitz does nothing for this team except get us a draft pick middle of the pack.  He has shown he chokes under pressure and has NEVER seen a playoff game.

Id trade Mo for Glennon and say a 2nd rounder.

 

 

[Beerfish]

Mo has had one near elite season, that being last, he was good to very good before but not elite.  The fact that we currently have depth on dline works against him and though it makes the most sense to keep your best players being in a bit of a cap pickle means he is one legit option to go.  I'd rather keep him but it my a not play out that way,  Also the fitz vs mo thing is only a very short term fix.  Eventually we are going to have to pay a QB big dollars.

 

The worst contract and problem on this team is Revis.  I still like him but what we got last year, injury excuse or not was not worth his contract at all.  He not only didn't shut down two high profile wrs last year he got owned and it contributed to those loses.  He had better come back and have a great year this year or that contract will look even worse.

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Mo has had one near elite season, that being last, he was good to very good before but not elite.  The fact that we currently have depth on dline works against him and though it makes the most sense to keep your best players being in a bit of a cap pickle means he is one legit option to go.  I'd rather keep him but it my a not play out that way,  Also the fitz vs mo thing is only a very short term fix.  Eventually we are going to have to pay a QB big dollars.

 

The worst contract and problem on this team is Revis.  I still like him but what we got last year, injury excuse or not was not worth his contract at all.  He not only didn't shut down two high profile wrs last year he got owned and it contributed to those loses.  He had better come back and have a great year this year or that contract will look even worse.

1 player Revis is not killing this teams salary cap.....look at the entire roster and rethink your position on this. 

[section314]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

1 player Revis is not killing this teams salary cap.....look at the entire roster and rethink your position on this. 

It's all guaranteed. It is definitely killing us.

[shuler82]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

It's all guaranteed. It is definitely killing us.

 

Nah. Paying top dollar to top players isn't the problem. 

What's killing us is that we have no one on our roster that the team is comfortable starting at LT in replace of Brick and his potential $9M of savings. What's killing us is that our drafts have been so piss poor that our roster is made up of vets making millions, and not young players on  cheap rookie 5 year deals. 

[jett]

22 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Why a year or 2?   hes already started quite a few games and is in the league a few years?

Fitz does nothing for this team except get us a draft pick middle of the pack.  He has shown he chokes under pressure and has NEVER seen a playoff game.

Id trade Mo for Glennon and say a 2nd rounder.

 

 

He's gotta learn the playbook and he hasn't proven that he can just step right in and be the guy. He was average at Tampa.  Also wilk for Glennon and a 2nd?

 

We might not even get a 2nd for Wilk. And bucs want a lot for Glennon 

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, section314 said:

It's all guaranteed. It is definitely killing us.

No its really not.

[Beerfish]

13 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

1 player Revis is not killing this teams salary cap.....look at the entire roster and rethink your position on this. 

So giving Fitz 15 million a year should be no problem right?  When you look at contracts you don't look at a number, you look at pay vs performance.  Revis is paid like the best cb in the league, he was far from it last year.  You get in trouble by paying elite money for non elite pay.  That concept might confuse you.

[Beerfish]

6 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

 

Nah. Paying top dollar to top players isn't the problem. 

What's killing us is that we have no one on our roster that the team is comfortable starting at LT in replace of Brick and his potential $9M of savings. What's killing us is that our drafts have been so piss poor that our roster is made up of vets making millions, and not young players on  cheap rookie 5 year deals. 

Revis was not a top player last year.  People like to point out Dbricks decline but revis was nothing like the old revis island revis of the past last year.  He got abused badly in at least two games and was a big part of those loses. 

[Mike135]

The organization believes that Sheldon Richardson, who is awaiting whether he’ll be suspended for his off-field transgression last year, is the more valuable piece to the puzzle. That belief is shared by virtually every NFL talent evaluator (GMs, scouts, etc), who I’ve spoken to in the past year.

Wilkerson is a quality player, for sure, but Richardson is the more versatile and athletic one. So, the notion that Wilkerson is the best defensive player on the roster is comical. He’s not. It’s Richardson.

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mehta-jets-mailbag-mo-wilkerson-desire-traded-article-1.2583900

[southparkcpa]

7 minutes ago, jett said:

He's gotta learn the playbook and he hasn't proven that he can just step right in and be the guy. He was average at Tampa.  Also wilk for Glennon and a 2nd?

 

We might not even get a 2nd for Wilk. And bucs want a lot for Glennon 

We'll find out perhaps but I think Glennon can step right in.  Jeez...Geno won 8 games as a rookie with zero talent around him.

[Joe Jets fan]

Tom brought it up first but of course was only slightly touched on by Irish Jet,

If Mo is so great why are teams not banging down the Jets door offering numerous picks and a new contract to get him?   Why do posters here think they know more then 31 GM's.

 

If JJ was offered 31 GM's would be blowing up phones making offers.  Why not so for Mo??

 

The market for Mo is not that great or a deal would have been done.

[shuler82]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Revis was not a top player last year.  People like to point out Dbricks decline but revis was nothing like the old revis island revis of the past last year.  He got abused badly in at least two games and was a big part of those loses. 

We were spoiled with Revis of 2009.. maybe the best performance by a DB in NFL history. 

Revis is a top player - a top player in a pass friendly league where the rules give the advantage to the WR. Every CB gets beat or has a bad game. Even the top ones

It's the same dumb argument I see here with Mo - 'he's not a top player' BS. He's a top 5 DL, no question. He's not flashy, but there are very few players better or on pair with the guy. 

[shuler82]

4 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

Tom brought it up first but of course was only slightly touched on by Irish Jet,

If Mo is so great why are teams not banging down the Jets door offering numerous picks and a new contract to get him?   Why do posters here think they know more then 31 GM's.

 

If JJ was offered 31 GM's would be blowing up phones making offers.  Why not so for Mo??

 

The market for Mo is not that great or a deal would have been done.

Maybe because giving away a 1st round pick and paying $16M to a DL is less ideal than signing a next tier DL without having to give up the draft pick? 

And you're right about Watts - but I don't think there's anyone here who'd compare the two players. 

[greenwichjetfan]

Nah I'm not a big shopper, by my fiance's deff been shoppin mo since the engagment. 

[Beerfish]

Just now, shuler82 said:

We were spoiled with Revis of 2009.. maybe the best performance by a DB in NFL history. 

Revis is a top player - a top player in a pass friendly league where the rules give the advantage to the WR. Every CB gets beat or has a bad game. Even the top ones

It's the same dumb argument I see here with Mo - 'he's not a top player' BS. He's a top 5 DL, no question. He's not flashy, but there are very few players better or on pair with the guy. 

Revis is still a good cb, no doubt about it.  Is he good enough to justify his contract and the constraints it puts of the team?   He is not paid like a good CB.  REvis is the top paid Cb in the whole league he is a bit ahead of patrick peterson but then there is a huge gap after that.  He is being paid as if he was the old revis that we were spoiled with not the now revis who has foibles.  When you pay a top player that kind of money you expect him to win games for you, in at least two game last year he totally failed to deliver.  Will he get better as he gets older? 

[joewilly12]

16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

So giving Fitz 15 million a year should be no problem right?  When you look at contracts you don't look at a number, you look at pay vs performance.  Revis is paid like the best cb in the league, he was far from it last year.  You get in trouble by paying elite money for non elite pay.  That concept might confuse you.

Fitzpatrick isn't worth that kind of money Revis top 3 CB in the NFL who has a Super Bowl ring Fitzpatrick 6 teams in 10 years soon to be 7 in 11 has never made the playoffs  NOT

[Beerfish]

17 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick isn't worth that kind of money Revis top 3 CB in the NFL who has a Super Bowl ring Fitzpatrick 6 teams in 10 years soon to be 7 in 11 has never made the playoffs  NOT

lol, as expected, you as usual, make a dumb post and then do a great job of totally destroying your own dumb comment.

[section314]

36 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

 

Nah. Paying top dollar to top players isn't the problem. 

What's killing us is that we have no one on our roster that the team is comfortable starting at LT in replace of Brick and his potential $9M of savings. What's killing us is that our drafts have been so piss poor that our roster is made up of vets making millions, and not young players on  cheap rookie 5 year deals. 

Totally agree with your final 2 points. Spot on. As far as the contract for Revis goes, the problem is since it's guaranteed, we have nowhere to go with it. He gets every penny for the next two years, regardless of his play. When you are in a situation where you are obligated to pay full freight for another two years to an obviously declining player, that is a killer.

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

lol, as expected, you as usual, make a dumb post and then do a great job of totally destroying your own dumb comment.

Not dumb FACTUAL only dummies don't understand.

 

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, The Engineer said:

Really? So is this how NE has been dominating this division for years? In most cases you keep a guy like Mo, but he is a powerful bargaining chip if you want to move up for a QB. I think there are 2 QB's that warrant that kind of move this year (prefer Goff). What makes him more expendable is the talent on the DLine. For the people who say he is the second best DL on this team, wake up. Watch the games. Its not even close, MO is elite. It sucks to have to give him up, but its been quite a few years since we had a chip we could use to take a shot at a franchise QB.

No. New England dominated by having arguably the greatest QB to ever play professional football". You know, a "game changer". A guy who you can put in and with no running game or no offensive line you can still win the division and compete for a championship.

Also, I think you used the wrong team. Just a week or two ago NE traded away Probowl DE Chandler Jones (a young talented DE that has registered 30 sacks combined the past 3 years) for a second round pick and a offensive lineman in order to help protect the "game changing" QB that they have. 

With that said, Mo Wilkerson isnt elite. He's a freak, especially for his size (315lbs) but he's not elite. He may be the best DL on this team, you can make the argument, you could make the argument of Sheldon. Both will have their reasons, but for argument sake, lets say Mo is the best on this team...he's still just a very good QB who does not deserve to get paid JJ Watt money. 

Thats where I draw the line. You trade Mo Wilkerson because you have the depth to get through it. If we were fragile at the position then I could understand. But when you draft the BPA then its to be expected that you cannot keep all the talent when you stack up at the same position. 

No one is saying that Mo is bad, or good. The man is a top 3 3-4 DE, but he's not a game changer. Game changers are what separates the very good Mo Wilkerson's to the Elite JJ Watts. Trade him...period. Leonard WIlliams showed his rookie year that he's more than capable to fill that role for the next 4-5 seasons on a rookie deal. Get some draft picks, but if you want my opinion, trade Wilk for Glennon a 3rd rounder and call it a day. 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Not dumb FACTUAL only dummies don't understand.

 

You said one player is not killing our cap, then as usual had to back track when someone chose a player you don't actually like as an example of 'one player'.

[joewilly12]

Just now, Beerfish said:

You said one player is not killing our cap, then as usual had to back track when someone chose a player you don't actually like as an example of 'one player'.

1 players isn't killing our cap.......1 player can only play QB 

Do i need to draw with crayons for you to  understand.