Jets Tackles-Has it been managed correctly?

[varjet]

I think this needs its own thread.  

MacC inherited a difficult tackle situation, but in retrospect they should have swung harder to get another Tackle on the roster.  

Now, they are forced to make a desperate trade or potentially reach for a T in the draft, whereas the BPA could have been a QB, WR or even DT.

Everyone on this board new, particularly after the Brick/SI concussion article, that he could choose to retire rather than play for an inadequate amount of money.

I think in the big picture, this helps the Jets build for the future, but it does not help 2016.  They should try and get Clady or Thomas, and if they can't trade Mo, cut him, and save the cap space for next year, or potentially to extend Richardson.  I would think Richardson's contract could be "guaranteed" but for suspension.

 

 

[Stark]

Joe Thomas. 

 

Get on the phone Mac

[Scott Dierking]

"everyone on this board knew"? I don't think I saw one person mention that as a possibility.

It is very probable that the Jets knew this could be one of the eventualities, but there is little that they could do (this thing called cap space), until the ultimate decision was known.

[JoJoTownsell1]

39 minutes ago, varjet said:

I think this needs its own thread.  

MacC inherited a difficult tackle situation, but in retrospect they should have swung harder to get another Tackle on the roster.  

Now, they are forced to make a desperate trade or potentially reach for a T in the draft, whereas the BPA could have been a QB, WR or even DT.

Everyone on this board new, particularly after the Brick/SI concussion article, that he could choose to retire rather than play for an inadequate amount of money.

I think in the big picture, this helps the Jets build for the future, but it does not help 2016.  They should try and get Clady or Thomas, and if they can't trade Mo, cut him, and save the cap space for next year, or potentially to extend Richardson.  I would think Richardson's contract could be "guaranteed" but for suspension.

 

 

So a team with zero cap space should have spent more to lock up a starting tackle to back up the already overpaid Dbrick? Some of you act as if you are completely unaware of the salary cap. 

[PepPep]

Well, Mac was def. put into a difficult situation not knowing for sure whether D'Brick would retire.

I actually think he did the best he could with the information he had. He went hard after Beachem, but couldn't get him. And it doesn't make sense to offer Beachem a ridiculous amount of money just on the possibility of D'Brick retiring, especially with the lack of cap space. And I think we now know why Breno wasn't cut- b/c even though he's not great, he;s still an NFL starter and better than our other options.  

The Jets also scouted OTs very closely coming up to the draft. I think it was obvious regardless of the D'Brick situation that they were looking to address that position in the draft. Maybe the possibility of him retiring further drove that. I dunno. They seem to really like Decker- OT (OSU) and have been looking at him closely. He should be there at 20 and I don't think it would nec. be a reach, he needs to work on some things with his technique but has immense upside and is already a great run blocker, which is key for the Jets who like to rely on a solid run game. 

Mac still has some options. Putting the additional 9mil in cap space aside, I still think a Wilk trade will happen on draft day. Now that D'Brick is retired, its possible the Jets move UP in the draft rather than taking a 2nd rounder to ensure that they get a blue chip OT prospect. For example, if a Bears trade (rumored) goes through, they might be able to move up to 11 and get Stanley. Call me crazy, but this opens up the UNLIKELY possibility of a Wilkerson trade that allows the Jets to move up to #1 via the Titans and take Tunsil. Unlikely, but possible. And there's always the possibility of the Jets trading Wilk for an OT, something they probably have not been looking into as much as they could have. Not sure that the Browns would give up Joe Thomas. Getting Joe Thomas for Wilk would be a Jet fans wet dream. I would absolutely love it. But I HIGHLY doubt the Brown will do it unless the Jets are ready to give them a really great offer. I'm talking Wilk and their 1st round pick. Or Wilk a 2nd and 3rd (which I would do, but Mac would not). Remember, Thomas, like D'Brick has never missed a snap and is perennial All Pro.   

So, I guess my point is that A) The Jets have been trying to trade Wilk anyway,  and B.) The Jets have been looking to draft an OT early anyway. So I don't see this leading to any kind of desperation moves. But CERTAINLY there is a hole at LT that will be hard to fill and it will take time to recover from losing D'Brick- which is true whenever a great player retires earlier than expected (32yrs old- never injured).        

[drsamuel84]

We need more picks!  Seriously, the answer isn't in free agency especially at this point with most of the  better guys already signed.  I think flipping Mo Wilk for more picks is vital now that we have a hole at LT, a hole at QB, multiples holes at LB, the need to get younger at the CB position, and the need to get younger on the O-Line.  This team was mismanaged for years with bad drafting Macc was able to put a band-aid on that issue last season due to all the cap space but ultimately the only way this team is going to become a consistent contender is through the draft which means MORE PICKS.  

[Paradis]

Is just Jet fans, or it is all franchise fans?.... the hysteria?

 

There's a solution already in the works... just calm down. It was handled perfectly well. No knee jerk reactions. Waited for Brick to decide. have the solutions already in place... it's all good. 

[shuler82]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Is just Jet fans, or it is all franchise fans?.... the hysteria?

 

There's a solution already in the works... just calm down. It was handled perfectly well. No knee jerk reactions. Waited for Brick to decide. have the solutions already in place... it's all good. 

Seriously.. when hasn't Mac had a plan? Let the dust settle. It's only April. We'll have a LT in place soon enough

[Savage69]

20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Is just Jet fans, or it is all franchise fans?.... the hysteria?

 

There's a solution already in the works... just calm down. It was handled perfectly well. No knee jerk reactions. Waited for Brick to decide. have the solutions already in place... it's all good. 

But we have a game sunday don't we?? 

[varjet]

The data/statistics show that QBs, LTs and 4/3 DTs are the three positions that benefit most from being 1st round, if not high 1st round draft picks.   The Jets need 2 of the 3 and have a late/middle 1st round draft pick.

Even Taylor Decker was a coin-flip as to whether he could play LT in the NFL at a high level.  RT-much more likely.  Conklin would work, but he will likely be gone by 20.

So sign Fitz, pick the BPA in the 1st round and let him run around for $8mm/year behind Brent Qvale at LT.  If they can't find a draft pick to play LT before then, they will have the cap space next year to sign one.

[Villain The Foe]

This is exactly why I felt like we should have drafted Tackles the past 2 drafts. I wanted Ronnie Stanley last year until I realized he was staying in school then I felt like we should have drafted Andrus Peat. I had similar feelings the year prior. 

 

Instead we draft Leonard Williams when we have 2 probowl type DE's and the best NT in the league with one of the better backups in Douzable. 

 

I understand the whole "BPA" situation and how "drafting for need is never a good reason to draft", but at the same time it wasnt like it was a immediate need. We could have sat Peat this season and either cut Giacomini this year and replaced him or if Brick still retired keep Giacomini and put Peat at LT. 

[Mainejet]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

I think this needs its own thread.  

MacC inherited a difficult tackle situation, but in retrospect they should have swung harder to get another Tackle on the roster.  

Now, they are forced to make a desperate trade or potentially reach for a T in the draft, whereas the BPA could have been a QB, WR or even DT.

Everyone on this board new, particularly after the Brick/SI concussion article, that he could choose to retire rather than play for an inadequate amount of money.

I think in the big picture, this helps the Jets build for the future, but it does not help 2016.  They should try and get Clady or Thomas, and if they can't trade Mo, cut him, and save the cap space for next year, or potentially to extend Richardson.  I would think Richardson's contract could be "guaranteed" but for suspension.

 

 

NO. It was never handles correctly. I mean look at it. Since 2006, the Jets have only spent one first day pick on an OL and that guy was an incompetent retard. It's time for Mac to unf*ck this bad situation. Using FA to solve the problems is never the way to go if you can avoid it. The Jets need to learn how to draft better.

[pointman]

2 hours ago, varjet said:

Everyone on this board new, particularly after the Brick/SI concussion article, that he could choose to retire rather than play for an inadequate amount of money.

 

 

What? Not once did I read anyone say that, YOU included. 

 

And "inadequate amount of money"? A pay cut from his huge salary wouldn't be an "inadequate amount of money". 

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, drsamuel84 said:

We need more picks!  Seriously, the answer isn't in free agency especially at this point with most of the  better guys already signed.  I think flipping Mo Wilk for more picks is vital now that we have a hole at LT, a hole at QB, multiples holes at LB, the need to get younger at the CB position, and the need to get younger on the O-Line.  This team was mismanaged for years with bad drafting Macc was able to put a band-aid on that issue last season due to all the cap space but ultimately the only way this team is going to become a consistent contender is through the draft which means MORE PICKS.  

This is nit-picking and has nothing to do with OT but I don't understand why anyone would suggests we draft a CB this year (unless it is deep in the draft and we take a flyer on a guy with upside).

Here is the Jets current depth at CB and it makes NO sense to cut ANY of thee guys:

Revis, M.Williams, Skrine, Milliner, McDougle, D.Morris (just signed as depth and to play special teams)

There's simply no room on the roster for a rookie, let alone a high draft pick that you would NOT want to put on the practice squad. 

The argument is not that Revis is aging or Milliner is a bust or Skrine is not a true #2 or Williams is not a proven starter. The argument is simply that it makes no sense to cut ANY of these guys, the Jets ave good depth at the position, and barring a trade, there is no room for a rookie to join the fold. And I for one believe that Revis is still a true #1, M.Williams will win out the #2 spot for packages where a slot CB is needed, as Skrine is much more suited to play in the slot that on the outside (due to his experience, quickness and effectiveness as a blitzer), and Milliner or McDougle will take a leap this year (barring injury) and provide important depth/contributions.     

[drsamuel84]

1 hour ago, PepPep said:

This is nit-picking and has nothing to do with OT but I don't understand why anyone would suggests we draft a CB this year (unless it is deep in the draft and we take a flyer on a guy with upside).

Here is the Jets current depth at CB and it makes NO sense to cut ANY of thee guys:

Revis, M.Williams, Skrine, Milliner, McDougle, D.Morris (just signed as depth and to play special teams)

There's simply no room on the roster for a rookie, let alone a high draft pick that you would NOT want to put on the practice squad. 

The argument is not that Revis is aging or Milliner is a bust or Skrine is not a true #2 or Williams is not a proven starter. The argument is simply that it makes no sense to cut ANY of these guys, the Jets ave good depth at the position, and barring a trade, there is no room for a rookie to join the fold. And I for one believe that Revis is still a true #1, M.Williams will win out the #2 spot for packages where a slot CB is needed, as Skrine is much more suited to play in the slot that on the outside (due to his experience, quickness and effectiveness as a blitzer), and Milliner or McDougle will take a leap this year (barring injury) and provide important depth/contributions.     

We have depth but we're thin at talent.  I'm not saying we need a bunch of Revis' at CB but Revis isn't getting any younger, Skrine's a good slot guy but I don't thinka #2 and Williams is unproven, looks promising but it was in a very limited sample size.  It doesn't necessarily need to be this year, but getting younger at the position is something that will need to be addressed.

[SayNoToDMC]

Obviously not. I'm not putting it on Mac but we've been lucky the last 10 year. There hasn't been a real plan since Mangini handed the best Oline in football over to Peter Pan. Every time Mangold went down we where awful. We're about to see how lucky we where all these years with Bricks consistency because there was nothing behind him.

[Integrity28]

Nothing about talent acquisition and development has been handled "correctly" by the Jets in my ******* lifetime. I don't know what everyone is bugging out over this. D'Brick was the exception to the norm with this team, he's a top 5 pick that wasn't an all-out bust.

Him needing to be replaced isn't a sudden blemish on an otherwise well-run organization. We root for a hot mess. Rather than milking tears over something that was inevitable, just have faith that maybe, just maybe, we have people in charge finally that won't created more situations like this going forward. 

What I mean by this is, that idiot Tanneonbaum gave away draft picks in exchange for headlines, so we had no depth... and at a minimum, Brick's replacement should have been on the roster 2 years ago - when the other idiot, Idzik, had 473 draft picks and squandered all of them.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

"everyone on this board knew"? I don't think I saw one person mention that as a possibility.

It is very probable that the Jets knew this could be one of the eventualities, but there is little that they could do (this thing called cap space), until the ultimate decision was known.

I agree with you that I wouldn't go so far as to say "everyone on this board knew" because many skip over nyjunc's posts (lol). 

But there was discussion of it here.

Click that post and the back & forth that followed it. (If you have run out of better things to do with your life, that is ). 

As far as the cap, cutting him and having him retire have virtually identical cap implications so I don't see the dilemma. We should have cut him a month ago.

[SayNoToDMC]

18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I agree with you that I wouldn't go so far as to say "everyone on this board knew" because many skip over nyjunc's posts (lol). 

But there was discussion of it here.

Click that post and the back & forth that followed it. (If you have run out of better things to do with your life, that is ). 

As far as the cap, cutting him and having him retire have virtually identical cap implications so I don't see the dilemma. We should have cut him a month ago.

I'm half in the bag and insane, I honestly haven't been keeping up like normal, but I thought I read here nobody from the team talked to him all offseason. The contract was what it was. The next thing I heard was on the radio basically trashing him saying it's him or Fitz as far as him needing to take a major cut in pay. He's a smart guy, which was obvious from day one in the draft room. He liked playing here but he didn't need the money. I think disrespecting an intelligent person means a lot more then the money. He didn't need it but by any logic we'd be better off with him for another year if we just played nice and redid his deal, push it the next couple cause we won't do better. We can't draft somebody outside a trade up better this year

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, SayNoToDMC said:

I'm half in the bag and insane, I honestly haven't been keeping up like normal, but I thought I read here nobody from the team talked to him all offseason. The contract was what it was. The next thing I heard was on the radio basically trashing him saying it's him or Fitz as far as him needing to take a major cut in pay. He's a smart guy, which was obvious from day one in the draft room. He liked playing here but he didn't need the money. I think disrespecting an intelligent person means a lot more then the money. He didn't need it but by any logic we'd be better off with him for another year if we just played nice and redid his deal, push it the next couple cause we won't do better. We can't draft somebody outside a trade up better this year

Yeah I can't speak as to whether or not the team spoke to Ferguson. The allegations are they didn't speak at all this offseason and I have no reason to believe that is untrue. 

My post was more in supporting the idea that it wasn't necessarily far-fetched; it was even discussed here by casual fans based on what Ferguson had to say after seeing the movie. If fans could read his thoughts and say, "Whoa, this guy sounds like retirement is not far off, maybe even this year," then I have trouble believing no one in the FO came up with the same thought (or heard nothing second-hand).

In the end, I think it's just what it looks like: he was thinking about retiring, but $10.4M is a lot of money. When he was asked to take a lot less, even though it's still millions, it wasn't over $10M so the risk seemed less worthwhile. It was risk vs reward, and now the reward wasn't enough to justify the risk.

I think we'll be fine without him, and don't agree that the only way to get even marginally better play is through a trade up. He had a pretty lousy season last year after another lousy season in 2014. Though only 31 for most of the 2015 season, he was a shell of his former self as a player. The discrepancy between him and his LT replacement is less than the discrepancy between the $9M used to upgrade elsewhere (e.g. at QB). 

[j4jets]

16 hours ago, varjet said:

I think this needs its own thread.  

MacC inherited a difficult tackle situation, but in retrospect they should have swung harder to get another Tackle on the roster.  

Now, they are forced to make a desperate trade or potentially reach for a T in the draft, whereas the BPA could have been a QB, WR or even DT.

Everyone on this board new, particularly after the Brick/SI concussion article, that he could choose to retire rather than play for an inadequate amount of money.

I think in the big picture, this helps the Jets build for the future, but it does not help 2016.  They should try and get Clady or Thomas, and if they can't trade Mo, cut him, and save the cap space for next year, or potentially to extend Richardson.  I would think Richardson's contract could be "guaranteed" but for suspension.

 

 

Mac inherited an above avg LT. He had two off seasons to replace him. He chose to wait rather than going hard after Beecham.  Clady or Joe are making as much if not more than what Brick saved us. Wouldn't go that route.

Cutting Mo is just plain borderline retarded. We have sh*t ton of cap space next year and I'm sure Mac will spend every penny of it on washed up or average players. 

Decker would t be a reach n was a target imo anyways. 

The world isn't over. An average LT retired. Relax. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, j4jets said:

Mac inherited an above avg LT. He had two off seasons to replace him. He chose to wait rather than going hard after Beecham.  Clady or Joe are making as much if not more than what Brick saved us. Wouldn't go that route.

Cutting Mo is just plain borderline retarded. We have sh*t ton of cap space next year and I'm sure Mac will spend every penny of it on washed up or average players. 

Decker would t be a reach n was a target imo anyways. 

The world isn't over. An average LT retired. Relax. 

It just isn't true. He inherited a formerly above-average LT.

The rest of your post I more or less agree with, and have been saying for weeks we should have filled no less than one tackle position in free agency. Even without Ferguson's retirement, Maccagnan had to know that we needed two new tackles to replace them both. Unless he has an upcoming trade or signing for a veteran tackle under his sleeve, it would be irresponsible to head into the draft needing two new ones.

I thought that, even though needing to upgrade both starting tackles seemed like a sky-is-falling situation, it really wasn't that bad because of how much cap room would be saved by moving away from each of them. Cutting Brick would have cleared up so much space we could have signed any FA tackle and it would have been a net gain. There isn't even one to trade for that would add to the cap (at worst it would have been a wash). Then find a RT in the draft, which shouldn't be such an arduous task and let Breno go over the summer if the rookie looks halfway decent. On balance a new pair couldn't be worse than last year, when we had the worst starting tackles in the NFL.

Finding 2 instant starters in the draft is simply not happening, though, and it means we should prepare ourselves for another season of Giacomini. For that to happen we'd have to have a perfect storm of draft slots and prospects sitting right there for us (like in 2006 with Brick and Mangold). But that is so rare, and they weren't nearly the players as rookies that they became shortly thereafter.

[Ex-Rex]

23 hours ago, Stark said:

Joe Thomas. 

 

Get on the phone Mac

Too costly. There are replacements in the draft. Germain Ifedi could be had in round two possibly. I think Brick could be talked into returning for a final season at a one time price that would satisfy his 'adequate' money needs. I think his 'retirement' was a knee jerk reaction to the pay cut request. I think he still has a good season in him and I think Macc will explore how to coax him back. If not Decker or Conklin could be had at 20.

[Ex-Rex]

Cutting Mo is just plain borderline retarded.

Not necessarily. The d-line is the most loaded position on the team and Mo can be replaced by Williams pretty adequately I would say. Mo's out of line demands in contract negotiations basically says he wants out of NY. I agree that Mac should have tried harder last year to get this done, but he didn't. I don't think we should cut Mo but strip away the franchise tag and he is highly tradeable then. If another team signs him so be it. Take that 15.7 mill and sign Fitz and a LT like Clady.

[CanadaSteve]

26 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Cutting Mo is just plain borderline retarded.

Not necessarily. The d-line is the most loaded position on the team and Mo can be replaced by Williams pretty adequately I would say. Mo's out of line demands in contract negotiations basically says he wants out of NY. I agree that Mac should have tried harder last year to get this done, but he didn't. I don't think we should cut Mo but strip away the franchise tag and he is highly tradeable then. If another team signs him so be it. Take that 15.7 mill and sign Fitz and a LT like Clady.

No....its retarded. 

[nyjunc]

On 4/9/2016 at 0:28 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

I agree with you that I wouldn't go so far as to say "everyone on this board knew" because many skip over nyjunc's posts (lol). 

But there was discussion of it here.

Click that post and the back & forth that followed it. (If you have run out of better things to do with your life, that is ). 

As far as the cap, cutting him and having him retire have virtually identical cap implications so I don't see the dilemma. We should have cut him a month ago.

who would skip over my posts?  

 

Thank you for posting this.

[section314]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

who would skip over my posts?  

 

Thank you for posting this.

No one in their right mind.But that probably eliminates 95% of the board.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, section314 said:

No one in their right mind.But that probably eliminates 95% of the board.

haha.