joewilly12 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Jets can’t seem to seal deal when best players are due big pay days The Jets traded Keyshawn Johnson to the Bucs, where the receiver won a Super Bowl. (CATAFFO, LINDA) It’s really not all that complicated: Keep your best veteran players, draft well, don’t pay big money to acquire another team’s headaches, hold off the salary cap police and make a run for the Super Bowl. So, why are the Jets the only team in the league not to have their starting QB signed? Why don’t they seem to want to keep Muhammad Wilkerson, their best defensive player? The Jets have a history under four general managers in the last 16 years in the Woody Johnson era of running scared and running away from their best players — not when they commit egregious acts off the field, but when the battleground is money. They are now in stare downs with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Wilkerson. Consider how they’ve bailed out when the money got tough: - Bill Parcells loved Keyshawn Johnson, but feared money problems and a camp boycott were on Johnson’s agenda in the summer of 2000. Instead of paying Johnson, the Jets’ second best player after Curtis Martin, Parcells traded him to the Bucs for the 13th and 27th picks in the draft. It gave Parcells an unprecedented four first-rounds picks. He used the Bucs picks on defensive end John Abraham and tight end Anthony Becht. Parcells then traded the Jets’ No. 16 overall pick along with a second-round pick to the 49ers to draft DE Shaun Ellis. He also had the Pats’ first-round choice at No. 18 that he picked up by trading Bill Belichick to New England, and used that for Chad Pennington. The extra choices gave him the flexibility to take Pennington. Who won the Keyshawn trade? In his third year in Tampa, he helped the Bucs win the Super Bowl. Abraham had 53.5 sacks in six years with the Jets before GM Mike Tannenbaum, a Parcells disciple, traded him to the Falcons for the 29th pick in the 2006 draft. Why did he trade the Jets’ best defensive player? Money. Tannenbaum used the pick on center Nick Mangold, who is still the foundation of the Jets’ offensive line. Becht had just 133 catches in five years with the Jets and then played for the Bucs, Rams, Cardinals and Chiefs. So, it was Johnson for five years of Abraham and 10 years and counting on Mangold plus Becht. Ultimately, the Bucs won this deal because they won the Super Bowl. - One of the questions Woody Johnson asked his GM candidates during the interview process in 2013: What’s your plan to get rid of Darrelle Revis? Johnson didn’t have the stomach for another holdout on Revis Island and liked the plan he heard from John Idzik. Another candidate was pretty much eliminated when he told Johnson he would never trade Revis, despite the anticipated contract problem, because he was the Jets’ best player and you never trade your best player. Jets owner Woody Johnson didn't want to deal with another Darrelle Revis holdout. (JARED WICKERHAM/GETTY IMAGES) Idzik sent Revis, coming off ACL surgery, to the Bucs for the 13th pick in the draft. The Jets took DT Sheldon Richardson. Not bad, right, considering one of the first things Mike Maccagnan did when he replaced Idzik in 2015 was bring Revis back with a five-year $70 million free-agent deal with $39 million guaranteed. The Jets took cornerback Dee Milliner, who has been a bust, with their own pick at No. 9. But if Idzik had not traded Revis, he would not have drafted Milliner. He would have taken Richardson at No. 9. Revis was cut by the Bucs after one season and signed by the Patriots, who might not have won Super Bowl XLIX without him. The big winner of the Revis trade to the Bucs was Belichick. That was the worst-case scenario for the Jets. The Jets hold the leverage on Wilkerson. They slapped him with the $15.7 million franchise tag and haven’t shown any desire to sign him long-term, before or after they were unsuccessful trading him prior to the draft. No team is going to give up a first-round pick for Wilkerson and then give him a deal worth more than $40 million guaranteed. Fitzpatrick is not an elite QB, but he’s the best the Jets have. He gives them the best chance to win in 2016. The schedule is brutal, especially early, and I hear so many Jets fans already saying it doesn’t matter who the QB is, the team is going to take a step back. Jets Nation is so conditioned to disappointment, but giving up on the season in May is extreme, even for them. The Jets are offering around $8 million per year. Fitzpatrick wants around $14 million. Split the difference and pay give him a one-year $11 million deal fully guaranteed. Or a non-guaranteed second year to help the salary cap in 2016. Before free agency started in 1993, players had one option if they could not agree on a contract. They could withhold their services. The Fitz case is a throwback. He has no options because there are no teams offering him a chance to start. In fact, there’s no indication any team is even offering him a chance to be a backup. But that doesn’t make him any less valuable to the Jets. If he had not thrown three interceptions in the fourth quarter of the final game in Buffalo, which cost the Jets the playoffs, there is little doubt he would be signed by now. That game cost him millions. So, for Fitz, it’s like former Cowboys VP Gil Brandt used to say about players holding out in the pre-free agency days: They can either wear the star on their helmet or the star on their chest. The star on their chest: He was referring to the logo workers wear pumping gas at Texaco. The NFL is a business, of course, but why do the Jets struggle to keep their best players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It’s really not all that complicated: Keep your best veteran players, draft well, don’t pay big money to acquire another team’s headaches, hold off the salary cap police and make a run for the Super Bowl. So, why are the Jets the only team in the league not to have their starting QB signed? Why don’t they seem to want to keep Muhammad Wilkerson, their best defensive player? The Jets have a history under four general managers in the last 16 years in the Woody Johnson era of running scared and running away from their best players — not when they commit egregious acts off the field, but when the battleground is money. They are now in stare downs with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Wilkerson. Consider how they’ve bailed out when the money got tough: - Bill Parcells loved Keyshawn Johnson, but feared money problems and a camp boycott were on Johnson’s agenda in the summer of 2000. Instead of paying Johnson, the Jets’ second best player after Curtis Martin, Parcells traded him to the Bucs for the 13th and 27th picks in the draft. It gave Parcells an unprecedented four first-rounds picks. He used the Bucs picks on defensive end John Abraham and tight end Anthony Becht. Parcells then traded the Jets’ No. 16 overall pick along with a second-round pick to the 49ers to draft DE Shaun Ellis. He also had the Pats’ first-round choice at No. 18 that he picked up by trading Bill Belichick to New England, and used that for Chad Pennington. The extra choices gave him the flexibility to take Pennington. Who won the Keyshawn trade? In his third year in Tampa, he helped the Bucs win the Super Bowl. Abraham had 53.5 sacks in six years with the Jets before GM Mike Tannenbaum, a Parcells disciple, traded him to the Falcons for the 29th pick in the 2006 draft. Why did he trade the Jets’ best defensive player? Money. Tannenbaum used the pick on center Nick Mangold, who is still the foundation of the Jets’ offensive line. Becht had just 133 catches in five years with the Jets and then played for the Bucs, Rams, Cardinals and Chiefs. So, it was Johnson for five years of Abraham and 10 years and counting on Mangold plus Becht. Ultimately, the Bucs won this deal because they won the Super Bowl. - One of the questions Woody Johnson asked his GM candidates during the interview process in 2013: What’s your plan to get rid of Darrelle Revis? Johnson didn’t have the stomach for another holdout on Revis Island and liked the plan he heard from John Idzik. Another candidate was pretty much eliminated when he told Johnson he would never trade Revis, despite the anticipated contract problem, because he was the Jets’ best player and you never trade your best player. Jets owner Woody Johnson didn't want to deal with another Darrelle Revis holdout. (JARED WICKERHAM/GETTY IMAGES) Idzik sent Revis, coming off ACL surgery, to the Bucs for the 13th pick in the draft. The Jets took DT Sheldon Richardson. Not bad, right, considering one of the first things Mike Maccagnan did when he replaced Idzik in 2015 was bring Revis back with a five-year $70 million free-agent deal with $39 million guaranteed. The Jets took cornerback Dee Milliner, who has been a bust, with their own pick at No. 9. But if Idzik had not traded Revis, he would not have drafted Milliner. He would have taken Richardson at No. 9. Revis was cut by the Bucs after one season and signed by the Patriots, who might not have won Super Bowl XLIX without him. The big winner of the Revis trade to the Bucs was Belichick. That was the worst-case scenario for the Jets. The Jets hold the leverage on Wilkerson. They slapped him with the $15.7 million franchise tag and haven’t shown any desire to sign him long-term, before or after they were unsuccessful trading him prior to the draft. No team is going to give up a first-round pick for Wilkerson and then give him a deal worth more than $40 million guaranteed. Fitzpatrick is not an elite QB, but he’s the best the Jets have. He gives them the best chance to win in 2016. The schedule is brutal, especially early, and I hear so many Jets fans already saying it doesn’t matter who the QB is, the team is going to take a step back. Jets Nation is so conditioned to disappointment, but giving up on the season in May is extreme, even for them. The Jets are offering around $8 million per year. Fitzpatrick wants around $14 million. Split the difference and pay give him a one-year $11 million deal fully guaranteed. Or a non-guaranteed second year to help the salary cap in 2016. Before free agency started in 1993, players had one option if they could not agree on a contract. They could withhold their services. The Fitz case is a throwback. He has no options because there are no teams offering him a chance to start. In fact, there’s no indication any team is even offering him a chance to be a backup. But that doesn’t make him any less valuable to the Jets. If he had not thrown three interceptions in the fourth quarter of the final game in Buffalo, which cost the Jets the playoffs, there is little doubt he would be signed by now. That game cost him millions. So, for Fitz, it’s like former Cowboys VP Gil Brandt used to say about players holding out in the pre-free agency days: They can either wear the star on their helmet or the star on their chest. The star on their chest: He was referring to the logo workers wear pumping gas at Texaco. The NFL is a business, of course, but why do the Jets struggle to keep their best players?
Jetdawgg Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 The new FO appears to be a lot different than those who were accountable for those activities. How about we give this FO time to see what transpires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 True. Last time I checked Mo was still a Jet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 True. Last time I checked Mo was still a Jet. For $15.8MM for one year with the distinct possibility he walks away for nothing. Mo is yet another example of a very good player they drafted and can't sign to a long term contract. Why do the Jets wait so long to deal with their best young players when they are still on their rookie contract? Mo should have been signed long-term prior to the start of last season. What were the Jets waiting for? To see if he is the real deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Other than QB's, many teams in the league do the exact same thing. If a player is a game changer, or a QB, you keep them, plain and simple. Revis was coming off a devastating injury, and we all knew his history of being the hardest player to negotiate with. I love Mo, but he is not a game changer, and if you watch how often he is blatantly held and tackled with nothing called on the Oline, you seriously have to question committing $16mil+ per year into him. The day we let a game changing player of our own go, is the day I will be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 29 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said: For $15.8MM for one year with the distinct possibility he walks away for nothing. Mo is yet another example of a very good player they drafted and can't sign to a long term contract. Why do the Jets wait so long to deal with their best young players when they are still on their rookie contract? Mo should have been signed long-term prior to the start of last season. What were the Jets waiting for? To see if he is the real deal? Honestly I have no idea. Not sure there ever was a plan but I think Williams falling to us and Macs spending spree is what will ultimately cost us Mo. But until he is gone I will wait and watch and hope something happens in the eleventh hour. Just for the record I always like Chandler Jones more. Sometimes you got to let a good one go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Woody is a top 5 owner in the league imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 minute ago, dbatesman said: Woody is a top 5 owner in the league imho Horrible. Horrifying. Horrendous. Humiliating. Heinous. Haggard. Sorry just trying to figure it out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Honestly I have no idea. Not sure there ever was a plan but I think Williams falling to us and Macs spending spree is what will ultimately cost us Mo. But until he is gone I will wait and watch and hope something happens in the eleventh hour. Just for the record I always like Chandler Jones more. Sometimes you got to let a good one go. You bring up a very good point about Williams falling to the Jets. That easily could have changed the Jets strategy with Mo. Mo and Chandler are both very productive players. To me, I give Jones the slight edge because of all the big plays he makes in crunch time. Mo hasn't consistently done that yet. If the Pats didn't have to deal with Collins (who will absolutely get a long term contract with the Pats), Hightower and Butler next year, I think the Pats might have worked something out with Jones. Like you said, it sucks to lose good young players, but it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Front office consistency (winning) is needed to make this happen; how many players were lost due to changes in coaching styles? Harris, Mangold and Brick got paid, and should retire as Jets, on the other side, they paid Sanchez as a franchise QB, sold out to Holmes and had a few horrible drafts so it will take some time to get younger again, that means we will need to chill on the fire Mac and Bowles threads for a few years and understand they will make mistakes, hopefully they learn and get better, the answer is not to change out the FO every 2 years (see Browns) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainejet Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Their hands are tied in regards to Mo. Stop throwing the Jets under the bus. You cannot pay Mo what he THINKS he's worth and still win in today's NFL. The thing that's bothersome from the Jets standpoint is that they failed to trade him. That gives me ZERO confidence in the front office. If Mo leaves after this season (and that will likely happen at this point), that shows total incompetence on the part of Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 This article formatted weird on web so I didn't read it but, I'm guessing he didn't speak on Brick, Mangold, Harris, etc getting paid multiple contracts. Also, it's hard to retain players when the leadership changes often and therefore scheme does as well. Different players are prioritized in a different way by different front offices. Unless you're Wilkerson and no one wants to pay you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Front office consistency (winning) is needed to make this happen; how many players were lost due to changes in coaching styles) Vilma is a perfect example of that. If the Jets played a base 4-3 defense, Vilma would have been a star for the Jets for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Article is contradictory as well, Wilk (a drafted player) and Fitz (merc) are very different from a "pay your players" perspective, giving Fitx 3yr/50m would be a repeat mistake of the Holmes deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 minute ago, PatsFanTX said: Vilma is a perfect example of that. If the Jets played a base 4-3 defense, Vilma would have been a star for the Jets for many years. Exactly, and going back a few years Farrior was the 8th overall pick for the Jets, but played 10 years and won his SB with the steelers 3-4 defense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Woody Johnson does not like big money commitments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin L Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Malik Jackson and Olivier Vernon are both getting paid $17 million a year. Do people truly believe that Mo isn't a better player than both of those guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colgateman Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 One thing I hate about this team is they do not want to pay their homegrown talent, yet they go out and give multi-year big moey contracts to free agents who weren't even drafted by this team. ******* stupid if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 One thing I hate about this team is they do not want to pay their homegrown talent, yet they go out and give multi-year big moey contracts to free agents who weren't even drafted by this team. ******* stupid if you ask me You do realize that the reason the Jets have to spend big money on FA's is because of their inability to pay their homegrown talent? Catch 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Horrible. Horrifying. Horrendous. Humiliating. Heinous. Haggard. Sorry just trying to figure it out . Excellent use of alliteration with that post. I'm impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colgateman Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 4 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said: You do realize that the reason the Jets have to spend big money on FA's is because of their inability to pay their homegrown talent? Catch 22 Yeah, that's what makes it even worse. Jets were bidding up to 16 million for Oliver Vernon this offseason, yet can't pay Mo what he wants? That's the worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share Posted May 15, 2016 9 minutes ago, Colgateman said: One thing I hate about this team is they do not want to pay their homegrown talent, yet they go out and give multi-year big moey contracts to free agents who weren't even drafted by this team. ******* stupid if you ask me They then are forced to throw big money at free agents that and the fact they cant draft for sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Who poses for photographs like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 I didn't read the article because Myers has been on a fantastical Jets-have-a-moral-obligation-to-pay-Fitz-$20-mil-derp kick, but I don't think the Jets blew the the Revis situation until they gave him big money last year. The original salary dump was wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 I didn't read the article because Myers has been on a fantastical Jets-have-a-moral-obligation-to-pay-Fitz-$20-mil-derp kick, but I don't think the Jets blew the the Revis situation until they gave him big money last year. The original salary dump was wise. I still say the Revis contract was all Woody trying to save face with the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, T0mShane said: I didn't read the article because Myers has been on a fantastical Jets-have-a-moral-obligation-to-pay-Fitz-$20-mil-derp kick, but I don't think the Jets blew the the Revis situation until they gave him big money last year. The original salary dump was wise. The original salary dump handed the Patriots another Super Bowl. We could have kept Revis for cheaper than what we have him for now, still drafted Sheldon, and the Pats don't even make it to the Seahawks. That was and still is one of Idzik's worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said: I still say the Revis contract was all Woody trying to save face with the fans. That just shows how little he understands fans. Fans don't want to pay anybody either, Woody! I fully agree with RJF's take. I will hopefully get to enjoy his disgust over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Curtis Conway will replace Coles just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlito1171 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 53 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said: Front office consistency (winning) is needed to make this happen; how many players were lost due to changes in coaching styles? Harris, Mangold and Brick got paid, and should retire as Jets, on the other side, they paid Sanchez as a franchise QB, sold out to Holmes and had a few horrible drafts so it will take some time to get younger again, that means we will need to chill on the fire Mac and Bowles threads for a few years and understand they will make mistakes, hopefully they learn and get better, the answer is not to change out the FO every 2 years (see Browns) +1 I believe they are going to have a longer leash then people think. I'm sure when Woody hired Casserly and Wolf they told him what he was getting himself into, and what is needed to set us on the right course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Curtis Conway will replace Coles just fine. Derrick Mason was another good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlito1171 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 54 minutes ago, varjet said: Woody Johnson does not like big money commitments. After he got on his knees and gave Revis a blank check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtina Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 2 hours ago, joewilly12 said: One of the questions Woody Johnson asked his GM candidates during the interview process in 2013: What’s your plan to get rid of Darrelle Revis? Johnson didn’t have the stomach for another holdout on Revis Island and liked the plan he heard from John Idzik. Another candidate was pretty much eliminated when he told Johnson he would never trade Revis, despite the anticipated contract problem, because he was the Jets’ best player and you never trade your best player. well, that's interesting. and then he gets accused of tampering for saying he wants him back, and then gives him a big payday? something is not adding up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Myers is a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio State NY Jets fan Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said: Derrick Mason was another good one. Yea, did not replace Jerricho Cotchery as intended but they should have listened to Mason instead of trading him away, he called out tension in the locker room (Plax, Holmes) and shotty play calling... turns out he was right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said: Derrick Mason was another good one. Lets not forget Clyde Gates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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