what if geno is the answer ? ? ?

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

True. Goes to show that its not how you start (tied for the fewest INT's in the 1st half in 2015), but how you finish (Tied for the most INT's in the 4th quarter). 

 

Fitz threw more than half of his INT's (8 of 15) in the 4th quarter. 

 

No problem. Glad you like the site. Those are the type of "advanced stats" I check out. 

 

Enjoy the season bro. 

 

I was first to the 50 in the hundred yard dash once.  Ended up last. 

Looked super sexy for the first 50 though. 

[rex-n-effect]

54 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i'm throwing out a hypothetical:  let's say geno is the #2 and petty the #3.  let's say fitz gets hurt, ankle sprain, will miss at least 2 games, maybe more.  so now geno starts and petty is the backup.  now let's say the jets lose the first game geno starts, he has a few good throws but in general does not command the offense well and makes too many of the same mistakes he's typically made.  would bowles actually trot geno out there again, or give petty a shot?  i guess i'm wondering how much tolerance the coaching staff would have for geno if he doesn't play well.

 

The second Fitz gets injured and must miss a game the coaching staff is going to start evaluating Petty with the 2s to figure out what he can do with the 1s in a game situation. It's hard to really say what it would take for Petty to come in as the starter, short of absolute failure, without knowing how bad Geno is playing and how well Petty looks in practice preparing as the actual backup. 

Geno would likely get more than one game, even if Petty looks pretty good in practice, unless he played truly miserably. If there is a legitimate contention that Geno came in rusty only having a week or whatever to prepare for the game then he's going to get a second, possibly a third game. 

[Big Blocker]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

well, if he is named the backup, then they at least think he's better than petty.  but geno knows this preseason he is fighting not only for the #2 spot on the jets, but to be viewed differently by the entire nfl.  he hasn't exactly risen to the occasion yet.  

What goes into any assessment that Smith is "better" than Petty is not such a simple matter. Certainly it's not based on performance in the two games this summer.  Given his past and the apparent disconnect between when he wears a red shirt and when he doesn't, I wouldn't think performance in practice should weigh all that heavily.  How about that he's a vet?  Again, yes, he's a vet, but a stinky one.

[NYs Stepchild]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

True. Goes to show that its not how you start (tied for the fewest INT's in the 1st half in 2015), but how you finish (Tied for the most INT's in the 4th quarter). 

 

Fitz threw more than half of his INT's (8 of 15) in the 4th quarter. 

 

No problem. Glad you like the site. Those are the type of "advanced stats" I check out. 

 

Enjoy the season bro. 

 

It's not how you start or finish. It's about the entire game, not just the stats you cherry pick. 

[Big Blocker]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

If they keep Geno, and either go with four QBs or cut Petty, they're committing to him as the primary backup. Wavering between the two ends with the final cut downs. 

Petty would have to flat out suck the next two games for them to outright cut him. 

[ljr]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

i'm throwing out a hypothetical:  let's say geno is the #2 and petty the #3.  let's say fitz gets hurt, ankle sprain, will miss at least 2 games, maybe more.  so now geno starts and petty is the backup.  now let's say the jets lose the first game geno starts, he has a few good throws but in general does not command the offense well and makes too many of the same mistakes he's typically made.  would bowles actually trot geno out there again, or give petty a shot?  i guess i'm wondering how much tolerance the coaching staff would have for geno if he doesn't play well.

 

Unfortunately my guess is if they trot him out for a typical Geno performance week 1 the. We should expect the same week 2

[NYs Stepchild]

1 minute ago, ljr said:

Unfortunately my guess is if they trot him out for a typical Geno performance week 1 the. We should expect the same week 2

Right up until we're mathematically eliminated and  the games don't count anymore where he will suddenly show progress. 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Petty would have to flat out suck the next two games for them to outright cut him. 

Listen, I'd cut Geno, name Petty the #2, and see how he responds to the responsibility. He's passed my amateur eyeball test. But Bowles always says the film will tell the story, and he could be looking at a lot of things you and I aren't seeing. 

[Villain The Foe]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

I was first to the 50 in the hundred yard dash once.  Ended up last. 

Looked super sexy for the first 50 though. 

Sums it up quite well lol. 

[Villain The Foe]

10 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

It's not how you start or finish. It's about the entire game, not just the stats you cherry pick. 

Okay. Tell that to John Elway. 

[Big Blocker]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Listen, I'd cut Geno, name Petty the #2, and see how he responds to the responsibility. He's passed my amateur eyeball test. But Bowles always says the film will tell the story, and he could be looking at a lot of things you and I aren't seeing. 

At this point I think either Smith sucks some more and gets cut, or they actually do go ahead and keep 4 Qbs.  Which as we all know has a cost to it.  But there it is. 

[kelly]

..if you think geno is the answer ^ ^ 

 

 

 

cheers ~ ~ 

[Augustiniak]

16 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

What goes into any assessment that Smith is "better" than Petty is not such a simple matter. Certainly it's not based on performance in the two games this summer.  Given his past and the apparent disconnect between when he wears a red shirt and when he doesn't, I wouldn't think performance in practice should weigh all that heavily.  How about that he's a vet?  Again, yes, he's a vet, but a stinky one.

i think a better way to word it is, at this point, bowles and mccags may think geno is a bit more ready than petty.  but that said, if geno keeps playing poorly, what he does in practice matters less.  it has to translate to real football.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Listen, I'd cut Geno, name Petty the #2, and see how he responds to the responsibility. He's passed my amateur eyeball test. But Bowles always says the film will tell the story, and he could be looking at a lot of things you and I aren't seeing. 

That's been my whole point the second this board wetting themselves over Petty preseason performance vs. the scrubs.  We have no clue what happened on each play to truly assess either players performance.  

[56mehl56]

14 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

What goes into any assessment that Smith is "better" than Petty is not such a simple matter. Certainly it's not based on performance in the two games this summer.  Given his past and the apparent disconnect between when he wears a red shirt and when he doesn't, I wouldn't think performance in practice should weigh all that heavily.  How about that he's a vet?  Again, yes, he's a vet, but a stinky one.

Regardless of who I prefer at QB , I'd much rather the coaching staff make the decision based on the entirety of work - practice , PS games, class study.

Looking solely at practice or solely at exhibition games where teams run vanilla schemes on both sides of the ball is a recipe for a poor decision.

[JETSfaninNE]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

I'm contemplating buying Madden. I'm looking at a ton of reviews etc. I really wish they'd change the damn game engine already. It's been the same game for like a decade. 

Granted, my last full purchase of a madden game was Madden 13 and I got 15 used. I'm just not impressed with the game. I wish we had some options out there....but "money talks" when dealing with Rodger Goodell. 

 

I heard the commentary is great though. 

Its pretty good this year but I agree about changing the game engine.  But yeah the running game and presentation are way better then last year.  Still long as load times and a lot of cloud computing/saves means waiting extra seconds every time you want to change up your roster depth chart or sign free agents each week.  Commentary is updated weekly I think so it shouldn't ever get stale and I have to admit its pretty intelligent so far and actually had me turn my head a few times at some of the clever things they mention or how they tie in some historical data to the game you are currently playing.

waiting for the madden hardcore to release some new rosters and settings to help with the injuries and fumbles though since those 2 things I feel are happening a little too much in each game.

[MaxAF]

11 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

At this point I think either Smith sucks some more and gets cut, or they actually do go ahead and keep 4 Qbs.  Which as we all know has a cost to it.  But there it is. 

I can't see the Jets cutting any QB. Geno is worth something. Some team will pick him up for a 4, 5, 6, 7 round pick. Can't see Petty getting cut. Mac just drafted him last year and they knew he would be a project. He's progressing on target. Best move would be for Hack to go to PS or IR. He's clearly not going to see much if any playing time this year.

[Big Blocker]

40 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Regardless of who I prefer at QB , I'd much rather the coaching staff make the decision based on the entirety of work - practice , PS games, class study.

Looking solely at practice or solely at exhibition games where teams run vanilla schemes on both sides of the ball is a recipe for a poor decision.

To be clear I like Bowles a lot.  So far.  But I don't know enough about him, given his limited track record, to have complete faith in him.  Same for Gailey and Macc, and in Gailey's case that's even true despite his long career as a coach in the NFL.  Sure they have more info than you or I do on this subject.  But they are humans, and can be wrong, or maybe are quite simply more fearful of the potential adverse effect of a change here than of the effects of leaving it alone.

We've seen Jet coaches in the past who a consensus developed were too deferential to veterans.  Those coaches had access to as you say "the entirety of work", but they were not always right.

In any event we as fans are entitled to our opinions, including whether the CS is doing something we think is not good. 

Finally no one is talking about looking solely at an exhibition game or three.  Smith has a history, and it is not a good one.  And I do think if a player looks like crap in an exhibition game, that does tell you something.

[Adoni Beast]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

question 2:  which coach kept him in for all 3 picks?

Rex Ryan lol but it reminded me of Kotite putting Vance Joseph in the secondary on MNF against the Raiders.

[56mehl56]

7 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

To be clear I like Bowles a lot.  So far.  But I don't know enough about him, given his limited track record, to have complete faith in him.  Same for Gailey and Macc, and in Gailey's case that's even true despite his long career as a coach in the NFL.  Sure they have more info than you or I do on this subject.  But they are humans, and can be wrong, or maybe are quite simply more fearful of the potential adverse effect of a change here than of the effects of leaving it alone.

We've seen Jet coaches in the past who a consensus developed were too deferential to veterans.  Those coaches had access to as you say "the entirety of work", but they were not always right.

In any event we as fans are entitled to our opinions, including whether the CS is doing something we think is not good. 

Finally no one is talking about looking solely at an exhibition game or three.  Smith has a history, and it is not a good one.  And I do think if a player looks like crap in an exhibition game, that does tell you something.

Really ??   Have you looked at Eli Manning so far this preseason , does his poor performance mean he'll stink come September ??

Many players look pedestrian or even poor in preseason and flourish in season. Others look like preseason all stars but vanish when the season starts.

The NFL and the players union(CBA) have basically made the preseason a joke where most teams are just trying to avoid injuries and shake off a little rust. The only people it matters to are the few fringe players who are trying to make the team or get some work on film so that another team may look at them.  I think if you asked most coaches they'd probably prefer controlled scrimmages with other teams.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Really ??   Have you looked at Eli Manning so far this preseason , does his poor performance mean he'll stink come September ??

Many players look pedestrian or even poor in preseason and flourish in season. Others look like preseason all stars but vanish when the season starts.

The NFL and the players union(CBA) have basically made the preseason a joke where most teams are just trying to avoid injuries and shake off a little rust. The only people it matters to are the few fringe players who are trying to make the team or get some work on film so that another team may look at them.  I think if you asked most coaches they'd probably prefer controlled scrimmages with other teams.

if you have proven you can do it before then it really doesn't matter.  if you've never been good then every additional time you go out there and don't play well, yes, it matters.

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

if you have proven you can do it before then it really doesn't matter.  if you've never been good then every additional time you go out there and don't play well, yes, it matters.

So what's your definition of never being good ??  Is 8-8 never being good ??.  Because both of our "experienced" QB's only achieved that once. One in a 4 year career the other in a 11 year span. Yet the one who did it in 4 years is constantly labeled as not good while the other isn't held to the same standards.  Geno can go out there and complete 13-13 passes and throw for 3 tds tomorrow and it changes nothing of the optics from fans who say he stinks. On the flipside Fitz can go 2-12 with 3 ints and 90% of the fanbase won't blink an eye. So no preseason performance means diddly squat.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

So what's your definition of never being good ??  Is 8-8 never being good ??.  Because both of our "experienced" QB's only achieved that once. One in a 4 year career the other in a 11 year span. Yet the one who did it in 4 years is constantly labeled as not good while the other isn't held to the same standards.  Geno can go out there and complete 13-13 passes and throw for 3 tds tomorrow and it changes nothing of the optics from fans who say he stinks. On the flipside Fitz can go 2-12 with 3 ints and 90% of the fanbase won't blink an eye. So no preseason performance means diddly squat.

never being good means 27 tds and 35 ints with 7 fumbles and a 57.9 career completion %.  i'm not comparing him to fitz. i'm comparing him to other starting qbs.  if you compare his stats to other starting qbs he's not a starting qb.

[FTL Jet Fan]

Only two more weeks of this sh*t. 

[56mehl56]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

never being good means 27 tds and 35 ints with 7 fumbles and a 57.9 career completion %.  i'm not comparing him to fitz. i'm comparing him to other starting qbs.  if you compare his stats to other starting qbs he's not a starting qb.

So by your standards Fitz would have been declared never being good after 3 seasons. Eli would have been sent packing by the Giants, the Cowboys would have dumped Aikman. Face it the fanbase has no tolerance for Geno Smith - I get it , I'm not sure I understand it logically - but I get it.

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Only two more weeks of this sh*t. 

You wish.

[NYs Stepchild]

28 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

So what's your definition of never being good ??  Is 8-8 never being good ??.  Because both of our "experienced" QB's only achieved that once. One in a 4 year career the other in a 11 year span. Yet the one who did it in 4 years is constantly labeled as not good while the other isn't held to the same standards.  Geno can go out there and complete 13-13 passes and throw for 3 tds tomorrow and it changes nothing of the optics from fans who say he stinks. On the flipside Fitz can go 2-12 with 3 ints and 90% of the fanbase won't blink an eye. So no preseason performance means diddly squat.

8-8 and threw 12 TDs 

[NYs Stepchild]

17 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

So by your standards Fitz would have been declared never being good after 3 seasons. Eli would have been sent packing by the Giants, the Cowboys would have dumped Aikman. Face it the fanbase has no tolerance for Geno Smith - I get it , I'm not sure I understand it logically - but I get it.

All we need to do is wait 8 more years for Geno to get good. 

[NYs Stepchild]

The preseason doesn't matter if you play poorly because you are attempting things that you wouldn't do in a game, or if you aren't taking it seriously enough.

However Geno is taking it way too seriously, and he isn't being lax, he's getting nervous. If you're a veteran that gets nervous, and panics in a preseason game I don't want to see you in a real game. That's besides the fact that this has been his problem since day one, and why he was voted the worst starter in the NFL in both of his years. The one thing Geno has been consistent at. 

Look Fitz is around the 23rd best QB, but Geno is in the 36-40 range. Petty may be even worse but we do not know that yet. We do know he's making progress while Geno is looking worse so far. Preseason just started getting important for Geno, and if as you guys say, he is not taking it seriously he'd better start. He better make some plays tomorrow or he'll find out that preseason does matter for guys like him.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, MaxAF said:

I can't see the Jets cutting any QB. Geno is worth something. Some team will pick him up for a 4, 5, 6, 7 round pick. Can't see Petty getting cut. Mac just drafted him last year and they knew he would be a project. He's progressing on target. Best move would be for Hack to go to PS or IR. He's clearly not going to see much if any playing time this year.

Geno is worth nothing in a trade as a pending free agent and terrible player. 

Hack to the PS probably should happen but I don't think it will. I think another team pounces. 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

8-8 and threw 12 TDs 

Yet 31 td's only got us two more wins .Not sure that's the benchmark stat you want to hang your argument on.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

The preseason doesn't matter if you play poorly because you are attempting things that you wouldn't do in a game, or if you aren't taking it seriously enough.

However Geno is taking it way too seriously, and he isn't being lax, he's getting nervous. If you're a veteran that gets nervous, and panics in a preseason game I don't want to see you in a real game. That's besides the fact that this has been his problem since day one, and why he was voted the worst starter in the NFL in both of his years. The one thing Geno has been consistent at. 

Look Fitz is around the 23rd best QB, but Geno is in the 36-40 range. Petty may be even worse but we do not know that yet. We do know he's making progress while Geno is looking worse so far. Preseason just started getting important for Geno, and if as you guys say, he is not taking it seriously he'd better start. He better make some plays tomorrow or he'll find out that preseason does matter for guys like him.

And if it was perceived that he was too comfortable and lax , he'd be accused of not taking it seriously.  Fitz is the 23rd best QB based off one outlier season , one , not a string of 8 good seasons . If he had been a Jet QB through the Rex years , you all would have given up on him long ago. 

Bottom line it appears that the Jets are finally attempting to develop QB's for the first time in about a decade. Let the process happen , haven't we learned rushing players especially QB's is fool's gold. I hope and pray either Petty or Hack can develop into that stable QB we can ride behind for a decade. I know one thing for certain though if it was up to this fanbase both would be rushed and discarded when the optics didn't meet their impatient standards. 

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, JETSfaninNE said:

Its pretty good this year but I agree about changing the game engine.  But yeah the running game and presentation are way better then last year.  Still long as load times and a lot of cloud computing/saves means waiting extra seconds every time you want to change up your roster depth chart or sign free agents each week.  Commentary is updated weekly I think so it shouldn't ever get stale and I have to admit its pretty intelligent so far and actually had me turn my head a few times at some of the clever things they mention or how they tie in some historical data to the game you are currently playing.

waiting for the madden hardcore to release some new rosters and settings to help with the injuries and fumbles though since those 2 things I feel are happening a little too much in each game.

Yeah, I heard that they would be updating the commentary every week in order to tie in whats going on in the actual season. That was pretty clever by them. 

I'll probably give it a shot. Maybe next year they'll update the engine to Frostbyte like they did FIFA this year. I'd buy that immediately!  

[NYs Stepchild]

52 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yet 31 td's only got us two more wins .Not sure that's the benchmark stat you want to hang your argument on.

It's a team sport. Please stop. You can't spin 12 TDs into a good performance. Just watch them play and stop letting your feelings cloud your judgment. In fact all you need to do is watch them on the sidelines. 

[RutgersJetFan]

36 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I know one thing for certain though if it was up to this fanbase both would be rushed and discarded when the optics didn't meet their impatient standards. 

If the sensible part of this fanbase didn't rush out the crappy coaches and quarterbacks when it was obvious they sucked, you'd still be cheering for Eric Mangini and Kellen Clemens on Sundays. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post.