Its Not Just The Players

[Villain The Foe]

Joe Caporoso said it best. 

 

[dbatesman]

14 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Hey the guy tried to move up and get a QB and it didn't happen. We have not seen any of those guys in real game action as of yet you have to show just a tiny bit of optimism don't you ? After all Macc did build a pretty good team over the past 2 years QB's are not easy to come by and they are certainly not easy to evaluate since most of the ones putting up huge stats in college are doing so because the opposition is just inferior. I would not mind seeing Petty if Fitz sh*ts the bed again next week that is if he's available

Yeah, he may have drafted a couple of s*itty QBs, but you gotta give him credit--at least he drafted a couple of s*itty QBs.

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Taking over a dumpster fire team that was 4-12 and making it a stable 10-6 team who doesn't embarrass itself on and off the field? Take a breath man

Macc turned this team around the personnel was totally different from Rex to Bowles. This team now has a lot of talent on offense and even though I think Rex is a scam his offensive talent was pretty bad

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Yeah, he may have drafted a couple of s*itty QBs, but you gotta give him credit--at least he drafted a couple of s*itty QBs.

meh I don't know what to tell you if you think all the QB's on our roster who have not seen live game action suck. Can't  argue about what we don't really know yet

[dbatesman]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

Can't  argue about what we don't really know yet

You must be new here.

[aec4]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

1. How many points did the defense give up? 10. I rest my case.

2.The offense stunk. Mostly because the players stunk. Ryan Fitzpatrick has audible power. If he sees, the calls aren't working, he can audible to different plays. That's the whole point of having audibles. Given the way the offense stunk, I'm not surprised he didn't go for it at the end of the half.

3. If you want to bench Jalin Marshall, he never learns. Tiki Barber.

 

While all the points were on turnovers, I grant you that, they gave up 17 and it probably should have been 24 if Ware didn't do us a huge favor dropping the ball going for the pilon.

[Smashmouth]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Joe Caporoso said it best. 

 

that is 100 % correct Villian no arguments here at all. I'm evaluating Bowles on all his games (not just yesterday) and I just don't like what I see so far. I have kept quiet for the most part about him because I think you have to give young coaches a chance but at some point you can't make simple fundamental mistakes that should not even be made on the High School level. His use of time outs and over all game management is horrid and its emphasized even more in a game like yesterdays. Even in games we have won he's coached poorly but in a win it just gets swept aside.

[Smashmouth]

So Rex Ryan is Sid Vicious and Todd Bowles is Perry Como .... either way you want to stab yourself in the fcuking face.

[phill1c]

"This was not a banner day for the defense by any means. They were reactive, didn’t force any turnovers and rarely set the Jets up with favorable field position. However, at the end of the day, they allowed 10 points. The Jets special teams allowed 7 points and never flipped field position. Their offense handed over a pick six and threw two interceptions in the red-zone when the score was 17-3."

this is a simplistic notion. They allowed 10 points. That would be fine if the offense and special teams scored 11. But they didn't.

The Jets defense had 2 virtually meaningless sacks and allowed Smith enough time to go 7-15 on third downs, while allowing 14 first downs through the air. Alex Smith had a 105 QB rating. I'm sorry, but that wasn't nearly the kind of performance to win this type of game.

What's very disappointing is that the Jets had extra time to prepare for this game. So, how is that they had no particular surprises for the KC defense or offense? How is it that the same WR screen works for three games in a row now? How is it that Calvin Pryor is matched up with the most potent receiving threat one-on-one?

Statistically, the Jets defense did "ok". But, really, when you look at how KC was able to control the tempo, keep the Jets defense on the field (until they discovered that it was best to let the Jets offense and special teams on the field more), I'd say that they didn't play all that way at all.

And, please: can someone tells these buffoons that first-down gestures when you haven't scored all day and looked like crap and "I made a play" stares and poses when the DL hasn't really had any real effect on the game are asinine? Yes, Enunwa and Wilkerson, I'm talking about you!!

[nyjunc]

I am quickly souring on Bowles.  how many games does his team look unprepared? how many games w. no adjustment?  give me Rex over this guy any day.  the only thing I like is he doesn't panic but half the time I am not sure if he is awake or asleep on the sidelines.

[Villain The Foe]

17 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

that is 100 % correct Villian no arguments here at all. I'm evaluating Bowles on all his games (not just yesterday) and I just don't like what I see so far. I have kept quiet for the most part about him because I think you have to give young coaches a chance but at some point you can't make simple fundamental mistakes that should not even be made on the High School level. His use of time outs and over all game management is horrid and its emphasized even more in a game like yesterdays. Even in games we have won he's coached poorly but in a win it just gets swept aside.

Coaches stunk and I think Bowles left Fitz out there to dry alittle bit. I personally thought he should pull Fitz from the game, not because of personal feelings (Im being serious here), but because it was obvious that it wasnt Fitz day yesterday. And even if he didnt want to stir up controversy at the position by pulling him, he could have protected Fitz by NOT THROWING THE BALL. 

Smash there was literally a series in the 4th quarter where the offense called four pass plays. The first 3 downs the defense dropped the INT and on 4th down they finally got the pick. That moment right there everyone at home knew that Fitz was done for the day. Its Bowles job to protect Fitz from himself. There's nothing wrong with that. And granted, we were still within two scores, so if you didnt want to pull him you could have still just ran the ball. 

The coaching staff has to know how to protect their players in situations like that. There's no reason for Fitz to have this type of game heading home to face the seahawks. Bowles needs to establish more situational play design. Look at Belicheat. Dude is a master at it. When Garopolo was the QB the offense looked a particular way. When Brissett was called to be the QB the Pats offense looked like a completely different team in order to cater to/protect their QB. 

 

Fitz shouldnt have had that type of day because the coaching staff should have protected him from having such a day. That was damn near "blood on the streets" and the coaching staff allowed him to bleed out by continuing to call pass play, after pass play, after pass play. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

yeah but like others have said you need to send the kid a message if this were Parcells his ass would have been on the bench after the first fumble. He has not been a good receiver at any point dropping a large number of balls both in pre season and in the regular season . Robbie Anderson is the superior player on offense and should be getting at least 20 - 30 snaps a game because he really is the only burner on this roster. and he also shows the ability to be a serious redzone threat.

Parcells also said that rookies cost you games with stupid mistakes.  You want Anderson playing until he makes one of those rookie mistakes Marshall keeps making.  

[rex-n-effect]

55 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I cant agree with that in regarding both losses. The defense was bending but really didnt break. The defense gave up 10 points yesterday yet the Chiefs scored 24 points. The Jets offense scored just 3 points. Special teams gave up a TD as well. The chiefs moved the ball but the defense didnt give up all those points, they actually saved a TD yesterday by causing a fumble which ended up being a touchback which gave the Jets the ball. Thats basically a turnover. 

That means a lot less when you factor in that KC realized we weren't scoring and there was no need to take risks on offense to run up the score. They played safe through the second half and just ate up the clock. So the fact that our defense was beat halfway down the field to force a punt over and over is less impressive than those ten points sound. However, the greater problem on defense was that once again we were getting beat down by a short passing game. That's really on coaching rather than the players. An offense should not be able to do the same thing to us for four quarters especially with their foot off the gas half the game. 

[Big Blocker]

I do not think the CS has shown itself to be, overall, incompetent.  But for one game, the game yesterday, they were bad.  Maybe the D was not as bad as the O, but they were bad, too.  Special teams?  Gave up a touchdown on the J Marshall handoff to KC.  That is unacceptable, even if the rest of the game was not as bad.   And this was his second turnover in two weeks. 

What can you say when a team plays badly in all phases?  I don't see how you can say the CS got the team ready.  SUre the problems were also on execution.  But the CS had an awful day, too.

To take one example on D, how do you not use press coverage against Alex Smith?

On O, almost no runs in the red zone? 

Those are just two questions.  There were many.

I think that Bowles and the rest of the CS have to come up with a more aggressive approach, attacking the other team's weaknesses.  Play the opponent, not just utilize a particular approach week after week.

But no, I don't think overall that they are incompetent. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

That means a lot less when you factor in that KC realized we weren't scoring and there was no need to take risks on offense to run up the score. They played safe through the second half and just ate up the clock. So the fact that our defense was beat halfway down the field to force a punt over and over is less impressive than those ten points sound. However, the greater problem on defense was that once again we were getting beat down by a short passing game. That's really on coaching rather than the players. An offense should not be able to do the same thing to us for four quarters especially with their foot off the gas half the game. 

Well, KC was making an effort to score before the end of the half and the Jets defense stopped them from doing so. KC made an effort to score on a rushing play which was eventually overturned because a Jets defender created a fumble which ended up being a touchback which is basically a created turnover in favor of the jets. 

The Chiefs played safe the entire game and ate up the clock. You can say anything means alot less when you create the narrative. What actually happened is that the Jets defense allow 10 of the 24 points scored. Special teams gave KC 7 points and the offense gave the KC 7 points. 

 

We can also add to the fact that when your offense throws 6 INT's and the defense allowed just 10 points, that counts for something, not matter how you want to narrate it. 

[peebag]

2 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

what is likely to be one of the worst performances of any quarterback this year, if not the worst. He finished 20/44 for 188 yards with 6 interceptions and 0 touchdowns. What else happened in a sobering reality check for the now 1-2 Jets? 

Not much. They started sluggish on both sides of the football but Kansas City did not get on the board until the Jets began handing them the football. The Chiefs first touchdown came on a short field after a Fitzpatrick interception. Their next 3 points came after a Bilal Powell fumble (when it appeared he was down) and their next 7 came when Jalin Marshall went Joe McKnight Butt-Fumble on a kick return for a Kansas City touchdown.

This was not a banner day for the defense by any means. They were reactive, didn’t force any turnovers and rarely set the Jets up with favorable field position. However, at the end of the day, they allowed 10 points. The Jets special teams allowed 7 points and never flipped field position. Their offense handed over a pick six and threw two interceptions in the red-zone when the score was 17-3.

Losses like this have many culprits. Jalin Marshall failed today and should not be the kick returner for at least a few weeks. The secondary, namely Calvin Pryor, could not stop Travis Kelce. Darrelle Revis was beaten multiple times by Chris ‘freakin Conley. Chan Gailey should have ran the ball more in the red-zone. Todd Bowles should have coached more aggressively.

Yet, let’s not beat around the bush. The Jets primary culprit today was their quarterback, who was dreadful not just with his turnovers but by regularly leaving big plays on the field. Robby Anderson had a touchdown turned into a 26 yard catch because the ball was behind him. Brandon Marshall had a touchdown turned into a pass interference penalty because the ball was behind him. You can’t overcome leaving touchdowns on the field, like you can’t overcome eight turnovers. EIGHT!

http://turnonthejets.com/2016/09/initial-reaction-dumpster-fire-fitztragic-leads-pathetic-jets-effort/#more-33874

I was at the game - it was total team screw up.

[ASH1962]

3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

This is a vast overreaction. Not because Bowles is perfect, he does make mistakes but because there are many assumptions and contradictions here. 

Right now Bowles is 11-8 with 13 games left to go this season. This is a big week for him and will tell us a lot about him as a coach.

I agree with the OP 100% - Look at the end of the first half yesterday, to not call timeouts and try to make KC punt was ridiculous! I guess Bowles does not know you can block a punt and score on ST's, probably because we never have under his regime. I am not saying fire the coach now, but this team is seriously under coached in my opinion. If Bowles cannot adapt on the fly he will never succeed as a HC. The proof is we had 10 days to prepare for KC and look what happened.

[Beerfish]

The offense and the QB justifiably are taking the big heat for yesterdays game but overall the offense in Bow;es tenure has overachieved imo.  I said this earlier this year and at times last year as well and got roasted for it.  Our defense is monumentally overrated so far during Bowles tenure.  All our high level draft resources are put into defense, tons of money into the secondary.  This defense is not dominant, it's average, it is either getting beat for 80 yard plays or is getting picked apart by dink and dunk TE and Rb plays.

We had our lofty big first game with 7 sacks and still let their best Wr kill us and we lost.

The schemes or execution of those schemes are terrible.  As a fan base we are constantly pre game saying 'Stop this player or two and we should do well and probably win.'  Green the 1st game, Kelce this past game, and what happens those players kill us.  Happened in key games last year as well.

I am not calling for Bowles head but he better be learning a thing or two and improve or he will be another Rex, a guy that excels and half things required to be a good coach and never looks to improve on the other things.

 

Oh as an aside our special teams still stink as well.  Love the new punter but yet another rookie return guy that not only fumbles but lobs it into the air for a score and our Fg kicker cost us game one.

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

I cant agree with that in regarding both losses. The defense was bending but really didnt break. The defense gave up 10 points yesterday yet the Chiefs scored 24 points. The Jets offense scored just 3 points. Special teams gave up a TD as well. The chiefs moved the ball but the defense didnt give up all those points, they actually saved a TD yesterday by causing a fumble which ended up being a touchback which gave the Jets the ball. Thats basically a turnover. 

That's fine.  We can disagree but the Chiefs did whatever they wanted for the most part.  The Ware non-TD was a huge break.  But any time you let a QB complete 75% of his passes, your unit has failed.  9 different receivers caught passes. Kelce and Conoly averaged over 14 per catch.   They handled the run game well but couldnt adjust to simple play calling.  Credit for maintaining a reasonable score in the face of the worst QB performance I've ever seen in my life but they looked liked swiss cheese out there. 

Of all the units, clearly they were the best...but I wouldnt exactly call it a good day for the D.  

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

11-8.

Anyone wanna guess what Bowles's record is?

Technically, Rex had 2 playoffs wins as well...but you get the point. 

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

That's fine.  We can disagree but the Chiefs did whatever they wanted for the most part.  The Ware non-TD was a huge break.  But any time you let a QB complete 75% of his passes, your unit has failed.  9 different receivers caught passes. Kelce and Conoly averaged over 14 per catch.   They handled the run game well but couldnt adjust to simple play calling.  Credit for maintaining a reasonable score in the face of the worst QB performance I've ever seen in my life but they looked liked swiss cheese out there. 

Of all the units, clearly the did the best...but I wouldnt exactly call it a good day for the D.  

+1

And, when it's clear that the best opportunity to score quickly is to let the Jets offense and special teams turn the ball over, why bother to do anything risky?

[joewilly12]

Rex made this team fun to watch cant deny that. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

+1

And, when it's clear that the best opportunity to score quickly is to let the Jets offense and special teams turn the ball over, why bother to do anything risky?

That's other part of the equation.  Smith is the ultimate game manager.  They dont want him to have to make plays and wins games.  That was quintessential Chiefs Football.   Keep it simple, dont take chances, dink and dunk and the Jets let them get comfortable doing it. 

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

That's other part of the equation.  Smith is the ultimate game manager.  They dont want him to have to make plays and wins games.  That was quintessential Chiefs Football.   Keep it simple, dont take chances, dink and dunk and the Jets let them get comfortable doing it. 

Exactly.

But you'd think after 3 ******* games of WR screens that we'd be able to defense it.

Do the Jets employ LBs or is it all DL and DBs? because that WR screen should be defensed by the LBs and they are mostly absent.

[HighPitch]

3 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

And yet he took a team who had the #6 overall pick and almost got us into the playoffs his rookie year as a head coach. He has some things he needs to work on he is still pretty new at this job.

This is the same logic people used to justify rex. 

I want to belive in bowles.  I really do. But there were lots of signs last season of him being in over his head.  I ignored it and allowed him to learn.  Unfortunately  it looks like he is in o er his head. 

Why do the patriots kick ass even with 2nd and 3rd string qbs? Its coaching and attitude that stems from coaching.  The pats on paper are not great but as a team they are the best. 

So tired of hearing "its not bowles fault enuwa dropped the ball" or the like

[ylekram]

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I am sticking to the topic. You pointed the finger and every primary coach as well as the players. How is talking about a player who had the worst day of all guys who participated NOT on topic? More importantly, how to you point the finger to "players who stunk" and NOT bring up Fitz outside of the passive "The QB shat the bed" reference. It was the worst QB performance in Jets history and you completely went around it. 

Im just wondering since you wrote me a week ago talking about "what I deserve" given all of the things spoken about Fitz during the summer. 1 week later you write this and completely omit Fitz performance. 

 

It was the topic, just part of the topic you dont want to discuss. I'll leave it alone then. 

 

I guess this Fitz thing will continue to be brought up with some damn good points. People brought that on themselves so hopefully there is no bitching about it. 

what really needs to be said about fitzpatricks game yesterday? really. even Fitzpatrick supporters can see he had the worst game in jets history. nothing really needs to be said. at all. after yesterdays game, whats left to talk about Fitzpatrick? the Fitzpatrick haters want him benched now. at most, the Fitzpatrick supporters say give him another shot, but if he pulls another stunt like this again, bench him. there really isn't much difference. stick to the topic at hand. besides the horrific qb play yesterday, the rest of the team seems to be ******* up as well. repeating fitz sucks over and over again does little. after yesterdays game, I don't think there is a person alive who will disagree with you today

[Villain The Foe]

15 minutes ago, ylekram said:

what really needs to be said about fitzpatricks game yesterday? really. even Fitzpatrick supporters can see he had the worst game in jets history. nothing really needs to be said. at all. after yesterdays game, whats left to talk about Fitzpatrick? the Fitzpatrick haters want him benched now. at most, the Fitzpatrick supporters say give him another shot, but if he pulls another stunt like this again, bench him. there really isn't much difference. stick to the topic at hand. besides the horrific qb play yesterday, the rest of the team seems to be ******* up as well. repeating fitz sucks over and over again does little. after yesterdays game, I don't think there is a person alive who will disagree with you today

You're right. I had to address some things that was said to me last week, which if you followed along you'd have read that part. 

[hawk]

Yesterday is squarely on the back of the head coach.  10 days to prepare.  10 freaking days to figure out that Alex Smith is a quick pass master.  Which I would bet every one on here already knew, even the resident trolls can't deny that one.

[ylekram]

14 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You're right. I had to address some things that was said to me last week, which if you followed along you'd have read that part. 

villain, I follow you like a stalker follows his victims

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Technically, Rex had 2 playoffs wins as well...but you get the point. 

he had 4 playoff wins

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

he had 4 playoff wins

You missed the part where I said "at this point in their careers."

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

You missed the part where I said "at this point in their careers."

you might have been thinking that but you didn't say it jiffy pop

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

In both losses, all 3 phases of the game failed.  

Thats on coaching.  

Its your job to put the right players in the right position to succeed on the field, do you see that right now in the Jets?  

When you couple that with the fact Bowles is a complete blockhead in terms of situational awareness, there is reason to be concerned. 

And the next person to show me his record and use that as some type of defense deserves a firm smack to the face.  What was Rex Ryan's record at this point in his career with the Jets?

Yeah, exactly. 

 

Just now, Smashmouth said:

you might have been thinking that but you didn't say it jiffy pop

Stop skimming 

Vote Smash

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

 

Stop skimming 

Vote Smash

lol 2 different posts

unvote Bowles

Vote JIF

[Bugg]

6 hours ago, Jolot said:

I've seen this Tiki Barber thing being thrown around since last night , not every young player who fumbles is Tiki Barber, it's an absurd comparison , J Marshall is not Tiki Barber , stop it ..so every young player on every NFL team now should be allowed to fumble at will because once apon a time Tiki Barber fixed his fumbling problem ? It's a laughable argument. He's an undrafted rookie who at bare minimum should be benched , and the argument can be made should be cut outright or put on the PS...players much more talented with much more potential have been benched and cut for less by successful coaches and organizations .

Jalen Marshall has in 2 games cost the jets 14 points. That's worthy of a benching.