Would The Apologists Please Stop

[Pac]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair he really didn't go dark. He was lighting it up in the 100,000 post thread. Better contribution to this board than you ever made. Not even close.

Nobody asked you Shamu.

[SAR I]

54 minutes ago, KRL said:

It's amazing to read some of the stories in the media today "applauding" Fitzpatrick and
his performance yesterday.  Are people's standards so low for a QB that if he doesn't turn
the ball over 3+ times it's a "good day".  Stop!!!  Over the past three games Fitzpatrick
has led the offense to ZERO points in the second half.  The TD scored against SEA doesn't 
count because it came off a fumble in which everybody stopped and Peake picked it up.

No one is taking it easy on Ryan Fitzpatrick.  It's about living up to ability and expectations.

Some of us are intelligent enough to understand that he is 34 years old and on his 6th team in 11 years.  That he is not capable of playing better than he is now.  That he's a journeyman and you judge him by journeyman standards.

If the defense lived up to its ability and expectations we'd be 4-1 right now.  Focus on that side of the ball.  It's why we are in the hole we are in right now.

SAR I

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

Nobody asked you Shamu.

Yep, You the guy that sits in the splash zone then complains when he gets soaked.

[TomsRiverJet]

Thanks KRL for venting as I have been also since yesterday. Here are some of mine.

Bilal Powell - use him. Forte isn't doing anything. On 3rd and one in the red zone how about some Bilal Powell and stop with the passes. In the 1st qtr we blew the pass and settled for the FG. We need 7, not 3. 

Can we down a punt inside the 10? Two chances, blew it both times.

We actually have a tight end!. Amazing! 

Todd Bowles grow some balls. You blew it yesterday. The post game " I thought our defense could hold them to a 3 and out" talking about the 4th and 1 decision to punt the ball and not go for the 1st down,. Lost all confidence in you as a coach right there. News flash... our defense can't stop anybody. 

Can we fire the defensive coordinator? Send a signal , do something!

Sad to say but did we even miss. Harris, Revis or Mangold who were out or went out with injuries? 

Defense? What Defense? 

 

[dbatesman]

25 minutes ago, Pac said:

I'd say you and your ilk are a vomitous pack of vultures.

For months you berated, chastised, and flooded these boards with Geno Smith hate and name-calling for anyone who dared question Fitz.

Now that your entire platform has come crumbling down, and all those people you tried to bully have been proven 100% right, you have the audacity to act like it's anyone but your pack of freaks that have been doing the whining.

Like I said..  a vile bunch.  The lot of you.

 

Fitz is bad, which means that Geno, is Good

[Jetdawgg]

The D is configured as a 4 man DL with 3/4 LB'ers. It should be easy to see why the secondary suffers so much. The Safety position is under constant pressure as the Jets do not have the speed rusher necessary to put sustainable pressure on the QB. No speed rusher from the DL and not one from the LB Corps.

most of the sacks come from the DT position. 

The LB'ing Corps also leaves gaps in the underneath zones that also puts pressure on the S position. This is a FO problem. No way can Bowles and KC be blamed for signing and delivering these players. 

[BallinPB]

I believe you are referring to the trash of an article that Cimini posted this morning.  

[Snell41]

No one is taking it easy on Ryan Fitzpatrick.  It's about living up to ability and expectations.
Some of us are intelligent enough to understand that he is 34 years old and on his 6th team in 11 years.  That he is not capable of playing better than he is now.  That he's a journeyman and you judge him by journeyman standards.
If the defense lived up to its ability and expectations we'd be 4-1 right now.  Focus on that side of the ball.  It's why we are in the hole we are in right now.
SAR I

So to be clear your expectation is our D should have held opponents to less than 13, 10, 3, and 22 points respectively.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Integrity28]

11 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

I'm not a Geno Smith fan, and the OP had nothing to do with Geno Smith. I hate to bring up "haters" and "lovers" because if you use the word "hater" to shrug off criticism, you are a fool. That's slightly off topic, but there is middle ground, and I've been saying it since the offseason. Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick are both dogsh*t. I don't agree when someone says anything positive about either QB, because there is nothing good to say about either QB.

Yea, I get it. I've said from the beginning, neither is good, so go with the guy that brings the best out of his teammates. I've always believed chemistry is a fundamental part of a team taking the next step towards a playoff run. Last year, we saw the benefits of chemistry. This year, it's a mess.

Most of the arguing, for me at least, is about the bad logic being perpetuated by the pro-Geno folks. Occasionally, you'll see a pro-Fitz argument hinging upon bad logic, but not usually. It's like the pro-Geno crowd also happens to be the blatantly dim crowd too, so the bad logic comes hand-in-hand with that... save for a few exceptions.

[NYJ37/12]

46 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think forte is ok, the line is bad w/o mangold and winters.  but the offense is trying, unlike the defense.  the offense has inferior weapons with fitz.  the defense has talent.  these guys would be playing better for other teams.  there are about 6 or 7 guys on defense who would be great on other teams.

He's slow to the hole, has no burst and missed some lanes yesterday. He's a nice back but is showing his age.

[EM31]

Can we get to Petty time already?  We will all get to take a look at the long shot who might be our future at the same time a cementing the fact that Geno Smith never will be.

Two birds one stone.

[phill1c]

Here's the thing, Smith fans AREN'T THE POSTERS BRINGING HIM UP, YOU GUYS ARE!!!

YOU, SmallBlock brought him up, followed by your small dick buddies piling on.

stop blaming smith and his fans for your boy's putrid performances. Accept that you were wrong and get on with your lives. Don't be Todd Bowles!!

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said:

He's slow to the hole, has no burst and missed some lanes yesterday. He's a nice back but is showing his age.

He was showing his age 2 years ago. I've said it all offseason, he's not really a productive running back anymore. He should be getting 8 targets a game in the passing game, because he's still a fantastic receiver, and maybe 8-10 carries. Khiry and Powell should have been the primary runners. 

I'm extremely disappointed in how much Gailey has mis-used people this year. Normally, his reputation is to get the most of what guys do well. He's not really doing that this year. Nevermind that the execution has been awful too.

Bowles is really mis-using guys a lot too. Just a mess.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

He was showing his age 2 years ago. I've said it all offseason, he's not really a productive running back anymore. He should be getting 8 targets a game in the passing game, because he's still a fantastic receiver, and maybe 8-10 carries. Khiry and Powell should have been the primary runners. 

I'm extremely disappointed in how much Gailey has mis-used people this year. Normally, his reputation is to get the most of what guys do well. He's not really doing that this year. Nevermind that the execution has been awful too.

Bowles is really mis-using guys a lot too. Just a mess.

forte averaged 4.4 yards per rush.  he's not the problem.

[rex-n-effect]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

forte averaged 4.4 yards per rush.  he's not the problem.

That average only looks okay because it has one long run stretching out the average. Otherwise he was unimpressive. 

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

forte averaged 4.4 yards per rush.  he's not the problem.

I'm not calling him the problem. 

I'm saying, pretty clearly, that he's been on a statistical decline for the past couple of years. Specifically in the running game. I don't care what his rushing average is, it doesn't change the fact that he's never been a good runner between the tackles, and has only gotten worse as he's aged. His average run/attempt yesterday is inflated by the one 28 yard run, and the fact that teams are giving us the run and sitting on routes looking for INTs.

He should be used as a receiver, especially with Decker out, while Powell is pounding the ball into their DL to wear them out. Powell gets downhill faster, and with more authority. Chicago always has a complementary back paired with Forte to use in this capacity. Forte made his living between the 20's and in the passing game. Our staff gets him in here, and it's as if they'd never seen tape of how he plays best.

[BroadwayJets]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Yea, I get it. I've said from the beginning, neither is good, so go with the guy that brings the best out of his teammates. I've always believed chemistry is a fundamental part of a team taking the next step towards a playoff run. Last year, we saw the benefits of chemistry. This year, it's a mess.

Most of the arguing, for me at least, is about the bad logic being perpetuated by the pro-Geno folks. Occasionally, you'll see a pro-Fitz argument hinging upon bad logic, but not usually. It's like the pro-Geno crowd also happens to be the blatantly dim crowd too, so the bad logic comes hand-in-hand with that... save for a few exceptions.

It's a real sh*tshow, and the FO is to blame. We can sit here and talk about how limited Fitz is, but at the end of the day, the QB should be making your receivers better, not the other way around. The FO should know this better than their fans, they did not. They named him the starter 7 months before he joined the fcking team. The FO succumbed to the pressure, paid a journeyman who held out(!), and got duped by reality.

"If you listen to the fans, you'll be sitting with them" (ironically) - Charley Casserly

And yes, Geno "lovers" have short-term memory loss. I was in the boat to not pay Fitz, while believing Geno could potentially mimic some of the success Fitz had year last season because he's physically more capable, and had another year in the offense. The PS changed my mind, for both QBs. Still very much in the boat that not resigning Fitz would have been better value.

[SAR I]

14 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

So to be clear your expectation is our D should have held opponents to less than 13, 10, 3, and 22 points respectively.

No, my expectation going into this season is that we were going to open 1-5 because we don't have a quarterback or a defense capable of beating the murderer's row of elite playoff teams we are facing, almost all of them on the road.

If you were one of the gullible who looked at last year's 10 wins, believed Fitzpatrick could replicate last year, thought Forte was an improvement over Ivory, thought McLendon was an improvement over Snacks, thought Revis would play at a high level, thought Lee and Pryor's speed was going to make the difference and lead us to the playoffs, well, that's on you.  Sorry you guessed wrong.  Sorry your assumptions were weak.

Point being, no one should have had any expectation that we'd be better than 1-4 right now.  If you did, that's for you and your conscience to debate, has nothing to do with the journeyman quarterback's level of play.

SAR I

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No, my expectation going into this season is that we were going to open 1-5 because we don't have a quarterback or a defense capable of beating the murderer's row of elite playoff teams we are facing, almost all of them on the road.

If you were one of the gullible who looked at last year's 10 wins, believed Fitzpatrick could replicate last year, thought Forte was an improvement over Ivory, thought McLendon was an improvement over Snacks, thought Revis would play at a high level, thought Lee and Pryor's speed was going to make the difference and lead us to the playoffs, well, that's on you.  Sorry you guessed wrong.  Sorry your assumptions were weak.

Point being, no one should have had any expectation that we'd be better than 1-4 right now.  If you did, that's for you and your conscience to debate, has nothing to do with the journeyman quarterback's level of play.

SAR I

 

if the better qb wins most of the time, fitz is worse than dalton, smith, wilson and big ben.  and he's worse than carson palmer.  bingo, 1-5.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I'm not calling him the problem. 

I'm saying, pretty clearly, that he's been on a statistical decline for the past couple of years. Specifically in the running game. I don't care what his rushing average is, it doesn't change the fact that he's never been a good runner between the tackles, and has only gotten worse as he's aged. His average run/attempt yesterday is inflated by the one 28 yard run, and the fact that teams are giving us the run and sitting on routes looking for INTs.

He should be used as a receiver, especially with Decker out, while Powell is pounding the ball into their DL to wear them out. Powell gets downhill faster, and with more authority. Chicago always has a complementary back paired with Forte to use in this capacity. Forte made his living between the 20's and in the passing game. Our staff gets him in here, and it's as if they'd never seen tape of how he plays best.

i agree that powell should be used more.  but the offense isn't suffering b/c of forte.  it's bad b/c the qb is inaccurate, can't throw long and locks into marshall or the rbs every play.  

[FidelioJet]

This is an all around team problem....

1) QB is the first and largest issue.  Fitz isn't good enough to win games (he needs to play with a lead and have a very good defense)

2) There is not an impact player on this team.  Marshall is the best player on the team, but even he drops too many key balls...Our high priced players on D, Revis and Mo are not dominant players.  Mo, while better than average, isn't a dominant player  Revis isn't any more.

3) Our two RB's are old and a Jag...

In the NFL you need players on offense and defense that will step up and make the big plays that win games.  The Jets simply don't have anyone that can do that on either side of the ball - good teams have 3 or 4 of them..

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

It's a real sh*tshow, and the FO is to blame. We can sit here and talk about how limited Fitz is, but at the end of the day, the QB should be making your receivers better, not the other way around. The FO should know this better than their fans, they did not. They named him the starter 7 months before he joined the fcking team. The FO succumbed to the pressure, paid a journeyman who held out(!), and got duped by reality.

"If you listen to the fans, you'll be sitting with them" (ironically) - Charley Casserly

And yes, Geno "lovers" have short-term memory loss. I was in the boat to not pay Fitz, while believing Geno could potentially mimic some of the success Fitz had year last season because he's physically more capable, and had another year in the offense. The PS changed my mind, for both QBs. Still very much in the boat that not resigning Fitz would have been better value.

I wanted a cheaper stopgap, at one point I think I suggested Chase Daniel. In hindsight, looking at how well young QBs are playing, I think baptism by fire for Petty would have been the better approach... however, Petty looked like dookie until that one day in camp he bottomed out and went 0-fer. After that, like I pointed out at the time, the light seemed to go on. So, given when he started to click, you have to expect the coaches wouldn't roll with him. 

Unfortunately, this season is going to be defined by over-committing to veterans. You know, the sh*t the Pats never do, we've got old offensive players lobbying for an old QB to come back for the feel-goods, and an old Revis turning out to be a rusted lynchpin to the whole defense.

Rebuild just took a huge step backward.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i agree that powell should be used more.  but the offense isn't suffering b/c of forte.  it's bad b/c the qb is inaccurate, can't throw long and locks into marshall or the rbs every play.  

Never said it was. I appreciate that you want to take an exchange that is specifically about the mis-use of Forte and make it about the QB, the only thing you seem to know how to talk about, but I'm going to kindly ask you to go **** yourself. Not every strain of dialogue here needs to be force-fed into the idiot-mill so that it can be part of the QB bickerfest. There's a lot more that goes on on Sundays. Some of us, that understand what we're watching, like to discuss all of it.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I wanted a cheaper stopgap, at one point I think I suggested Chase Daniel. In hindsight, looking at how well young QBs are playing, I think baptism by fire for Petty would have been the better approach... however, Petty looked like dookie until that one day in camp he bottomed out and went 0-fer. After that, like I pointed out at the time, the light seemed to go on. So, given when he started to click, you have to expect the coaches wouldn't roll with him. 

Unfortunately, this season is going to be defined by over-committing to veterans. You know, the sh*t the Pats never do, we've got old offensive players lobbying for an old QB to come back for the feel-goods, and an old Revis turning out to be a rusted lynchpin to the whole defense.

Rebuild just took a huge step backward.

i don't think the rebuild took a step backwards - it's just delayed.  no petty, no hack, peake/jalin marshall/robbie anderson/devin smith/ASJ are not focal points of offense.  this year's team is all about trying to make the playoffs with veterans.  the preseason narrative was all about fitz/brandon marshall/revis/harris/forte/mangold as the vanguards of the team.  well, fitz sucks, revis is no longer a #1 cb, mangold and harris are breaking down.  this is where mccags drafting and scouting comes in, if the guys he's bringing in can lead to a bright future.  

[BroadwayJets]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

I wanted a cheaper stopgap, at one point I think I suggested Chase Daniel. In hindsight, looking at how well young QBs are playing, I think baptism by fire for Petty would have been the better approach... however, Petty looked like dookie until that one day in camp he bottomed out and went 0-fer. After that, like I pointed out at the time, the light seemed to go on. So, given when he started to click, you have to expect the coaches wouldn't roll with him. 

Unfortunately, this season is going to be defined by over-committing to veterans. You know, the sh*t the Pats never do, we've got old offensive players lobbying for an old QB to come back for the feel-goods, and an old Revis turning out to be a rusted lynchpin to the whole defense.

Rebuild just took a huge step backward.

Agreed all around.

[Integrity28]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

i don't think the rebuild took a step backwards - it's just delayed.  no petty, no hack, peake/jalin marshall/robbie anderson/devin smith/ASJ are not focal points of offense.  this year's team is all about trying to make the playoffs with veterans.  the preseason narrative was all about fitz/brandon marshall/revis/harris/mangold as the vanguards of the team.  well, fitz sucks, revis is no longer a #1 cb, mangold and harris are breaking down.  this is where mccags drafting and scouting comes in, if the guys he's bringing in can lead to a bright future.  

Last year, we had a secondary. This year, we do not. That's not a delay, that's a step backward.

If we're losing players faster than the rate of replacement, then we are moving backwards.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

Dang jets beat writers always sugar coating everything

The beat writers, for the most part, are infatuated with Fitz.  For whatever reason they pushed for him hard all off season and have fully supported him more than I have seen any Jets QB.

He is not a legitimate NFL starting QB and never was..  The Cimini article called this 13 point performance against an average steeler Defense "slump busting" for Fitzpatrick.  He was awful yesterday.  It's hard to imagine anyone watching that game and thinking anything else.

[UnitedWhofans]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

 

Rebuild just took a huge step backward.

On the contrary, it's going according to plan.

The high priced veterans will start coming off the block and the young players will have a year of experience under their belt. 

IN fact, the injuries are a blessing in disguise, because the younger players get to play more.

[August]

Anybody that ever said we'd be bad without Fitzpatrick as the starting QB you are not in a position to make excuses. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

The beat writers, for the most part, are infatuated with Fitz.  For whatever reason they pushed for him hard all off season and have fully supported him more than I have seen any Jets QB.

He is not a legitimate NFL starting QB and never was..  The Cimini article called this 13 point performance against an average steeler Defense "slump busting" for Fitzpatrick.  He was awful yesterday.  It's hard to imagine anyone watching that game and thinking anything else.

They lobbied for him in the offseason. To turn around now would be hypocritical

[Pac]

34 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Fitz is bad, which means that Geno, is Good

Fitz has proven he sucks with this team and coordinator, which means that Geno, we don't know.

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Last year, we had a secondary. This year, we do not. That's not a delay, that's a step backward.

If we're losing players faster than the rate of replacement, then we are moving backwards.

the only reason we had a secondary is b/c they had an easier schedule.  now we're seeing how it stacks up against better qbs.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, Big Blocker said:

Smith Fans are the worst.  A whiny bunch on top of everything else, as if they needed to top themselves.

Once again, you're the one to bring up Geno.  Nobody else mentioned his name in this thread but you decided to derail another thread with your favorite topic.  

Well done.  You've managed to keep your favorite topic of conversation to carry over in every single thread.  

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the only reason we had a secondary is b/c they had an easier schedule.  now we're seeing how it stacks up against better qbs.

Correct. The easy schedule seemed to have a bigger impact than originally thought. I think the whole team is learning that

[RevisIsland610]

If this F'ing excuse of a football team doesn't leave it all out on the field Monday night I'm going to lose it.