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Tinstar

By Tinstar
in NY Jets Forum

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phill1c

phill1c

Posted
Posted
Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

Clearly everyone is entitled to an opinion. The overall theme here is that, for the most part, Bowles and company have a hard time making half time adjustments on both sides of the ball. That much is obvious to anyone with any kind of football common sense who watches the games. 

It would be one thing if they scored a lot of points in EITHER HALF. But they don't.

The QB is limited and his limitations are exposed the longer the game lasts. I don't really understand opinions that discount that obvious fact and attribute his play to coaching or lack of halftime adjustments. He's been crappy his entire career. Is everyone who ever coached him incapable of making half-time adjustments?

Moreover, he's a 33-year old 12-year vet. Shouldn't he be able to make some adjustments on his own?

What is it with this love affair with Fitzloser? Please explain why supposed Jets fans are supporting a choking career loser.

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CrazyCarl40

CrazyCarl40

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18 minutes ago, phill1c said:

It would be one thing if they scored a lot of points in EITHER HALF. But they don't.

The QB is limited and his limitations are exposed the longer the game lasts. I don't really understand opinions that discount that obvious fact and attribute his play to coaching or lack of halftime adjustments. He's been crappy his entire career. Is everyone who ever coached him incapable of making half-time adjustments?

Moreover, he's a 33-year old 12-year vet. Shouldn't he be able to make some adjustments on his own?

What is it with this love affair with Fitzloser? Please explain why supposed Jets fans are supporting a choking career loser.

No one is denying Fitz hasn't played poorly at times this season. He is what he is. Expecting more out of him is not on him, that's on you. I'm all for giving him his fair share of the blame when it's warranted. That said, there is no reason to not be critical of the many other ways the Jets are failing from the management to the coaches to the the players. There is plenty of blame to go around. Changing the QB, as the Jets have done twice, hasn't been a magic bullet and it won't be when he isn't the Jets starter next season. 

I don't see many Jets fans supporting him these days, just pointing out obvious follies of other Jets players. The question you should be asking is not taking Jets fans to task but the management and the coaching staff who allow him to take the field each week.

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phill1c

phill1c

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Posted
1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

No one is denying Fitz hasn't played poorly at times this season. He is what he is. Expecting more out of him is not on him, that's on you. I'm all for giving him his fair share of the blame when it's warranted. That said, there is no reason to not be critical of the many other ways the Jets are failing from the management to the coaches to the the players. There is plenty of blame to go around. Changing the QB, as the Jets have done twice, hasn't been a magic bullet and it won't be when he isn't the Jets starter next season. 

I don't see many Jets fans supporting him these days, just pointing out obvious follies of other Jets players. The question you should be asking is not taking Jets fans to task but the management and the coaching staff who allow him to take the field each week.

"...played poorly at times..." ??

Yeah, and Hurricane Katrina was a small rain storm.

Really, I don't really understand your post. I definitely expect what we've gotten out of Fitzpatrick. and, no, I don't expect more out of him. So, you've created some opinion out of whole cloth and attributed it to me that I've never said or in any way indicated. He sucks. And he should NOT be the starting QB, IMO.

And you're wrong about Jets fans not supporting this piece of QB garbage. There are several threads full of posts where people are "...pointing out the obvious follies of other Jets players" when someone dares to mention Fitzpatrick's faults. And, of course, these same people who minimize Fitzpatrick's negative effect on the Jets team are the first to say that we need a franchise QB. So, in their world, Fitzpatrick is a small part of the problem but, on the other side of their Fitzpatrick-loving mouths they cry about not having a franchise QB.

It's duplicity at its height and depth.

Fitzpatrick sucks and he's the main reason the Jets suck, if the great importance of QB play is to be accepted.

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Tinstar

Tinstar

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3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Not when you could have gotten Dak Prescott in the 2nd round instead of a QB that cant even play in a preseason game or dress as a back up. 

I've never been a fan of trading picks just to move up. I've been a fan of trading picks to acquire more though. 

There was no need to make a trade for Prescott . We could have drafted him anywhere  from the 1st to the 4th round .

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Exactly my point...so there's no need to sell everything for a rook

That depends what 'everything' is and who the rookie is.  Our 'everything; is nothing to write home about so far.  Dallas as two rooks who are currently the best players on their team.

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section314

section314

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

That depends what 'everything' is and who the rookie is.  Our 'everything; is nothing to write home about so far.  Dallas as two rooks who are currently the best players on their team.

Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick and Zack Martin holding for you on line #1.B)

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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Just now, section314 said:

Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick and Zack Martin holding for you on line #1.B)

All very good players, all a big help to the two I mentioned.  Also all players on a 4 win team last year when they had no Qb and no RB.  Having watched quite a few Dallas games this year I'll stick yo my comment.  Prescott and Elliot are there two best players and the biggest reason they are 11-1 or whatever their record is.

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Tinstar

Tinstar

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Well, he said "the entire 2016 draft" for Wentz. I'm saying no, if I can get Dak in the 2nd. 

The problem is, you have to decide in round 1 if you would trade all your draft picks for Wentz  knowing what you know now about went but not knowing that Prescott would be there in round 4 .

See, before the draft, I entertained that idea. and I think I proposed that exact deal .   

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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On 11/28/2016 at 11:57 AM, phill1c said:

NO, actually, you need a quality OL to build around. and skill players.

If this season has shown anything, it's that you can luck into a "franchise QB" if you have those other things and that a nominal "franchise QB" ain't gonna do dick if you don't have them.

The OL and RBs are good enough to support a talent like Wentz.

 

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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Just now, phill1c said:

sigh

And Wentz is good because he's won 5 games in his career.

Please, call me when he actually does something beyond his first 5 games.

How about instead of reading a stat sheet we just open our eyes and go with what we see?  Because I see a QB who's playing pretty well, looks like he has the ability to become something special.  

Funny, we want to start a Petty who is obviously in way over his head to catch a glimpse of sanything good but we need more time for a QB to show what we would kill to have one of our QBs show.

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phill1c

phill1c

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

How about instead of reading a stat sheet we just open our eyes and go with what we see?  Because I see a QB who's playing pretty well, looks like he has the ability to become something special.  

Funny, we want to start a Petty who is obviously in way over his head to catch a glimpse of sanything good but we need more time for a QB to show what we would kill to have one of our QBs show.

I don't see how Petty is really any different than Wentz...except all the hype Wentz has gotten. Started off hot, hasn't looked like anything special in a while. Has lost 5 of his last 7 games.

Unlike Nuts like you, I don't cream my pants over a guy until he's actually won something.

I'm only advocating Petty because I can't stomach Fitzpatrick. I have no idea if he'll be any good. I just see more talent in him than the present starter.

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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7 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I don't see how Petty is really any different than Wentz...except all the hype Wentz has gotten. Started off hot, hasn't looked like anything special in a while. Has lost 5 of his last 7 games.

Unlike Nuts like you, I don't cream my pants over a guy until he's actually won something.

I'm only advocating Petty because I can't stomach Fitzpatrick. I have no idea if he'll be any good. I just see more talent in him than the present starter.

Unlike me you don't get it if you can't tell the difference between Wentz and Petty.  

They're night and day.  Not on the same planet. 

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phill1c

phill1c

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Unlike me you don't get it if you can't tell the difference between Wentz and Petty.  

They're night and day.  Not on the same planet. 

I love a sentence that starts out with undeserved self-praise and ends with absurdly unsubstantiated hyperbole.

It's otherworldly.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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47 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

The problem is, you have to decide in round 1 if you would trade all your draft picks for Wentz  knowing what you know now about went but not knowing that Prescott would be there in round 4 .

See, before the draft, I entertained that idea. and I think I proposed that exact deal .   

No, I wouldn't trade my entire draft for Wentz. I would have liked to have him, but as I said in my original quote, I'm not a fan of moving up in the draft...I'd rather acquire more picks. 

And that's without knowing what Prescott would become. I didn't like it when I heard that Macc was trying to move up in the draft last spring, and I still wouldn't do it. Sam Bradford had a great rookie season...it amounted to nothing. There are quite a few guys who fit that mold, not saying that Wentz will, I actually like him alot, but if I'm the GM in charge of rebuilding this team, the last thing I want to do is take that big of risk and be wrong...especially knowing that we're not simply a quarterback away. this team needs a little of everything. what's the point of drafting the next Luck for example, when like Luck...he has no offensive line and is getting killed. 

I wouldn't sell the farm when it's my job to build the farm.

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joewilly12

joewilly12

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

No, I wouldn't trade my entire draft for Wentz. I would have liked to have him, but as I said in my original quote, I'm not a fan of moving up in the draft...I'd rather acquire more picks. 

And that's without knowing what Prescott would become. I didn't like it when I heard that Macc was trying to move up in the draft last spring, and I still wouldn't do it. Sam Bradford had a great rookie season...it amounted to nothing. There are quite a few guys who fit that mold, not saying that Wentz will, I actually like him alot, but if I'm the GM in charge of rebuilding this team, the last thing I want to do is take that big of risk and be wrong...especially knowing that we're not simply a quarterback away. this team needs a little of everything. what's the point of drafting the next Luck for example, when like Luck...he has no offensive line and is getting killed. 

I wouldn't sell the farm when it's my job to build the farm.

I would trade the entire 2017 draft for a QB as good as Wentz..............

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

I would trade the entire 2017 draft for a QB as good as Wentz..............

Wentz is a rookie that has proved nothing. He's currently not even the best qb drafted this year. As stated, people would have said the same during Sam Bradford's rookie season...or Vince Young's or RG3. 

Successful GM's don't sell everything. 

 

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drdetroit

drdetroit

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wentz is a rookie that has proved nothing. He's currently not even the best qb drafted this year. As stated, people would have said the same during Sam Bradford's rookie season...or Vince Young's or RG3. 

Successful GM's don't sell everything. 

 

Wentz has played very well and is going to be a good pro.  Prescott is having a historic year hard to kill Wentz for not being better than him

 

 

I was screaming for Wentz 11 months ago

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bealeb319

bealeb319

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Posted

It probably would have costed more. Eagles gave 2 firsts a second third and fourth i think to move up from 8 might have cost us two drafts to get Wentz. Not knowing what he was going to turn into i wouldnt have made the trade heck there is still a chance he ends up being a bad QB look at Foles.

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joewilly12

joewilly12

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wentz is a rookie that has proved nothing. He's currently not even the best qb drafted this year. As stated, people would have said the same during Sam Bradford's rookie season...or Vince Young's or RG3. 

Successful GM's don't sell everything. 

 

LOL Wentz is 100x better than any QB on our roster. 

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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5 hours ago, phill1c said:

I love a sentence that starts out with undeserved self-praise and ends with absurdly unsubstantiated hyperbole.

It's otherworldly.

Sure it is.  

And this from someone who freely admits that he can't see the difference between Wentz and Petty. 

Other than for the hype they'd be one and the same. 

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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8 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Wentz has played very well and is going to be a good pro.  Prescott is having a historic year hard to kill Wentz for not being better than him

 

 

I was screaming for Wentz 11 months ago

Screaming about someone doesn't mean you sell the farm. No one even glanced at Prescott and this dude is a monster. 

All I'm saying is that it is foolish imo to give away everything for Wentz...pre hindsight when you have holes everywhere else.

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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9 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 


The hell he wasn't, reports were we did make an offer to move up and damn near pulled it off. Whatever was needed to put us over the edge should have been given.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

There's a huge difference in looking into what it would take to move up in the draft and being able to move up in the draft.  We have no idea that it was even possible.

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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10 hours ago, phill1c said:

Aside from being impossible, it's not what I said.

Feel free to continue sucking Wentz's dick. for all the good it will do you, at least you're happy.

Yup, saying Wentz is passing the eye test is sucking his dick.  

You must be quick to suck dick. 

Which banned a$$hole are you? 

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Jet Nut

Jet Nut

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1 minute ago, gEYno said:

You have a lot of problems.

Yeah, it's me.  

How about reading the posts before commenting on them. When someone tells me I'm sucking someone's dick because I said he passes the eye test, I'll respond accordingly. 

Unlike you who will just comment

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phill1c

phill1c

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Posted
Just now, Jet Nut said:

Yup, saying Wentz is passing the eye test is sucking his dick.  

You must be quick to suck dick. 

Which banned a$$hole are you? 

phill1c

I have no particular agenda against Wentz. I just think he's overhyped. And the fact is that most of the people who are hyping him jump on and off of QB bandwagons like open-air tourist busses. And then, when the guy eventually flames out, they turn to some other guy with three starts or just coming out of college and the process starts all over again. they cry "there'll never be another guy like ______" and then there is or someone like Prescott surprises.

So, no, I wouldn't trade an entire draft for ANY QB because there are so many guys who, even if they pass the eye test, aren't assured of succeeding beyond guys that don't. It's really mostly about the talent surrounding them. A QB can't throw to himself or block pass rushers himself. He's one part of a team and without those other parts, he's nothing. And there are too many people that, if surrounded with talent, can perform adequately. And there are also too many Andrew Lucks, Cutlers, to get all drooley over someone else's QB.

Fix the ******* team and a QB will emerge.

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