PepPep Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Tinstar said: Knowing what you know today, would you have traded your entire draft in 2016 for a shot at Carson Wentz ? I would have : To answer the question: YES. BUT! That would only be under the assumption that Hack turns out to be a bust and Wentz does as well in the Jets system as he did in the Eagles system- and continues to perform (no one-year wonder business). If both of those were to hold true- yes, you forfeit the potential of Lee, Jenkins, Burris, Shell, Peake and Lac to get a franchise QB. Having said that, the OBVIOUS best case scenario is that Hack turns into a legit starter for the Jets and becomes THEIR franchise QB. I have no reason to believe he will or won't at this point in time. This would be a much easier question to answer if not for the Hack selection and the fact that we have seen so little of him on the field. The other thing I will add is that I am not sure the Jets would even be able to move up by giving up the whole 2016 draft. That's a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and two 7s. Not sure that a team would want that over multiple first round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 9 minutes ago, Warfish said: This. And don't forget, if the Jets use an entire draft for a player, the odds increase astronomically that the players suffers a season-ending injury in the offseason. I mean, c'mon...you KNOW this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Tinstar said: Knowing what you know today, would you have traded your entire draft in 2016 for a shot at Carson Wentz ? I would have : Not a chance 11TD's 7 INT's this season on a team that has lost 5 of its last 7. go build me an o-line first then go get the QB. Unless of course that QB is an Andrew Luck type. I would not have traded up the way the Eagles did for Wentz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepPep Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said: Without a doubt QB is the most important component. I thought Bowles might be different but he's the type of coach who would rather lose 7-6 then win 43-42. Until we get a HC who embraces the fact that the NFL is promoting and favoring offense we are doomed. I would agree if it were not for defenses still winning Super Bowls. You could easily argue the last 6 SBs were won because of defense. Either critical defensive plays or dominant defensive performances or both. The last SB I can remember that was about offense more than anything else was the Saints/Colts SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 minute ago, shawn306 said: Not a chance 11TD's 7 INT's this season on a team that has lost 5 of its last 7. go build me an o-line first then go get the QB. Unless of course that QB is an Andrew Luck type. I would not have traded up the way the Eagles did for Wentz Lots to like here. LOL dude has 11 TDs and his team has lost 5 of its last 7 games?! You guys are really desperate...and foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 48 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: You need a quality QB to build around we seem to want to build around garbage re-signing Fitzpatrick set this organization backwards and for that I blame Macc and Bowles The best OL's the Jets have had in my lifetime. 98, 09, 10. It's probably not a coincidence either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 "Without a doubt QB is the most important component..." Plenty of doubt, actually. I think OL is the most important component. Without a decent one, your QB is toast. With a dominant one, you don't need a great QB to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Well the question was about last years draft not this years. 1st rounder a speed LB that has shown promise at times but made rookie mistakes at times that is not being used well for the most part. 2nd rounder, a laughably flawed long term project QB 3rd round, a nice player but once again the great brain trust is not putting players in position to succeed. 4th round a CB that has some promise 5th round a lousy looking oline prospect A punter A WR who is behind two UDFA. A pretty easy yes to handing all those picks away for one of the top rated Qb prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I think people don't get this basic truth: The foundation of any successful offense is its offensive line. And it used to be that you won with a dominant defensive line. But in the modern game, you need fast LBs primarily, guys who speed-rush the passer, can make plays in coverage as well as stopping the run. the need for dynastic DL is diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, phill1c said: "Without a doubt QB is the most important component..." Plenty of doubt, actually. I think OL is the most important component. Without a decent one, your QB is toast. With a dominant one, you don't need a great QB to win. The Pats, the Sea hawks, Packers, Steelers have all had what you would call sub par olines at times and had great success do to their QB's Don't get me wrong I like the dominant olines but a franchise Qb can drag your team further imo than an oline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Beerfish said: The Pats, the Sea hawks, Packers, Steelers have all had what you would call sub par olines at times and had great success do to their QB's Don't get me wrong I like the dominant olines but a franchise Qb can drag your team further imo than an oline. If there OLs were bad, their QBs would be injured. So, sub-par, hardly. And, yes, if you have a QB in a system for a while, with great receivers, balance throughout, a "franchise qb" is a great weapon. But thinking that you can plug a great QB into sh*t offense and win consistently is just not accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Beerfish said: The Pats, the Sea hawks, Packers, Steelers have all had what you would call sub par olines at times and had great success do to their QB's Don't get me wrong I like the dominant olines but a franchise Qb can drag your team further imo than an oline. Ryan Fitzpatrick won 10 games behind an OL that's not any better or worst than the OL he's playing behind this year . The QB makes the difference . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flushing Roots Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Tinstar said: Knowing what you know today, would you have traded your entire draft in 2016 for a shot at Carson Wentz ? I would have : Of course. With what we know today, I would have taken Dan Marino over Ken O'Brien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, Tinstar said: Ryan Fitzpatrick won 10 games behind an OL that's not any better or worst than the OL he's playing behind this year . The QB makes the difference . Actually that is not true. you had Mangold pretty much the entire season plus you had Brick out at LT who even while declining was alot better than the crap you there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymangold Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 hour ago, phill1c said: If you say so...what is their record, btw? My point is that I'd rather see the Jets upgrade the surrounding talent and go with the guys they drafted. they're 5-5, and more competitive then the jets. i don't think their o-line is really much of an upgrade on the jets either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 12 minutes ago, shawn306 said: Actually that is not true. you had Mangold pretty much the entire season plus you had Brick out at LT who even while declining was alot better than the crap you there now. That's opinion is not shred by my . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 44 minutes ago, Tinstar said: No, Prescott was a 4th round pick and we had plenty of opportunity to draft him Yea but he was a huge character risk because he had a joint in his car so much better to have guys who don't show up for practice on your team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxAF Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 No. As much as this is a QB league. The games are won and lost in the trenches. Fix the trenches and Jets will win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peekskill68 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 56 minutes ago, RSJ said: The best OL's the Jets have had in my lifetime. 98, 09, 10. It's probably not a coincidence either. Rasmussen, Schmitt, Herman, and Hill weren't too shabby either. And that was back in the day where the DL could get away with assault and battery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, MaxAF said: No. As much as this is a QB league. The games are won and lost in the trenches. Fix the trenches and Jets will win. Too young to remember that. It's kind of funny but a lot of this fanbase sounds like the fans did in 1995 right before throwing a ton of money at O'Donnell. Parcells comes in and his first signing is a Center. Then he gets a QB off the scrap heap and almost goes to the super bowl. The 09, and 10 teams had great OL play too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 It's also similar with CB play. Can't cover forever. Need some kind of pass rush too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 51 minutes ago, heymangold said: they're 5-5, and more competitive then the jets. i don't think their o-line is really much of an upgrade on the jets either. So, you're trading your whole draft for a 5-5 QB? LOL You guys crack me up... What happened to the Petty love affair? That ONE start soured you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Question For The Board: (Since we here at JetNation have figured out AND PROVED the time/space continuum, thus allowing us the usage of time travel) Knowing what you know now would you still be a Jets fan or would you have chosen a REAL NFL football team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Just now, SoFlaJets said: Question For The Board: (Since we here at JetNation have figured out AND PROVED the time/space continuum, thus allowing us the usage of time travel) Knowing what you know now would you still be a Jets fan or would you have chosen a REAL NFL football team? Apparently, that SuperBowl III victory was Fools Gold!! I mean, you really have to be a shi!tty franchise to have fewer championships than the Knicks and Mets!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Just now, phill1c said: Apparently, that SuperBowl III victory was Fools Gold!! It looked all good on that day Phil, great winter, great spring The Joe Namath Show Bachelor After Dark, Rozelle screwing with joe made him cry but still it really looked promising, until that Kansas City game and it's pretty much been downhill ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Just now, SoFlaJets said: It looked all good on that day Phil, great winter, great spring The Joe Namath Show Bachelor After Dark, Rozelle screwing with joe made him cry but still it really looked promising, until that Kansas City game and it's pretty much been downhill ever since. a deal with the Devil was made and the curse was born... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxAF Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 hour ago, RSJ said: It's also similar with CB play. Can't cover forever. Need some kind of pass rush too. We had a nasty pass rush last year and at the beginning of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 hour ago, RSJ said: Too young to remember that. It's kind of funny but a lot of this fanbase sounds like the fans did in 1995 right before throwing a ton of money at O'Donnell. Parcells comes in and his first signing is a Center. Then he gets a QB off the scrap heap and almost goes to the super bowl. The 09, and 10 teams had great OL play too. Vinny was a Pro Bowler in 1996 as a Raven throwing for 33 tds and 4177 yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 hour ago, SoFlaJets said: Question For The Board: (Since we here at JetNation have figured out AND PROVED the time/space continuum, thus allowing us the usage of time travel) Knowing what you know now would you still be a Jets fan or would you have chosen a REAL NFL football team? You know the answer to that already . It's a part of our DNA . You can't change anymore than you can change who you are . We have only 1 chance and that's to hope that our kids don't inherit this affliction . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, Savage69 said: Vinny was a Pro Bowler in 1996 as a Raven throwing for 33 tds and 4177 yds He could and probably still throw a football better than Fitzpatrick ever could. Bill Parcells took care off Vinny, and it made the difference . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 3 hours ago, phill1c said: If you say so...what is their record, btw? My point is that I'd rather see the Jets upgrade the surrounding talent and go with the guys they drafted. Lets talk about "the guys they drafted." 1) Petty - who the coaching staff does not believe is good enough to start, nor worth giving experience to, despite the season being essentially over. 2) Hackenberg - who is so bad that he doesn't merit starting the season at 3rd string when the competition is Ryan Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith, and Bryce Petty, and Petty is kept on the roster seemingly only for the purpose of assuring that Hackenberg cannot play, and who has a million excuses about what happened to him to explain his poor college career and then his team goes on to play for the Big10 title and possibly a national championship as soon as he's gone. If the Jets ever don't suck again, it surely won't be with these two at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phill1c Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Just now, gEYno said: Lets talk about "the guys they drafted." 1) Petty - who the coaching staff does not believe is good enough to start, nor worth giving experience to, despite the season being essentially over. 2) Hackenberg - who is so bad that he doesn't merit starting the season at 3rd string when the competition is Ryan Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith, and Bryce Petty, and Petty is kept on the roster seemingly only for the purpose of assuring that Hackenberg cannot play, and who has a million excuses about what happened to him to explain his poor college career and then his team goes on to play for the Big10 title and possibly a national championship as soon as he's gone. If the Jets ever don't suck again, it surely won't be with these two at QB. the main flaw in your argument can be summed up thusly: "...who the coaching staff does not believe..." Put either of these QBs on the Dallas Cowboys and they have winning records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 3 hours ago, Tinstar said: Knowing what you know today, would you have traded your entire draft in 2016 for a shot at Carson Wentz ? I would have : This is a super easy question in hindsight... Carson Wentz or Darron Lee, Christian Hackenberg, Jordan Jenkins, Justin Burris, Brandon Shell, Lac Edwards, and Charone Peake. Wentz, easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, phill1c said: the main flaw in your argument can be summed up thusly: "...who the coaching staff does not believe..." Put either of these QBs on the Dallas Cowboys and they have winning records. Ah yes... The longstanding Jets Fan delusion that if we only had a better coach, we'd be great. lol... I don't like Bowles, per say, but you wish Bowles was the biggest problem with this team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, gEYno said: This is a super easy question in hindsight... Carson Wentz or Darron Lee, Christian Hackenberg, Jordan Jenkins, Justin Burris, Brandon Shell, Lac Edwards, and Charone Peake. Wentz, easy. Great point. My guess is you could look at virtually any Jet draft in the past decade and come to the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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