Don't spend a dime, Woody

[jetscrazey]

Look, by now we know what the NFL is about.  A team is nothing until they got a true franchise QB.  Sure, there are exceptions like the 2009/10 Jets, but if you are striving to be the exception you are doomed anyway.  Look at all the teams that consistently get into the playoffs.  What do they have in common?  To complement the franchise QB, the rest of the team's talent largely comes from drafting, not free agency.  Free agency does very little for the cause of winning unless you have those 2 prerequisites in place first, like Elway had a couple of years ago with the Broncos, and then he went out and got some free agents to push them over the top.  Any team that doesn't have those prerequisites, like the Jets, stands to benefit NOTHING getting involved in the first couple of days of free agency when the big money flows around.

In the past Woody has been obsessed with being relevant but that strategy will DOOM this franchise.  They need to be willing to suck for a few years and bide their time until they find the right QB prospect to go "all in" on, and then sell the farm to get him if they have to.  Until then, don't spend a dime and stay away from big contracts.

[Hael]

Free agency is important as well.  But I would say timing the FA is critical.  It makes sense to splurge on FA when u are Denver a few years ago and have a strong young nucleus and an aging franchise QB.  It doesn't make sense when you are going into an obvious rebuilding year.

BY all means pick up some savvy vets, but we shouldn't be in the running for the elite tier either, e.g. the Chandler Jones or the Jeffries.  By the time you need them for a playoff run, they will be too old and a cap problem.  You could roll the dice on a Glennon prospect, and that might make sense, but generally speaking pushing money into the future is the wise plan.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Hael said:

Free agency is important as well.  But I would say timing the FA is critical.  It makes sense to splurge on FA when u are Denver a few years ago and have a strong young nucleus and an aging franchise QB.  It doesn't make sense when you are going into an obvious rebuilding year.

BY all means pick up some savvy vets, but we shouldn't be in the running for the elite tier either, e.g. the Chandler Jones or the Jeffries.  By the time you need them for a playoff run, they will be too old and a cap problem.  You could roll the dice on a Glennon prospect, and that might make sense, but generally speaking pushing money into the future is the wise plan.

well yes.  but money also makes opportunities now so the jets shouldn't be so cheap so as to use free agency players as filler. and the way the cba is they only have control over their draft picks for 4 season (plus 1 for a first rounder).  then there is the coaching carousel.  if the team wants to rely on young players then they need to have stability in the front office and coaching staff.  as for a guy like glennon,  if the qb hasn't been drafted yet then free agency or trade is the way to go.  qb's are pretty long lived so if they get the right guy he can be around for 8-10 seasons.

[Sperm Edwards]

Nothing wrong with spending big on players, but (for a team like the Jets) only on players that are reasonably still going to be playing at that high level in 3-4 years. 

I could also buy into the right short term, higher end players if they're going to seriously aid in the development of a young QB.

What that means is, no more big $/yr contracts for older defenders like Revis, Cromartie, Harris. No holding onto a totally unneeded Sheldon Richardson for a 3rd straight season at another $8m, just because no one is ponying up the unrealistic, desired compensation; if the highest bidder is a late 5th rounder then lick your wound and take it. No spending $12m (rofl) for a dead end, older "starting" QB who loses every game the opposition scores a moderate amount of points. And no handing a past-prime RB a multi-yr guaranteed starter money contract until age 33, negating a draft pick in the process.

I get the idea of filling every position before the draft, and generally agree with it. But fill stopgap roles wih stopgap players; not with players making so much it heavily influences the team to stay away from a high end prospect at that premiere position in the draft (or the following year in FA due to a multi-yr guarantee).

[section314]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Nothing wrong with spending big on players, but (for a team like the Jets) only on players that are reasonably still going to be playing at that high level in 3-4 years. 

I could also buy into the right short term, higher end players if they're going to seriously aid in the development of a young QB.

What that means is, no more big $/yr contracts for older defenders like Revis, Cromartie, Harris. No holding onto a totally unneeded Sheldon Richardson for a 3rd straight season at another $8m, just because no one is ponying up the unrealistic, desired compensation; if the highest bidder is a late 5th rounder then lick your wound and take it. No spending $12m (rofl) for a dead end, older "starting" QB who loses every game the opposition scores a moderate amount of points. And no handing a past-prime RB a multi-yr guaranteed starter money contract until age 33, negating a draft pick in the process.

I get the idea of filling every position before the draft, and generally agree with it. But fill stopgap roles wih stopgap players; not with players making so much it heavily influences the team to stay away from a high end prospect at that premiere position in the draft (or the following year in FA due to a multi-yr guarantee).

Great post, and the highlighted part should be the plan going forward. You and I have butted heads in the past( Hackenberg, most notably), but I am with you 100% on this one.

[T0mShane]

Shouldn't this be addressed to Woody's younger brother Corky Johnson? 

[nyjbuddy]

Agreed, the Jets should not be spending a lot in free agency.  Here is some interesting statistics about this past year's starting lineup makeup.  Approximately 37.9% of starting players were signed as free agents and not on their original team.  Approximately 32.7% on the offensive side (11 starters), 38.4% on the defensive side(11 starters) and 55.2% on special teams (3 starters, PK, P, LS).  Here are the top 9 teams with the least amount of starting players that were originally on other teams (in order from least to most): DAL, LARams, GB, CIN, KC, NE, NO, PIT, SEA.  All of them have 7 or fewer players, or to put it another way, they have 18 or more players still on their original team through the draft.  6 of those were playoff teams while 2 (NO and CIN) had down years.  The Rams are an anomaly. On the other end of the spectrum here are the top 9 teams that have the most free agent starters (in order from most to least): AZ, PHI, OAK, CLE, CHI, TEN, NYJ, JAX, DEN.  OAK made the playoffs and DEN and AZ had down years.  But 4 of those 9 are in the top 6 of the draft and some: CLE and JAX have been there often in recent years.  Building through the draft seems to be the way to go.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, section314 said:

Great post, and the highlighted part should be the plan going forward. You and I have butted heads in the past( Hackenberg, most notably), but I am with you 100% on this one.

I don't see what the big deal is. Hackenberg was horrible to the point of being unusable as a rookie, even as a backup. He will either improve to the point of being an asset to the Jets or he won't.

But to the point I was making in the above quote, it's the philosophy he should have adopted in his first year here. What a colossal waste. The only thing worse than winning 4-5 games after hoarding cap room is winning 4-5 games after maxing out not only the prior year's cap but further spent well into the following year's cap.

[SAR I]

19 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

In the past Woody has been obsessed with being relevant but that strategy will DOOM this franchise.  They need to be willing to suck for a few years and bide their time until they find the right QB prospect to go "all in" on

....or, how about this:  Everything you think you know is wrong.

The most success this franchise has had in 47 years occurred with mediocre draft picks, an over-reliance on over-the-hill free agents, the guidance of a failed head coach, and with a quarterback who isn't even a qualified backup.

SAR I

[RoadFan]

14 minutes ago, SAR I said:

....or, how about this:  Everything you think you know is wrong.

The most success this franchise has had in 47 years occurred with mediocre draft picks, an over-reliance on over-the-hill free agents, the guidance of a failed head coach, and with a quarterback who isn't even a qualified backup.

SAR I

And that lasted what? Two years?  Or even less considering the first of the two required Peyton and the Colts to lay down in the 2nd half. 

Sustained success will require two or 3 years of tanking.  That or hitting the QB lottery.  And one thing about this franchise nobody will argue, is that they are rarely lucky.  

[dbatesman]

Dumb OP, everyone knows FA is how smart teams build

[jetscrazey]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

....or, how about this:  Everything you think you know is wrong.

The most success this franchise has had in 47 years occurred with mediocre draft picks, an over-reliance on over-the-hill free agents, the guidance of a failed head coach, and with a quarterback who isn't even a qualified backup.

SAR I

So the past sucked.  Why is that a reason to pursue a strategy we know isn't winning us any titles?

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, RoadFan said:

And that lasted what? Two years?  Or even less considering the first of the two required Peyton and the Colts to lay down in the 2nd half. 

Sustained success will require two or 3 years of tanking.  That or hitting the QB lottery.  And one thing about this franchise nobody will argue, is that they are rarely lucky.  

You act like two years is a short amount of time, like it's something bad.  How long did the Seattle Seahawks run last?  The Denver Broncos?  The New Orleans Saints?  The Baltimore Ravens?  The New York Giants?  The Green Bay Packers?  Those are the last 6 Super Bowl Champions not named the New England Patriots.

The myth of the "franchise quarterback"?  Peyton Manning won two Super Bowl's.  Drew Brees won one Super Bowl.  Aaron Rodgers won one Super Bowl.  Philip Rivers never came close. 

The myth of the "rebuilding through patience"?  Go talk to a Buffalo Bills fan (18 years without playoffs), Cleveland Browns fan (15 years), an Oakland Raiders fan (13 years), Jacksonville Jaguars fan (9 years), or any number of fans of teams who had plenty of lousy seasons, thought they were "rebuilding", and only learned that they were sucking.

Woody Johnson was onto something.  Being the George Steinbrenner of football wasn't so bad.  We came within 60 minutes of the Super Bowl trying it that way.  Better than being the Cleveland Browns in green uniforms.

SAR I

[SAR I]

54 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

So the past sucked.  Why is that a reason to pursue a strategy we know isn't winning us any titles?

We might have actually won a Super Bowl if a few bounces went our way and a few injuries didn't happen, and it was following the Steinbrenner approach. 

If the draft is too risky.
If developing homegrown talent is too lengthy.
If you're not in a position to draft a sure-thing franchise QB.
If you have the cap space...

...why not cherry-pick the free agent pool for players who have shown some life already, are validated NFL caliber players?  Why not let some other franchise take all the risks and patiently develop playmakers and they go scoop 'em up on the cheap towards the end of their careers?  The '09 and '10 Jets are a bust if not for LaDanian Tomlinson, Plaxico Burress, Thomas Jones, Braylon Edwards, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Calvin Pace, Tony Richardson, Antonio Cromartie, Nick Folk, Kris Jenkins, Jason Taylor, those are some of the best Jets we've seen in the last 30 years, they were all cheap by free agent standards.  Not every guy we signed was a Bart Scott or a Santonio Holmes on the pocketbook.

SAR I

[jetscrazey]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

...why not cherry-pick the free agent pool for players who have shown some life already, are validated NFL caliber players?  

Well, for one, the current salary cap carryover rules.  But also because ending out a couple of more useless wins can be the difference between a franchise QB and a role player.

[sourceworx]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

We might have actually won a Super Bowl if a few bounces went our way and a few injuries didn't happen, and it was following the Steinbrenner approach. 

If the draft is too risky.
If developing homegrown talent is too lengthy.
If you're not in a position to draft a sure-thing franchise QB.
If you have the cap space...

...why not cherry-pick the free agent pool for players who have shown some life already, are validated NFL caliber players?  Why not let some other franchise take all the risks and patiently develop playmakers and they go scoop 'em up on the cheap towards the end of their careers?  The '09 and '10 Jets are a bust if not for LaDanian Tomlinson, Plaxico Burress, Thomas Jones, Braylon Edwards, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Calvin Pace, Tony Richardson, Antonio Cromartie, Nick Folk, Kris Jenkins, Jason Taylor, those are some of the best Jets we've seen in the last 30 years, they were all cheap by free agent standards.  Not every guy we signed was a Bart Scott or a Santonio Holmes on the pocketbook.

SAR I

I hate it when you're right.....

[SAR I]

8 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

Well, for one, the current salary cap carryover rules.  But also because ending out a couple of more useless wins can be the difference between a franchise QB and a role player.

Salary cap carryover favors the Jets as much as any other franchise, we are free to outbid other teams for the older vets out there.

There are no franchise quarterbacks.  We are chasing windmills.

SAR I

[DoubleDown]

I don't really buy into these types of generalizations.

Quality teams are built through the draft and free agency.  Quality teams have a good balance of proven veteran leadership and young talent.  The key is to make the right decisions in both areas.  The order in which you do it makes little difference.

The Jets should absolutely be players in free agency if they identify players who can be the foundation of this team for the next 4-5 years.  The fact that they may or may not have the QB of the future on the roster should not deter them from improving and building up the core of the roster.  It's never a bad time to add a proven talent who fits the system, provides veteran leadership, and is in the prime of his career as long as the price tag is reasonable.

[Beerfish]

Send this to the bat phone in London asap!

[BRONX DUDE]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 8:40 AM, T0mShane said:

Shouldn't this be addressed to Woody's younger brother Corky Johnson? 

CORKY?   I hope you are kidding me?  Any guy with the nickname Corky should be involved in the NFL.

[BrickzNY]

I have zero interest in watching the Jets suck like the Browns for the next 10 years only for the sucking to just continue for 10 more years because all of their homegrown talent left for a better organization. 

[Charlie Brown]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

You act like two years is a short amount of time, like it's something bad.  How long did the Seattle Seahawks run last?  The Denver Broncos?  The New Orleans Saints?  The Baltimore Ravens?  The New York Giants?  The Green Bay Packers?  Those are the last 6 Super Bowl Champions not named the New England Patriots.

The myth of the "franchise quarterback"?  Peyton Manning won two Super Bowl's.  Drew Brees won one Super Bowl.  Aaron Rodgers won one Super Bowl.  Philip Rivers never came close. 

The myth of the "rebuilding through patience"?  Go talk to a Buffalo Bills fan (18 years without playoffs), Cleveland Browns fan (15 years), an Oakland Raiders fan (13 years), Jacksonville Jaguars fan (9 years), or any number of fans of teams who had plenty of lousy seasons, thought they were "rebuilding", and only learned that they were sucking.

Woody Johnson was onto something.  Being the George Steinbrenner of football wasn't so bad.  We came within 60 minutes of the Super Bowl trying it that way.  Better than being the Cleveland Browns in green uniforms.

SAR I

Ummm this 1000%!!!!

There isn't one way to win and waiting for the Godlike Franchise QB could doom this franchise from playing meaningful playoff games for the next 30 years!!!

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, BrickzNY said:

I have zero interest in watching the Jets suck like the Browns for the next 10 years only for the sucking to just continue for 10 more years because all of their homegrown talent left for a better organization. 

BIngo.

One doesn't have to look very far to see what free agent talent can do to a franchise.  Look at the 2015 Jets offense, look at the 2016 Giants defense.  Radically transformed overnight from doormats to contenders. 

And it's easier to get a free agent pick right vs. a draft pick.  You've got a 3+ year NFL body of work to look at with free agents.  College boys are mere children.

SAR I

[southparkcpa]

On 2/8/2017 at 8:40 AM, T0mShane said:

Shouldn't this be addressed to Woody's younger brother Corky Johnson? 

Woody and Corky.....  the elite names of Billionares. SMH

[SAR I]

18 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Ummm this 1000%!!!!

There isn't one way to win and waiting for the Godlike Franchise QB could doom this franchise from playing meaningful playoff games for the next 30 years!!!

Precisely.

We were one of the most successful AFC franchises during the past 20 years in terms of playoff appearances because we did not sit pat while Brady, Mannning, and Roethlisberger were running roughshod over the conference.  We were aggressive in free agency, competed hard, didn't act like the Bills or Dolphins who spent very little and accomplished nothing.  There was a strategy here:

Testaverde saved us from O'Donnell, Favre saved us from Pennington, Sanchez held the fort after Favre, Fitzpatrick set records after the failure of Geno.  Parcells discipline restored order after Kotite, Edwards was player-friendly after military man Groh, Mangini was tough after Edwards lethargy, Ryan was easy after Mangini's autocracy.  And then free agent playmakers like LaDanian Tomlinson, Plaxico Burress, Thomas Jones, Braylon Edwards, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Calvin Pace, Tony Richardson, Antonio Cromartie, Nick Folk, Kris Jenkins, and Jason Taylor were cheap and filled needed roles they were known-quantities for.  Not any of these cost us what Bart Scott or Santonio Holmes did.

The Jets did many things wrong.  In their quest to be competitive in a big city with big expectations, the Steinbrenner Strategy was something they did right.

SAR I

[jetscrazey]

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

There are no franchise quarterbacks.  We are chasing windmills.

SAR I

Well as long as we have that mentality we aren't winning sh*t, so why bother?

[SAR I]

26 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Well as long as we have that mentality we aren't winning sh*t, so why bother?

When Brady retires things will change markedly.  When he and Roethlisberger are gone, there aren't any quarterbacks in the AFC to be very afraid of, the playing field will be more even, and we'll have a chance to compete for a division title and homefield advantage again.

SAR I

[dcJet]

No free agents this year, because the timing is perfect to suck.   Bad team, bad coach, kid QB's to "learn" and franchise-potential QB to draft as the reward.