Is Macc really smart or really stupid?

[j4jets]

On 3/16/2017 at 3:39 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm ok with that -- if it's for a player on offense that will help a young QB develop. Great blocking & receiving assets, veterans who know what the hell they're doing, etc. But gobbling up cap flexibility to overpay for an oft-injured ILB while we're not even contenders? 

Like with any other veteran, if they overpaid this one player $3m per, it's not good but not tragic either. Problem is it's happening with almost every signing.

• Ijalana is a $2.5-3m backup and we wait until he's a UFA to pay him double.
• After a pretty bad 2016 season, Beachum shouldn't be getting twice the guaranteed money Clady got last year.
• After seeing him start 10 games in 2015, they should have had Winters locked up at $4-5m (under the very real threat of making him a backup his last year here).
• Revis made $19m per for 1 good year and one meh-to-bad year.
• Cro was overpriced by $3m for his 1 yr here.
• Harris was overpriced by $2m per.
• Skrine at $6m was just stupid. 
• Putting Giacomini on PUP instead of cutting him at the end of August, and in doing so guaranteeing his $5m at an absolute minimum rate of $500k/game that ended up being $1m/game.
• Putting the squeeze on Brick a year too late, and even in '16 it was done after the non-Clady options had dried up but before the draft lol.
• Guaranteeing 2 years and $9m to a 31-year old RB with 2000 carries of NFL punishment under his belt, then almost that amount to 28 yr old Powell the very next day, forgoing 2017 comp draft picks for each one. You do one of them, not both.
• Jarvis Jenkins for $3m
• Ryan effing Fitzpatrick at $12m at the effing end of effing July. 

And almost all of this is just over his first 2 years.

Though some are worse than others, it's not any one of them; it's all of them an extra $2-3m each (or all $12m of it in Fitz's case). Then people wonder how we could have started this offseason $8m over the cap despite only having a sh*tty roster that managed 5 wins last year (and even that pathetic total required beating only the winless Browns, the Ravens with Flacco nursing a bum shoulder, a late-season OT win against the 1-win 49ers, and a wk 17 win vs the Bills, who fired their HC a week early just so they could bench their only competent QB against us).

The only truly good deal we've gotten under Macc, that we're all happy with for more than 1 season, is Carpenter. And that one was a lot of luck, since he's been better for us than he was with Seattle, and we kind of ended up with him more than we truly coveted/targeted him. 

Damn!

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Cap room rolls under the new CBA, and those contracts represent money that could've been used for better, younger players now and in the future. That Fitzpatrick contract was complete stupidity. Failing to trade Muhammad Wilkerson and then signing him to a long term deal appears to be another major mis-two-step. Various other unneccesary free agent signings cost them comp picks, for a team looking to build thru the draft. Ryan Clady cost money and a pick for nothing. 

We're what, 50 million under the cap at current, and you're still complaining about Fitz's 2015 season and his 2017 cap hit?

Wake me in 2025, maybe you'll have moved on like the rest of us.  

The team took a shot, it failed, we move on.  Fitz is history and likely done.  Geno (the other option it should be reminded) is now the Giants #3 QB.  

Why not look ahead, at our good looking cap number and on the precipice of the rebuild you seem to support, with two young QB's and maybe more to come?

Looking behind, as Jets fans, only leads to darkness.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We're what, 50 million under the cap at current, and you're still complaining about Fitz's 2015 season and his 2017 cap hit?

Wake me in 2025, maybe you'll have moved on like the rest of us.  

The team took a shot, it failed, we move on.  Fitz is history and likely done.  Geno (the other option it should be reminded) is now the Giants #3 QB.  

Why not look ahead, at our good looking cap number and on the precipice of the rebuild you seem to support, with two young QB's and maybe more to come?

Looking behind, as Jets fans, only leads to darkness.

The Jets have less than half the cap space you're claiming. Another $12M, in place of the crap QB play the team got last year, would be a huge asset. 

[T0mShane]

You can distill the Maccagnan issue down to this one question:

Who is in charge of the New York Jets franchise right now?

[Beerfish]

It's hard to even find a picture of Christopher Johnson.

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets have less than half the cap space you're claiming. Another $12M, in place of the crap QB play the team got last year, would be a huge asset. 

Ah, you're right, we are a few bucks short of 30 million under the cap per http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

And just for the sake of accuracy, Fitz's cap hit this year is $5 million.  Same source.

Yep, we're really hamstrung.  I think that $5 will be a 'UGE problem for 2017.

I'm not sure we'll be able to field a full team.

[PepPep]

Really smart. 

Having said that, let's keep in mind that there are a lot of thing out of his control, including players getting hurt, coaches not doing their part, owner overreach, players choosing other teams in FA, etc, etc.

He can also be really smart but not always right. 

[PepPep]

On 3/16/2017 at 4:39 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm ok with that -- if it's for a player on offense that will help a young QB develop. Great blocking & receiving assets, veterans who know what the hell they're doing, etc. But gobbling up cap flexibility to overpay for an oft-injured ILB while we're not even contenders? 

Like with any other veteran, if they overpaid this one player $3m per, it's not good but not tragic either. Problem is it's happening with almost every signing.

• Ijalana is a $2.5-3m backup and we wait until he's a UFA to pay him double.
• After a pretty bad 2016 season, Beachum shouldn't be getting twice the guaranteed money Clady got last year.
• After seeing him start 10 games in 2015, they should have had Winters locked up at $4-5m (under the very real threat of making him a backup his last year here).
• Revis made $19m per for 1 good year and one meh-to-bad year.
• Cro was overpriced by $3m for his 1 yr here.
• Harris was overpriced by $2m per.
• Skrine at $6m was just stupid. 
• Putting Giacomini on PUP instead of cutting him at the end of August, and in doing so guaranteeing his $5m at an absolute minimum rate of $500k/game that ended up being $1m/game.
• Putting the squeeze on Brick a year too late, and even in '16 it was done after the non-Clady options had dried up but before the draft lol.
• Guaranteeing 2 years and $9m to a 31-year old RB with 2000 carries of NFL punishment under his belt, then almost that amount to 28 yr old Powell the very next day, forgoing 2017 comp draft picks for each one. You do one of them, not both.
• Jarvis Jenkins for $3m
• Ryan effing Fitzpatrick at $12m at the effing end of effing July. 

And almost all of this is just over his first 2 years.

Though some are worse than others, it's not any one of them; it's all of them an extra $2-3m each (or all $12m of it in Fitz's case). Then people wonder how we could have started this offseason $8m over the cap despite only having a sh*tty roster that managed 5 wins last year (and even that pathetic total required beating only the winless Browns, the Ravens with Flacco nursing a bum shoulder, a late-season OT win against the 1-win 49ers, and a wk 17 win vs the Bills, who fired their HC a week early just so they could bench their only competent QB against us).

The only truly good deal we've gotten under Macc, that we're all happy with for more than 1 season, is Carpenter. And that one was a lot of luck, since he's been better for us than he was with Seattle, and we kind of ended up with him more than we truly coveted/targeted him. 

Some of this is true, a lot of this is hindsight. 

Winters was battered by this forum for beinga  bust right around the time you are talking about re-signing him long term. LMFAO. 

Nobody knew Revis would fall off a cliff like he did. One more season of solid play and the Jets could have cut him without much dead money after 2017. 

Skrine was stupid. But he played well in slot. I think putting him on the outside was considerably stupider and thats on Bowles. 

Assuming this wasn't a Woody push, bringing back Fitz made sense at the time. The team was coming off a 10 win season, Fitz was coming off his best season. Say what you want about the schedule, it just made too much sense to bring him back and make another run. No GM ever thinks to himself, hey, this year we have a tougher schedule, I think our QB will flounder this time around.

   

[slats]

39 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ah, you're right, we are a few bucks short of 30 million under the cap per http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

And just for the sake of accuracy, Fitz's cap hit this year is $5 million.  Same source.

Yep, we're really hamstrung.  I think that $5 will be a 'UGE problem for 2017.

I'm not sure we'll be able to field a full team.

Under the current CBA, they could potentially have all $12M to work with this year. And the contracts they had to restructure to fit his $7M last year effect the cap this year. 

It was stupid. There was no benefit to signing him, and that contract was ridiculous. At the end of July, they shouldn't've offered him half that amount. It was take whatever the Jets were offering, or be out of the league at that point. 

[dcJet]

24 minutes ago, slats said:

Under the current CBA, they could potentially have all $12M to work with this year. And the contracts they had to restructure to fit his $7M last year effect the cap this year. 

It was stupid. There was no benefit to signing him, and that contract was ridiculous. At the end of July, they shouldn't've offered him half that amount. It was take whatever the Jets were offering, or be out of the league at that point. 

I don't think you can rollover that 12M to 2017.  The 4 year period is 2013-2016.   Pay Fitz or pay NFLPA, no rollover.

Can someone more proficient in this than me, clarify what the rule is and how it applies to Fitz's contract?  

[Warfish]

53 minutes ago, slats said:

Under the current CBA, they could potentially have all $12M to work with this year.

You'll need to provide a legitimate source for that claim before I take you at your word on it.  

Quote

It was stupid.

In hindsight, knowing the team as a whole failed to do anything right, yes.  Hindsight is cool that way.

At the time, in the moment, lol no.  It was universally viewed as the right move by the experts and the large majority of fans.  Only the tiny Geno-fan crowd saw it differently, and their motivation was quite clear and it had nothing to do with trying to win.  No NFL GM is taking a veteran heavy 10 win team and blowing it up just so they can start Geno Smith to "see what they have".

As I said, you can stare deeply into the abyss of the past if it makes you happy.  Cry mournfully over our lost 5M in cap space in 2017 for a team who just cut everyone and has 30 mill still to spend and is literally in Day 1 of a major rebuild.  But rewriting history to suit your narrative just isn't going to work.  Geno was never getting the starting job just handed back to him after his collssal failures here, and Hack/Petty weren't ready, and we just went 10 wins with Fitz.  Like it or not, your idea (just start Geno, derp!) was never going to happen.  

And if the entire roster hadn't fallen to sh*t, as bad as Fitz was at times, we'd have still been competitive.  Be assured, had the problem "just been Fitz" as you like to believe, we're not in rebuild mode today, we're signing Cutler or trading for Romo and taking another shot at the postseason. We are where we are because the whole shebang failed last year, and the professionals in the room know it.

Quote

There was no benefit to signing him, and that contract was ridiculous. At the end of July, they shouldn't've offered him half that amount. It was take whatever the Jets were offering, or be out of the league at that point. 

Well, it's done, and done.  No sense crying about it now.  Had Geno not been one of the biggest QB busts in recent Jets history, maybe things might have been different.  But he was, and it wasn't different.  But had that happened, he wouldn't be the Giants #3 right now I suppose.

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, j4jets said:

Incorrect. On so many different levels. 

Two years ago, 13 mil guaranteed money was starting CB2 money. 

His salary was not guaranteed for 2016. 

Yeah I guess I also failed to mention how Devin Smith is a bust and how we lucked into Robby Anderson being a decent WR. Doesn't mean he has an eye for WR talent. For the record, it wouldn't matter even if Robby Anderson was the next Jerry Rice, unless Petty can be the next Kurt Warner. 

He inherited $50+ mil of cap space and some high draft picks to fill his roster back up. Lets not act like we were in cap hell to go with that roster. 

I love how you pick and choose certain points to refute, yet fail to acknowledge the correct ones like Cro's contract.

Devin Smith got hurt - something that by definition is bad luck as he wasnt injury prone before, but Robby Anderson is luck...right, I get it.

Right, high draft picks, how is Leonard Williams doing, oh wait, luck again.

You dont like Mac because you think good GMs hit on all their picks - the truth is no GM does, and they miss on 2nd round picks all the time.  You write to fit your idea, with no correct facts.

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Ah, you're right, we are a few bucks short of 30 million under the cap per http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

And just for the sake of accuracy, Fitz's cap hit this year is $5 million.  Same source.

Yep, we're really hamstrung.  I think that $5 will be a 'UGE problem for 2017.

I'm not sure we'll be able to field a full team.

People get hung up on dead money, which is such an easy way to claim ineptitude.  

The contracts Mac have handed out, even overpaying Fitz, have not in any way hurt the teams prospects for signing free agents.  We offered Tony Jefferson the most money and he went elsewhere.  If we wanted to trade 6 for kirk cousins, we could fit him in immediately by making a few small moves.  

Mac signed veterans when he got here, they all had easy outs after this past season which we are now using.  Had they panned out (and not completely tanked their career like revis) they would be here as contributors. 

[bealeb319]

We should probably fly banners over training camp to get him fired so that a new coach and gm can get rid of half the talent on our roster, start their rebuild and give our young guys a whole set of new playbooks to learn just like we do over and over again I am sure it will work out better the next time.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[NoBowles]

3 hours ago, slats said:

I don't hate Maccagnan. I think Sperm and dbates and co. have legitimate gripes, though. 

Everyone agrees that you need a QB, but not having one doesn't excuse making other dumb moves. The Fitz deal set the whole team back. Not just that he was terrible, but the impression that Mac let a couple players and the media and some misguided fans force his hand that terrible deal. I think that contract, for that player, is part of what led to Bowles losing the locker room. And also why Mangold and Marshall are gone, and I don't suspect Decker is too far behind them. 

I'm still yet to see one piece of evidence that the Fitz deal set back the team at all. Literally the only way that is true is if You believed Geno is a starting QB. Otherwise we are in the exact same position today, with $12m more, and still sucking and not spending it. What was dumb was not cutting Geno the second they signed Fitzpatrick, and not wasting a roster spot on that useless sack of poo.

Sperm and batesman are still butt hurt over the backlash that their boy Idzik got. Ironically they said zilch about Idzik passing on 3 franchise QBs, but post pages and pages of complaining about things that are not 1/1000 as damanging.

[dbatesman]

11 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Sperm and batesman are still butt hurt over the backlash that their boy Idzik got. Ironically they said zilch about Idzik passing on 3 franchise QBs, but post pages and pages of complaining about things that are not 1/1000 as damanging.

 

On 9/24/2014 at 9:06 PM, dbatesman said:

I know the focus is on Saunders and McDougle (and I like Geno more than most), but I honestly believe that passing on Bridgewater is the decision that's going to get Idzik fired.

 

On 11/25/2015 at 11:08 AM, dbatesman said:

I think Idzik's biggest mistake was not going after Bridgewater or Carr in 2014, even though Geno had done absolutely nothing to make anyone think he was the guy long-term; I think this would be a similar mistake. The track record for QBs taken where Petty was taken is abysmal, so regardless of how they feel about Petty, if they get a shot at another guy, I think they absolutely have to take it.

 

On 11/25/2015 at 3:06 PM, dbatesman said:

Pretty much. The primary benefit of taking Petty in the 4th (or Geno in the 2nd, for that matter) is that it doesn't preclude you from taking another QB the next season, which is precisely why passing on Bridgewater/Carr was such a disaster.

 

On 4/30/2016 at 10:28 AM, dbatesman said:

Point of clarification: he was dead to me the second he passed on Bridgewater, but I did (and still do) think his plan was a good one, and he rid us of Rex, so I'll always have a little soft spot for him.

 

On 5/2/2016 at 10:22 AM, dbatesman said:

Indirectly he did. He took Geno and then passed on Bridgewater and Carr the next year, even though Geno had shown nothing whatsoever to indicate he was a franchise player. If Hackenberg really is Maccagnan's "guy," like all of you keep saying, it's pretty easy to see history repeating itself, especially considering Hackenberg likely won't get the chance to sh*t his pants this year and force the issue the way Geno did in 2013.

 

On 5/2/2016 at 0:05 PM, dbatesman said:

It's because of Geno insofar as he didn't take another QB. If he'd drafted Bridgewater or Carr in 2014, he'd still be here.

 

On 3/9/2017 at 4:56 PM, dbatesman said:

It has nothing to do with development. He said the team would be "quarterback obsessed," watched Geno bumble through a disaster of a rookie season, then sat on his hands while Teddy Bridgewater and Derek Carr were scooped up by teams that know their ass from a hole in the ground. 

 

[NoBowles]

13 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Man, you reposted something saying you like Geno? I'm impressed, that is some humble pie right there.

[slats]

1 hour ago, dcJet said:

I don't think you can rollover that 12M to 2017.  The 4 year period is 2013-2016.   Pay Fitz or pay NFLPA, no rollover.

Can someone more proficient in this than me, clarify what the rule is and how it applies to Fitz's contract?  

You are incorrect. The new CBA was ratified in 2011. The first four year period ran from 2011-2015, this one runs from 2016-2020 (when the current CBA expires). All of Fitz' stupid ass contract could've rolled over into this year. 

@Warfish

[slats]

36 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I'm still yet to see one piece of evidence that the Fitz deal set back the team at all. Literally the only way that is true is if You believed Geno is a starting QB. Otherwise we are in the exact same position today, with $12m more, and still sucking and not spending it. What was dumb was not cutting Geno the second they signed Fitzpatrick, and not wasting a roster spot on that useless sack of poo.

Sperm and batesman are still butt hurt over the backlash that their boy Idzik got. Ironically they said zilch about Idzik passing on 3 franchise QBs, but post pages and pages of complaining about things that are not 1/1000 as damanging.

Literally being in the same position today with $12M more to spend is a $12M better position to be in. 

Was Geno a starting QB? It doesn't matter, as Fitzpatrick wasn't a starting QB. That's a nonsense argument. The team paid Fitz starter money to be the worst QB in the league. It was stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. 

[NoBowles]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

Literally being in the same position today with $12M more to spend is a $12M better position to be in. 

Was Geno a starting QB? It doesn't matter, as Fitzpatrick wasn't a starting QB. That's a nonsense argument. The team paid Fitz starter money to be the worst QB in the league. It was stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. 

This team is going 2-14. That 12 mil maybe gets them to 5-11 if your being generous. It does nothing at all, it lessens your chance of getting Darnold. So if we get Darnold, we should thank Fitz for it.

 

[slats]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

You'll need to provide a legitimate source for that claim before I take you at your word on it.  

In hindsight, knowing the team as a whole failed to do anything right, yes.  Hindsight is cool that way.

At the time, in the moment, lol no.  It was universally viewed as the right move by the experts and the large majority of fans.  Only the tiny Geno-fan crowd saw it differently, and their motivation was quite clear and it had nothing to do with trying to win.  No NFL GM is taking a veteran heavy 10 win team and blowing it up just so they can start Geno Smith to "see what they have".

As I said, you can stare deeply into the abyss of the past if it makes you happy.  Cry mournfully over our lost 5M in cap space in 2017 for a team who just cut everyone and has 30 mill still to spend and is literally in Day 1 of a major rebuild.  But rewriting history to suit your narrative just isn't going to work.  Geno was never getting the starting job just handed back to him after his collssal failures here, and Hack/Petty weren't ready, and we just went 10 wins with Fitz.  Like it or not, your idea (just start Geno, derp!) was never going to happen.  

And if the entire roster hadn't fallen to sh*t, as bad as Fitz was at times, we'd have still been competitive.  Be assured, had the problem "just been Fitz" as you like to believe, we're not in rebuild mode today, we're signing Cutler or trading for Romo and taking another shot at the postseason. We are where we are because the whole shebang failed last year, and the professionals in the room know it.

Well, it's done, and done.  No sense crying about it now.  Had Geno not been one of the biggest QB busts in recent Jets history, maybe things might have been different.  But he was, and it wasn't different.  But had that happened, he wouldn't be the Giants #3 right now I suppose.

I'm gonna need a link for the bold. Who are the experts? Manish Mehta? 

As for the fans, this board was largely split with many anti-Fitz people (me included) who didn't give a rat's ass about Geno Smith. Simply put, Geno + $12M blows away Ryan Fitznoodle. It's not because Geno is good (he's not), it's because Fitz is bad but an extra $12M to spend in free agency is good. Fitz was still a free agent at the end of July, when veterans generally get league minimum deals. Paying him $12M when no other team had any interest in him at all was the absolute height of stupidity. 

And Geno hasn't been signed by the jints yet. Once (if) he is, he'll battle Johnson for the backup job. Hate him all you want, he's probably on the inside track to be the team's #2. He has starting experience, and a legitimate skill set that he's yet to maximize. Will he? Who knows? I honestly don't care. But calling him their number three is disingenuous.  

[slats]

9 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

This team is going 2-14. That 12 mil maybe gets them to 5-11 if your being generous. It does nothing at all, it lessens your chance of getting Darnold. So if we get Darnold, we should thank Fitz for it.

 

They could've carried that $12M, or a good portion thereof, into next season. That would've been my recommendation. 

If Geno sucked as badly as you think he would've, the Jets could've been looking at Myles Garrett rushing the passer for the next decade. And if he didn't, well, who knows? Either way, an extra $12M can only be viewed as a plus. 

[NoBowles]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

They could've carried that $12M, or a good portion thereof, into next season. That would've been my recommendation. 

If Geno sucked as badly as you think he would've, the Jets could've been looking at Myles Garrett rushing the passer for the next decade. And if he didn't, well, who knows? Either way, an extra $12M can only be viewed as a plus. 

I'll Take Darnold next year over Garrett this year.  Thanks Fitz!!

[slats]

3 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I'll Take Darnold next year over Garrett this year.  Thanks Fitz!!

I'd prefer both, along with $12M to spend in FA. 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

I love how you pick and choose certain points to refute, yet fail to acknowledge the correct ones like Cro's contract.

Bad contract to Cro. Why do a 4 year deal when you pretty much you're getting rid of him in 1 year? Macc us no clue how comp pics work. Neither do you it seems. 

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Devin Smith got hurt - something that by definition is bad luck as he wasnt injury prone before, but Robby Anderson is luck...right, I get it.

Devin Smith was active an fairly healthy enough to play the last several games. Didn't do anything at all. Couldn't beat out late round rookies either for snaps. 

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Right, high draft picks, how is Leonard Williams doing, oh wait, luck again.

Umm, yeah, when you get to draft the concensus best player of the draft at #6, it's luck, is it not? Thanks to Washington. 

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

You dont like Mac because you think good GMs hit on all their picks - the truth is no GM does, and they miss on 2nd round picks all the time.  You write to fit your idea, with no correct facts.

Incorrect again. List is pretty long. Sperm nailed it. 

Heres a fact: we are worse off now than we were two years ago. Staring at the 1st overall pick next year unless a bunch of players magically turn it around. 

[NoBowles]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

I'd prefer both, along with $12M to spend in FA. 

Now your talking! Me too! But whats done is done, Lets go get Darnold now!

[flgreen]

41 minutes ago, slats said:

Literally being in the same position today with $12M more to spend is a $12M better position to be in. 

Was Geno a starting QB? It doesn't matter, as Fitzpatrick wasn't a starting QB. That's a nonsense argument. The team paid Fitz starter money to be the worst QB in the league. It was stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. 

The reason Macc got FO guy of the year in 2015 is because he got Marshall, and Fitz cheap, they connected and way outplayed their contracts.  The FO/CS thought they had a decent shot at the playoffs.  You just don't let a QB walk away who set franchise passing records. The only other reasonable option was Smith.  I have a feeling Bowles just didn't like Smith, and didn't want him as the starting QB.  The whole QB situation was handled horribly by the FO/CS.  

For whatever reason, not only did Fitz suck last year, the team as a whole sucked.  That's why the re-build is on.

Bottom line was, you just couldn't hand a 10-6 team over to Smith 

[slats]

1 minute ago, flgreen said:

The reason Macc got FO guy of the year in 2015 is because he got Marshall, and Fitz cheap, they connected and way outplayed their contracts.  The FO/CS thought they had a decent shot at the playoffs.  You just don't let a QB walk away who set franchise passing records. The only other reasonable option was Smith.  I have a feeling Bowles just didn't like Smith, and didn't want him as the starting QB.  The whole QB situation was handled horribly by the FO/CS.  

For whatever reason, not only did Fitz suck last year, the team as a whole sucked.  That's why the re-build is on.

Bottom line was, you just couldn't hand a 10-6 team over to Smith 

That 2015 team was a mirage, and smart football people should've been able to see that. Fitz set one pathetic team record, not records. Smith was penciled in to start before IK broke his jaw, so I don't believe Bowles had a bias against him (although I do suspect that Bowles is a veteran QB guy). 

It was late July. You don't pay a veteran free agent $12M in late July. You call his bluff. Fitz' choices at that time were to accept whatever the Jets were offering, or hoping that some QB got hurt somewhere. Or retiring. It was a stupid contract that the team is still paying for. 

[flgreen]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

That 2015 team was a mirage, and smart football people should've been able to see that. Fitz set one pathetic team record, not records. Smith was penciled in to start before IK broke his jaw, so I don't believe Bowles had a bias against him (although I do suspect that Bowles is a veteran QB guy). 

It was late July. You don't pay a veteran free agent $12M in late July. You call his bluff. Fitz' choices at that time were to accept whatever the Jets were offering, or hoping that some QB got hurt somewhere. Or retiring. It was a stupid contract that the team is still paying for. 

Well I assume you feel that both Macc, and Bowles should have been fired because their not "smart football people".     Nor are 70% of the posters on the board.  Only the Geno people are smart football people.

Truth is, most people understood that Fitz was far from a franchise QB, it was just that the alternative was so horrific.  Obviously the   FO/CS felt the same way.  Season just went sideways real fast.  From every aspect  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I'm gonna need a link for the bold. Who are the experts? Manish Mehta? 

1 hour ago, slats said:

As for the fans, this board was largely split with many anti-Fitz people (me included) who didn't give a rat's ass about Geno Smith. Simply put, Geno + $12M blows away Ryan Fitznoodle.

Only a tiny portion of the overall fanbase thought that way, and it's been hilarious watching guys like you pat themselves on the back for being "right" when you're nothing of the kind.  

1 hour ago, slats said:

It's not because Geno is good (he's not), it's because Fitz is bad but an extra $12M to spend in free agency is good.

GIve it a rest, we're 30 million under, the cap (as I said back then) it a complete and total non-issue.  Your whining about 5M in 17 is laughable.

1 hour ago, slats said:

And Geno hasn't been signed by the jints yet. Once (if) he is, he'll battle Johnson for the backup job. Hate him all you want, he's probably on the inside track to be the team's #2.

Hey, maybe you should use that to pat yourself on the back some more, more proof you were "right", eh?  

And it's so sad you want to make everything personal, and use words like hate.  If anyone here hates a guy, it Geno fans and their hatred of Fitz.  I don't hate Geno, I don't know Geno the person beyo0nd his childish and sh*tty attitude displayed on the job. Geno simply isn't a good NFL QB thus far, and it's pretty damn obvious the guys who saw him every single day think the same.  As do the Giants, who brought him in as a backup at best.  

1 hour ago, slats said:

He has starting experience, and a legitimate skill set that he's yet to maximize. Will he? Who knows? I honestly don't care. But calling him their number three is disingenuous. 

Yeah, it's obvious how little you care from all your Pro-Geno postings.  Really, so very obvious.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, PepPep said:

Some of this is true, a lot of this is hindsight. 

Winters was battered by this forum for beinga  bust right around the time you are talking about re-signing him long term. LMFAO. 

Nobody knew Revis would fall off a cliff like he did. One more season of solid play and the Jets could have cut him without much dead money after 2017. 

Skrine was stupid. But he played well in slot. I think putting him on the outside was considerably stupider and thats on Bowles. 

Assuming this wasn't a Woody push, bringing back Fitz made sense at the time. The team was coming off a 10 win season, Fitz was coming off his best season. Say what you want about the schedule, it just made too much sense to bring him back and make another run. No GM ever thinks to himself, hey, this year we have a tougher schedule, I think our QB will flounder this time around.

   

Nope. Wrong. His "bust" years were 2013-2014. In 2015 he started 10 games, and that's when he did a 180 from his prior production. He wasn't much different in 2016 than 2015. Certainly not the difference between "do not want" and "do want at $7.5m/year."

Guaranteeing Revis into his 3rd year was stupid. That he fell of more dramatically than expected is irrelevant; they're supposed to know better than to give the biggest CB contract ever, with significant guarantees into the 3rd year of the contract, to a player already on the wrong side of 30 at the time of signing.

Skrine played just ok in the slot. He'd have a pretty good game and then an awful game. That doesn't translate to "pretty good" on balance. Putting him on the outside is because he was the best player Maccagnan provided.

There is no evidence whatsoever of any "Woody push" for Fitzpatrick. Maccagnan has said Woody put zero pressure on him and did zero meddling as far as whether or not to bring back Fitz. 

[slats]

19 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Well I assume you feel that both Macc, and Bowles should have been fired because their not "smart football people".     Nor are 70% of the posters on the board.  Only the Geno people are smart football people.

Truth is, most people understood that Fitz was far from a franchise QB, it was just that the alternative was so horrific.  Obviously the   FO/CS felt the same way.  Season just went sideways real fast.  From every aspect  

I think they should be called into account. They signed Fitz for a stupid amount of money, and then benched him for the horrific option that was Geno Smith. Obviously, they screwed that up. 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Only a tiny portion of the overall fanbase thought that way, and it's been hilarious watching guys like you pat themselves on the back for being "right" when you're nothing of the kind.  

GIve it a rest, we're 30 million under, the cap (as I said back then) it a complete and total non-issue.  Your whining about 5M in 17 is laughable.

Hey, maybe you should use that to pat yourself on the back some more, more proof you were "right", eh?  

And it's so sad you want to make everything personal, and use words like hate.  If anyone here hates a guy, it Geno fans and their hatred of Fitz.  I don't hate Geno, I don't know Geno the person beyo0nd his childish and sh*tty attitude displayed on the job. Geno simply isn't a good NFL QB thus far, and it's pretty damn obvious the guys who saw him every single day think the same.  As do the Giants, who brought him in as a backup at best.  

Yeah, it's obvious how little you care from all your Pro-Geno postings.  Really, so very obvious.

Fitz was terrible, and was benched for Geno Smith during the season. I'd've much rather started Geno, and benched hm for Bryce Petty, and saved $12M. The fact that Fitz sucked enough to be benched for Geno Smith is evidence enough that I was 100% correct that Fitz never should've been resigned. I have long arms, I'll pat myself on the back as much as I see fit. It feels nice. 

And it wasn't a "tiny proportion" of the fanbase who recognized that 2015 and its QB were a mirage. It was many, many people. Unfortunately, you and Manish wanted Fitz back and got your way. 

And the Jets are $24M under the cap. I'd rather be $36M under. 

And I really don't care about Geno Smith, or where he goes, or what he does. I've been clear on that consistently. You have a need to put words into other people's posts to suit your own needs. I don't like Geno, and I'm glad he's gone, but I'd've happily had him start last season to save the team from that horrific performance from Fitz and $12M. And more reps for the kids, and switching to Petty sooner, etc. Fitz had no place in the future of this team, despite a few irrational Rich Gannon dreams. 

[jack48]

15 hours ago, DMan77 said:

He's competent. Not terrible, not great. So far he's been average in my eyes... He's learning too, remember. I think he's done well this off season compared to last. 

When I look at the present state of this team after two years, the word "competent" does not enter the conversation.  The juary may be out, I will grant.  But "competent?"

[jack48]

15 hours ago, slats said:

Cap room rolls under the new CBA, and those contracts represent money that could've been used for better, younger players now and in the future. That Fitzpatrick contract was complete stupidity. Failing to trade Muhammad Wilkerson and then signing him to a long term deal appears to be another major mis-two-step. Various other unneccesary free agent signings cost them comp picks, for a team looking to build thru the draft. Ryan Clady cost money and a pick for nothing. 

Yup.  Mo looked pretty nifty int he pictures I saw of him at the Temple Pro Day