To QB or not QB

[greenwave81]

1 minute ago, jetrider said:

No. You take a 1st rounder because he's the real deal - a solution - not because you need one/anyone.

We need a legit superstar not a shed full of backups.

Well, you wouldn't draft a QB at 6 that you thought only had 'backup' potential. Of course that would be stupid.

What if the only 'legit' superstar at 6 is another DT?

And half this board would protest if say he takes OJ Howard at 6 because 'you can get a TE later'...same with S and RT for example.

I'm not pining for any QB in this draft, but I would UNDERSTAND if Macc drafted one, even at 6 as there is a reason QB's go higher than expected in the draft..because they're so important.  Macc may have the pick of ALL the QB's in this draft, and if any one of them pan out that he passed on he's gonna get killed by the fanbase anyway lol.

[jetrider]

15 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Well, you wouldn't draft a QB at 6 that you thought only had 'backup' potential. Of course that would be stupid.

What if the only 'legit' superstar at 6 is another DT?

And half this board would protest if say he takes OJ Howard at 6 because 'you can get a TE later'...same with S and RT for example.

I'm not pining for any QB in this draft, but I would UNDERSTAND if Macc drafted one, even at 6 as there is a reason QB's go higher than expected in the draft..because they're so important.  Macc may have the pick of ALL the QB's in this draft, and if any one of them pan out that he passed on he's gonna get killed by the fanbase anyway lol.

They didn't think Sanchez had only backup potential but he can't hold a job as a backup either.

[greenwave81]

1 minute ago, jetrider said:

They didn't think Sanchez had only backup potential but he can't hold a job as a backup either.

Vernon Gholston says 'hi!'

No one gets drafted at 6 that doesn't have the attributes at least to be a starter.  Some work, some don't.

If Macc has the pick of the litter so to speak, and he doesn't have to trade multiple 1sts or other draft assets in another draft a QB high in another season AND he deems someone as 'starter potential', just saying I would understand the pick of a QB at 6.

[adb280z]

12 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I like a third option:

Do not pick QB at #6 this year and hope Hackenberg develops.

Unbelievable how a QB who turns 22 this year and is taken in the 2nd round is already written off as an option.

 

Maybe he shouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd or at all.

[greenwave81]

2 minutes ago, adb280z said:

Maybe he shouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd or at all.

But he was, and no one knows what will transpire at this point.

I swear, Hackenberg must have kicked a bunch of NYJ fans dogs or something.

The only 2nd rd pick by the NYJ that I can recall amounting to a hill of beans has been David Harris.  It's not like a second round pick busting isn't common around here...and at least it was a chance (actually still is) at a QB.

[adb280z]

3 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

As long as they don't waste another top 10 pick. ?

Fixed your post.  

If the corner turns into Revis - Great pick, Milliner - bust

Dlineman turns into Wilkerson or Williams - Great pick, Gholston or Coples - bust

Ultimately that's what matters, not necessarily the position.

[goober36]

With the crop of qbs next year and assuming we will have a top 7 pick at the very least, the wiser decision would be to hold tight and focus on other needs. That's how you properly rebuild.

Patience is key my friend.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Mike135]

Give Hack and Petty a chance.  If they fail, then go back to drafting a QB (hopefully #1 overall) in 2018.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/26/how-often-do-teams-draft-qbs-less-than-jets/

How often do teams draft QBs? Less than Jets

Posted by Michael Gehlken on March 26, 2017, 9:32 PM EDT

Getty Images

It took some researching, but one positive can be drawn now as it relates to the Jets and their meager quarterback situation.

They’ve been trying.

By one measure, like no team has.

Pro Football Talk collected data over the past decade to analyze how each NFL franchise has approached the quarterback position in the draft. The Jets selected an NFL-high seven over that span, including one in each of the past four drafts. Two of those four, Geno Smith a New York Giant and Tajh Boyd out of the league, are no longer with the club.

It is, of course, tongue-in-cheek to characterize this activity as “positive”; inserting rookies into a huddle and seeing who sticks isn’t an ideal spring rite of passage. Jets GM Mike Maccagnan recently allowed the team may take another dive into the 2017 quarterback class. Josh McCown currently sits atop his depth chart.

Mark Sanchez in 2009 is the Jets’ lone first-round quarterback in the past decade.

The Broncos drafted the second-most quarterbacks with six. Two were first-rounders: Paxton Lynch in 2016 and Tim Tebow in 2010.

The Browns are one of six teams to have selected five since 2007. No organization, however, has invested more in rookie quarterbacks during this period. Each of Cleveland’s five QBs was taken during the draft’s first three rounds. Johnny Manziel, Brandon Weeden and Brady Quinn were all first-round picks.

New England seems to have a preference for when it goes quarterback.

Of the five Bill Belichick drafted in this 10-year span, four were taken in the second or third round.

No team recently has invested less in a rookie quarterback than the Chargers. Despite scouting the position heavily, they are one of five teams to have selected an NFL-few two quarterbacks the past 10 years. Brad Sorensen in 2013 and Jonathan Crompton in 2010 were seventh- and fifth-round picks, respectively. Neither remains on the roster.

Like the Chargers, the Steelers and Giants acquired a franchise quarterback during the 2004 draft. And like the Chargers, they’ve yet to make a sizable draft investment in his successor. The Steelers’ only quarterbacks taken in a decade are 2013 fourth-rounder Landry Jones and 2008 fifth-rounder Dennis Dixon. All three of the Giants’ quarterback picks came between rounds four and six.

The Texans and Bears, despite a current need, have drafted just three quarterbacks in 10 years. Tom Savage in 2014 is Houston’s only such pick the past five drafts. All three of the Bears’ selections came in the fifth and sixth rounds. San Francisco hasn’t drafted a quarterback before the sixth round in five straight years.

A franchise that drafts several quarterbacks but hits on none is not rewarded for its effort.

The Jets can attest to this.

They’ve invested in a rookie quarterback year after year, hoping at some point someone will come along to fill their vacancy for good. But when that doesn’t transpire, a year passes, and the franchise finds itself in the same situation as it did a year before.

So here they are, beside other teams, sifting through a market for what can seem a mythical good.

The search continues.

[thadude]

2 hours ago, jetrider said:

Bowles is even worse at developing one.

If I'm committing 1st Round money to a 1st Round player, I want the surest player at a position of need.

Taking a QB for the sake of taking a QB is poor strategy, especially knowing he'll be in the hands of a terrible HC and an unproven OC.  

 

 

You really  how to talk yourself out of improving at qb

[thadude]

2 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

Who'd he pass on other than Dak (as did 31 other NFL GM's for multiple rounds) that you would have rathered have?

Mariota and Winston went 1-2 in 15, no one else has amounted to anything to my recollection...Goff and Wentz went 1-2 in 16, costing their teams a lot of DP's int he process.

You can only draft who's available in front of you, no?

 

--Passed on Glennon.

--Gave Fitz $13 mil when he was bidding against himself

--Gave McClown $6 mil plus incentives when he was about to either retire or play in Canada

--Drafted Bryce Putrid

--Drafted Christina Wackyturd

[thadude]

1 hour ago, goober36 said:

With the crop of qbs next year and assuming we will have a top 7 pick at the very least, the wiser decision would be to hold tight and focus on other needs. That's how you properly rebuild.

Patience is key my friend.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Only been 50 years since the last Super Bowl

[goober36]

Only been 50 years since the last Super Bowl

Very true, but with all do respect we have always tried rushing the process by picking up over payed washed up vets.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

Vernon Gholston says 'hi!'

No one gets drafted at 6 that doesn't have the attributes at least to be a starter.  Some work, some don't.

If Macc has the pick of the litter so to speak, and he doesn't have to trade multiple 1sts or other draft assets in another draft a QB high in another season AND he deems someone as 'starter potential', just saying I would understand the pick of a QB at 6.

that's right.  if mac goes bpa and the qb is the bpa at 6 then he'll probably take him.  it'll be the same way in other rounds too. imo they ought to pass on a qb with the 6 pick and then grab someone like peterman in round 4 or later. they shouldn't grab a total reclamation project like taj boyd or a guy they would turn into a receiver. we'll see. about 3 years from now we'll be able to see how this draft hase played out.

[HessStation]

9 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

Who'd he pass on other than Dak (as did 31 other NFL GM's for multiple rounds) that you would have rathered have?

Mariota and Winston went 1-2 in 15, no one else has amounted to anything to my recollection...Goff and Wentz went 1-2 in 16, costing their teams a lot of DP's int he process.

You can only draft who's available in front of you, no?

 

Plus they at least tried moving up for Mariota.

[jetspenguin]

8 hours ago, thadude said:

--Passed on Glennon.- This was BRILLIANCE. 15 mil per for an unproven QB? Brock says Hi  

--Gave Fitz $13 mil when he was bidding against himself- You make a good point here

--Gave McClown $6 mil plus incentives when he was about to either retire or play in Canada- I think you are wrong but we dont know

--Drafted Bryce Putrid- Pure speculation, you have no clue

--Drafted Christina Wackyturd- You haven even less of a clue about this

Only 1 of your points is factual, the rest are just well....nonsense.

[Tinstar]

10 hours ago, adb280z said:

If Hack is the starter and the Jets are still picking #1 it's because he sucked and isn't the QB of the future.

So am I to take from this that you think a good QB could take this team that everyone thinks stinks and lead it to a solid season ?

[jetrider]

8 hours ago, thadude said:

You really  how to talk yourself out of improving at qb

You really don't know the diff between improving at QB and wasting time and money on blindfolded impulse buying.

[Warfish]

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

No I don't expect anything. What I'm saying is, I would rather watch Hackenberg and Petty play this year.

As would I, especially Hack.  I do not believe drafting a QB in 2017 means not playing Hack in 2017.  

Quite the contrary, any QB we draft in 2017 likely needs to sit a year, as Hack did.

Development in Depth.  

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

I would rather them not draft a QB with the 6th pick overall this year, because almost every expert is saying none are worth the risk that high, any of the three top prospects would be considered not ready or with no higher ceiling than young QBs we already have.

I was with you (at least can understand your view).....right up to that last line.  

All due respect, no one anywhere thinks Hack and Watson/Trubisky are equal prospects with equal long term potential.

And comparing Petty, as a prospect, to either the top two guys is no contest, Petty isn't int he ballpark as a prospect.

But once again, I would stress that drafting a QB does not require playing that QB now, instantly.  Petty and Hack can both get their "fair chance", but if they falter, we at the least have another prospect in the pipeline ready to go.  

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

, Because it would cloud up an already 3 man QB roster and take reps away from the two young QBs on the team

Only if mismanaged.  And all due respect, lets not act like protecting Petty reps is so valuble we should punt on materially superior prospects to ensure he gets those reps.

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

, Because if they took a QB at 6 this year it would all but kill or severly lessen the likelihood of them taking a QB next year.

I simply do not agree.  The Redskins took RG III and Cousins in the same draft!  And it worked out great for them.  As an example.  

Again, we must overcome old, outdated, logic when it comes to the draft.  1st round QB's are not 100 million investments anymore.  You can draft them as often as needed, and your cap can handle it.  

We need to start looking at QB's like starting pitchers

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

..because it would be embarrassing to take a QB in the second then early first then early first round three years in row.

Your embarrassment (and my own) is irrelevant tbqh.

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

..the team would look as incompetent as they are

Think about that for a minute.  

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

and the media and fanbase would lose its mind and would be unfair to the two no three players on the roster, all young and needing reps and direction.

Life isn;t fair.  If the two kids cannot rise to the challenge, they were never going to rise to any challenge.

And the sh*tty NY media will lose it's mind no matter what happens, be assured.

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

I would wait to take a QB in 2018, Because by then they'll have a better idea what they have in either Hackenberg or Petty, Because the 2018 class is supposed to be much better than this year,

And when the Jets finish 6-10 in 2017, and pick 8th, and all the "great" QB's are already gone by #8?   What then?  

13 hours ago, HessStation said:

Because the Jets are almost definitely going to suck in 2018. Because that's your best chance of every winning anything...ALTHOUGH NO sh*t NOTHING IS A SURE THING.

Also, taking a QB in the mid late rounds this year makes ZERO sense and is a horrible idea imo. 

Until we address the QB position, legitimately, we will continue to suck.  Waiting will not solve the problem.  Limiting prospects to only old midrounders like Petty and overdrafted near-sure-busts like Hack.....not the solution.

Just wait, when McCown wins the job, I do very much hope you lose your sh*t over that, for all the reasons you stated above, taking reps away, not knowing what we have, etc.  because be assured, Hack isn't beatout out McCown for the #1 job, and Bowles will play who helps him not get fired, not whats best for the long term of the franchise.

[Warfish]

13 hours ago, Paradis said:

Again, learning disability. 

Give it a rest mate. If you have to toss in things like this, it says alot about your character, and the inherent weakness of your argument.

Lets talk football, and maybe avoid making implications about my wife or my IQ.  Or is that too hard for you, to stay on topic?

 

[JustInFudge]

Holy sh*t...this fan base is actually voting to punt on a QB and wait for next year completely hoping the cards fall right and a millions different factors break in the Jets favor for a player that might not even be leaving school?

lmfao 

[JustInFudge]

On 3/26/2017 at 9:33 AM, dbatesman said:

We have no answer at the most important position in sports, but if we get a shot at one this year we should turn it down and wait for Darnold, because that's a workable plan that definitely doesn't depend on a million things breaking exactly right. Also Petty and Hackenberg, come on folks, one of them is bound to work out. A nurse comes to my house and velcros my shoes for me every morning

I didnt read any posts just saw the votes, then went back to see how this could be and saw this ninja. 

This is amazing.  Lets pass and hope.  Great strategy. 

[JustInFudge]

23 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I like a third option:

Do not pick QB at #6 this year and hope Hackenberg develops.

Unbelievable how a QB who turns 22 this year and is taken in the 2nd round is already written off as an option.

 

Is it unbelievable?  The kid didnt even dress last year.  I think that's pretty unbelievable. 

Hope is not a strategy. 

[adb280z]

So am I to take from this that you think a good QB could take this team that everyone thinks stinks and lead it to a solid season ?

No, they wouldn't have a solid season, but they also wouldn't have the worst record in the league.

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Holy sh*t...this fan base is actually voting to punt on a QB and wait for next year completely hoping the cards fall right and a millions different factors break in the Jets favor for a player that might not even be leaving school?

lmfao 

Help me out Jif< because I respect your smarts.

Why does drafting a QB (anywhere, be it #6 or in the 5th) mean we're punting on Hack?

First, hack through one year is a major dissapointment, unable to even take a single snap in garbage time.  That doesn't bode well for him.

Second, hack was overdrafted, he was not a 2nd Round Prospect.  He was a reach.

Third, even if we draft a QB, can we not start Hack (if he earns it) and #2 the drafted QB for a year?

Fourth, if Hack cannot beat out a rookie QB.....doesn't that pretty much say Hack isn't the prospect we hope he is, and punting is warranted?

At what point did Hack become so valuable and beloved that we cannot give him legitimate competition?

[MDL_JET]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Is it unbelievable?  The kid didnt even dress last year.  I think that's pretty unbelievable. 

Hope is not a strategy. 

It's pretty unbelievable the Jets actually stuck to their plans despite stupid fans shouting for him to start one or two pointless games. Fans know nothing about Hack right now, I have no idea why everyone is writing him off. 

Aren't Trubisky and Watson considered projects themselves? Maybe not as much as Hack but I've never read anywhere where they can be thrown in and lead a team, even if it's a contender. It would be best to sit them as well if we did end up drafting one of the 2. Then we're gonna hear "Trubisky can't even beat out Petty....Mac's clueless!"

[JustInFudge]

22 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

If you're a QB needy team, and you have the chance to take the top QB in a given draft, I don't see how you turn that down.

I know I sound like a broken record but all the talk about "next year's" crop of qbs is so nauseating. We are so influenced by what we read on these kids, not what we see.

Most fans on this board have never even seen Darnold or Rosen play a full game. the fact of the matter is that they haven't been fully evaluated by the talking heads yet. Just wait til next year and all the warts start coming out on these guys. Then the same fans will be saying "wait til 2019 for Jacob Eason!"  

I reiterate...we may have our top pick of any QB in this draft. How many years can we say that? Strike now. Scout the heck out of these guys, because I will guarantee at least 2 QBs from this draft become franchise guys. Can Macc identify that guy??? He at least has to take the shot.

This 100%.  It happens every year.  People forget but 3 years ago, Christian Hackenberg was Sam Darnold.

2 year ago after the Bama game, everyone was like, suck for Watson.  Was does Watson do the next season?  Everything he was asked to do and more by once again shredding Bama but this time winning the whole damn thing.  Then a couple dipsh*ts that dont know their ass from their elbow started screaming, MPH, Spread offense, no snaps under center and blah blah blabitty blah and here we are thinking about actually passing on this dude because next year's shinny object is shinier all of a sudden?

It's moronic.  Legit. 

 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

This 100%.  It happens every year.  People forget but 3 years ago, Christian Hackenberg was Sam Darnold.

2 year ago after the Bama game, everyone was like, suck for Watson.  Was does Watson do the next season?  Everything he was asked to do and more by once again shredding Bama but this time winning the whole damn thing.  Then a couple dipsh*ts that dont know their ass from their elbow started screaming, MPH, Spread offense, no snaps under center and blah blah blabitty blah and here we are thinking about actually passing on this dude because next year's shinny object is shinier all of a sudden?

It's moronic.  Legit. 

 

The spread is a legit concern. Boyd put up similar numbers in that offense. A lot of short throws etc. And I like Watson too...

[MDL_JET]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Help me out Jif< because I respect your smarts.

Why does drafting a QB (anywhere, be it #6 or in the 5th) mean we're punting on Hack?

First, hack through one year is a major dissapointment, unable to even take a single snap in garbage time.  That doesn't bode well for him.

Second, hack was overdrafted, he was not a 2nd Round Prospect.  He was a reach.

Third, even if we draft a QB, can we not start Hack (if he earns it) and #2 the drafted QB for a year?

Fourth, if Hack cannot beat out a rookie QB.....doesn't that pretty much say Hack isn't the prospect we hope he is, and punting is warranted?

At what point did Hack become so valuable and beloved that we cannot give him legitimate competition?

Didn't everyone say Hack needs to sit a year? He needs to learn and work on fixing some things? So how can him doing exactly that...be a disappointment? 

[JetsFanatic]

13 minutes ago, JiF said:

Is it unbelievable?  The kid didnt even dress last year.  I think that's pretty unbelievable. 

Hope is not a strategy. 

Just because he was not ready to play last year doesn't mean he is not going to be a good QB. He was only 21. I'm not guaranteeing anything but I still have hopes for him.

[dbatesman]

This draft sucks for QBs, I'm looking a few years down the line: http://247sports.com/Player/Drew-Pyne-88572

#PiningforPyne

[Paradis]

11 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

Macc ain't going anywhere for the next 2-3 seasons anyway...

Second, drafting a QB at 6 doesn't preclude the NYJ giving Petty and Hack EVERY opportunity this season, gets the newly drafted QB a year in the system and you can still draft another QB next year if needed.  The days of huge SB for high DP QB's like with Sanchez are gone...until you find a QB that should be taken advantage of.

I understand passing on potential impact players and taking another QB will be problematic to some, but not having a QB in todays game is a death knell and keeps you in a constant state of mediocrity as we've seen where fans would kill for a 'game manager'  which is only going to get you so far in today's NFL.

You kidding me? Yes, drafting trubisky -- and him sucking 100% gets him fired. Are you insane? How many kicks at the can does one man have? 

And yes, drafting a QB at 6 fcks with everything -- are you insane? You think the world is going to be OK with redshirting the number 6 behind Hack when he's sucking? And then what happens when Trubisky sucks too? You don't think that blows back on Mac? 

Wake up brah

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Help me out Jif< because I respect your smarts.

Why does drafting a QB (anywhere, be it #6 or in the 5th) mean we're punting on Hack?

First, hack through one year is a major dissapointment, unable to even take a single snap in garbage time.  That doesn't bode well for him.

Second, hack was overdrafted, he was not a 2nd Round Prospect.  He was a reach.

Third, even if we draft a QB, can we not start Hack (if he earns it) and #2 the drafted QB for a year?

Fourth, if Hack cannot beat out a rookie QB.....doesn't that pretty much say Hack isn't the prospect we hope he is, and punting is warranted?

At what point did Hack become so valuable and beloved that we cannot give him legitimate competition?

You may have misunderstood my post. My point was I find it amazing that a team and fan base, like the Jets desperate for a franchise QB is willing to punt on taking a QB at #6 when it seems as if they should have a legit shot at one of the top 3.  

So after clarifying that, I dont think taking a QB at #6 really impacts Hack's positoin on the roster at all.  Let them battle it out.  If Hack wins, cool.  If he doesnt, cool.  Having a plethora of a QB's is a good thing and a welcomed change in Jets land. 

 

[Paradis]

33 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Give it a rest mate. If you have to toss in things like this, it says alot about your character, and the inherent weakness of your argument.

Lets talk football, and maybe avoid making implications about my wife or my IQ.  Or is that too hard for you, to stay on topic?

 

Its what happens why you continue a conversation and fail to appreciate perspective and demonstrate an evolution of opinion. A discussion isn't a discussion if you're not amalgamating new material into your concept of the situation. While my learning disability remark is obviously tongue and cheek, it's based on your attitude.

[Paradis]

28 minutes ago, JiF said:

Holy sh*t...this fan base is actually voting to punt on a QB and wait for next year completely hoping the cards fall right and a millions different factors break in the Jets favor for a player that might not even be leaving school?

lmfao 

I don't think that's at all what's happening here. At least for some. 

The QBs suck this year, and some people (can't speak for OP) think we should play out the current roster and reevaluate next year. More options. 

[Tinstar]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You kidding me? Yes, drafting trubisky -- and him sucking 100% gets him fired. Are you insane? How many kicks at the can does one man have? 

And yes, drafting a QB at 6 fcks with everything -- are you insane? You think the world is going to be OK with redshirting the number 6 behind Hack when he's sucking? And then what happens when Trubisky sucks too? You don't think that blows back on Mac? 

Wake up brah

If this all blows up in his face he should be fired, but that comes with the territory . The Jets don't have a QB, and can't afford to punt on any quality QB.  If the opportunity to trade down presents itself, you move down, but if not, you take the QB, and try to solve this position .  Drafting a QB this year in the 1st shouldn't make drafting another next year an issue if need be .

The Jets need to throw as many pins at the wall as possible and as often as they can to fix this problem .   I am in favor of trading down .