Josh Allen Did Very Well

[August]

1 hour ago, flgreen said:

Well, you added it to the post only to be inflammatory, and divisive, now your going to get defensive because people reacted.  C'mon

I was told to change topics sir. 

[Jetster]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'm not opposed.  But a fair and honest evaluation should be a bit more than the homer dreaming most engage in with Cousins.

Point being I've been arguing here that the Jets will have a VERY hard time signing an available Cousins.  He'll be in demand, and by better teams with better talent and a better front office than us.  And with enough money to pay Cousins the same as we can.

If it's so obvious to Cousins fans, why wouldn't it be similarly obvious to Cleveland, or Denver, or any other QB desperate team?

"Jets have enough to pay more" is not a legitimate analysis.  We're not paying 100 million just because we have it.  Other teams have enough to match any realistic offer we can make, and play in lower tax states, with better team and better history.  

We can love Cousins as much as we like.....he has to love us.  I've seen no evidence of that to-date, so we'll see.

So you say.  No way to know till he plays in Jets Green.  High priced FA QB's have been tried, and failed to replicate former success, before you know.

We'll see.

What free agent QBs who have had 4 years of success on offense (Skins D has been below average for years now), have even come available? 2 of them came from the Tampa organization (Steve Young & Testeverde). 

Like you, I have no idea if Cousins would choose to come to NY, but I'm hoping he will. We know damn well that Kirk Cousins can actually PLAY QB in the NFL. That's a good start. The Skins are run as badly as the Jets. Shannahan wanted Cousins instead of RG3 but Daniel Snyder LOVED the RG3 hype.

This is just one of those strange situations where a player (Cousins) has felt disrespected, unwanted, and the Redskins brass kind of blew it & pissed off a pretty damn good QB. This isn't Matt Flynn we're talking about.

I'm hoping that Cousins considers us based on Joe Gibbs respect for Todd Bowles & the fact Kirk knows Macc tried to trade for him in the past. It won't be just about the money, but not only do we have a lot of money available, we have the money & draft picks to improve everywhere on the offense. All we can do is at least try to persuade him to be a Jet. 

[SenorGato]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

no different than anchoring yourself to 100million QB who doesn't work out. What's worse, blowing a first round pick, or 65 million guaranteed.

It's a pick your poison scenario. 

Very very different because that’s not how NFL contracts work, never has been and probably never will be. Unless he’s getting $100 garaunteed, he’s not getting $100 million as a bust. Then there’s the fact that all the most expensive QB busts have come through the draft and not FA - Russell being the all time example.

Then there’s the actual chances of Cousins the individual going bust in the first place. Just on NFL spending habits, if there’s multiple teams clearing cap for a FA QB knowing he expects to get paid there’s probably a very small shot of this player being a bust. Throw in his actual performance and the chances shrink further.

[Jetster]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

no different than anchoring yourself to 100million QB who doesn't work out. What's worse, blowing a first round pick, or 65 million guaranteed.

It's a pick your poison scenario. 

Why wouldn't Cousins work out? The guy can play. You don't throw for 4000 yards 3 years in a row in this league if you cant play. He also did it after losing Garcon, Jackson, and playing behind an injured shuffled oline, and down to his 4th string RB, and Reed his TE was hurt & missed all kinds of time. 

[Untouchable]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Oh PUH-lease.... Take that sh*t somewhere else. You want Cousins, that's cool. But spare me the crap about dicking around -- an outcome that is far more likely when signing FA QBs than drafting one in the top 5 of the draft. Don't pretend for a second that going after Rosen is "just dicking around". 

One can like Cousins... one can even like him a lot and feel he is a the best way to address the QB spot this year, but don't descredit the other option, drafting a franchise QB at the top of 1... that is still the most tried and true way to address the position. 

No, I’d say dicking around and pissing in the dark is far more likely with an unproven rookie over a guy who has been a Top 10 NFL QB statistically ever since he took over as a fulltime starter.

Rosen already has a surgically repaired right shoulder and suffered 2 concussions in 2017 alone. The last two years the whiny beanstalk hasn’t made it through the season. Yet I’m supposed to believe that trading away picks to move up for him is no more of a risk than signing Cousins, keeping all of our picks and sticking him in an offense that he’s already proven successful in? Please.

[SenorGato]

34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Point being I've been arguing here that the Jets will have a VERY hard time signing an available Cousins.  He'll be in demand, and by better teams with better talent and a better front office than us.  And with enough money to pay Cousins the same as we can.

Still not a true story outside of the Browns, 49ers, and maybe Vikings, not without those other teams making themselve worse first by cutting multiple starters. 

 

[Philc1]

Cousins isn’t just costing money he is going to cost pick(s) too

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Yet I’m supposed to believe that trading away picks to move up for him is no more of a risk than signing Cousins and sticking him in an offense that he’s already proven successful in? Please.

and i'm supposed to believe the guy who hasn't won sh*t will suddenly start winning sh*t in NY??... Why?? What about playing here is so god damn intertwined with winning... NEWSFLASH the NFC EAST HAS LARGELY SUCKED THE ENTIRE TIME HE PLAYED IN WSH... and he couldn't get his team over the top. Fcking 8-8 teams with playoff hopes...   You think it's gonna be any better here? Playing in the AFC east?? yea... i'd say there's just as much reason to be skeptical on both accountants. You can cry to me a river about Cousins numbers here and numbers there till the cows come home... Doesn't mean anything if he isn't winning games.

Chris Thompson. You wanna know who the real hero was in WSH? look at the wins and losses when that guy was playing in games. Kirk should hand over half his contract signing bonus to Thompson. 

 

Anyway, your attitude is getting me worked up. And i don't need this. I don't think Cousins is the worst thing in the world. I've come to accept he's an option and a reasonable one at that if you can stomach the contract... but don't fcking tell me that we're dicking around with drafting a QB at the top of 1.... just don't. 

[#27TheDominator]

Supposing Cousins is a bust, what level "bust" are we talking about?  A Brock Osweiler level bust?  Cause beyond that, people thought that Alex Smith and Sam Bradford were overpaid when they signed their contracts and they were traded for some pretty decent picks.  Cousins $28.5M per may well look like a bigger bargain than Bradford @2/$36M with $26M guaranteed by this time in 2019.

[Philc1]

7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

and i'm supposed to believe the guy who hasn't won sh*t will suddenly start winning sh*t in NY??... Why?? What about playing here is so god damn intertwined with winning... NEWSFLASH the NFC EAST HAS LARGELY SUCKED THE ENTIRE TIME HE PLAYED IN WSH... and he couldn't get his team over the top. Fcking 8-8 teams with playoff hopes...   You think it's gonna be any better here? Playing in the AFC east?? yea... i'd say there's just as much reason to be skeptical on both accountants. You can cry to me a river about Cousins numbers here and numbers there till the cows come home... Doesn't mean anything if he isn't winning games.

Chris Thompson. You wanna know who the real hero was in WSH? look at the wins and losses when that guy was playing in games. Kirk should hand over half his contract signing bonus to Thompson. 

 

Anyway, your attitude is getting me worked up. And i don't need this. I don't think Cousins is the worst thing in the world. I've come to accept he's an option and a reasonable one at that if you can stomach the contract... but don't fcking tell me that we're dicking around with drafting a QB at the top of 1.... just don't. 

Cousins was never that good in Washington but pair him up with Jarvis Landry, Allen Robinson, Robby, and Enunwa that’s a capable offense

 

I’m not even a Cousins ball washer but ofcourse he’s an upgrade over the hot garbage we have been forced to watch

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

and i'm supposed to believe the guy who hasn't won sh*t will suddenly start winning sh*t in NY??... Why?? What about playing here is so god damn intertwined with winning... NEWSFLASH the NFC EAST HAS LARGELY SUCKED THE ENTIRE TIME HE PLAYED IN WSH... and he couldn't get his team over the top. Fcking 8-8 teams with playoff hopes...   You think it's gonna be any better here? Playing in the AFC east?? yea... i'd say there's just as much reason to be skeptical on both accountants. You can cry to me a river about Cousins numbers here and numbers there till the cows come home... Doesn't mean anything if he isn't winning games.

Chris Thompson. You wanna know who the real hero was in WSH? look at the wins and losses when that guy was playing in games. Kirk should hand over half his contract signing bonus to Thompson. 

 

Anyway, your attitude is getting me worked up. And i don't need this. I don't think Cousins is the worst thing in the world. I've come to accept he's an option and a reasonable one at that if you can stomach the contract... but don't fcking tell me that we're dicking around with drafting a QB at the top of 1.... just don't. 

And I’m supposed to believe that the kid who never won dick at UCLA and gets banged up whenever the wind blows will save the franchise?

Cousins just put up another 4,000+ yard, 25+ TD season with 6 different starting combinations on the OL, Jordan Reed missing the majority of the season, and a sh*t defense backing him up that was abysmal late in games.

I’m taking Cousins all day if possible. And if we can’t land him, I’d try my damndest to move up for Darnold, not Rosen or a shrimp like Mayfield.

[Paradis]

10 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

And I’m supposed to believe that the kid who never won dick at UCLA and gets banged up whenever the wind blows will save the franchise?

Cousins just put up another 4,000+ yard, 25+ TD season with 6 different starting combinations on the OL, Jordan Reed missing the majority of the season, and a sh*t defense backing him up that was abysmal late in games.

I’m taking Cousins all day if possible. And if we can’t land him, I’d try my damndest to move up for Darnold, not Rosen or a shrimp like Mayfield.

I wouldn't blame anyone for being nervous about Rosen's injuries. I personally am OK with it, but can't fault someone for feeling like that's a risk.

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

And I’m supposed to believe that the kid who never won dick at UCLA and gets banged up whenever the wind blows will save the franchise?

Cousins just put up another 4,000+ yard, 25+ TD season with 6 different starting combinations on the OL, Jordan Reed missing the majority of the season, and a sh*t defense backing him up that was abysmal late in games.

I’m taking Cousins all day if possible. And if we can’t land him, I’d try my damndest to move up for Darnold, not Rosen or a shrimp like Mayfield.

There is nothing wrong with this position.  

The problem is:

1. We're not the only ones who will want him that bad.  Others will too, who have more to offer, lower taxes, better players, and just as much money.

2. His performance there =/= his performance here.  It's a nice thought that we're "better" than the Skins, but is not factually accurate, even with injuries they're a better team.  He is not a sure thing, nobody is.  It's a worthy pursuit, I agree.  But expecting him to thrive under Bowles system....well, we'll see I suppose, if we get him.

Darnold tho, ffs no.  Just no.  Of all the players worth selling your draft future for, THAT guy is not the guy.  

[Untouchable]

25 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I wouldn't blame anyone for being nervous about Rosen's injuries. I personally am OK with it, but can't fault someone for feeling like that's a risk.

He checks almost every box but the fragility scares the piss out of me.

I can see why many love him. He’s essentially Matt Ryan with a cannon. But is he going to be one of those guys whose career is dramatically cut short? Is he going to miss 3-5 games every other year because of nagging injuries, essentially derailing our season in the process?

Those are the big questions. I personally could care less about his “party boy” persona as long as it doesn't interfere with his preparation.

[Untouchable]

53 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There is nothing wrong with this position.  

The problem is:

1. We're not the only ones who will want him that bad.  Others will too, who have more to offer, lower taxes, better players, and just as much money.

2. His performance there =/= his performance here.  It's a nice thought that we're "better" than the Skins, but is not factually accurate, even with injuries they're a better team.  He is not a sure thing, nobody is.  It's a worthy pursuit, I agree.  But expecting him to thrive under Bowles system....well, we'll see I suppose, if we get him.

Darnold tho, ffs no.  Just no.  Of all the players worth selling your draft future for, THAT guy is not the guy.  

There will be other bidders, but Cleveland is really the only team that can offer what the Jets can in terms of cold, hard cash. And they have their pick of any QB in the draft. I don’t see them pursuing Cousins.

The Jets can offer a frontloaded contract paying him $35+ mill in each of the first two years of the deal, blowing teams like Denver, Minnesota and Jacksonville out of the water. Ask any player and they’ll tell you that they would immensely prefer a front loaded contract getting most of their cash as soon as possible. After all, these deals aren’t fully guaranteed and injuries happen.

And it’s not like the Jets would be left with nothing after signing Cousins. Hell, they could go out and sign Andrew Norwell and a center like Jensen/Richburg and still have the spare cash to bring in a wideout like Jarvis Landry or Sammy Watkins as well as re-sign a couple of their own guys like Claiborne and Davis.

And that’s not even taking into account a Top 6 pick and two additional picks in the Top 50 to bolster the team around Cousins.

If the Jets handle this offseason correctly, there’s no reason why this team can’t transform into an immediate playoff contender next season and have a nice nucleus to build on for the next 5+ years.

[SenorGato]

39 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There is nothing wrong with this position.  

The problem is:

1. We're not the only ones who will want him that bad.  Others will too, who have more to offer, lower taxes, better players, and just as much money.

2. His performance there =/= his performance here.  It's a nice thought that we're "better" than the Skins, but is not factually accurate, even with injuries they're a better team.  He is not a sure thing, nobody is.  It's a worthy pursuit, I agree.  But expecting him to thrive under Bowles system....well, we'll see I suppose, if we get him.

1 - Outside of two teams, no one outright has even the same amount of money as the Jets to offer.

2 - He’s not a sure thing in the nebulous sense that nobody is, but NFL QB performance transfers and he’s been playing like a top ten QB far more often than not as a starter. 

[HessStation]

3 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

1 - Outside of two teams, no one outright has even the same amount of money as the Jets to offer.

2 - He’s not a sure thing in the nebulous sense that nobody is, but NFL QB performance transfers and he’s been playing like a top ten QB far more often than not as a starter. 

Two really good years, last year McCown performed better and we fired the OC.

no playoff wins

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Two really good years, last year McCown performed better and we fired the OC.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Yeah, McCown wasn’t better in 2017 or even particularly close. Only a select few Jets fans see Morton as a savior, nobody else cares he’s gone. 

8 minutes ago, HessStation said:

no playoff wins

Which, using Hess math, puts him on level with:

Wentz

Goff

Mariota

Winston

Luck

Stafford

Watson

Prescott

Jimmy G.

Rosen

Darnold

Mayfield

Future draft QBs 

The only under age 34 QBs with a playoff win let alone multiple in this NFL are Foles and Russell Wilson. 

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Yeah, McCown wasn’t better in 2017 or even particularly close. Only a select few Jets fans see Morton as a savior, nobody else cares he’s gone. 

Which, using Hess math, puts him on level with:

Wentz

Goff

Mariota

Winston

Luck

Stafford

Watson

Prescott

Jimmy G.

Rosen

Darnold

Mayfield

Future draft QBs 

The only under age 34 QBs with a playoff win let alone multiple in this NFL are Foles and Russell Wilson. 

Look at QBR diggleberry. None of those guys are 30 years old and cost 30MM per

[Untouchable]

3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Look at QBR diggleberry. None of those guys are 30 years old and cost 30MM per

Stafford essentially is/does.

[SenorGato]

10 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Look at QBR diggleberry. None of those guys are 30 years old and cost 30MM per

Rotfl 52 to 52.4! Numbnuts one stat on an index with nearly a dozen that go against your conclusion is not how it’s done (outside of JN, where 2+2 can be anything depending on how we feel each 2 should be perceived in a given moment). 

As far as the money give it two years for extensions to start rolling out. I also suspect I will not lose a dollar I do not want to out of this, as will we all. 

[HessStation]

8 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Rotfl 52 to 52.4! Numbnuts one stat on an index with nearly a dozen that go against your conclusion is not how it’s done (outside of JN, where 2+2 can be anything depending on how we feel each 2 should be perceived in a given moment). 

As far as the money give it two years for extensions to start rolling out. I also suspect I will not lose a dollar I do not want to out of this, as will we all. 

What does QBR stand for and why is it highlighted in green?

[HessStation]

10 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Stafford essentially is/does.

I would like Matthew Stafford please.

[SenorGato]

2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

What does QBR stand for and why is it highlighted in green?

Scroll up on the linked page and read Hess, you had the time to comb through and cherry pick it might as well take another four seconds. The stat is highlighted in green because it’s an ESPN and not FO metric. 

[SenorGato]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I would like Matthew Stafford please.

No playoff wins! 0-3! Flip flop more! 

[HessStation]

5 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Scroll up on the linked page and read Hess, you had the time to comb through and cherry pick it might as well take another four seconds. The stat is highlighted in green because it’s an ESPN and not FO metric. 

I read all about it sounds important but if you say so. 

So why don't you want Keenum? He's better and cheaper according to FO.

[HessStation]

5 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

No playoff wins! 0-3! Flip flop more! 

That arm though. I'd like Matt Stafford. Much better than Cousins.

[jetsfansince7]

I would but I was told to change the topic. Sorry. 

Do you always do what you’re told?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[HessStation]

Can we give Matt Stafford 30MM to be our QB please?

[SenorGato]

11 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I read all about it

Seems like it

11 minutes ago, HessStation said:

That arm though. I'd like Matt Stafford. Much better than Cousins.

Ah, fell for the ol’ Hess troll. 

[HessStation]

4 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Seems like it

Ah, fell for the ol’ Hess troll 

Whatever if you don't follow the statistics I can't help you.

in 7 seasons Stafford never had as a bad a year as Cousins did last year and he has to play for Detroit.

 

plus he was a top 10 QB 5 of those 7 years. 

You trying to compare the two is fun to watch though

 

why aren't you hard up for Keenum dude?

[HessStation]

2017 QB ranks per DYAR

Keenum 4th

Cousins 16th

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

There will be other bidders, but Cleveland is really the only team that can offer what the Jets can in terms of cold, hard cash. And they have their pick of any QB in the draft.

I'm sorry, but this is simply not accurate.  Gross Cap Space =/= Ability to sign/pay a guy.  This is why every team has a Cap Specialist, accountants ftw.

Yes, they can match us.  Unless we overpay to such a degree that would border on insanity.

Quote

I don’t see them pursuing Cousins.

TBD, we'll see who chasing him IF he shakes loose.  And IF the Skins don't franchise him then try and trade him.

Quote

The Jets can offer a frontloaded contract paying him $35+ mill in each of the first two years of the deal, blowing teams like Denver, Minnesota and Jacksonville out of the water.

Yeah, that's a nice thought, it's just not accurate.  Each of those teams can match terms/conditions in a way where Cousins won't care about the differences or cap ramifications.  

Quote

Ask any player and they’ll tell you that they would immensely prefer a front loaded contract getting most of their cash as soon as possible. After all, these deals aren’t fully guaranteed and injuries happen.

Oh a goodly portion of whomever signs Cousins will indeed be guaranteeing much of the deal, be assured.

Again, Gross Cap Space =/= Ability to Frontload what Cousins will see in payments.  

Quote

And it’s not like the Jets would be left with nothing after signing Cousins.

We'll see, if he doesn't shake loose we could be less three draft picks if we want him.

Quote

Hell, they could go out and sign Andrew Norwell and a center like Jensen/Richburg and still have the spare cash to bring in a wideout like Jarvis Landry or Sammy Watkins as well as re-sign a couple of their own guys like Claiborne and Davis.

And that’s not even taking into account a Top 6 pick and two additional picks in the Top 50 to bolster the team around Cousins.

If the Jets handle this offseason correctly, there’s no reason why this team can’t transform into an immediate playoff contender next season and have a nice nucleus to build on for the next 5+ years.

As I say, we'll see.  I think you're view is quite homer-friendly, every break and every option falling perfectly for the Jets, and based on (IMO) an inaccurate reading of how cap space and contracts work.

I'd love a perfect storm for us too.  We get a top 10 QB who stays top 10, we can afford him AND keep our picks AND sign a raft of new FA's ar vital spots, and suddenly we're in the running.  

Sadly, reality rarely works out so perfectly.  I just caution you that you're setting yourself up for ALOT of disappointment.   Given THIS regime and the way they work (or fail to work).

[SenorGato]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

You trying to compare the two is fun to watch though

 What comparison? Stafford has 3 times the playoff losses dingleberry and has never had an individual season by DVOA or DYAR as good as 2015 and 2016 Cousins. 

[SenorGato]

5 minutes ago, HessStation said:

2017 QB ranks per DYAR

Keenum 4th

Cousins 16th

Now do every other year of their careers