REAL REASON why we should go all in for Kirk Cousins

[varjet]

20 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The money isnt more or less the same. Denver would have to strip their team to afford Kirk. Jacksonville wouldnt have enough cap even after cutting Bortles. Vikings dont have a ton of cap. None of these teams can offer whay the Jets can money wise except Cleveland....and if it came down to us and Cleveland i would be confident. 

Denver cant offer $150 million and 75 guaranteed without getting rid of the guys that made them SB contenders with Kirk. If you have to cut them then whats the point for Kirk? 

Minnesota has the money for him.  They will offer 27.5

[afjetsfan]

15 minutes ago, varjet said:

Minnesota has the money for him.  They will offer 27.5

I think the Jets will drive KC's value higher than 27.5, probably around 150M for a 5 year deal, most of it guaranteed, and I think the Vikings offer it.  They have the money.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I had to change my mind on this after seeing this through the correct perspective. Every offseason we sit and discuss players the Jets could potentially spend cash on. Every season we have this discussion regarding QB's and every year I feel like there's that 1 QB that folks are over hyping and therefore are attempting to overpay. Then I came across an audio clip and it all made sense. The bottomline is this: "NFL contracts are NOT fully guaranteed". 

We can look at plenty of QB contracts of the past and whether we think they overpaid or not, one thing that is always evident is that the organization has a way of getting out of the contract. ALWAYS. This is the difference between my initial perspective and me now being pro Kirk Cousins signing. Kirk Cousins is not like many of the other QB's over the years who have been viewed through rose-colored lenses and organisations overpaid based on potential. Kirk Cousins has a history and this is rare in the free agency market this day and age. 

With that said, performance isn't guaranteed when it comes to free agent signings, however, neither are contracts. There is a greater chance of Kirk Cousins being the Kirk Cousins we know than AJ McCarron being more than the AJ McCarron we know. There's a greater change of Kirk Cousins being the Kirk Cousins we know than our personal favourite rookie QB with the incredible upside that's way past Kirks upside actually ever making it to that upside....let alone even being as good as Kirk Cousins. 

In an age where draft picks are more valuable than free agent money, in an age where QB's of even Kirk Cousins caliber rarely-if-ever makes it to free agency, I think that the NY Jets should throw everything they have to assuring that the acquire KC's services for the next 3 seasons. This does not mean that we can't draft a QB at all. What it does do is add stability to this QB position from a talent, youth and experience standpoint. Kirk has the talent, he's not a rookie so he has the experience but he's not over the hill, the man is in his prime right now. We're talking about potentially signing a guy during his best years while having the ability to develop talent behind him. We may not win a SB with Kirk...but we can definitely be in the playoffs which gives us a shot at the SB. 

This NY Jets team needs to change from this "defensive-minded" perspective and we need some fire power on offense and we need to put up points. Wins/losses aside, one thing that we cannot say is that a Kirk Cousins led offense could not put points on the board. 

Think of it this way. 

In 2017 our record was 5-11

Of the 11 games lost, 6 we lost by one score or less

In 2016 our record was 5-11

of the 11 games lost, 4 we lost by one score or less

In 2015 our record was 10-6

of the 6 games lost, 5 we lost by one score or less

In 2014 our record was 4-12

of the 12 games lost, 7 were by one score or less. 

 

The point being, our problem has always been offensive firepower. Any Jets fan over the past decade can tell you that many of these games lost the score doesn't necessarily reflect. A lot of times the Jets defense held the opponent for most of the game yet received no help offensively and when the defense finally gives up a score or two the offense then continues to do just enough to lose. The Jets have never had an offense that could give the defense some breathing room...even during the years we went to the AFCCG's. The best example of having an offense that gave the defense a cushion was when we had Brett Favre. Here's an example pre-injury

In 2008 the Jets were 8-3 pre Favre injury. 

During that span of the 8 games won, 4 were by double digits or more. 

of the 8 games won, all the Jets scored 20 or more points, 4 were 30 points or more, and 1 was 56 points. 

Post injury the Jets were 1-4

None of the games we lost the Jets score more than 17 points. 

 

2008 is a direct reflection of the importance of the QB position and what happens to a season/team when there's no QB to put points on the board. Sure, Kirk isn't putting up Favre numbers TD wise, but it's enough to kick-start this team for sure...and who knows what Kirk will be able to do with an organization that believes in him and is willing to pay for him, something the Redskins did not do. Sure, we can talk about giving all of this money to a player that another team just "gave away"....but when was the last time we thought the redskins were making smart moves anyway? Also, they didn't pay Cousins, but it's not like Cousins didn't deserve it and the Redskins were "right for not paying him". Matter of fact, they did pay him because they tagged him twice and he's made almost 50 million over the past 2 seasons....yet if you were to put Cousins in a Jets Uniform the last 2 seasons he would probably be the best QB in Jets history already. Sersiously, there are some folks who felt that Ryan Fitzpatrick produced the greatest season they've ever seen by a QB in a Jets uni. Kirk Cousins would be a legend if he just maintain what he's been doing. 

 

Im on board for giving Kirk Cousins whatever he wants to get him here. If he wants a 5 year $150 million with $75 million guaranteed I say do it without hesitation and front load that contract as much as you can. Pay him like 50 million in the first year and by year two you're already out of the dog house financially with more draft picks and now a much more viable landing spot for other free agents in the future because your quarterback is Kirk Cousins. If things don't work out then the Jets could be out of this contract in 2 years while having developed a guy like Kyle Lauletta in the background. 

 

This is the smartest decision the Jets can make and I don't think there is a team outside of the Browns that can compete monetarily, but I don't think that a team with a 1-31 record over the past 2 years Kirk Cousins will go to for any amount. 

 

Signing Kirk Cousins to a ridiculous contract is the right decision because in reality these contracts can be manipulated for the organisations to get out of. 

 

VTF

 

 

For the record, if we're drafting Kyle Lauletta then I'm totally fine with signing Cousins (and giving Lauletta a couple of years to learn).

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I had to change my mind on this after seeing this through the correct perspective. Every offseason we sit and discuss players the Jets could potentially spend cash on. Every season we have this discussion regarding QB's and every year I feel like there's that 1 QB that folks are over hyping and therefore are attempting to overpay. Then I came across an audio clip and it all made sense. The bottomline is this: "NFL contracts are NOT fully guaranteed". 

We can look at plenty of QB contracts of the past and whether we think they overpaid or not, one thing that is always evident is that the organization has a way of getting out of the contract. ALWAYS. This is the difference between my initial perspective and me now being pro Kirk Cousins signing. Kirk Cousins is not like many of the other QB's over the years who have been viewed through rose-colored lenses and organisations overpaid based on potential. Kirk Cousins has a history and this is rare in the free agency market this day and age. 

With that said, performance isn't guaranteed when it comes to free agent signings, however, neither are contracts. There is a greater chance of Kirk Cousins being the Kirk Cousins we know than AJ McCarron being more than the AJ McCarron we know. There's a greater change of Kirk Cousins being the Kirk Cousins we know than our personal favourite rookie QB with the incredible upside that's way past Kirks upside actually ever making it to that upside....let alone even being as good as Kirk Cousins. 

In an age where draft picks are more valuable than free agent money, in an age where QB's of even Kirk Cousins caliber rarely-if-ever makes it to free agency, I think that the NY Jets should throw everything they have to assuring that the acquire KC's services for the next 3 seasons. This does not mean that we can't draft a QB at all. What it does do is add stability to this QB position from a talent, youth and experience standpoint. Kirk has the talent, he's not a rookie so he has the experience but he's not over the hill, the man is in his prime right now. We're talking about potentially signing a guy during his best years while having the ability to develop talent behind him. We may not win a SB with Kirk...but we can definitely be in the playoffs which gives us a shot at the SB. 

This NY Jets team needs to change from this "defensive-minded" perspective and we need some fire power on offense and we need to put up points. Wins/losses aside, one thing that we cannot say is that a Kirk Cousins led offense could not put points on the board. 

Think of it this way. 

In 2017 our record was 5-11

Of the 11 games lost, 6 we lost by one score or less

In 2016 our record was 5-11

of the 11 games lost, 4 we lost by one score or less

In 2015 our record was 10-6

of the 6 games lost, 5 we lost by one score or less

In 2014 our record was 4-12

of the 12 games lost, 7 were by one score or less. 

 

The point being, our problem has always been offensive firepower. Any Jets fan over the past decade can tell you that many of these games lost the score doesn't necessarily reflect. A lot of times the Jets defense held the opponent for most of the game yet received no help offensively and when the defense finally gives up a score or two the offense then continues to do just enough to lose. The Jets have never had an offense that could give the defense some breathing room...even during the years we went to the AFCCG's. The best example of having an offense that gave the defense a cushion was when we had Brett Favre. Here's an example pre-injury

In 2008 the Jets were 8-3 pre Favre injury. 

During that span of the 8 games won, 4 were by double digits or more. 

of the 8 games won, all the Jets scored 20 or more points, 4 were 30 points or more, and 1 was 56 points. 

Post injury the Jets were 1-4

None of the games we lost the Jets score more than 17 points. 

 

2008 is a direct reflection of the importance of the QB position and what happens to a season/team when there's no QB to put points on the board. Sure, Kirk isn't putting up Favre numbers TD wise, but it's enough to kick-start this team for sure...and who knows what Kirk will be able to do with an organization that believes in him and is willing to pay for him, something the Redskins did not do. Sure, we can talk about giving all of this money to a player that another team just "gave away"....but when was the last time we thought the redskins were making smart moves anyway? Also, they didn't pay Cousins, but it's not like Cousins didn't deserve it and the Redskins were "right for not paying him". Matter of fact, they did pay him because they tagged him twice and he's made almost 50 million over the past 2 seasons....yet if you were to put Cousins in a Jets Uniform the last 2 seasons he would probably be the best QB in Jets history already. Sersiously, there are some folks who felt that Ryan Fitzpatrick produced the greatest season they've ever seen by a QB in a Jets uni. Kirk Cousins would be a legend if he just maintain what he's been doing. 

 

Im on board for giving Kirk Cousins whatever he wants to get him here. If he wants a 5 year $150 million with $75 million guaranteed I say do it without hesitation and front load that contract as much as you can. Pay him like 50 million in the first year and by year two you're already out of the dog house financially with more draft picks and now a much more viable landing spot for other free agents in the future because your quarterback is Kirk Cousins. If things don't work out then the Jets could be out of this contract in 2 years while having developed a guy like Kyle Lauletta in the background. 

 

This is the smartest decision the Jets can make and I don't think there is a team outside of the Browns that can compete monetarily, but I don't think that a team with a 1-31 record over the past 2 years Kirk Cousins will go to for any amount. 

 

Signing Kirk Cousins to a ridiculous contract is the right decision because in reality these contracts can be manipulated for the organisations to get out of. 

 

VTF

 

 

nice thoughts and good logic. yes they should still draft a qb and look ahead a few seasons.  lauletta, falk, etc. could be good later round pickups.  but assuming cousins decides to head west one plan could be to sign mccarron and then use the 6 pick on a qb.  this is much like what chicago did with glennon.  too early to tell if it works out but at least they took a good hard look.

[Jet Blast]

Excellent post VTF. I'm with you on this.

 

[rex-n-effect]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I had to change my mind on this after seeing this through the correct perspective. Every offseason we sit and discuss players the Jets could potentially spend cash on. Every season we have this discussion regarding QB's and every year I feel like there's that 1 QB that folks are over hyping and therefore are attempting to overpay. Then I came across an audio clip and it all made sense. The bottomline is this: "NFL contracts are NOT fully guaranteed". 

You're really the last person to have any credibility to talk about anybody else overhyping a QB. lol

[HessStation]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I only got up to Book Six (where Odysseus is chatting up the Phaenician broads on Scheria) but is your point that we need to sign Cousins because the organization is too inept to do anything else?

yyyyye...

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

no. 

wait what?

[Lupz27]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I had to change my mind on this after seeing this through the correct perspective. Every offseason we sit and discuss players the Jets could potentially spend cash on. Every season we have this discussion regarding QB's and every year I feel like there's that 1 QB that folks are over hyping and therefore are attempting to overpay. Then I came across an audio clip and it all made sense. The bottomline is this: "NFL contracts are NOT fully guaranteed". 

We can look at plenty of QB contracts of the past and whether we think they overpaid or not, one thing that is always evident is that the organization has a way of getting out of the contract. ALWAYS. This is the difference between my initial perspective and me now being pro Kirk Cousins signing. Kirk Cousins is not like many of the other QB's over the years who have been viewed through rose-colored lenses and organisations overpaid based on potential. Kirk Cousins has a history and this is rare in the free agency market this day and age. 

With that said, performance isn't guaranteed when it comes to free agent signings, however, neither are contracts. There is a greater chance of Kirk Cousins being the Kirk Cousins we know than AJ McCarron being more than the AJ McCarron we know. There's a greater change of Kirk Cousins being the Kirk Cousins we know than our personal favourite rookie QB with the incredible upside that's way past Kirks upside actually ever making it to that upside....let alone even being as good as Kirk Cousins. 

In an age where draft picks are more valuable than free agent money, in an age where QB's of even Kirk Cousins caliber rarely-if-ever makes it to free agency, I think that the NY Jets should throw everything they have to assuring that the acquire KC's services for the next 3 seasons. This does not mean that we can't draft a QB at all. What it does do is add stability to this QB position from a talent, youth and experience standpoint. Kirk has the talent, he's not a rookie so he has the experience but he's not over the hill, the man is in his prime right now. We're talking about potentially signing a guy during his best years while having the ability to develop talent behind him. We may not win a SB with Kirk...but we can definitely be in the playoffs which gives us a shot at the SB. 

This NY Jets team needs to change from this "defensive-minded" perspective and we need some fire power on offense and we need to put up points. Wins/losses aside, one thing that we cannot say is that a Kirk Cousins led offense could not put points on the board. 

Think of it this way. 

In 2017 our record was 5-11

Of the 11 games lost, 6 we lost by one score or less

In 2016 our record was 5-11

of the 11 games lost, 4 we lost by one score or less

In 2015 our record was 10-6

of the 6 games lost, 5 we lost by one score or less

In 2014 our record was 4-12

of the 12 games lost, 7 were by one score or less. 

 

The point being, our problem has always been offensive firepower. Any Jets fan over the past decade can tell you that many of these games lost the score doesn't necessarily reflect. A lot of times the Jets defense held the opponent for most of the game yet received no help offensively and when the defense finally gives up a score or two the offense then continues to do just enough to lose. The Jets have never had an offense that could give the defense some breathing room...even during the years we went to the AFCCG's. The best example of having an offense that gave the defense a cushion was when we had Brett Favre. Here's an example pre-injury

In 2008 the Jets were 8-3 pre Favre injury. 

During that span of the 8 games won, 4 were by double digits or more. 

of the 8 games won, all the Jets scored 20 or more points, 4 were 30 points or more, and 1 was 56 points. 

Post injury the Jets were 1-4

None of the games we lost the Jets score more than 17 points. 

 

2008 is a direct reflection of the importance of the QB position and what happens to a season/team when there's no QB to put points on the board. Sure, Kirk isn't putting up Favre numbers TD wise, but it's enough to kick-start this team for sure...and who knows what Kirk will be able to do with an organization that believes in him and is willing to pay for him, something the Redskins did not do. Sure, we can talk about giving all of this money to a player that another team just "gave away"....but when was the last time we thought the redskins were making smart moves anyway? Also, they didn't pay Cousins, but it's not like Cousins didn't deserve it and the Redskins were "right for not paying him". Matter of fact, they did pay him because they tagged him twice and he's made almost 50 million over the past 2 seasons....yet if you were to put Cousins in a Jets Uniform the last 2 seasons he would probably be the best QB in Jets history already. Sersiously, there are some folks who felt that Ryan Fitzpatrick produced the greatest season they've ever seen by a QB in a Jets uni. Kirk Cousins would be a legend if he just maintain what he's been doing. 

 

Im on board for giving Kirk Cousins whatever he wants to get him here. If he wants a 5 year $150 million with $75 million guaranteed I say do it without hesitation and front load that contract as much as you can. Pay him like 50 million in the first year and by year two you're already out of the dog house financially with more draft picks and now a much more viable landing spot for other free agents in the future because your quarterback is Kirk Cousins. If things don't work out then the Jets could be out of this contract in 2 years while having developed a guy like Kyle Lauletta in the background. 

 

This is the smartest decision the Jets can make and I don't think there is a team outside of the Browns that can compete monetarily, but I don't think that a team with a 1-31 record over the past 2 years Kirk Cousins will go to for any amount. 

 

Signing Kirk Cousins to a ridiculous contract is the right decision because in reality these contracts can be manipulated for the organisations to get out of. 

 

VTF

 

 

Meh Kirk Cousins is 4-18 VS teams with a winning record.  Sorry not for 30+ million.  At the 25 million you sort of suggest here I’d be less upset, and be ok with it eventually, but it sounds like 25 million per is not a reality for Cousins.

[kevinc855]

Thank you for this. I simply can’t understannd or never will understand the don’t sign Kirk cousins argument 

[The Walrus]

I flip flop daily on the Cousins vs Draftee debate. Can see both sides and the opening post is well thought out IMO.

It's possible neither is wrong, Cousins may go to a Superbowl and so may whoever we might sign at #6.

The guarantee years is a good point. $90M / 3 years I think gets him and gives us the ability to not give up the next half decade if wrong. Regardless, any play Cousins does will be by far the best we've had in the last decade.

So Plan A, offer Cousins the $90M / 3 years guarantee (or whatever figure is close)  plus the rest non guarantee.

Plan B, if we find out we haven't landed him get all in on trading up. And if we find out at 2am, then start calling by 2:05am on trading up.

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Beerfish said:

See the bolded part.

You are very desperate if you are paying elite money to non elite players.

The current coach and gm i have very little confidence in so if we go get that beat qb to go 8-8 the next three years it will be the jets time machine.

If he gets a contact like JG fine, that is not what we are hearing.

This isn't about desperation but about stability. The "elite" QB's in the league for the most part aren't even on elite contracts. However, you're not paying elite money for elite QB's you're paying premium money for premium players, and Kirk Cousins is a premium player whether you want to admit that or not. 

If the Jets go 8-8 it won't be because of the QB position. I'd rather spend the money to get a premium QB rather than trading a crap load of draft picks just to move up a spot or two just to draft a rookie QB that isn't guaranteed to pan out, nor has any actual professional history. 

This elite money is nonsense. This money is easily replaced, draft picks aren't. Get the QB and then build around him. 

[Villain The Foe]

5 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Villian

Thank you, you finally joined us!!!  

My bad, I know it took a minute but Im here now!

[Villain The Foe]

5 hours ago, varjet said:

Minnesota has the money for him.  They will offer 27.5

The Vikings have 49 million in salary cap

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings

The Jets have 73 million in Salary cap and thats before cutting Mo Wilk. 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets

 

Minn has the money for him, but the Jets have more money for him. 

 

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The Vikings have 49 million in salary cap

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings

The Jets have 73 million in Salary cap and thats before cutting Mo Wilk. 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets

 

Minn has the money for him, but the Jets have more money for him. 

 

The fact Minny is so SB ready may make the money a non factor honestly.

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

which is a main reason that is overlooked on why Cousins may not want to come here - the head coach is a defensive guy that still doesn't understand it's an offensive league in the regular season. An explosive offense can mask a lot of holes on the defense. 

I would much rather pick our own QB and have Bates develop him into a better QB than Cousins is going to be. I'd rather set my sites much higher than settling for a solid QB.

And that here is the problem. Guys think that because their favourite QB has a higher upside that means that it will suddenly happen through development or at worse that QB will be as good as Kirk. 

Andrew Luck had the upside to be the best QB in the league....he has yet to achieve that. You don't pass on Kirk Cousins when the entire franchise history has been based on not having a qb and not being able to develop QB's. If you have the opportunity to stabilise the position you do it. It doesn't mean that you can't still draft a QB to learn behind Cousins but We've drafted Hackenberg, Petty, Geno, Sanchez, Boyd, McElroy, Ainge, Clemens, Brad Smith, Bollinger and Pennington. That's 12 QB's drafted by this franchise since 2000. None of them are as good as Kirk Cousins. Outside of Penny, none of them developed and became anything, and the only one that amounted to anything is Chad Pennington but injuries Tom Brady and Peyton Manning cut that one short

We can go back to the beginning of this franchise history and look at all of the QB's we've drafted and the only 3 names that will pop up is Chad Pennington, Ken Obrien and Joe Namath. More than a half century and we have 3 QB's that we can look at with some sense of a positive outlook. 

 

Thats pathetic. Buy Kirk Cousins services and stop pretending that rather picking "our own QB" is so much more easier to develop and make into an better QB than Kirk Cousins. We've haven't had a 4,000 yard passer since Namath....and we've been in a passing league for almost 2 decades and we've drafted 12 QB's since that time. 

[Villain The Foe]

10 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

The fact Minny is so SB ready may make the money a non factor honestly.

The bolded is the operative word. And the deck shuffles every year. If you're not the cheating Patriots more often than not if you made it deep into the playoffs the year before, odds are you're not going to be seen again. going that deep. There are not so many consistent teams making the playoffs. If you're not the Steelers or the Patriots then it's pretty much a crap shoot. 

Trust, the money is 1st priority BECAUSE the contracts aren't guaranteed. If they were then players would consider places much more seriously, like in the NBA. With the NFL he gets a bad injury in the first game and then it's not about him signing with Minny, it's about the guaranteed money. 

Best believe is agent is going to remind him of that. Now if its 2 or 3 million difference then sure, you go to Minny, but if Minny is offering 40 million guaranteed and the Jets are offering 55 million, best believe he'll be a Jet. 

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The bolded is the operative word. And the deck shuffles every year. If you're not the cheating Patriots more often than not if you made it deep into the playoffs the year before, odds are you're not going to be seen again. going that deep. There are not so many consistent teams making the playoffs. If you're not the Steelers or the Patriots then it's pretty much a crap shoot. 

Trust, the money is 1st priority BECAUSE the contracts aren't guaranteed. If they were then players would consider places much more seriously, like in the NBA. With the NFL he gets a bad injury in the first game and then it's not about him signing with Minny, it's about the guaranteed money. 

Best believe is agent is going to remind him of that. Now if its 2 or 3 million difference then sure, you go to Minny, but if Minny is offering 40 million guaranteed and the Jets are offering 55 million, best believe he'll be a Jet. 

Well hopeully so.

it seems as if a lot of bloggers, analysts and bigger names have put more emphasis on the fact the rebuilding teams bidding for his services probably won’t get him based on the fact he would like to step into a building he can win in. We’d have to make a lot of promises and completely turn into win now mode after just switching that mode off a year ago. I’m all for Cousins . . . I just see Denver or Minny as having the better chance and a lot of other people do too. Maccagnan would have to really just blow us away this offseason to really make this Cousins signing work. He’ll have to retool this offensive line perfectly and give the guy weapons. I mean go out and get Ryan Jensen and Norwell. Go out and get Saquon Barkley or Guice/Sony in the second. The best FA receiver available or one in the top few rounds of the draft. Tight End isn’t solved with just ASJ .. he’ll need to draft one of those too .. or sign Trey Burton who I believe would go to a team asking him to start.

Maccaggan will have to present us the best offeseason of his short lived GM career.

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Well hopeully so.

it seems as if a lot of bloggers, analysts and bigger names have put more emphasis on the fact the rebuilding teams bidding for his services probably won’t get him based on the fact he would like to step into a building he can win in. We’d have to make a lot of promises and completely turn into win now mode after just switching that mode off a year ago. I’m all for Cousins . . . I just see Denver or Minny as having the better chance and a lot of other people do too. Maccagnan would have to really just blow us away this offseason to really make this Cousins signing work. He’ll have to retool this offensive line perfectly and give the guy weapons. I mean go out and get Ryan Jensen and Norwell. Go out and get Saquon Barkley or Guice/Sony in the second. The best FA receiver available or one in the top few rounds of the draft. Tight End isn’t solved with just ASJ .. he’ll need to draft one of those too .. or sign Trey Burton who I believe would go to a team asking him to start.

Maccaggan will have to present us the best offeseason of his short lived GM career.

I see our point, but a lot of our positions aren't solved not because of the players at the position, but the play design and the QB throwing the ball. ASJ and Jordan Leggett won't be bad options if we have Kirk Cousins on the field. In other words, we can maximize the talent on the field simply by having Kirk. This is why securing Kirk will allow us to do a lot of things offensively. 

 

We get a stable QB and concentrate on building this Line in the draft as well as picking up a RB and a PR/KR and we'll be good to go. Sure, we may not have a pass rusher still and we may need to get a CB in free agency but we won't have to worry about going through another season asking the defense not to allow a team to score more than 10 points in order for the Jets to have a chance to win. 

 

In 2016 Washington's offense averaged almost 25 points per game and in 2017 it was almost 22 ppg. The Jets in those same years were 17 and 18 ppg. The Jets need to solidify the QB position. 

[Villain The Foe]

He gets it. Nevermind the title of the video. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

 

[Patriot Killa]

19 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

I always thought Eric Mangini wasn’t that bad if we are being honest. Especially thought he was a good talent evaluator.

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The Vikings have 49 million in salary cap

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings

The Jets have 73 million in Salary cap and thats before cutting Mo Wilk. 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets

 

Minn has the money for him, but the Jets have more money for him. 

 

completely irrelevant.  There is so many ways to manipulate the cap that cap space is not a factor in signing him. I disagree strongly with your post. Cousins is Glennon 2.0. He is going to flop hard. If we sign him we will look back with fondness at the ODonnell signing.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

completely irrelevant.  There is so many ways to manipulate the cap that cap space is not a factor in signing him. I disagree strongly with your post. Cousins is Glennon 2.0. He is going to flop hard. If we sign him we will look back with fondness at the ODonnell signing.

Glennon 2.0 LMFAOOOOO 

did Glennon put up 13,176 yards, 81 touchdowns and 36 interceptions in three years? Did Glennon start more than 10 games his entire career before signing with Chicago?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OH.

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

completely irrelevant.  There is so many ways to manipulate the cap that cap space is not a factor in signing him. I disagree strongly with your post. Cousins is Glennon 2.0. He is going to flop hard. If we sign him we will look back with fondness at the ODonnell signing.

Completely relevant. Being able to manipulate cap space isnt solely exclusive to the Vikings, and they're 20+ million behind a jets team that can also msnipulate cap space. The only irrelevant thing is the glennon comment.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

and Barkley is a Jets fan!

[NoBowles]

Another option would have been to fire the bozos who have no idea what they are doing (aka Mac and Bowles) and bring in people who do, draft and develop a QB and have 4 years of him on a rookie contract. Or we can Jet on and keep the bozos, and spend an ungodly amount of money hoping to go 9-7 if everything breaks right every year. 

JET ON!

[Philc1]

The real reason is Macc is horrific at drafting qbs

[Beerfish]

9 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

This isn't about desperation but about stability. The "elite" QB's in the league for the most part aren't even on elite contracts. However, you're not paying elite money for elite QB's you're paying premium money for premium players, and Kirk Cousins is a premium player whether you want to admit that or not. 

If the Jets go 8-8 it won't be because of the QB position. I'd rather spend the money to get a premium QB rather than trading a crap load of draft picks just to move up a spot or two just to draft a rookie QB that isn't guaranteed to pan out, nor has any actual professional history. 

This elite money is nonsense. This money is easily replaced, draft picks aren't. Get the QB and then build around him. 

We'll go 8-8 because cousins is not tom brady and we have zero talent on offense and we have a horrible coach.

You are saying do ghat ever it takes and pay him the money at the same time 'Assuming' we can get away from the deal if ti does not work out.

There is a price point and commitment point for every QB.  If the price and commitment is too dear because other teams are pushing up the price then you pass.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

The real reason is Macc is horrific at drafting qbs

Horrible at QBs, does not draft oline or pass rushers, suspect at WR's high picks for non value positrons look shady.

[bitonti]

Here's a guy that is terrible at drafting QB's. Let's give him 150 million dollars to spend at the free agent QB store. 

 

cause that always works out 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

We'll go 8-8 because cousins is not tom brady and we have zero talent on offense and we have a horrible coach.

 

So in other words, we'll go 8-8 or less with ANY QUARTERBACK since none of them are Tom Brady and we have zero talent on offense and we have a horrible coach. 

If that's the perspective then I'd rather go 8-8 with Kirk Cousins and not less of a record with a rookie QB. 

 

Bringing you back to reality though. I think Jerome Kearse is talented, if Robby doesn't lose his job he's talented, If Enunwa fully recovers he's pretty talented, ASJ is talented and we have some unknowns with potential like Leggett. For years folks have stated that Bilal Powell was talented...does he not count anymore? No, I'm not saying that we have the most talent, but it's not like this is the Chicago Bears offense either. Look what happened with Glennon and Trubisky in THAT mess of a Chicago offense. The only talent they had literally were their two RB's. The rest of that offense was absolute trash. 

Quote

You are saying do ghat ever it takes and pay him the money at the same time 'Assuming' we can get away from the deal if ti does not work out.

There is a price point and commitment point for every QB.  If the price and commitment is too dear because other teams are pushing up the price then you pass.

Yes, I'm saying do whatever it takes to get him and pay him the money. There's a price and commitment point for every QB and the Jets must reach it for this QB. 

#1. The price commitment is only too dear if it doesn't work out. 

#2. The price commitment the Eagles and Rams paid for their QB's doesn't matter today because their QB's are pretty damn good. 

#3. If Mike would have made that commitment to move up to the #1 spot a couple years back for Wentz, Fans would have been crying about the commitment and the price paid. If Jets fans would have Wentz today every last one of us wouldn't have cared about the commitment made years ago. And IMO what was given up was worse because it's draft picks and not money. We have an opportunity to simply pay money in a non-guaranteed contract, not give away massive draft picks for an unproven rookie. 

 

#4. The Redskins gave up all of those picks for RG3 and he flamed out because of injury. Fans care about that commitment because it failed. 

 

Moral of the story, this has nothing to do with commitment but failure. If Kirk Cousins simply remains Kirk Cousins the 5 years $150 million is worth it because the Jets have a competent QB that can actually put this team in position to win. If the Jets went 8-8 next year that's a 3 game improvement over last year....you forgot to mention that. Before this past season, Drew Brees and the Saints went 7-9 for 3 straight seasons. It's was OBVIOUSLY not Drew Brees fault but the fact that their defense would allow 50 points every time Drew and the offense put up 49 points. They went 11-5 THE MOMENT they added Kamara to the mix as a running/passing back and KR along with Marshawn Lattimore...a defensive beast that created turnovers for their defense. 

Is Drew Brees not worth a beast contract this offseason? 

 

Saying "8-8 with Kirk because we have no other talent on the team but Kirk" is actually a compliment if you just take a moment to think about the fact that a QB with ZERO talent around him in your eyes can actually go .500 in the NFL. 

 

Pay that man because of that fact alone. 

[FidelioJet]

The Jets have made it incredibly clear that they're willing to spend as much as it takes to get him. Of course, Cousin's agent knows this.  

Cousins will be a Jet and he will get an ungodly amount of money - as this organization is run by fools.

Yay - 5 years of 7 to 10 wins, one playoff apearance, no playoff wins.  but hey, at least we won't be a laughing stock.

[Villain The Foe]

24 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The Jets have made it incredibly clear that they're willing to spend as much as it takes to get him. Of course, Cousin's agent knows this.  

Cousins will be a Jet and he will get an ungodly amount of money - as this organization is run by fools.

When you have no QB there is no price not willing to be paid in order to stabilise the position. It's only a fools move if it doesn't work or when you give 15 million to Ryan Fitzpatrick and 6 Million to Josh McCown. 

Quote

Yay - 5 years of 7 to 10 wins, one playoff apearance, no playoff wins.  but hey, at least we won't be a laughing stock.

That would be better than our last 5 years since we haven't had a playoff appearance in 7 years and within the last 5 seasons we have a 4 win season, to pair of 5 win seasons, an 8 win season and a 10 win season where we missed the playoffs playing the easiest schedule in franchise history. 

You mean to tell me that this isn't a laughing stock now? Oh wait, it only becomes a laughing stock when you sign Kirk Cousins to a mega deal, not when you allow Ryan Fitzpatrick to bend you over a barrel for an entire offseason or watch Decker, Marshall and Mangold act like children and divide the locker room over a journeyman QB?

 

Please. We can give Cousins a mega deal and watch as it goes down in blood-orange flames and that wouldn't be as bad as watching Geno get knocked out, Fitz becoming the "2nd coming of the magic beard" only to turn into Satan and watching the front office actually believe that drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round was a good idea. 

 

Pay Kirk the money. 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

When you have no QB there is no price not willing to be paid in order to stabilise the position. It's only a fools move if it doesn't work or when you give 15 million to Ryan Fitzpatrick and 6 Million to Josh McCown. 

That would be better than our last 5 years since we haven't had a playoff appearance in 7 years and within the last 5 seasons we have a 4 win season, to pair of 5 win seasons, an 8 win season and a 10 win season where we missed the playoffs playing the easiest schedule in franchise history. 

You mean to tell me that this isn't a laughing stock now? Oh wait, it only becomes a laughing stock when you sign Kirk Cousins to a mega deal, not when you allow Ryan Fitzpatrick to bend you over a barrel for an entire offseason or watch Decker, Marshall and Mangold act like children and divide the locker room over a journeyman QB?

 

Please. 

This is faulty, you have to have a difference maker at QB and not get sucked into the non difference makers.

Hey I think cousins is okay and for sure a big upgrade and would not be too mad if we got him as long as the price is reasonable.

If you want to look at what we could get look at Joe Flacco.  The team won the suerpbowl and then gave him the farm and had to trim a lot of useful players, they have never recovered and Flacco though not totally awful does not help them win.

[Villain The Foe]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This is faulty, you have to have a difference maker at QB and not get sucked into the non difference makers.

Hey I think cousins is okay and for sure a big upgrade and would not be too mad if we got him as long as the price is reasonable.

If you want to look at what we could get look at Joe Flacco.  The team won the suerpbowl and then gave him the farm and had to trim a lot of useful players, they have never recovered and Flacco though not totally awful does not help them win.

The comparison is a Joke. 

In the 3 seasons as a Starter Cousins has thrown for 4,000 or more and 25 TD's or more. Flacco has only thrown over 4,000 once in his 10 year career and has thrown for 25 or more TD's twice in 10 years. Kirk is 3 for 3 in both departments. Flacco has had some of the best defences in the league, Kirk has NOT had that. Flacco has had Difference makers at both the running back position as well as the WR position. Kirk Cousins had Garcón and Jackson, both past their primes and he never had an explosive rushing attack. 

 

They're not even the same QB accuracy wise. Kirk averages over 65% for his career on completions. In 10 years Flacco never even completed 65% of his passes for 1 season let alone his career average. 

 

Cousins had a QBR of over 100 in a season and averages over 93 for his career. Flacco has never had a QBR of 100 or more in a season and has only made it over 90 twice in 10 years and his career QBR is an 84, which is 9 points lower than Kirk. 

 

You're just talking now.