Lebron is decent

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Well I suppose I’ll see my way out of the conversation then...

?Don't go.

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, CTM said:

How many are above the age of 40 and think LeBron is better?

To me Jordan is the GOAT until someone can make a statistical case that they are better, but I grew up watching Jordan dominate so nostalgia makes that my default 

I hate LeBron with a passion.  One of the greatest to ever play but I just dont respect his basketball personality.  The bitching and moaning, the super teams, the half GM, the decision, the running coaches out of town, the shade he throws to his competitors even in defeat, rubbing victories in competitors faces, quitting on the court, no effort on D, isolating his teammates, etc.  There is just so much I cant stand about his attitude around the game which is crazy because he's literally the perfect role mode athlete off the court.

That said, this debate is ridiculous and stupid.  LeBron isnt Michael and Michael isnt LeBron.  It's like debating who's better Brady of LT or Rice.  You really cant.  Different players, different eras, impact the game in different ways.  LeBron dominates the game in ways that Jordan couldnt.  Jordan dominated the game in ways that LeBron cant.  Some of it is skill, some of it is purely physical. Lebron probably carries 50+ lbs on him.  Just that alone makes them incomparable IMO.  

1 guy can literally just barrel through the lane.  The other guy perfected by far the most difficult shot to make in all of basketball (the fade away) because he couldnt just run through the lane.  Also, back then, I dont think LeBron gets away with what he does now because the NBA is filled with pussies these days and literally just watch him get to the paint.  

And the biggest factor that nobody ever brings up? Hand checking.  Outlawed in the NBA before LeBron's time.  Does anyone actually have any idea how much more challenging defense is without being able to hand check?  Now imagine not being able to do that to a 6'9 250 lb man who moves like a point guard.  Somehow this small detail is the lost in the debate and it's probably the most important piece to the puzzle.  It doesnt give you a definitive answer either way but it makes LeBron impossible to guard and it makes what Jordan was doing that much more impressive.

My answer?  Jordan was the greatest of his time and LeBron is the greatest of his time, just like Kareem and Wilt were the greatest of their time.  Pretty simple. 

 

[JustInFudge]

48 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

I also hate North Carolina. 

I also hate the Heat and the Cavs because I am a Knicks fan. 

Michael Jordan was a nice player. Lebron is better. 

Your troll is showing. 

[JustInFudge]

34 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

So nothing I say matters?

You are talking about events in time and acting like you were there watching it.

 

[Klecko73isGod]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Your troll is showing. 

Ok, Michael was a bit better than average.... happy now?

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Ok, Michael was a bit better than average.... happy now?

Tell me about John Starks.

[Klecko73isGod]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Tell me about John Starks.

I hate John Starks too. You know that. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

wat

How ******* good do you guys think Tonto was?  He was a great defender.  Big deal  So was Gary Payton.  You honestly think he was a top 20 all-time player?  GTFO.  Ewing, Olajuwon, Moses, Mailman, DR J.  Human Highlight film, Reggie Miller, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Wilt, the Logo, Iverson, Lebron, Barkley, Jabbar, Shaq, Kobe, the Admiral, Duncan, Parker, Kidd, Russell, the Big O.  How many is that? How many can you even hope to argue about?  That is without even getting to the deep cuts like Gervin, MacAdoo and Alex English.  I didn't even go too far into the dark ages for most of them. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

You are talking about events in time and acting like you were there watching it.

 

I have watched it is the only point that matters. Stop feeling high and mighty because you have more wrinkles than me. It’s lame.

[#27TheDominator]

46 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

I hate John Starks too. You know that. 

Who was your guy?  Mark Price or Craig Ehlo? 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I have watched it is the only point that matters. Stop feeling high and mighty because you have more wrinkles than me. It’s lame.

No you didnt. 

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

No you didnt. 

I have, JiF. I have watched playoffs from the 80’s and 90’s multiple times, JiF.

 

It’s 2018, JiF.

You don’t have to be Marty McFly with a DeLorean to make such a thing possible.

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I have, JiF. I have watched playoffs from the 80’s and 90’s multiple times, JiF.

 

It’s 2018, JiF.

You don’t have to be Marty McFly with a DeLorean to make such a thing possible.

[CTM]

3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Correction..22 years old.

 

and that’s why I put “I have also watched a ton of basketball from beyond my time.”

Kinda silly for you to have a strong opinion here. I admit I don't watch a lot of basketball these days which is why I'm careful to not make definitive statements about Lebron.

[CTM]

2 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

The hand check was legal until the 93 postseason when it looked like the Knicks might finally have the team to get it done and David Stern issued the edict to enforce the hand check at the start of the playoffs. 

The enforcement of the hand check rule probably won Jordan 4 titles. 

Can you imagine what Bird would have scored nightly without hand checking?

Wasn't that after Jordan won the scoring title for 7 years in a row?

[CTM]

I don't see how Pippen is top 20 all time either, that's kind of absurd

[Patriot Killa]

13 minutes ago, CTM said:

Kinda silly for you to have a strong opinion here. I admit I don't watch a lot of basketball these days which is why I'm careful to not make definitive statements about Lebron.

I don’t understand why. I have seen just about everything you guys have seen...just from a streaming app.??‍♂️

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

How ******* good do you guys think Tonto was?  He was a great defender.  Big deal  So was Gary Payton.  You honestly think he was a top 20 all-time player?  GTFO.  Ewing, Olajuwon, Moses, Mailman, DR J.  Human Highlight film, Reggie Miller, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Wilt, the Logo, Iverson, Lebron, Barkley, Jabbar, Shaq, Kobe, the Admiral, Duncan, Parker, Kidd, Russell, the Big O.  How many is that? How many can you even hope to argue about?  That is without even getting to the deep cuts like Gervin, MacAdoo and Alex English.  I didn't even go too far into the dark ages for most of them. 

Relax psycho, I thought you meant top 20 when he played, not all-time.

[#27TheDominator]

34 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Relax psycho, I thought you meant top 20 when he played, not all-time.

I was responding to a claim of all-time, and I did say "lucky to be top 20 when he played."  That is a bit of hyperbole, but I am sure there are 20 no doubt better players that played at some point during his career. Of course, some were rookies (Lebron) while others we could argue were well past their prime - Moses, Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore. 

[RutgersJetFan]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I was responding to a claim of all-time, and I did say "lucky to be top 20 when he played."  That is a bit of hyperbole, but I am sure there are 20 no doubt better players that played at some point during his career. Of course, some were rookies (Lebron) while others we could argue were well past their prime - Moses, Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore. 

That's simply 100% wrong. We have a legit sample size of Pippen in his prime without Jordan and he was unbelievable. Certainly a top 10 player when he played and maybe even top 5.

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Not for nothing but Jordan didn't win sh*t until Magic and Larry aged out. 

And the Bad Boys’ pistons window closed

[greenwichjetfan]

7 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I have, JiF. I have watched playoffs from the 80’s and 90’s multiple times, JiF.

 

It’s 2018, JiF.

You don’t have to be Marty McFly with a DeLorean to make such a thing possible.

How ‘bout you make like a tree, and get outta here

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

That's simply 100% wrong. We have a legit sample size of Pippen in his prime without Jordan and he was unbelievable. Certainly a top 10 player when he played and maybe even top 5.

Pippen was the best player in the nba from 1994-1997 even better than Jordan.  He was Lebron before Lebron a great defender and was a fantastic point forward facilitator on offense.  Oh and there was that Dennis Rodman guy who was a rebounding machine and played excellent defense against everyone even Shaq

 

Sorry i know it’s unfair that I actually watched the nba back then and watched Lebron from 2003-now and can actually compare Jordan and Lebron and their teams

 

 

Lebron never played on a team that is anywhere close to those 90’s bulls teams, sorry

 

The fact that this is even a debate is silly. Just shows who either is a millennial or stopped watching basketball in 2001 outside of the occasional Finals game

 

[Patriot Killa]

13 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Pippen was the best player in the nba from 1994-1997 even better than Jordan.  He was Lebron before Lebron a great defender and was a fantastic point forward facilitator on offense.  Oh and there was that Dennis Rodman guy who was a rebounding machine and played excellent defense against everyone even Shaq

 

Sorry i know it’s unfair that I actually watched the nba back then and watched Lebron from 2003-now and can actually compare Jordan and Lebron and their teams

 

 

Lebron never played on a team that is anywhere close to those 90’s bulls teams, sorry

 

The fact that this is even a debate is silly. Just shows who either is a millennial or stopped watching basketball in 2001 outside of the occasional Finals game

 

But I agree with you and i’m a millennial.?

[#27TheDominator]

14 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

That's simply 100% wrong. We have a legit sample size of Pippen in his prime without Jordan and he was unbelievable. Certainly a top 10 player when he played and maybe even top 5.

I don't really disagree too strongly with this, but IMO it is basically the Curtis Martin argument.  Is top 5-10 over a long career as good as best for a year or two and falling off a cliff?  I mean, for the team obviously Pippen's career is better, but I am talking about when we are comparing players.  I do not in any way endorse him being the best player in the NBA for 3 years straight.  

I am also not sure you are following my point.  I am not saying Pippen was ever outside the top 20, but that during his career 20 guys played that I consider better.  I believe that.  I could be wrong, but if I am, it is not by much. 

[nyjunc]

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 9:52 AM, CTM said:

How many are above the age of 40 and think LeBron is better?

To me Jordan is the GOAT until someone can make a statistical case that they are better, but I grew up watching Jordan dominate so nostalgia makes that my default 

I HATED Michael when he played but I appreciate greatness.  I watched Michael and I have watched Lebron.  Both are obviously all time greats but Michael dominated his era more than LeBron his. 

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 10:08 AM, Matt39 said:

Always gets glossed over. Jordan played like ass during this series. Everyone has selective memories. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-bulls-vs-magic.html

 

You do know he missed almost 2 full seasons, right? he played his first game in March of 1995 after sitting out all of the 93-94 season and most of the 94-95 season and the Magic series was in May of 1995.

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:17 PM, Philc1 said:

Jordan’s teams had: Pippen (top 20 player of all time),Rodman (incredible defender and rebounder, if he’s not HOF he should be, Kukoc (one of the greatest European players ever, excellent defender and would be even better today), Ron Harper (most underrated player on those teams, lock down pg defender) and Horace Grant who was a very good PF

 

Lebron in comparison has played with only one HOFer Wade

 

And if you want to talk competition Jordan never sniffed the NBA Finals until both those 80’s Celtics and Pistons teams got old

 

 

The Knicks with good, not great talent were Jordan’s best competition during his title run which he had a literal forcefield surrounding him thanks to the referees

 

Pippen is not a top 20 player of all time, just stop it.  he was a great complimentary player.  he wasn't a star player that could be the focal point of a team.  Wade was a top 3 player in the NBA WITH James.

he had Rodman for 3 seasons AFTER he had won 3 championships and Rodman is in the Hall of Fame thanks to those Bulls years where Jordan led them to 3 more titles. Rodman also played w/ Shaq and Robinson around that time- how many titles did he win w/ those guys?  he won as a bench player w/ Detroit.

Kukoc may have been one of the greatest European stars but he was an average NBA player. he never even made an all star game, Kevin Love has made 5 and was 2nd team all NBA multiple times.

Ron Harper never made a single all star game, never made any all NBA team.

Horace Grant was a solid player, made 1 career all star game and that was the year Jordan wasn't playing.

Rodman won 2 DPOY awards, both came as a member of the Pistons in the early 90s. he made all NBA 3rd team twice, once w/ Jordan. he never made an all star game.

Pippen is the ONLY guy that was a top player in the league and Wade was a better player than Pippen. Pippen was on an all NBA team 7x.

 

Wade won a title w/o Lebron, yeah he had Shaq but Wade was the go to guy on that team and the reason they won the Finals that year where he was named Finals MVP.  any players Jordan ever played w/ named Finals MVP? Wade was all NBA 8x(compared to 7 for Pippen), made 12 AS games compared to 7 for Pippen.

Love 5x all star, 2 time all NBA

Irving 5x AS, 1x all NBA and let's not forget hit the big shot to win the title for the Cavs 2 years ago.

Bosh an 11 time all star

 

Lebron has played w/ more talent, Jordan elevated more talent.

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:20 PM, Philc1 said:

Take Lebron off the cavaliers they maybe win 20 games

 

Take Jordan off the bulls they win 55 games and almost go to an nba final

 

Pippen was old by the time the blazers traded for him 

 

What HOF is Bosh supposedly getting into?

 

 Your argument is Jordan nostalgia bs

if you took LeBron off last year Cavs and brought back the rest of the team they'd be a playoff team.  when he left the first time the team was stripped, the team has been stripped now so yeah they;d suck.  Miami was back to being a playoff team right away after he left.

when Chicago stripped it down after Michael left in 1998 they were Cleveland like too.

the 1995 Bulls didn't almost go to the Finals, they almost made the CONFERENCE FINALS.

Pippen was 33 when he left Chicago, 34 when he got to Portland and still an effective player and was supposed to provide leadership to a very talented team.  his leadership allowed them to blow a ridiculous lead in the 4th qtr of game 7 vs. the Lakers.  at 33 and 34 Wade was an all star and helping Miami get to the Finals winning one.

Bosh is getting into the Hall.  The basketball Hall is different than other ones, it's the easiest one to make.  he's an 11 time all star, he won 2 titles, he won a gold medal, he was part of the forming of the first super team.

 

 

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 1:00 PM, Patriot Killa said:

And nobody wants to bring up the fact that Jordan got embarrassed in the first and second round on multiple occasions. Penny and the Magic stomped him out.

I’m tired of this “super team” excuse. So Jordan didn’t have one of the best defenders to ever live in Pippin and one of the best rebounders to ever live in Rodman? C’mon now......

Lol...but I guess George Hill, JR Smith, Kyle Korver and K Love overrated ass are just the new All-NBA line up?

Yeah! Lets pretend that LeBron didn’t have to use every fiber in his body to stave off a Pacers and Celtics elimination all by himself. The Cavs are a 20 win team in the weakest conference in the NBA without LeBron.

Yeah, he took a team full of nobodies and kept Chicago competitive against one of the greatest teams of all time in the 86 Celtics.  what an embarrassment!

Jordan got swept twice in his career, both against the legendary Celtic teams and both in best of 5 series. Lebron got swept in the Finals, Jordan never even got to a game 7.  just this postseason alone James went to 7 games in the first rd.  Jordan's teams never went the distance in rd 1 when he had a top team.

Jordan also had to deal w/ 2 all time great teams- the Celtics and the Pistons.  he ended the Pistons potential dynasty in 1991, when did Lebron ever do something like that?  the east was a complete joke and there were 2 good teams(also the Pistons and Celtics) in LeBron's era but Det was good before Lebron started making POs and Boston had a good 3 year run where Lebron couldn't beat them.

when he got "stomped out" by Penny and the magic you know he was back less than 2 months after almost 2 years off, right?  what happened the next year when they met in the playoffs? 

Did Jordan talk w/ Pippen about signing as a FA w/ another team that had a top 2 player in the league and leaving Chicago?  did Michael not win 3 titles w/o Rodman?

Kevin Love is better than any player Jordan ever played w/ besides Pippen.  Kyrie irving is as good as any player he's ever played w/, Wade is better than any player Jordan ever played w/.  Bosh is as good as any player besides Pippen.

 

[nyjunc]

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 6:16 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

That's simply 100% wrong. We have a legit sample size of Pippen in his prime without Jordan and he was unbelievable. Certainly a top 10 player when he played and maybe even top 5.

yep, just incredible.

 

basically 2 years w/o Jordan in 94 and 95 where he led Chi as far as east semifinals. he was a top 10 player for a few years in the league though, he is not a top 20 all time player.

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:11 PM, Philc1 said:

Pippen was the best player in the nba from 1994-1997 even better than Jordan.  He was Lebron before Lebron a great defender and was a fantastic point forward facilitator on offense.  Oh and there was that Dennis Rodman guy who was a rebounding machine and played excellent defense against everyone even Shaq

 

Sorry i know it’s unfair that I actually watched the nba back then and watched Lebron from 2003-now and can actually compare Jordan and Lebron and their teams

 

 

Lebron never played on a team that is anywhere close to those 90’s bulls teams, sorry

 

The fact that this is even a debate is silly. Just shows who either is a millennial or stopped watching basketball in 2001 outside of the occasional Finals game

 

the best player in the NBA? shouldn;'t the best player in the NBA win an MVP award?  if you think Pippen was the league's best player then clearly you didn't watch the NBA back then.

The Heat teams he won titles with had MORE talent, the Cavs teams w/ Irving and Love had as much talent and he had to form those teams on his own each time.  Jordan just took who the team brought in and won w/ them.

it isn't a debate to anyone who knows anything about basketball but b/c Lebron is playing NOW people forget about the past.   There is no comparison btw the 2, it's like Brady vs. manning.  all time greats but Jordan and Brady are head and shoulders better than Manning and James.

again, Michael Jordan would never have left Chicago to forma  superteam to win.  he was too much of a competitor to want a title handed to him like Lebron.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

14 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Michael Jordan would never have left Chicago to forma  superteam to win.

'Michael Jordan would never have __________ to win' cannot be made into a true statement. Formed a superteam, ****ed a goat, blown the guy who offed his dad, it doesn't matter how you fill in the blank. It was kind of his thing. And everybody acknowledges it except when it's time to face reality. Michael Jordan would have done anything to win EXCEPT WHAT LEBRON DID. Yeah, okay. Grow up.

[Patriot Killa]

14 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I HATED Michael when he played but I appreciate greatness.  I watched Michael and I have watched Lebron.  Both are obviously all time greats but Michael dominated his era more than LeBron his. 

You do know he missed almost 2 full seasons, right? he played his first game in March of 1995 after sitting out all of the 93-94 season and most of the 94-95 season and the Magic series was in May of 1995.

Pippen is not a top 20 player of all time, just stop it.  he was a great complimentary player.  he wasn't a star player that could be the focal point of a team.  Wade was a top 3 player in the NBA WITH James.

he had Rodman for 3 seasons AFTER he had won 3 championships and Rodman is in the Hall of Fame thanks to those Bulls years where Jordan led them to 3 more titles. Rodman also played w/ Shaq and Robinson around that time- how many titles did he win w/ those guys?  he won as a bench player w/ Detroit.

Kukoc may have been one of the greatest European stars but he was an average NBA player. he never even made an all star game, Kevin Love has made 5 and was 2nd team all NBA multiple times.

Ron Harper never made a single all star game, never made any all NBA team.

Horace Grant was a solid player, made 1 career all star game and that was the year Jordan wasn't playing.

Rodman won 2 DPOY awards, both came as a member of the Pistons in the early 90s. he made all NBA 3rd team twice, once w/ Jordan. he never made an all star game.

Pippen is the ONLY guy that was a top player in the league and Wade was a better player than Pippen. Pippen was on an all NBA team 7x.

 

Wade won a title w/o Lebron, yeah he had Shaq but Wade was the go to guy on that team and the reason they won the Finals that year where he was named Finals MVP.  any players Jordan ever played w/ named Finals MVP? Wade was all NBA 8x(compared to 7 for Pippen), made 12 AS games compared to 7 for Pippen.

Love 5x all star, 2 time all NBA

Irving 5x AS, 1x all NBA and let's not forget hit the big shot to win the title for the Cavs 2 years ago.

Bosh an 11 time all star

 

Lebron has played w/ more talent, Jordan elevated more talent.

if you took LeBron off last year Cavs and brought back the rest of the team they'd be a playoff team.  when he left the first time the team was stripped, the team has been stripped now so yeah they;d suck.  Miami was back to being a playoff team right away after he left.

when Chicago stripped it down after Michael left in 1998 they were Cleveland like too.

the 1995 Bulls didn't almost go to the Finals, they almost made the CONFERENCE FINALS.

Pippen was 33 when he left Chicago, 34 when he got to Portland and still an effective player and was supposed to provide leadership to a very talented team.  his leadership allowed them to blow a ridiculous lead in the 4th qtr of game 7 vs. the Lakers.  at 33 and 34 Wade was an all star and helping Miami get to the Finals winning one.

Bosh is getting into the Hall.  The basketball Hall is different than other ones, it's the easiest one to make.  he's an 11 time all star, he won 2 titles, he won a gold medal, he was part of the forming of the first super team.

 

 

Yeah, he took a team full of nobodies and kept Chicago competitive against one of the greatest teams of all time in the 86 Celtics.  what an embarrassment!

Jordan got swept twice in his career, both against the legendary Celtic teams and both in best of 5 series. Lebron got swept in the Finals, Jordan never even got to a game 7.  just this postseason alone James went to 7 games in the first rd.  Jordan's teams never went the distance in rd 1 when he had a top team.

Jordan also had to deal w/ 2 all time great teams- the Celtics and the Pistons.  he ended the Pistons potential dynasty in 1991, when did Lebron ever do something like that?  the east was a complete joke and there were 2 good teams(also the Pistons and Celtics) in LeBron's era but Det was good before Lebron started making POs and Boston had a good 3 year run where Lebron couldn't beat them.

when he got "stomped out" by Penny and the magic you know he was back less than 2 months after almost 2 years off, right?  what happened the next year when they met in the playoffs? 

Did Jordan talk w/ Pippen about signing as a FA w/ another team that had a top 2 player in the league and leaving Chicago?  did Michael not win 3 titles w/o Rodman?

Kevin Love is better than any player Jordan ever played w/ besides Pippen.  Kyrie irving is as good as any player he's ever played w/, Wade is better than any player Jordan ever played w/.  Bosh is as good as any player besides Pippen.

 

Love is NOT better than any player Jordan played with you are absolutely nuts, My Guy. NUTS.

We really gonna act like a washed up Wade who had little to no impact from the bench is better than anything Jordan had?

Kyrie, ok. But let’s just not act like he can really make an impact when the ball is not in his hands. He’s a shooter and honestly an elite iso scorer. Bosh? Better than Rodman? 

NO.

[PS17]

Golden State is the most unlikeable team in pro sports.  

 

And LeBron would have better luck with an AAU team than this current cast of bozos. 

[T0mShane]

1. Draymond Green is Pete Myers, and the day some dumbass awful team like the Knicks gives him a bad contract, it’ll be fun to watch him lose 50 games every year. 

2. If Lebron actually wanted to keep JR Smith on his team, he deserves every bit of this loss. 

3. The officiating in the last five minutes and OT was putrid and that charge/block reversal should result in someone going to federal prison. 

[Philc1]

If it wasn’t for JR Smith being a horrible waste of time Lebron beats the Warriors tonight in their building

 

Nyjunc you can continue with the Be Like Mike nostalgia but Lebron is the GOAT

[Philc1]

46 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

1. Draymond Green is Pete Myers, and the day some dumbass awful team like the Knicks gives him a bad contract, it’ll be fun to watch him lose 50 games every year. 

2. If Lebron actually wanted to keep JR Smith on his team, he deserves every bit of this loss. 

3. The officiating in the last five minutes and OT was putrid and that charge/block reversal should result in someone going to federal prison. 

JR Smith OMG

[Philc1]

Swiss cheese D

 

[Philc1]

And then just cheese