Can we talk receivers?

[HawkeyeJet]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

32/32 teams will take Sammy Watkins over our any/all of our WRs. He's has #1 pedigree and potential. 

I don't know what the heck you're talking about tbh. This feels like a Jordan Peterson interview. Watkins has the talent and ability to be a #WR1. there's nothing to debate there. He was drafted high for that reason. He was paid for that reason. It's not an aberration. It's not confusing. He belongs on a #1WR list.

Someone's wrong on how valuable Watkins is... Is it you and JeffDaniels24, or is it the entire NFL? 

I'm not getting into the whole Watkins vs Whoever argument because these types of internet fights are stupid and no one is going to change their viewpoint.

That said, Sammy Watkins most certainly does not have a "#1 Receiver Pedigree".  By definition, a pedigree is a traceable record.  Watkins most certainly does not have an NFL track record of being a #1 WR.  Potential, sure.  He does have that potential.  That's what people are paying for.  Not his track record.

 

[Bruce Harper]

On 5/16/2018 at 1:50 PM, Pointdexter said:

I think enunwa is a bit overrated by Jets nation because he was the only decent wr 2 yrs ago. And I can't expect a heck of a lot after the injury he went through. Good player but far from great.

Richie Anderson is a ticking time bomb, and more of a one-trick pony than he is a complete receiver. Ok, but not great.

Neither Hansen or Stewart showed much in their rookie seasons.

I like Kearse as a role player.

Bottom line is not much with this group. Definitely nothing to be excited about. Now that we've gone all in on Darnold, I would think the next step is making a major commitment to upgrade this group next off-season. 

OL much higher priority.

[MDL_JET]

41 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I thought we covered the NE outlier. Basing arguments and strategies off that is not sane. 

And i missed the part where you called our WR corps elite. Suddenly this conversation feels like it needs to go in a different direction.... Are you ok?

What’s the argument here? That we need a top tier #1 guy? Because you don’t. It’s nice obviously but you just need a lot of guys who do different things really well. 

And that’s what the Jets have IF they all stay healthy and out of trouble. Moving forward they need to find more reliable guys. 

[#27TheDominator]

41 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

In theory? The Patriots have been disproving this idea year after year. Bottom line, as someone else here pointed out, the QB will be a major factor in whether our receivers produce as I'm arguing or don't. All I'm saying is that it's well within the realm of possibility that we will have four receivers who can average at least 750 yards receiving. Of course that depends on Enunwa being fully healthy as well as Pryor. Call me an optimist... I think these guys can be a solid and productive group.

I have said it three times already, but all I am saying is that it is not possible.  They all required close to 100 targets to get 750.  That is 400 targets.  The Jets threw the ball 510 times in 2017.  100 to TEs and 100 to RBs.  That leaves 300 targets to go around and even if your boys have career years they are going to be lucky to see 2,250 out of the 300 targets.  They are not an efficient bunch.  

Going by their career years:

Anderson 8.25 yards per target will take 91 targets to hit 750

Kearse 7.9 will take 94

Enunwa 8.1 will take 93

Pryor 7.2 will take 104

That is 382 targets.  When you consider 100 for RB + 100 for TE, that is 582 targets without considering any for Hansen, Stewart, Peake, Smith, Whitehead, or whatever guy they decide to keep. Unless Bates goes all Chip Kelly it isn't happening.  

They can be solid and productive, but I don't see any way that 4 are getting 750

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

OL much higher priority.

WRs under contract for 2019 are Peake, Hansen, and Stewart.  OL under contract are Winters, Long, Beachum, Shell, and Garcia.  WR will be a pretty big priority if they don't redo some deals now.

[jetstream23]

We're got a lot of guys in the mix to be #2 and #3 wide receivers.  Unfortunately, no #1.   And no, Enunwa can't be a #1 and Robby Anderson isn't one either.

[HawkeyeJet]

I will say this, and I'm sure it won't be a popular opinion, but oh well.  

I think WR is by far the most overvalued(in terms of importance/correlation to team success) position by football fans.  

[Patriot Killa]

On 5/16/2018 at 12:50 PM, Pointdexter said:

 

I think enunwa is a bit overrated by Jets nation because he was the only decent wr 2 yrs ago

 

You mean when he played in the slot with Eric Decker and Brandon Marshall?

oh 

 

ya’...those guys were bums. Enunwa was the only decent Wide Receiver for sure.

[Patriot Killa]

48 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

We're got a lot of guys in the mix to be #2 and #3 wide receivers.  Unfortunately, no #1.   And no, Enunwa can't be a #1 and Robby Anderson isn't one either.

Robby was a fine #1 option last year. 

 

Why cant he be this year?

[Scoop24]

54 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

We're got a lot of guys in the mix to be #2 and #3 wide receivers.  Unfortunately, no #1.   And no, Enunwa can't be a #1 and Robby Anderson isn't one either.

He sure as hell abused #1 corners on regular last year . 

[oc_jet]

Our SOJF are selling our WR core short. In the thread about Pryor in late March.  I posted the following four numbered assessments below. First, the Jets had two top 30 WRs in 2017. Stop stating that Anderson and Kearse are JAGs. It aint true. They both ran a large amount of the route tree and are not one trick ponies. Contrary to popular belief, we dont need a true WR1 yet. Secondly, for the first time in a long while, the Jets have a solid and diverse WR core, who have all demonstrated success on the field. They may not be stars, but they are effective. The Jets will become a mismatch nightmare for teams in 2018. Third, all of my former assessments didnt include Enunwa, who would be yet another weapon that defenses would have to account for. With 4-5 capable WRs on the field at any given time, someone should always be open. Third, realize that Pryor is a freak. He is huge, very fast and will demand CB1 coverage, which leaves CB2 on Anderson. Otherwise, having a CB2 on Pryor will be a mismatch, leaving CB3 on Kearse or Enunwa. Fourth, the wild cards are the RBs, the TEs and D Flowers. If any of these guys show any real talent and the ability to consistently catch passes, they will  create added space for all the other parts of the offense. 

I dont know about you, but I am excited to see what these guys can do. Plus, we now have the "Savior" in Darnold. His skill set, talent and anticipation will make everyone around him better performers. I think his mere presence on the team will elevate the offense and the QB room. They all know he is anointed, so everyone will have to step up their game, else he will be starting soon...

 1. 

This is very good analysis of Pryor's skill set is and exactly how he can help the JETS and himself in 2018. If he remains healthy and plays like he did in his best Browns year, the JETS will be a dangerous team. Someone will always be open.

 

2.

Tom Capone1 day ago

From what I've read, Pryor was struggling to read defenses in Washington and when running an option route him and Kirk weren't on the same page, he should have more success here cause we don't have our receivers do that.

3.

 If you look at the JETS receiving last year, both Kearse and Anderson were top 30 WR in 2017 and got almost 1,000 yards. I think we all are selling these guys talents short. With the addition of Pryor, that rounds out the WR corps. With Kearse as the slot WR, Anderson as wide out (X) and Pryor as flanker (Z), you now have three different skill sets operating each of the zones on the field. Further all of these guys have experience at the other WR positions, making mismatches more likely. This a much more balanced WR corp than since the days of Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes. Plus none of these guys are slow, with clocked 40 times of 4.34 RA, 4.38 TP and 4.43 for JK. Couple that with the 6'5" , 230 lb "Megatron-like" size of Pryor, portends that the Jets should be a harder team to defend. 

Jermaine Kearse	65	810	12.5	51	5
Robby Anderson	63	941	14.9	69	7
Austin Seferian-Jenkins	50	357	7.1	28	3
Matt Forte	37	293	7.9	34	1
Bilal Powell	23	170	7.4	31	0
Jeremy Kerley	22	217	9.9	31	1
Elijah McGuire	17	177	10.4	38	1
Chad Hansen	9	94	10.4	24	0
Eric Tomlinson	8	121	15.1	34	1
Neal Sterling	6	82	13.7	35	0

 

If you study the route tree of each of these WRs, you can see exactly where they have been most effective

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/robby-anderson/AND460305

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/terrelle-pryor/PRY474541

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/jermaine-kearse/KEA511674/season

Our 3rd receiver last year was a statue... ASJ, who only averaged 7 yards per catch. If Tomlinson and/or Sterling or Leggett or whoever the Jets eventually pick up are able to attain reasonably similar numbers the Jets will improve.

4.

McCown threw 398 times in 13 games for 2926 yards.  Petty threw another 112 times for a Jets season total of 510 attempts. Anderson had 114 targets whilst Kearse had 102. Pryor in his best year with Cleveland had 140 attempts out of 460 attempts, catching 77 or 55%. Similarly, Anderson caught 55% and Kearse caught 63% of their respective targets. The RB crew had roughly 20% of Jets targets or 105. So, assuming the Jets throw 500 times in 2018. And assume that no one receiver dominates the way Pryor did with the Browns, it would be reasonable to expect that 100 targets each or 6.5 per game is very possible. If history repeats and they all maintained their historical catching and yards per catch percentages of 13.1, 14.9 and 12.5 respectively, we could project the following from each:

Pryor             100   55  720

Anderson       100  55  820

Kearse           100  63  787

The wild cards in this scenario are 1. Will Anderson be suspended? 2. How will Pryor be used in the red zone? If he picks up where Brandon Marshall left off , that will open up even more the spacing that the Jets offense will be allowed by defenses. If Pryor can achieve these numbers with another 5-7 touchdowns, I will be very happy.

FYI, for all the NY "Browns" haters, Crowell is no slouch in the receiving department either, having caught 28 of 42 in 2017 and 40 of 53 in 2016. these are both very under-rated pickups, which should pay decent dividends in 2018.

 

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'm not getting into the whole Watkins vs Whoever argument because these types of internet fights are stupid and no one is going to change their viewpoint.

That said, Sammy Watkins most certainly does not have a "#1 Receiver Pedigree".  By definition, a pedigree is a traceable record.  Watkins most certainly does not have an NFL track record of being a #1 WR.  Potential, sure.  He does have that potential.  That's what people are paying for.  Not his track record.

 

fair enough, i was referring to draft pedigree - but nonetheless. Its not really about any of that. It's about talent/potential. If we're going to draw up a list of WRs who could fill those shoes -- there's still optimism/support that Watkins can be that guy. No one thinks that about Enunwa - by contrast. 

[j4jets]

11 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

In theory? The Patriots have been disproving this idea year after year. Bottom line, as someone else here pointed out, the QB will be a major factor in whether our receivers produce as I'm arguing or don't. All I'm saying is that it's well within the realm of possibility that we will have four receivers who can average at least 750 yards receiving. Of course that depends on Enunwa being fully healthy as well as Pryor. Call me an optimist... I think these guys can be a solid and productive group.

Are you really taking the best QB off all time as your base? As someone pointed out, possibly the greatest outlier? I get the whole glass half full thing. But you’re saying there’s a good chance 4 guys will go for 3 yards? If so, then it’s safe to assume that the TE and RB position will also generate 300-500 yards each. That would bring the tally closer to 4K. For a rookie QB. Or even McCown. Glass half full indeed. 

You can compile a WR group of 10 guys capable of going 750 yards a season but that doesn’t mean they’ll get you 7500 yards total. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

14 hours ago, Paradis said:

I thought we covered the NE outlier. Basing arguments and strategies off that is not sane. 

And i missed the part where you called our WR corps elite. Suddenly this conversation feels like it needs to go in a different direction.... Are you ok?

But then Philly would be an outlier and so would the Rams. I don't think our WR corps is elite. I think they could be very good and balanced.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

16 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

No.  First of all, these guys have not proven able to do this.  Of the 4 players that you are counting on, none have had 2 seasons over 800 yards.  Pryor's 2nd best year was 240 yards, Enunwa's 315. Anderson is in his 2nd year, but the others have been in the league from 2014, 2012 and 2011.  I am okay with seeing what we have, but acting like this is some kind of strength is misguided.  

Nobody thinks they are all having 1,000 yard seasons?  See below -  1,000 + 750 + 700-800 + 700-800?  So, they are all going to have career years?  

1,000 + 750 + 700-800 + 700-800?  So, they are all going to have career years?  This isn't going to happen.  

Dude, I don't give a **** about their average per catch.  Look at their average per target.  There are not enough throws around for these guys to all sniff 800 yards.  Everyone of them required 100+ to get to 800.  Then you are expecting Herndon or Leggett to get 400 yards?  On what?  4 targets?  I expect them to throw to the backs a bunch too. If you are gauging success on yards per season, you are bound to be disappointed. 

Yes, I do think those numbers will be very possible. What you aren't factoring into your targets argument is that for four games Bryce Petty was our QB and threw 55 completions on a 112 attempts for a 49.16% completion rate. He was absolutely terrible. So then the question becomes -- do you blame all the receivers for their "inefficiency" or the QB. I'm confident that whether it's McCown or Darnold (or Bridgewater if he's truly healthy) the efficiency will be substantially better and the passing game will be exploited with higher frequency. The coaches didn't want Petty to pass most of the time because he was so pitiful. These four receivers with any of the three above QB's will be better than anything we showed last year (not to mention that our OL will be modestly better and at least give the QB an extra second to find a receiver. I'm not even factoring in the TE's at this point. I don't know what they can do at this point, but alone or combined, they'll at least do no worse than ASJ did last year.

[JetBlue]

22 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

I can’t take anything you say valid if you still calling him One trick pony .  Go re watch the games Anderson ran plenty routes off the tree this year . It’s specifically what he worked on with Chad Johnson last offseason and he improved quite a bit a it . 

Anyone who is still calling this guy a one trick pony is an idiot who is just repeating what they heard or saw from his rookie year.  Anyone who actually WATCHED him play last season knows he has expanded his route tree and was running slants, curls and other routes including go routes.   This guy may have some off the field concerns but I bet most objective fans can see the talent this kid has.  He has only scratched the surface of his potential.

[JetBlue]

11 hours ago, oc_jet said:

Our SOJF are selling our WR core short. In the thread about Pryor in late March.  I posted the following four numbered assessments below. First, the Jets had two top 30 WRs in 2017. Stop stating that Anderson and Kearse are JAGs. It aint true. They both ran a large amount of the route tree and are not one trick ponies. Contrary to popular belief, we dont need a true WR1 yet. Secondly, for the first time in a long while, the Jets have a solid and diverse WR core, who have all demonstrated success on the field. They may not be stars, but they are effective. The Jets will become a mismatch nightmare for teams in 2018. Third, all of my former assessments didnt include Enunwa, who would be yet another weapon that defenses would have to account for. With 4-5 capable WRs on the field at any given time, someone should always be open. Third, realize that Pryor is a freak. He is huge, very fast and will demand CB1 coverage, which leaves CB2 on Anderson. Otherwise, having a CB2 on Pryor will be a mismatch, leaving CB3 on Kearse or Enunwa. Fourth, the wild cards are the RBs, the TEs and D Flowers. If any of these guys show any real talent and the ability to consistently catch passes, they will  create added space for all the other parts of the offense. 

I dont know about you, but I am excited to see what these guys can do. Plus, we now have the "Savior" in Darnold. His skill set, talent and anticipation will make everyone around him better performers. I think his mere presence on the team will elevate the offense and the QB room. They all know he is anointed, so everyone will have to step up their game, else he will be starting soon...

 1. 

This is very good analysis of Pryor's skill set is and exactly how he can help the JETS and himself in 2018. If he remains healthy and plays like he did in his best Browns year, the JETS will be a dangerous team. Someone will always be open.

 

2.

Tom Capone1 day ago

From what I've read, Pryor was struggling to read defenses in Washington and when running an option route him and Kirk weren't on the same page, he should have more success here cause we don't have our receivers do that.

3.

 If you look at the JETS receiving last year, both Kearse and Anderson were top 30 WR in 2017 and got almost 1,000 yards. I think we all are selling these guys talents short. With the addition of Pryor, that rounds out the WR corps. With Kearse as the slot WR, Anderson as wide out (X) and Pryor as flanker (Z), you now have three different skill sets operating each of the zones on the field. Further all of these guys have experience at the other WR positions, making mismatches more likely. This a much more balanced WR corp than since the days of Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes. Plus none of these guys are slow, with clocked 40 times of 4.34 RA, 4.38 TP and 4.43 for JK. Couple that with the 6'5" , 230 lb "Megatron-like" size of Pryor, portends that the Jets should be a harder team to defend. 

Jermaine Kearse	65	810	12.5	51	5
Robby Anderson	63	941	14.9	69	7
Austin Seferian-Jenkins	50	357	7.1	28	3
Matt Forte	37	293	7.9	34	1
Bilal Powell	23	170	7.4	31	0
Jeremy Kerley	22	217	9.9	31	1
Elijah McGuire	17	177	10.4	38	1
Chad Hansen	9	94	10.4	24	0
Eric Tomlinson	8	121	15.1	34	1
Neal Sterling	6	82	13.7	35	0

 

If you study the route tree of each of these WRs, you can see exactly where they have been most effective

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/robby-anderson/AND460305

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/terrelle-pryor/PRY474541

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/jermaine-kearse/KEA511674/season

Our 3rd receiver last year was a statue... ASJ, who only averaged 7 yards per catch. If Tomlinson and/or Sterling or Leggett or whoever the Jets eventually pick up are able to attain reasonably similar numbers the Jets will improve.

4.

McCown threw 398 times in 13 games for 2926 yards.  Petty threw another 112 times for a Jets season total of 510 attempts. Anderson had 114 targets whilst Kearse had 102. Pryor in his best year with Cleveland had 140 attempts out of 460 attempts, catching 77 or 55%. Similarly, Anderson caught 55% and Kearse caught 63% of their respective targets. The RB crew had roughly 20% of Jets targets or 105. So, assuming the Jets throw 500 times in 2018. And assume that no one receiver dominates the way Pryor did with the Browns, it would be reasonable to expect that 100 targets each or 6.5 per game is very possible. If history repeats and they all maintained their historical catching and yards per catch percentages of 13.1, 14.9 and 12.5 respectively, we could project the following from each:

Pryor             100   55  720

Anderson       100  55  820

Kearse           100  63  787

The wild cards in this scenario are 1. Will Anderson be suspended? 2. How will Pryor be used in the red zone? If he picks up where Brandon Marshall left off , that will open up even more the spacing that the Jets offense will be allowed by defenses. If Pryor can achieve these numbers with another 5-7 touchdowns, I will be very happy.

FYI, for all the NY "Browns" haters, Crowell is no slouch in the receiving department either, having caught 28 of 42 in 2017 and 40 of 53 in 2016. these are both very under-rated pickups, which should pay decent dividends in 2018.

 

Also let us consider that this is Anderson's third season and he has gotten better each year. Why do people assume that playing with more weapons (Pryor and Enunwa) and possibly better quarterback play, he won't continue to improve?   I watched a lot his highlights from last season and I saw him abusing a lot of top cornerbacks.  It is to the point where I am starting to think this kid is really underrated especially by Jet fans.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Yes, I do think those numbers will be very possible. What you aren't factoring into your targets argument is that for four games Bryce Petty was our QB and threw 55 completions on a 112 attempts for a 49.16% completion rate. He was absolutely terrible. So then the question becomes -- do you blame all the receivers for their "inefficiency" or the QB. I'm confident that whether it's McCown or Darnold (or Bridgewater if he's truly healthy) the efficiency will be substantially better and the passing game will be exploited with higher frequency. The coaches didn't want Petty to pass most of the time because he was so pitiful. These four receivers with any of the three above QB's will be better than anything we showed last year (not to mention that our OL will be modestly better and at least give the QB an extra second to find a receiver. I'm not even factoring in the TE's at this point. I don't know what they can do at this point, but alone or combined, they'll at least do no worse than ASJ did last year.

It's simple.  You're wrong.  The other dude lists three guys at 1,000 to 750.  That is possible.  Four?  Nah.  You want to blame Bryce Petty?  For the catch rates of Enunwa and Pryor in 2016? Please explain.  The efficiency will be better with McCown?  Than it was with McCown? 

You are not factoring in the TEs?  I know. Cause they have no production, but you want to compare our group to the Pats?  Good stuff. 

I am all for hope.  I am a fan.  I like these guys and I am hopeful, but you expect them all to have career years when they all had their career years because they were fed tons of balls on teams with few other options. I hope they will all have better efficiency and that a solid run game will take the pressure off and make them excel.  That still will not equate to the numbers you are talking about.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It's simple.  You're wrong.  The other dude lists three guys at 1,000 to 750.  That is possible.  Four?  Nah.  You want to blame Bryce Petty?  For the catch rates of Enunwa and Pryor in 2016? Please explain.  The efficiency will be better with McCown?  Than it was with McCown? 

You are not factoring in the TEs?  I know. Cause they have no production, but you want to compare our group to the Pats?  Good stuff. 

I am all for hope.  I am a fan.  I like these guys and I am hopeful, but you expect them all to have career years when they all had their career years because they were fed tons of balls on teams with few other options. I hope they will all have better efficiency and that a solid run game will take the pressure off and make them excel.  That still will not equate to the numbers you are talking about.

Whoa, partner, you're jumping like a jack rabbit here. Not sure how you arrived at me saying anything about Petty and the catch rates for Enunwa or Pryor. I have my failings but that would be completely brain dead. I was referencing your comments about targets last year and how inefficient Anderson and Kearse were. What I was suggesting is that even if McCown played a full year (no Petty) those two would have been better, and that the four they have this year will all do well. Assuming both Enunwa and Pryor are healthy, yeah, I really do believe they will put up significant numbers -- 700 - 800 range? Yes. I won't quibble over specific yardage -- I don't really care what the specific number is or how it balances out. It will be better overall this year by a long shot over last year. And nowhere did I compare our receiving group to the Pats because we don't have Tom Brady. What I have said is that the model the Pats, Eagles, and Rams used can work.

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Whoa, partner, you're jumping like a jack rabbit here. Not sure how you arrived at me saying anything about Petty and the catch rates for Enunwa or Pryor. I have my failings but that would be completely brain dead. I was referencing your comments about targets last year and how inefficient Anderson and Kearse were. What I was suggesting is that even if McCown played a full year (no Petty) those two would have been better, and that the four they have this year will all do well. Assuming both Enunwa and Pryor are healthy, yeah, I really do believe they will put up significant numbers -- 700 - 800 range? Yes. I won't quibble over specific yardage -- I don't really care what the specific number is or how it balances out. It will be better overall this year by a long shot over last year. And nowhere did I compare our receiving group to the Pats because we don't have Tom Brady. What I have said is that the model the Pats, Eagles, and Rams used can work.

Kearse was not particularly inefficient.  Anderson has a low catch rate, but does okay in yards per target.  Pryor is horrifically inefficient and was during his "great" season.  I suppose your hope would be that Enunwa is used as h-back/TE again to absorb some of those targets.

You want to model our receiving group on the Pats, but they have Gronk drawing coverage, the way the Eagles have Ertz.  I don't see Herndon or Leggett pulling that kind of weight.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

But then Philly would be an outlier and so would the Rams. I don't think our WR corps is elite. I think they could be very good and balanced.

You did say they could be elite (FTR)

Anyway, look - take a step back and look at this group with colorblind lenses. Could they be a balanced, productive, consistent group? Sure - yea maybe. If water breaks our way, why not. 

But lets be honest. Look at this group like a GM would - evaluating long term sustainability. I love Pryor, but he's a converted QB with 1 good year at 29 years old. Our Z was out for a year with a broken neck. Robbie seems more dense that rough diamond, and our rookies have shown next to nothing.

You gotta be looking at this with honest john perspective as a GM. We don't have proven talent that we can build around. Plain and simple. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

Anyone who is still calling this guy a one trick pony is an idiot who is just repeating what they heard or saw from his rookie year.  Anyone who actually WATCHED him play last season knows he has expanded his route tree and was running slants, curls and other routes including go routes.   This guy may have some off the field concerns but I bet most objective fans can see the talent this kid has.  He has only scratched the surface of his potential.

Robbie didn’t even crack the top 30 in receptions last year, but still managed almost 1,000 yards.. what’s that tell you ?‍♂️?. 

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You gotta be looking at this with honest john perspective as a GM. We don't have proven talent that we can build around. Plain and simple. 

You can't build around guys that are on 1-year contracts. Every single one of those guys is a FA in 2019.  Anderson should be an RFA, but the others are all completely in walk years. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

Also let us consider that this is Anderson's third season and he has gotten better each year. Why do people assume that playing with more weapons (Pryor and Enunwa) and possibly better quarterback play, he won't continue to improve?   I watched a lot his highlights from last season and I saw him abusing a lot of top cornerbacks.  It is to the point where I am starting to think this kid is really underrated especially by Jet fans.

Well that’s an easy 1. It’s not a knock on Anderson. When his stats decrease this yr it’s not on him or the qb most likely, but the coaching calls. 

 Bowles fired Morton for passing too much, specifically for targeting Anderson as first choice almost all pass plays it was said. Which what other choice did he have ? First look to see if the deep threat was there, if not check down to short recievers Who should be more open if they are doubling deep. But that is why Morton was fired. Because he passed too much, and targeted Anderson too much. That was the reasoning. Because the O did pretty dam good with such little to work with. Morton deserved a medal for getting McCown to play that well. But Todd Bowles wants much more conservative ( running game ) play calling. He will be looking more for the same outs and curls when he does elect to pass. I’m sure Robbie was not pleased to see Morton go.

[RoadFan]

On 5/17/2018 at 12:09 PM, Paradis said:

Oooh now we're talking about elite? *eye roll*

These guys are all #1 on most offenses. 

1. Brown
2. OBJ
3. Green
4. Gordon
5. Evans
6. Allen
7. Cooper
8. Robinson
9. Watkins
10. Thomas 
11. Hilton
12. Jones
13. Cooks
14. Hopkins
15. M Thomas
16. Adams
17. Jeffery
18. Bryant

 

Take your numbers somewhere else. Couple of those guys near the bottom are in swing years and slowing down - but all those guys are capable of producing. they're talented WRs who defense game plan for and can fill #1 shoes. 

Some of the names on your list are ridiculous.

Sammy Watkins has zero business being mentioned.  Dez Bryant has zero business being mentioned.  I assume you didn't mean Martavis Bryant who will prove to be better than Dez in Oakland.

TY is good, not great.   Jeffery same.  Cooks same.  A-Rob same. Adams has been up and down with Aaron Rodgers to work with.  Cooper can play but he was dreadful last year.  Josh Gordon has elite talent but need more info. 

Your list should have a max of about 8 or 9 guys on it.  That's it.

I have;

OBJ, Green, Evans, Brown, Jones, Allen, Hopkins, Thomas... done.

 

 

[Bruce Harper]

23 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

The fact u think Sammy Watkins is a number 1 is comical . He got 15 mill and everyone thought he got overpaid .  Dude had 598 yard in 15 games  yet you wanna trash your own in Robby who clearly out performed Sammy this year and last year 

I have to chuckle that the Bills paid two firsts for Watkins (and then dumped him)  and overpaid fro Allen too, this year.

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Some of the names on your list are ridiculous.

Sammy Watkins has zero business being mentioned.  Dez Bryant has zero business being mentioned.  I assume you didn't mean Martavis Bryant who will prove to be better than Dez in Oakland.  Jones?  You mean Marvin Jones?  Nice player but seriously?

TY is good, not great.   Jeffery same.  Cooks same.  A-Rob same. Adams has been up and down with Aaron Rodgers to work with.  Cooper can play but he was dreadful last year.  Josh Gordon has elite talent but need more info. 

Your list should have a max of about 8 or 9 guys on it.  That's it.

I have;

OBJ, Green, Evans, Brown, Allen, Hopkins, Thomas... done.

 

 

Julio Jones doesn't make your list? Did he retire?  Kind of hard to take you seriously with that one. 

[#27TheDominator]

Denigrating other teams WRs doesn't really seem to help the argument.  Is Golden Tate a true #1?  I am not sure, but he is certainly a better bet than anything on the Jets.  Same goes for Cooks, Landry, Hilton, Baldwin, Thielen, etc.  We bust on guys like Mike Wallace for flaming out after getting his big deal in Minnesota, but the guy put up numbers in 2016 and 2017 that match our "Big4's" career bests. 

[RoadFan]

19 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Julio Jones doesn't make your list? Did he retire?  Kind of hard to take you seriously with that one. 

Oops... forgot about Julio.  Brain fart. Yeah that looks silly.  Better fix it.

[RoadFan]

22 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Julio Jones doesn't make your list? Did he retire?  Kind of hard to take you seriously with that one. 

Hopefully the rest of the post made sense.

[jetstream23]

16 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

He sure as hell abused #1 corners on regular last year . 

I'm still not 100% sold that he's a #1.  I'm ready to be proven wrong and hope that I am.  Maybe the addition of a more dynamic QB that can accentuate Robby's capabilities will help.  When I look around the league at true #1's like Antonio Brown, Michael Thomas, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Mike Evans, OBJ, etc. I just can't put Robby in that vicinity, let alone that group, just yet.  Year 3 can be a big breakout for WRs....it was for Laverneous Coles.  If Robby takes his game up another rung on the ladder then yes, I might start to think we have a guy who can be what Keyshawn Johnson and Brandon Marshall were in their best years with the Jets.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, RoadFan said:

Some of the names on your list are ridiculous.

Sammy Watkins has zero business being mentioned.  Dez Bryant has zero business being mentioned.  I assume you didn't mean Martavis Bryant who will prove to be better than Dez in Oakland.

TY is good, not great.   Jeffery same.  Cooks same.  A-Rob same. Adams has been up and down with Aaron Rodgers to work with.  Cooper can play but he was dreadful last year.  Josh Gordon has elite talent but need more info. 

Your list should have a max of about 8 or 9 guys on it.  That's it.

I have;

OBJ, Green, Evans, Brown, Jones, Allen, Hopkins, Thomas... done.

that's bullsh*t. Your criteria is fantasy football. Not real life. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

You did say they could be elite (FTR)

Anyway, look - take a step back and look at this group with colorblind lenses. Could they be a balanced, productive, consistent group? Sure - yea maybe. If water breaks our way, why not. 

But lets be honest. Look at this group like a GM would - evaluating long term sustainability. I love Pryor, but he's a converted QB with 1 good year at 29 years old. Our Z was out for a year with a broken neck. Robbie seems more dense that rough diamond, and our rookies have shown next to nothing.

You gotta be looking at this with honest john perspective as a GM. We don't have proven talent that we can build around. Plain and simple. 

The build for the future issue is a legitimate concern. I was focused on how this group will do in 2018, if healthy. But as others have said, offensive scheme will be an issue. If we go "ground and pound" it will of course impact pass production.

[Tony MaC]

This is not a bad unit, what the team lacks in a proven big numbers WR (I hesitate to say #1 because I've always found the phrase silly in a position that's got two or three different roles rather than a singular starting role) its got enough talent and upside to work with for the time being.

We can look at the glass half full or empty on each player, but I'm of the mind that there's enough here that we can assume SOMEBODY reaches their potential and provides a service to the passing game. It's rather unlikely (possible, but unlikely) that last years picks show no improvement AND Pryor and Q don't return to their 2016 forms AND Anderson gets suspended and never builds his on second year AND Kearse becomes unreliable. Its just as improbable that everyone looks great at once, the reality will likely fall well in between a sunshiner and darksider outlook.

As for the future... Hansen, Stewart, Enunwa and Anderson stand a chance of being a part of that, especially the latter two if they continue their current on field trajectories (assuming they can stay on field)

Kearse and Pryor are handy to have around for now, though I suspect that one or neither of them is on the team next year.

 

[Jetsplayer21]

26 minutes ago, Tony MaC said:

This is not a bad unit, what the team lacks in a proven big numbers WR (I hesitate to say #1 because I've always found the phrase silly in a position that's got two or three different roles rather than a singular starting role) its got enough talent and upside to work with for the time being.

We can look at the glass half full or empty on each player, but I'm of the mind that there's enough here that we can assume SOMEBODY reaches their potential and provides a service to the passing game. It's rather unlikely (possible, but unlikely) that last years picks show no improvement AND Pryor and Q don't return to their 2016 forms AND Anderson gets suspended and never builds his on second year AND Kearse becomes unreliable. Its just as improbable that everyone looks great at once, the reality will likely fall well in between a sunshiner and darksider outlook.

As for the future... Hansen, Stewart, Enunwa and Anderson stand a chance of being a part of that, especially the latter two if they continue their current on field trajectories (assuming they can stay on field)

Kearse and Pryor are handy to have around for now, though I suspect that one or neither of them is on the team next year.

 

We can get through this yr as long as Mac and Bowles realizes after this yr 90% of the resources - Free agency and draft, MUST go to the offense that has been ignored for years. Todd Bowles is going to fight Mac on that, but hopefully Mac has some balls. The Oline needs the most attention.