Poorly coached team

[rammagen]

13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Except that Mo had his best season, his 12 sack, pro bowl year under Bowles, not Rex.  The year before under Rex he had 6.

Sheldon went down every year from year one.

my time line may be off but they both regressed and we have developed literally no one under bowles. How can you go from 12 sacks to being cut that is not only on the player but on Bowles. The team has a severe lack of discipline, look at the penalties we take, look the same mistakes time after time.  You can not just blame GM for lack of talent.  I think the coach goes before the gm where as most of us feel they should change everything. and let the next gm hire the coach

[Jet Nut]

23 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I said in the post that we're not the only ones, but it's important to identify whether we were really good at getting to the QB or if our stats were more due to circumstance. A team must know itself rather than delude itself.

I get that but this is just an attempt to change the fact.  Mo had his best sack total under Bowles.  And his only pro bowl season. That was my response to a post that said his best sack totals were under Rex.  Which no matter how we try and explain it off is wrong.  To me it had nothing to do with who is the better HC

[Jet Nut]

46 minutes ago, rammagen said:

my time line may be off but they both regressed and we have developed literally no one under bowles. How can you go from 12 sacks to being cut that is not only on the player but on Bowles. The team has a severe lack of discipline, look at the penalties we take, look the same mistakes time after time.  You can not just blame GM for lack of talent.  I think the coach goes before the gm where as most of us feel they should change everything. and let the next gm hire the coach

You fall off like that when you get your money and stop caring.  Unless you can give examples of how Mo was coached and used differently after his 12 sack, pro bowl season that led to his drop off.

And there are plenty of examples of players who have gotten better.  Had nothing to do with the HC making dumb decisions on the field with clock management etc.  

 

[Nixhead]

Bowles is simply unprepared for the circumstances that come up during a game. Center last game - should of been replaced with the backup whoever that is. If a backup wasn’t ready that’s on Bowles. Where was the cold and windy game plan or did Bowles not know it was gonna be cold and windy. The list goes on and on about situations where Bowles just stands there arms folded looking like he never thought That would happen. He’s always unprepared for “That”. Especially injuries. Never has a backup ready to step in that’s fully up to speed and ready to go. 

[rammagen]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You fall off like that when you get your money and stop caring.  Unless you can give examples of how Mo was coached and used differently after his 12 sack, pro bowl season that led to his drop off.

And there are plenty of examples of players who have gotten better.  Had nothing to do with the HC making dumb decisions on the field with clock management etc.  

 

agree to disagree then coaching has a huge part of this entire mess. Players who have gotten better compared to those that have regressed or not improved out way the ones that have by a far margin. for every Anderson there are three other players that have not improved Peake, or are gone Stewart and Hansen as examples. You can say they were over drafted and blame talent evaluation and that comes into play but not every player drafted is a bust.

I am for cleaning house find a gm and get a coach that can develop players 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, rammagen said:

agree to disagree then coaching has a huge part of this entire mess. Players who have gotten better compared to those that have regressed or not improved out way the ones that have by a far margin. for every Anderson there are three other players that have not improved Peake, or are gone Stewart and Hansen as examples. You can say they were over drafted and blame talent evaluation and that comes into play but not every player drafted is a bust.

I am for cleaning house find a gm and get a coach that can develop players 

Well then the whole premise is wrong.  Because he had his best year with this HC.  

Peake?  A end of the draft pick? How about Lee?  Enunwa? Shell?  Copeland? Adams?  Maye?  Jenkins?  Luvu? Middleton? I can go on and on, I'm not ignoring those just to make a point.  I am listing them because its not like some try to sell others, that all the players on the team regress or never improve while here.  And thats just not true.

[rammagen]

17 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Well then the whole premise is wrong.  Because he had his best year with this HC.  

Peake?  A end of the draft pick? How about Lee?  Enunwa? Shell?  Copeland? Adams?  Maye?  Jenkins?  Luvu? Middleton? I can go on and on, I'm not ignoring those just to make a point.  I am listing them because its not like some try to sell others, that all the players on the team regress or never improve while here.  And thats just not true.

have any of those players he coached developed into something more? seriously people thought lee was bust till he has a decent yr? you can Maye has never really shown injuries, jekins is appearing to be a on demoniacal player that can not pass rush Middlteton is nothing more then a career back up. We disagree. 

I feel bad for Quincy but injuries have really limited him. We can all list exceptions but as a whole I feel players are not developing I blame that more on coaching then the GM. but if one goes they should both go

[RESNewYork]

Player development. Has there been a player that has improved upon leaving the Jets and getting this supposed better coaching? I think the best example is JoJo Natson since he is a starting return specialist. Is there someone else? I believe most are on the street.

[ZachEY]

On 10/23/2018 at 9:03 PM, Jet Nut said:

Except that Mo had his best season, his 12 sack, pro bowl year under Bowles, not Rex.  The year before under Rex he had 6.

Sheldon went down every year from year one.

Wilkerson's performance went way down after he got that contract.  That's the whole story.

[ZachEY]

23 hours ago, rammagen said:

agree to disagree then coaching has a huge part of this entire mess. Players who have gotten better compared to those that have regressed or not improved out way the ones that have by a far margin. for every Anderson there are three other players that have not improved Peake, or are gone Stewart and Hansen as examples. You can say they were over drafted and blame talent evaluation and that comes into play but not every player drafted is a bust.

 I am for cleaning house find a gm and get a coach that can develop players 

What are you thoughts on Darnold?

If you feel positively about him, how much credit do you give Bowles for that?

[Jet Nut]

44 minutes ago, rammagen said:

have any of those players he coached developed into something more? seriously people thought lee was bust till he has a decent yr? you can Maye has never really shown injuries, jekins is appearing to be a on demoniacal player that can not pass rush Middlteton is nothing more then a career back up. We disagree. 

I feel bad for Quincy but injuries have really limited him. We can all list exceptions but as a whole I feel players are not developing I blame that more on coaching then the GM. but if one goes they should both go

Hes in the first 3rd of year 4.  Most of those new players are here less than that.  Might want to wait a little before asking.  But you said no one has developed, now when that was shot down its developed into something more?
Not saying hes some great talent guru but to say no one has developed and most have regressed it pure nonsense.  

I didnt make Middleton into a pro bowl talent, just saying hes better than when he got here, that what development is, not if their a top level player.  

[Jet Nut]

15 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Wilkerson's performance went way down after he got that contract.  That's the whole story.

Took the money and dogged it.  Some actually believe Rex, who never chastised, punished or sat a player would have had him hustling.  Because of the way he got Gholston to change, Coples to hustle?  

[ZachEY]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Took the money and dogged it.  Some actually believe Rex, who never chastised, punished or sat a player would have had him hustling.  Because of the way he got Gholston to change, Coples to hustle?  

Collision Low Crossers talks extensively about how Tannenbaum, Rex, and Pettine were hesitant to draft Wilkerson because they worried he would dog it.  This was when he was a college kid.  Then, he gets a monster payday and we expect him to put the effort in?  Manish was right...

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Collision Low Crossers talks extensively about how Tannenbaum, Rex, and Pettine were hesitant to draft Wilkerson because they worried he would dog it.  This was when he was a college kid.  Then, he gets a monster payday and we expect him to put the effort in?  Manish was right...

Did pan out exactly that way.  I remember the reports off of his college career.  Was the reason he fell to us.  Hate to agree with you on Manish but he did have it right.

[nyjunc]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 3:27 PM, Jet Nut said:

Preseason expectations mean nothing...........but they underachieved.......based on.............DUH, nothing.  Yeah, stupid to use expectations to decided whether they overachieve or underachieved.  LOL, you cant make this up. 

 

 

under/over achieve based on how they are capable of playing vs. what other teams have actually done.  For example, In 2004 we were a kick away from the AFC Championship.  Entering 2005 we were considered a team that could make another deep run.  We wound up 4-12.  Based on preseason expectations beating the Jets in 2005 was a big win but the reality was we sucked and it was an easy win for teams. same thing could be said of us entering 2016, we were expected to compete in the AFC and our season was over by October or going the other way.  In 2009 we weren't expected to be good w/ a rookie QB but we became a final 4 team or 2015 when we weren't expected to be good but won 10 games.  It was a bitter disappointment losing to Buffalo week 17, we didn't celebrate that they "overachieved" b/c they actually underachieved based on play from that season.

I know you understand this but since you always struggle to debate me you will just keep bringing up meaningless points to deflect. anyone who pays attention to the NFL understands how quickly things change from year to year unless you have a superstar QB or HC. Just look at 2016 to 2017.

2016 playoff teams:

In AFC- NE, Pitt, Hou, KC, Oak, Mia: half the teams turned over in 2017.  Only NE, Pit and Hou made playoffs

in NFC- Dal, NYG, GB, Det, Atl, Sea. Only Atl made it in 2017.

Of 12 playoff teams from 2016  EIGHT didn't make the playoffs in 2017.  This type of playoff turnover happens every year and the following season every team that makes the playoffs is "expected" to make it. 

Things change very quickly in this league. Us and Buffalo were set to battle for the #1 overall pick last year, that was the "preseason expectation" for both teams.  Going winless was discussed for both of us. we won 5 and Buffalo made the playoffs.  If you actually watched the season you'd know we had excellent opportunities to win a few more games and w/ better coaching would have, you would also know how much of a disappointment it would have been for Buffalo to miss on the playoffs.

 

Please start watching football.

 

[Jet Nut]

29 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

under/over achieve based on how they are capable of playing vs. what other teams have actually done.  For example, In 2004 we were a kick away from the AFC Championship.  Entering 2005 we were considered a team that could make another deep run.  We wound up 4-12.  Based on preseason expectations beating the Jets in 2005 was a big win but the reality was we sucked and it was an easy win for teams. same thing could be said of us entering 2016, we were expected to compete in the AFC and our season was over by October or going the other way.  In 2009 we weren't expected to be good w/ a rookie QB but we became a final 4 team or 2015 when we weren't expected to be good but won 10 games.  It was a bitter disappointment losing to Buffalo week 17, we didn't celebrate that they "overachieved" b/c they actually underachieved based on play from that season.

I know you understand this but since you always struggle to debate me you will just keep bringing up meaningless points to deflect. anyone who pays attention to the NFL understands how quickly things change from year to year unless you have a superstar QB or HC. Just look at 2016 to 2017.

2016 playoff teams:

In AFC- NE, Pitt, Hou, KC, Oak, Mia: half the teams turned over in 2017.  Only NE, Pit and Hou made playoffs

in NFC- Dal, NYG, GB, Det, Atl, Sea. Only Atl made it in 2017.

Of 12 playoff teams from 2016  EIGHT didn't make the playoffs in 2017.  This type of playoff turnover happens every year and the following season every team that makes the playoffs is "expected" to make it. 

Things change very quickly in this league. Us and Buffalo were set to battle for the #1 overall pick last year, that was the "preseason expectation" for both teams.  Going winless was discussed for both of us. we won 5 and Buffalo made the playoffs.  If you actually watched the season you'd know we had excellent opportunities to win a few more games and w/ better coaching would have, you would also know how much of a disappointment it would have been for Buffalo to miss on the playoffs.

 

Please start watching football.

 

Please SU already.  

This is why youve been banned from other boards.  From a FinHeaven troll to the laughingstock of GangGreen.  Youre an annoying tool who doesnt know his own limitations and thinks hes smarter than everyone else.  I could care less how smart you think you are, we all here and elsewhere know what you are. 

 

 

[nyjunc]

57 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Please SU already.  

This is why youve been banned from other boards.  From a FinHeaven troll to the laughingstock of GangGreen.  Youre an annoying tool who doesnt know his own limitations and thinks hes smarter than everyone else.  I could care less how smart you think you are, we all here and elsewhere know what you are. 

 

 

Thank you for being a fan and following me places but you have absolutely no idea what happened there.

 

The phrase is "couldn't care less" not "could care less".  Do you get anything right?

I do not claim to be smart, I just look really smart when debating with people who aren't.

[Smashmouth]

On 10/22/2018 at 4:53 PM, Villain The Foe said:

You heard this like 15 mins ago. 

not sure what you mean 

[jetsons]

5 hours ago, TeddEY said:

What are you thoughts on Darnold?

If you feel positively about him, how much credit do you give Bowles for that?

none

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, jetsons said:

none

Exactly my point.  Velcro shoe crew blames the coach for everything they don’t like and gives no credit for the things they do.  Way to go jetsons, with the excellent caricature of yourself!

[Jet Nut]

34 minutes ago, jetsons said:

none

So to recap any player who disappoints it's due to bad coaching, by Bowles, anyone who doesn't disappoint or looks good has nothing to do with coaching?  

 

[14 in Green]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 11:09 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

lol no its not.  The only positions where we're league average or better are QB, box safety, and punter.  Maybe DT, RB, and ILB.

At the most important positions (outside of QB), we are either below average or terrible.  Lackluster O-Line with a Center who can't even snap the ball successfully.  No pass rusher whatsover.  Lousy secondary in pass coverage.  Terrible receivers.  You don't make the playoffs with a roster lacking in those areas, ever. 

Agree with just about everything you've posted in this thread except one thing. I have as much confidence in Sam developing into a Franchise QB as anyone. But at this point he isn't "average or better". He's shown signs of someone who will be that and/or more someday, but right now? No. Not yet. 

[Integrity28]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I do not claim to be smart, I just look really smart when debating with people who aren't

I don’t know about the rest of you, but Jet Nut slap-fighting with nyjunc to me represents the pinnacle of enlightened thought.

Like having a window into the mind of Einstein himself.

[NoBowles]

4 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Exactly my point.  Velcro shoe crew blames the coach for everything they don’t like and gives no credit for the things they do.  Way to go jetsons, with the excellent caricature of yourself!

In you’re opinion; what does Bowles do well as a HC?

[ZachEY]

8 hours ago, NoBowles said:

In you’re opinion; what does Bowles do well as a HC?

You mean besides triggering late-middle age white people?

[NoBowles]

Just now, TeddEY said:

You mean besides triggering late-middle age white people?

Productive response.... and I’m not white, I’m Israeli, but good talk cuz

[ZachEY]

8 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Productive response.... and I’m not white, I’m Israeli, but good talk cuz

Explaining the same thing to you for the n-teenth time feels equally productive, so I’m punting.

[CrazyCarl40]

9 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Explaining the same thing to you for the n-teenth time feels equally productive, so I’m punting.

So does Bowles when he should go for it. 

[NoBowles]

9 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Explaining the same thing to you for the n-teenth time feels equally productive, so I’m punting.

So, by punting, do you mean accusing me of not liking Bowles because he is black? And attempting to insult me by attacking my perceived age and race? Is that how you punt up their on your high horse?

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

So, by punting, do you mean accusing me of not liking Bowles because he is black? And attempting to insult me by attacking my perceived age and race? Is that how you punt up their on your high horse?

No, I mean exactly what I said, and by punting, I mean saying something I know will slide quickly under your unbelievably thin skin and walking away.

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

No, I mean exactly what I said, and by punting, I mean saying something I know will slide quickly under your unbelievably thin skin and walking away.

Lol, yes:

you: Bowles cant be called bad because he has bad talent to work with 

me: what does he do good?

you: you’re old and white and triggered, I’m out

me: nice punt with insults attached

you: I punted and I’m out and will stay out but let me get the last of my hissy fit out on you with a few more insults on the way because you’re and old mean white man

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

Lol, yes:

you: Bowles cant be called bad because he has bad talent to work with 

me: what does he do good?

you: you’re old and white and triggered, I’m out

me: nice punt with insults attached

you: I punted and I’m out and will stay out but let me get the last of my hissy fit out on you with a few more insults on the way because you’re and old mean white man

As fun as puppetry can be, the point was to move on with my day.  Until next time, friend.  I’ll check in later to see what other threads you’ve brought my name into.  CAN’T WAIT!

[NoBowles]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

As fun as puppetry can be, the point was to move on with my day.  Until next time, friend.  I’ll check in later to see what other threads you’ve brought my name into.  CAN’T WAIT!

That’s what old white men do apparently, keep punting friend, keep punting, that leg is looking very strong 

[Fantasy Island]

20 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Player development. Has there been a player that has improved upon leaving the Jets and getting this supposed better coaching? I think the best example is JoJo Natson since he is a starting return specialist. Is there someone else? I believe most are on the street.

Tommy Bohannon

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

No, I mean exactly what I said, and by punting, I mean saying something I know will slide quickly under your unbelievably thin skin and walking away.

Jackpot.