Poorly coached team

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

yeah bro the leadership is called Woody Johnson. The vikings buy players and coaches retail the Jets buy em at Dollar General. 

Bowles is not a difference maker like Belly but he's getting the most out of an awful, underfunded, 20-mil-under-the-cap-for-no-reason roster. 

Every other coach under Woody that coached more than 1 season made the playoffs at least once.

Bowles is like belichick without Brady.

The Jets have worked to have this cap space for years.  They have done a good job with this rebuild and the cap space will help push this team over the playoff hump next year but we should have at least been in the race this year

[Ex-Rex]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:45 PM, Jetster said:

This is one of the most poorly coached Jets team I've seen since the Kotite years. Unaware, ill prepared, celebrate tackles before the whistle, trotting out losers like Tomlinson, dropped pass after dropped pass, no continuity, horrible streaks of poor offensive play, then defensive plays, then special teams. Plus it's a poorly constructed team by Macc. No depth on the Oline, Long would have been replaced at halftime if Parcells or Bellicheck coached this team. Bowles just stands there with his arms folded while the refs stick it up their azz week after week. Sticking with a coach like Bowles, the Johnsons deserve what they are seeing, not Jet fans who have skin so thick we're all just shaking are heads after these horrible displays of what isn't even close to NFL worthy football. Just terrible.

I was incensed at Bowles not challenging the opening sack, which I believe was a safety. That could have turned the entire game as the Jets would have gotten the ball with a 2-0 lead which would have been 9-0 after Darnold's TD pass. He is just a complete moron and I can't wait until he is gone. Not sure if Todd Haley has the temperment for NY, but Bowles has to go.

[Gen X Jet]

Jets poorly coached.  Film at 11.

[Smashmouth]

On 10/21/2018 at 2:49 PM, Villain The Foe said:

This wasnt on the coaching. Missed passes down field, unable to convert on 3rd down. Numerous bad snaps that cause multiple fumbles, Sam Darnold not completing a pass in the entire 3rd quarter. Dropped passes to end drives in the 2nd half, poorly thrown INT etc. 

Blaming the coaches on this is an excuse. Players didnt execute on the field. Spencer Long is NOT an upgrade at center, more like a unilateral move....etc. 

This was on the players, all the way. 

giving the ball to the Vikings in the 4th quarter ? 

I remember one game last year we won the toss and received the football because Bowles wanted to spark the offense get off to a good start. DUMB

Now you forget the insane wind and take the ball in the 2nd and 3rd allowing the Vikings to have the wind in the 4th when teams in these types of games are usually vulnerable/tired 

I saw this loss coming as soon as we made that call to give the Vikings the wind at their backs and knew without a doubt the 4th quarter would be a debacle.

Poorly coached team really bad decisions.

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

giving the ball to the Vikings in the 4th quarter ? 

I remember one game last year we won the toss and received the football because Bowles wanted to spark the offense get off to a good start. DUMB

Now you forget the insane wind and take the ball in the 2nd and 3rd allowing the Vikings to have the wind in the 4th when teams in these types of games are usually vulnerable/tired 

I saw this loss coming as soon as we made that call to give the Vikings the wind at their backs and knew without a doubt the 4th quarter would be a debacle.

Poorly coached team really bad decisions.

You heard this like 15 mins ago. 

[BigO]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Buffalo held Minnesota to 6, we allowed 37.

Buffalo struggled yesterday and allowed 35 points to Indy, we allowed 34 points to Indy.

The Bills also won a game 13-12, we have not won a game where our O scores less than 34 points.

 

cle played 3 games in 11 days, the Jets didn't run out of gas at Cleveland.  They didn't make any adjustments just like Todd told us.  he said the QB didn't matter but it was obvious from the first play of Baker that it mattered.

did we play 3 games in 10 days last year when we led NE by 14 and blew it?

how about the following week? 3 games in 10 days again when we blew a 14 pt FOURTH QUARTER lead to MATT MOORE and the inept dolphins?

 

the excuses don't matter, the stuff keeps happening under the same leadership.  It's not a coincidence.

 

No team should have to score 34+ a game to win.  certain games sure but not every game.  51-45 was not an every week occurrence.  It was actually very rare.

This is what happens when you draft a safety at 6 that can’t cover his grandma ? 

[tuffhand]

20 hours ago, RobR said:

I want them to replace Long with Harrison and I know Harrison sucks. I'd rather a better exchange between the center and QB then a few missed blocks. It's a pick your poison kind of deal.

Harrison can miss a block on a blitzing linebacker and Sam could be injured. I'd not pick that poison.

[RobR]

1 hour ago, tuffhand said:

Harrison can miss a block on a blitzing linebacker and Sam could be injured. I'd not pick that poison.

Or he could be scraping a ball off of the turf and get rolled up. Like I said, it's a pick your poison. 

Personally I'd rather have him feel comfortable looking down the field knowing the snap is going to hit him in the hands.

[Beerfish]

Remove every bit of stuff that poor todd bowles has no control over and see what is left.   What is left is poor in game coaching, a team that is not disciplined, a team where the highest paid players never play to their potential.  A guy that seems to think he is Bill parcells or bellichick but with no results close to that.

 He sucks, and the sooner he is gone the quicker we can get on to moving forward.

As for the no talent?  Well guess what?  We have a crappy GM as well.

[Bugg]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

yeah bro the leadership is called Woody Johnson. The vikings buy players and coaches retail the Jets buy em at Dollar General. 

Bowles is not a difference maker like Belly but he's getting the most out of an awful, underfunded, 20-mil-under-the-cap-for-no-reason roster. 

Agreed about the big issue here, even if Bowles isn't even adequate. Problem is if Johnson fires Bowles and Maccagnan (and he should) he will do the same thing he has done every time; he'll give Maccagnan a new title (assistant to Mr. Bradway, perhaps?), hire the least objectionable and reasonably priced DC to be HC again,  and some scouting guy you barely ever heard of as GM. There are guys out there. Been through this; there are great young offensive-minded coaches in college(Jeff Monken of Army, Bob Chesney of Holy Cross, Joe Moorhead of Mss.State), but those guys are not getting a look if you farm things out to have Cassserly and Polian to hire their hack pals.  Under this framework it's not going to change and it's not going to work unless and until Johnson hires a club president/serious football guy (Cowher or Floyd Reese or someone like that) to run the show, gives him a big budget and takes a giant step back. And Woody Johnson like being part of things too much, to say nothing of being to cheap to do what has to be done. 

[jgb]

Is it still prohibited to say Kacy Rodgers is not a very good coordinator? For how long after a health scare do people remain above criticism?

PC DISCLAIMER: I am relieved that Kacy’s health scare seems to have been a false alarm. I want only the best for him and his family. I do not wish ill will on anyone, anytime, even on my sworn enemies who have wronged me. I am a kind and gentle soul.

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, bitonti said:

seriously? 

they started the season without a real OLB/edge or TE and now they're clean out of WR and CB. This team is built to lose games and anything they steal is a credit to the coaches.  

the D has been excellent this year they get carved up when the O goes 3 and out a million times a game. Like what happened on Sunday. Coaches aren't drawing up plays for the QB to throw the ball high and outside. Coaches coach and the players need to execute. 

 

+1 it's ridiculous. 

2 of those 30-point games the D held the other team to 10 and 16 points (and in the latter, 7 of it was a garbage time TD with 3 min left in a blowout, like the last Jets' garbage time TD 2 min earlier). In week 1 granted the situation was unique with the hand signals, but everyone could see it was the D and specials, not the offense, that put the Detroit game away. Crowell's long TD looks great in the stats, and was a great icing on the season opener cake, but it was also 100% unneeded. 

This only leaves the Colts game where we scored 30+ and "needed" it. Since someone  doesn't seem to remember:

• The D got the team out to an early lead with a TD while the offense struggled.
• Then after a Colts TD to tie it, the next Colts points were on the Jets' offense, when Hooker returned a pick into FG range. The dejected D still held them to just a FG instead of giving up a TD.
• Then on the next Jets' drive Enunwa fumbled and the Colts didn't even need to go 10 yards to get into FG range. Another Colts FG on the Jets' O.
• Next Jets TD was on a short field, starting the drive in Colts territory thanks to the D getting another turnover.
• Then on the ensuing Colts drive yet another Luck interception started the Jets O deep in Colts territory again. Just came away with a FG after the offense literally went backwards on the drive.
• 20-13 Jets at this point. The D was between fully responsible for 10, and contributed heavily to another 10, of the Jets' 20 points; meanwhile the Jets' offense to blame for 6 of the Colts' 13 points.
• Later on there's another pick against Luck, starting the offense deep in Colts territory yet again, and coming away with only a FG yet again.
• After that there's another Jets' FG only because the Colts went 4 & out and for the 4th time the offense took over already in FG range...and came up with another FG.

So what is that, 23 of 42 points that were fully because of the defense, plus another 10 that were heavily influenced by shorter fields the D served up on a silver platter? Meanwhile our offense spotted the Colts 6 points the D made sure didn't turn into 14. 

The D also played well enough to win vs Miami as well, had Darnold not spotted the Dolphins short and shorter fields on 2 of the 3 TDs they scored. Then the D further spotted the offense a drive starting on the 12 and turned it right over (think that was the one on Pryor, but can't remember for sure; either way what more do you want from a defense without a serious edge rusher on the roster?). 

Nobody's happy with how they did in the 2nd half vs Cleveland, but the game would have been over if Robby didn't fumble. Then there was the penalty on Johnson after the D played well enough to get off the field. 

Everyone played like crap vs Jacksonville, but the only time the offense got on the scoreboard until the close of the 3rd quarter was when Crowell got tackled for a safety, scoring 2 for the opposition. Then a FG. Then the next Jets FG was because the offense started the drive in FG position. The TD was courtesy of the defense, as the O took over on Jacksonville's 5. Sound familiar? 

I don't think so much of our defense, considering the resources poured into it (much of it unwisely), but also don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that the offense has been carrying this team. Not unless you didn't actually watch the games and only looked at the final scores. Left purely to relying upon the offense, with a D consistently playing at the offense's level, the Jets might not have more than 1 win this year. Well BFD; they're starting an ultra-young rookie QB and he's doing what raw rookie QBs do: he's flashed his obvious talent, and in between that he's made some horrible throws and showed rookie-like awareness. Hardly unexpected, despite the blasphemy some think it is to notice what we're all seeing. It'll of course get better with time, but that's why the Jets were never actually contenders to begin with this year. Doesn't help to have some boneheaded play and mostly crappy protection around him, not to mention unpredictable snap location, which is freaking ridiculous on its own.

So I half agree and half disagree with you, Bit. The offense isn't carrying anything. They've scored some points here and there like an NFL offense is supposed to freaking do (we're just not used to seeing it unless the opposition is doing it to us). IMO the defense is nothing special, and Bowles is the epitome of a mediocre-to-poor coach who'll only get as far as the roster and schedule set him up to do. He makes some indefensible decisions for someone who's been in this league as long as he has. He's also demonstrated he's something of a doormat, influencing the team to draft a ***damn box safety at #6 overall to make up for the leadership the sleepwalking, soft-spoken Bowles lacks himself.

[UnitedWhofans]

Don't like Bowles, but he's the best head football coach in this city. I need to come clean. I wanted Pat Shurmur to be the Jets head coach if Bowles got fired. Boy was I wrong. HIs playcalling makes Jeremy Bates look like the greatest OC ever

[dbatesman]

7 hours ago, nyjunc said:

The Jets have worked to have this cap space for years.  

This is such a fantastically succinct summation of Maccagnan’s philosophy. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to go throw myself in front of a train.

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Todd Bowles has underachieved w/ his teams each year he's been in the league

So you think the 2015 team was a 11+ win team and last year they were a 6+ win team?  They just underachied? Ok

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

I was incensed at Bowles not challenging the opening sack, which I believe was a safety. That could have turned the entire game as the Jets would have gotten the ball with a 2-0 lead which would have been 9-0 after Darnold's TD pass. He is just a complete moron and I can't wait until he is gone. Not sure if Todd Haley has the temperment for NY, but Bowles has to go.

Bowles has an opening where there should be a sack.

[greenwichjetfan]

Is stockpiling team talent on the HC or GM? Is maximizing the potential of the talent on the HC or GM? Are either mutually exclusive?

If the respective answers are GM, HC, and No, then given the current state of the Jets, both (and their staffs) need to go.

To blame only one and absolve the other is plain stupid given the last 3+ years of data.

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So you think the 2015 team was a 11+ win team and last year they were a 6+ win team?  They just underachied? Ok

we should have won at least 11 in 2015 w/ that talent and that easy schedule and getting swept by a far inferior Buffalo team.

Last year we should have won 7-8 games.  how many games did we have leads and blow?  how many games could we not execute in big moments?

the team absolutely underachieved those 2 seasons.  You can talk all you want about preseason expectations but expectations do not matter.  we were 4-5 and finished 1-6 to end the season.  That's not good. w/ better coaching we easily make the playoffs in 2015, we win 7-8 games a year ago and are 5-2/4-3 at the absolute worst.

[nyjunc]

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

+1 it's ridiculous. 

2 of those 30-point games the D held the other team to 10 and 16 points (and in the latter, 7 of it was a garbage time TD with 3 min left in a blowout, like the last Jets' garbage time TD 2 min earlier). In week 1 granted the situation was unique with the hand signals, but everyone could see it was the D and specials, not the offense, that put the Detroit game away. Crowell's long TD looks great in the stats, and was a great icing on the season opener cake, but it was also 100% unneeded. 

This only leaves the Colts game where we scored 30+ and "needed" it. Since someone  doesn't seem to remember:

• The D got the team out to an early lead with a TD while the offense struggled.
• Then after a Colts TD to tie it, the next Colts points were on the Jets' offense, when Hooker returned a pick into FG range. The dejected D still held them to just a FG instead of giving up a TD.
• Then on the next Jets' drive Enunwa fumbled and the Colts didn't even need to go 10 yards to get into FG range. Another Colts FG on the Jets' O.
• Next Jets TD was on a short field, starting the drive in Colts territory thanks to the D getting another turnover.
• Then on the ensuing Colts drive yet another Luck interception started the Jets O deep in Colts territory again. Just came away with a FG after the offense literally went backwards on the drive.
• 20-13 Jets at this point. The D was between fully responsible for 10, and contributed heavily to another 10, of the Jets' 20 points; meanwhile the Jets' offense to blame for 6 of the Colts' 13 points.
• Later on there's another pick against Luck, starting the offense deep in Colts territory yet again, and coming away with only a FG yet again.
• After that there's another Jets' FG only because the Colts went 4 & out and for the 4th time the offense took over already in FG range...and came up with another FG.

So what is that, 23 of 42 points that were fully because of the defense, plus another 10 that were heavily influenced by shorter fields the D served up on a silver platter? Meanwhile our offense spotted the Colts 6 points the D made sure didn't turn into 14. 

The D also played well enough to win vs Miami as well, had Darnold not spotted the Dolphins short and shorter fields on 2 of the 3 TDs they scored. Then the D further spotted the offense a drive starting on the 12 and turned it right over (think that was the one on Pryor, but can't remember for sure; either way what more do you want from a defense without a serious edge rusher on the roster?). 

Nobody's happy with how they did in the 2nd half vs Cleveland, but the game would have been over if Robby didn't fumble. Then there was the penalty on Johnson after the D played well enough to get off the field. 

Everyone played like crap vs Jacksonville, but the only time the offense got on the scoreboard until the close of the 3rd quarter was when Crowell got tackled for a safety, scoring 2 for the opposition. Then a FG. Then the next Jets FG was because the offense started the drive in FG position. The TD was courtesy of the defense, as the O took over on Jacksonville's 5. Sound familiar? 

I don't think so much of our defense, considering the resources poured into it (much of it unwisely), but also don't see how anyone can say with a straight face that the offense has been carrying this team. Not unless you didn't actually watch the games and only looked at the final scores. Left purely to relying upon the offense, with a D consistently playing at the offense's level, the Jets might not have more than 1 win this year. Well BFD; they're starting an ultra-young rookie QB and he's doing what raw rookie QBs do: he's flashed his obvious talent, and in between that he's made some horrible throws and showed rookie-like awareness. Hardly unexpected, despite the blasphemy some think it is to notice what we're all seeing. It'll of course get better with time, but that's why the Jets were never actually contenders to begin with this year. Doesn't help to have some boneheaded play and mostly crappy protection around him, not to mention unpredictable snap location, which is freaking ridiculous on its own.

So I half agree and half disagree with you, Bit. The offense isn't carrying anything. They've scored some points here and there like an NFL offense is supposed to freaking do (we're just not used to seeing it unless the opposition is doing it to us). IMO the defense is nothing special, and Bowles is the epitome of a mediocre-to-poor coach who'll only get as far as the roster and schedule set him up to do. He makes some indefensible decisions for someone who's been in this league as long as he has. He's also demonstrated he's something of a doormat, influencing the team to draft a ***damn box safety at #6 overall to make up for the leadership the sleepwalking, soft-spoken Bowles lacks himself.

Nowhere did I say the offense carried us, I stated a fact that in our 3 wins our O has scored 34, 34 and 35 points.  the D shouldn't need an offense to average almost 35 PPG to win. when the O has struggled the D has folded, good Ds don't do that.

 

You want to blame the O vs. Miami?  where is stated that you have to give up Tds after TOs?  The O wasn't good but a good D gets stops.  Then when we had a chance late, Miami got the ball w/ 6 mins to play and they allowed an offense that had no faith in their QB to just run out the clock for the win. 

I'm not saying the O didn't cost us but if we are saying our D has played well that simply isn't true.  They have played well in spurts, they have 2 good games at det and vs. Denver.  Other than that they haven't been good and that's 5 of 7 games. 

My point wasn't praising the offense I just don't buy this notion that the D has played well when they haven't and I'm tired of the tired excuse.  They don't have the giants offense, they don't have the Bills offense. 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Is stockpiling team talent on the HC or GM? Is maximizing the potential of the talent on the HC or GM? Are either mutually exclusive?

If the respective answers are GM, HC, and No, then given the current state of the Jets, both (and their staffs) need to go.

To blame only one and absolve the other is plain stupid given the last 3+ years of data.

I don't see how anyone looks at the team this GM has assembled, with all its holes still; and all the additional holes there will be after the season; despite going into all-out rebuild mode for 2 consecutive offseasons and counting; where the big kudos for every veteran contract is the ability to get out of it in less than 3 seasons after we see what a mistake it was; where the FA and draft success rate has hovered around 10%; where we have suspect receiving depth and still couldn't justify rostering one (let alone both) mid-round WR drafted just last year; and concludes: 

This is a superbowl-caliber roster whose only real weakness is a 21 year-old QB being understandably rough around the edges in the first half of his first season; and they'll be even better next year, as drafted current-depth players come up the pipeline, allowing them to let high-priced veterans go so they can further shore up the few remaining other areas. Right from the start he's seen the value in investing in top-notch OL talent and veterans. We've dominated the draft year after year after year thanks to the keen eye of our career-scout GM finds one terrific player after another outside of round 1 (if not outside the top 6 overall) and is why we have so few needs in free agency. This roster, 4 offseasons in the making, is top 5 right now, and barring injuries we'll be great, or at worst very good, for a long time. 

Likewise, after spending like crazy for a "competitive rebuild" (rofl), then lucking into favorable scheduling and weather and injury instances (and still missed the playoffs because they couldn't even split with Rex's otherwise 6-8 Bills), then after consecutive 5-win seasons; firing an OC for passing too much in today's era (after 1 season of putting up a somewhat-respectable offense despite a dumpster fire OL and Josh McCown throwing to Anderson plus scrap heap receivers; while keeping Kacy Rodgers season after season for obviously personal reasons; I don't see how anyone looks at this team's HC after 4 seasons and offseasons and concludes:

We are so lucky to have Bowles as our HC. Young players always get a chance to unseat far more expensive veterans; he knows when to accept the season is in the crapper and it's time to get young blood some much-needed live snaps; he basically never makes any tactical mistakes late in the game; he really understands the value of a high-powered offense and has always sought that over hiding his defense behind ticking minutes off the clock on offense by running it; his leadership skills have kept this team together because the veterans really respect him, never make him look foolish in the locker room or with PF penalties that swap possessions. He is the epitome of a HC who can coach a team to be good results with a lousy roster, and routinely make the playoffs despite a meh roster. Each win we get was expected, and each loss a total shock. He really earned that extension this past offseason, and will probably coach us to a few superbowl wins before being unanimously elected to Canton for coaching.

 

If our Jets were a 60-minute weekly reality TV show, it wouldn't be called Hard Knocks; it'd be called Amateur Hour. 

[section314]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't see how anyone looks at the team this GM has assembled, with all its holes still; and all the additional holes there will be after the season; despite going into all-out rebuild mode for 2 consecutive offseasons and counting; where the big kudos for every veteran contract is the ability to get out of it in less than 3 seasons after we see what a mistake it was; where the FA and draft success rate has hovered around 10%; where we have suspect receiving depth and still couldn't justify rostering one (let alone both) mid-round WR drafted just last year; and concludes: 

This is a superbowl-caliber roster whose only real weakness is a 21 year-old QB being understandably rough around the edges in the first half of his first season; and they'll be even better next year, as drafted current-depth players come up the pipeline, allowing them to let high-priced veterans go so they can further shore up the few remaining other areas. Right from the start he's seen the value in investing in top-notch OL talent and veterans. We've dominated the draft year after year after year thanks to the keen eye of our career-scout GM finds one terrific player after another outside of round 1 (if not outside the top 6 overall) and is why we have so few needs in free agency. This roster, 4 offseasons in the making, is top 5 right now, and barring injuries we'll be great, or at worst very good, for a long time. 

Likewise, after spending like crazy for a "competitive rebuild" (rofl), then lucking into favorable scheduling and weather and injury instances (and still missed the playoffs because they couldn't even split with Rex's otherwise 6-8 Bills), then after consecutive 5-win seasons; firing an OC for passing too much in today's era (after 1 season of putting up a somewhat-respectable offense despite a dumpster fire OL and Josh McCown throwing to Anderson plus scrap heap receivers; while keeping Kacy Rodgers season after season for obviously personal reasons; I don't see how anyone looks at this team's HC after 4 seasons and offseasons and concludes:

We are so lucky to have Bowles as our HC. Young players always get a chance to unseat far more expensive veterans; he knows when to accept the season is in the crapper and it's time to get young blood some much-needed live snaps; he basically never makes any tactical mistakes late in the game; he really understands the value of a high-powered offense and has always sought that over hiding his defense behind ticking minutes off the clock on offense by running it; his leadership skills have kept this team together because the veterans really respect him, never make him look foolish in the locker room or with PF penalties that swap possessions. He is the epitome of a HC who can coach a team to be good results with a lousy roster, and routinely make the playoffs despite a meh roster. Each win we get was expected, and each loss a total shock. He really earned that extension this past offseason, and will probably coach us to a few superbowl wins before being unanimously elected to Canton for coaching.

 

If our Jets were a 60-minute weekly reality TV show, it wouldn't be called Hard Knocks; it'd be called Amateur Hour. 

Or possibly, a term very familiar to most on this site...."last call."?

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

Or possibly, a term very familiar to most on this site...."last call."?

Well played

[Sperm Edwards]

34 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Nowhere did I say the offense carried us, I stated a fact that in our 3 wins our O has scored 34, 34 and 35 points.  the D shouldn't need an offense to average almost 35 PPG to win. when the O has struggled the D has folded, good Ds don't do that.

 

You want to blame the O vs. Miami?  where is stated that you have to give up Tds after TOs?  The O wasn't good but a good D gets stops.  Then when we had a chance late, Miami got the ball w/ 6 mins to play and they allowed an offense that had no faith in their QB to just run out the clock for the win. 

I'm not saying the O didn't cost us but if we are saying our D has played well that simply isn't true.  They have played well in spurts, they have 2 good games at det and vs. Denver.  Other than that they haven't been good and that's 5 of 7 games. 

My point wasn't praising the offense I just don't buy this notion that the D has played well when they haven't and I'm tired of the tired excuse.  They don't have the giants offense, they don't have the Bills offense. 

As you are so fond of admonishing people for their reading comprehension, the very point was that the offense didn't need to score 30 points in 2 of those games, and in the 3rd game the only reason they scored 30 points was because the defense kept setting them up with short fields, and conveniently omit how the offense set up Indy for multiple scores the other way.

You make it sound like only the offense put points on the board, despite repeated defensive ineptitude, and won those games 34-31, 34-33, and 35-30. 

Look, the defense isn't good because the roster isn't good and the coaching isn't good, but the D has more talent than the offense even though it's still missing its most important ingredient. But anyone with eyes could see they didn't need to score 30 - or even 20 - points for 2 of those 3 wins. Outside a late garbage time TD vs Denver, the defense surrendered 10 points in those 2 games. To suggest they "needed" 30 points of offense to win is patently ridiculous.

I could just as easily claim the offense couldn't come away with a win unless the D keeps the opponent to about 10 points and keeps setting up the Jets' offense on short fields. See how that works?

[rangerous]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

As you are so fond of admonishing people for their reading comprehension, the very point was that the offense didn't need to score 30 points in 2 of those games, and in the 3rd game the only reason they scored 30 points was because the defense kept setting them up with short fields, and conveniently omit how the offense set up Indy for multiple scores the other way.

You make it sound like only the offense put points on the board, despite repeated defensive ineptitude, and won those games 34-31, 34-33, and 35-30. 

Look, the defense isn't good because the roster isn't good and the coaching isn't good, but the D has more talent than the offense even though it's still missing its most important ingredient. But anyone with eyes could see they didn't need to score 30 - or even 20 - points for 2 of those 3 wins. Outside a late garbage time TD vs Denver, the defense surrendered 10 points in those 2 games. To suggest they "needed" 30 points of offense to win is patently ridiculous.

I could just as easily claim the offense couldn't come away with a win unless the D keeps the opponent to about 10 points and keeps setting up the Jets' offense on short fields. See how that works?

it also underscores how one part of the tea impacts the other.  similarly if the offense was able to put together 80 yard 7-8 minute drives the defense would be looking all worldly.  they are no where near that yet although i do think this has to be more on the coaching that the players.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I could just as easily claim the offense couldn't come away with a win unless the D keeps the opponent to about 10 points and keeps setting up the Jets' offense on short fields. See how that works?

Are we talking about 2010 again?

[rammagen]

1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Is stockpiling team talent on the HC or GM? Is maximizing the potential of the talent on the HC or GM? Are either mutually exclusive?

If the respective answers are GM, HC, and No, then given the current state of the Jets, both (and their staffs) need to go.

To blame only one and absolve the other is plain stupid given the last 3+ years of data.

well the HC develops the players and I would say we have seen players that were very good under the prior staff regress here. That is not the GM. If you clean house  you clean house I am fine with it but to me Bowles is the main reason we can not develop players

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, rammagen said:

well the HC develops the players and I would say we have seen players that were very good under the prior staff regress here. 

Who?

[nyjunc]

17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

As you are so fond of admonishing people for their reading comprehension, the very point was that the offense didn't need to score 30 points in 2 of those games, and in the 3rd game the only reason they scored 30 points was because the defense kept setting them up with short fields, and conveniently omit how the offense set up Indy for multiple scores the other way.

You make it sound like only the offense put points on the board, despite repeated defensive ineptitude, and won those games 34-31, 34-33, and 35-30. 

Look, the defense isn't good because the roster isn't good and the coaching isn't good, but the D has more talent than the offense even though it's still missing its most important ingredient. But anyone with eyes could see they didn't need to score 30 - or even 20 - points for 2 of those 3 wins. Outside a late garbage time TD vs Denver, the defense surrendered 10 points in those 2 games. To suggest they "needed" 30 points of offense to win is patently ridiculous.

I could just as easily claim the offense couldn't come away with a win unless the D keeps the opponent to about 10 points and keeps setting up the Jets' offense on short fields. See how that works?

The roster is good enough to compete for a playoff spot. It is a better roster than Buffalo had last year and they made it. Defensively there is enough talent to be a top 10 type of D especially with a defensive guru running things.

 

Again, I'm not praising the offense but the D has not been good through 7 games.  No we didn't need to score as much to beat Detroit BUT let's not forget Detroit tied the game to open up the 3rd qtr then the O went right down the field to answer with a TD.  If they don't who knows where that game goes?  

 

[varjet]

I agree that Bowles should be upgraded, and the Bowles/Rodgers dynamic is disgraceful.

The question will be whether Bowles could be replaced and upgraded given the talent available and the 2 years left on his and Mac’s contract.   My guess is that the reporting structure is also built into Bowles’ contract and cannot be changed.  

It looks like DeFellipo will be given a chance to be a HC next year, which could be early for him. The Jets will be competing with many teams for his services-teams with better ownership and reporting structures.  The Vikings should go deep into the playoffs.  I am not certain that the Jets will have the nerve to fire Bowles and whether, if they did, they end up with an upgrade and not a retreat John Fox/Jack Del Rio.

My suggestion would be to fix the GM/President/Scouting role, giving Heimerdinger more say, make Bowles can Rodgers and either upgrade or do it himself practically, and then play it by ear and be willing to clean out the coaches next year.  Some continuity for Darnold could be good, but the most important thing this team needs is more talent, with better coaching a close second.  

[greenwichjetfan]

13 minutes ago, rammagen said:

well the HC develops the players and I would say we have seen players that were very good under the prior staff regress here. That is not the GM. If you clean house  you clean house I am fine with it but to me Bowles is the main reason we can not develop players

1) Who?
2) The opposite end of that argument is that players who were garbage here and went on to have success elsewhere is an indictment of the HC. There are no such players. That fact alone is also an indictment of the GM.

[bitonti]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

So I half agree and half disagree with you, Bit. The offense isn't carrying anything. They've scored some points here and there like an NFL offense is supposed to freaking do (we're just not used to seeing it unless the opposition is doing it to us). IMO the defense is nothing special, and Bowles is the epitome of a mediocre-to-poor coach who'll only get as far as the roster and schedule set him up to do. He makes some indefensible decisions for someone who's been in this league as long as he has. He's also demonstrated he's something of a doormat, influencing the team to draft a ***damn box safety at #6 overall to make up for the leadership the sleepwalking, soft-spoken Bowles lacks himself.

 

to be clear I never said Bowles was Vince Lombardi. He is a mediocre coach by NFL standards but he gets the team ready to play. They don't go out and get blown out, even when the season is over for playoff purposes.  Blaming the draft pick on Adams on Bowles is wrong on every level, it's a Mac pick first and foremost and a player leads from the locker room differently than a coach does from the behind the big desk in his office. 

the real problem is the ownership which set up a weird reporting structure and then has checked out to lunch. The team does things like take the 9 mil rolled over cap space last year and use it to cut Mo Wilkerson. The owners use this team as a piggy bank (again, no starting edge/OLB on an NFL roster with 17 mil in cap space?)  What are they going to do with next year's roll over, put it in a Roth IRA? 

The problems are way bigger than Spencer Long's high snaps or Todd Bowles not being a Belichek level genius. This roster is still suffering from Idzik's draft incompetence and Mac's Hackenberg/Devin Smith era to a lesser degree. You can't miss on every draft pick for 10 years and blame the HC for not being special.  and why do the GM's stink? because the owner will fire people if you fly a plane with a banner over his head. 

Woody Johnson is not rich enough to buy an NFL team in 2018. J&J was 50 years ago they use the team as their biggest piece of capital and investing let's say a real WR when Terrelle Pryor goes down, that money is being spent in the UK, probably at Harrods. 

[nyjunc]

7 minutes ago, bitonti said:

to be clear I never said Bowles was Vince Lombardi. He is a mediocre coach by NFL standards but he gets the team ready to play. They don't go out and get blown out, even when the season is over for playoff purposes.  Blaming the draft pick on Adams on Bowles is wrong on every level, it's a Mac pick first and foremost and a player leads from the locker room differently than a coach does from the behind the big desk in his office. 

the real problem is the ownership which set up a weird reporting structure and then has checked out to lunch. The team does things like take the 9 mil rolled over cap space last year and use it to cut Mo Wilkerson. The owners use this team as a piggy bank (again, no starting edge/OLB on an NFL roster with 17 mil in cap space?)  What are they going to do with next year's roll over, put it in a Roth IRA? 

The problems are way bigger than Spencer Long's high snaps or Todd Bowles not being a Belichek level genius. This roster is still suffering from Idzik's draft incompetence and Mac's Hackenberg/Devin Smith era to a lesser degree. You can't miss on every draft pick for 10 years and blame the HC for not being special.  and why do the GM's stink? because the owner will fire people if you fly a plane with a banner over his head. 

Woody Johnson is not rich enough to buy an NFL team in 2018. J&J was 50 years ago they use the team as their biggest piece of capital and investing let's say a real WR when Terrelle Pryor goes down, that money is being spent in the UK, probably at Harrods. 

Bowles has coached 55 games, we have been blown out in the following games:

2015:

at Oakland, lost by 14

2016:

at KC

Vs Seattle

At Pitt

At Arizona

Vs. Indy

Vs Miami

At NE

2017:

At Oakland

At Denver

At NE

2018:

At Jax

That's 12 blowout losses in 55 games as a HC. That seems pretty high

 

 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

The roster is good enough to compete for a playoff spot. 

lol no its not.  The only positions where we're league average or better are QB, box safety, and punter.  Maybe DT, RB, and ILB.

At the most important positions (outside of QB), we are either below average or terrible.  Lackluster O-Line with a Center who can't even snap the ball successfully.  No pass rusher whatsover.  Lousy secondary in pass coverage.  Terrible receivers.  You don't make the playoffs with a roster lacking in those areas, ever. 

[UnitedWhofans]

24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol no its not.  The only positions where we're league average or better are QB, box safety, and punter.  Maybe DT, RB, and ILB.

At the most important positions (outside of QB), we are either below average or terrible.  Lackluster O-Line with a Center who can't even snap the ball successfully.  No pass rusher whatsover.  Lousy secondary in pass coverage.  Terrible receivers.  You don't make the playoffs with a roster lacking in those areas, ever. 

I would disagree with OL. There are ALOT of bad OLs in the NFL.

The secondary is not lousy, the fact that the Vikings game was a game for 3 quarters is a testament to that.

 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

we should have won at least 11 in 2015 w/ that talent and that easy schedule and getting swept by a far inferior Buffalo team.

Last year we should have won 7-8 games.  how many games did we have leads and blow?  how many games could we not execute in big moments?

the team absolutely underachieved those 2 seasons.  You can talk all you want about preseason expectations but expectations do not matter.  we were 4-5 and finished 1-6 to end the season.  That's not good. w/ better coaching we easily make the playoffs in 2015, we win 7-8 games a year ago and are 5-2/4-3 at the absolute worst.

Pure utter nonsense.  No one thought they were a 10 win team, give it up.  And they were picked to win one or maybe a couple a year ago.  They win five and you come back with they should have won 7-8.  Find one post where you said this before the season started, not after they overachieved to 5 wins and then blindly and pointlessly say they should have won more.  

Only a fool is going to even attempt to argue that they underachieved at 5-11, especially with Petty playing 3.5 games.