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Jets Place 2nd Round Tender on Anderson


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12 hours ago, RVAJet815 said:

Anderson is what he is. He's a nice player, and It would suck to lose him, but lets not get carried away here. There are a handful of options out there via mid to late round deal that could fill that role. I don't mind the 2nd rd tender at all. If someone steals him away, so be it. I'll take the 2 and be fine. 

Problem is Mac is the GM who will be using that 2nd.  I'd rather use  darts or a blind squerrel or a broken clock on draft day over Mac.  With is GM I'll take a bird in the hand EVERY time.  

I'll take Tanny on draft day 1,000x over Mac.  

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10 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

I like Robby, but if the Bills want to give us the #40 pick in the draft for him, I’ll take that. 

Why? He has proven to be able to blow the top off off a D, has developed a rapport with Darnold and showed he's more than a one trick pony the last 5 games of the season. We have a young, proven and hungry offensive weapon. Something we all agree we need more of. Why the hell is everyone so ready to give that up for a pick which is essentially a mystery?  Add to it that second rd picks haven't been great for us. 

Madness! MADNESS I TELL YOU!!! 

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8 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

He probably stays

 No one will be stupid enough to give up a 2nd rounder and a large contract to a one trick.pony like Anderson.

ok man. We get it.  You think he's a one trick pony even though he was running pretty out routes to add to the blistering go routes all of last season. What's the deal man? Did you not watch the last 4 games or look at a highlight reel of the Jets 2018 season yet? RA is all over it. 

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5 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

I think Anderson is being overvalued by some people on this board. He's a nice role player but not someone you build an offense around.

I think the 2nd round tender is just about right, and personally, I would be very surprised if another team is willing to give up that high of a pick for him.

It's the natural progression. Just because the Jets HAVE money doesn't mean that they won't save it where they can. 

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13 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

 

You are 100% correct!!

Why take the risk of losing one of our few skill players for what amounts to peanuts?

 

Your humor doesn't get enough credit around here Charlie Brown. I want you to know I always get it. :)  

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37 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

 

I'll take Tanny on draft day 1,000x over Mac.  

I am starting to believe that the Jets approach to drafting since Parcells was to defer to the coaches.  When the coach got lucky or was smart, they drafted well.  

You can see that in Donahue, Terminator, McKnight. 

The machine is broken.  

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1 hour ago, genot said:

Your joking , right, No your not. how sad.

I could say the same thing to you. Obviously you're a fan of the guy so you may be a little biased but it doesn't change the fact that Robbie, until he shows otherwise, is a guy with a limited skill set.

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49 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

ok man. We get it.  You think he's a one trick pony even though he was running pretty out routes to add to the blistering go routes all of last season. What's the deal man? Did you not watch the last 4 games or look at a highlight reel of the Jets 2018 season yet? RA is all over it. 

First you say he was running "pretty out routes to go with the blistering go routes all last season" and in the same breath you then say it was the last 4 games that this occurred. Hard to counter an argument when you contradict yourself in the same sentence.

Anderson is a deep threat at this point and until he shows otherwise on a consistent basis he remains simply that. He is too skinny to go over the middle and if he adds the needed muscle it may slow him down enough that he becomes an even bigger JAG than he is now.

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30 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

First you say he was running "pretty out routes to go with the blistering go routes all last season" and in the same breath you then say it was the last 4 games that this occurred. Hard to counter an argument when you contradict yourself in the same sentence.

Anderson is a deep threat at this point and until he shows otherwise on a consistent basis he remains simply that. He is too skinny to go over the middle and if he adds the needed muscle it may slow him down enough that he becomes an even bigger JAG than he is now.

Ok man. It says TO ADD to the pretty go routes etc. 

That's not the best foundation for an argument. I disagree with your overall point on this one, but I know you're smart enough not to get hung up on the intricacies of sentence structure. You know what I'm getting at. 

The knock on Anderson was that he essentially had one route in the bag. He proved that wasn't the case last season when everyone else was gone and we had Andre Roberts as a starting WR. I think Anderson was sort of forced into a wider role and he did very well. Sure we have a small test size for him proving consistency over a long period of time, but he did it. He was running crispy routes, toe tapping and showing great hands in contested situations.  The one knock I have is that he seems to drop the really easy one's more than I'd like.  Maybe he could beef up a smudge too, but his speed could take a hit with the weight. I'd rather not lose that.

He's seemingly taken care of the off the field issues as well. He works hard on whatever issues he has. The guy is a keeper. 

 

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The Jets and the Johnsons have a pretty corporate mentality.  

I don’t see the Jets paying Anderson real long term money.  They need him this year to help Darnold.  My guess is the hope is he can be signed for reasonable money or yields a comp pick.  He is a poor man’s Randy Moss who teams wanting to go for it will sign. 

My guess is that the Jets thought they could draft replacements but failed.  

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14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think this is true.  There is a limited time to sign him to an offer sheet.  It usually ends a week before the draft IIRC.  Plus, they can match and the poison pill contracts are illegal now.  I am not a Maccagnan fan, but this was the expected move and it is a fairly rational one.

I see that now. Cutoff is April 19th. Even still, given the team's weak WR corps and the weak WR FA class, the extra ~$1MM is well worth it to ensure we don't end up with a choice between a very late 2nd rounder and a contract they don't want to match. I think they can always take less if a team is offering a very high 2nd.

Poison pills are not at all what concerns me; it's the overall contract itself. Another team can still make an offer we don't want to match (or shouldn't have had to match). A 1st round tender would pretty much guarantee no one else will be making any competing offers. That effectively buys exclusive negotiating rights, increasing the team's leverage over a player who openly stated he wants an extension now (not after he's upped his value, as some here fantasize that all players desire).

The way this ends is:

(a) no one will make an offer: we will also do nothing all year with regards to an extension while we hold all the cards (Maccagnan has never extended anyone until after his final year under team control, so he's always paid the highest amount possible). He'll have an 1100+ yard, 8-TD 2019 season under a more pass-happy HC (about what he was on pace for with HC Bowles in just his second season, until the great Josh McCown got injured); hardly impossible it'd be a couple hundred yards more than that given the QB/HC change and a couple more seasons of experience. Then right before he becomes a UFA we'll extend him at $14MM/year after another year of salary inflation. 

(b) someone makes a kooky offer we don't want to match, and end up with a pick outside the top 50. Sam enters year 2 with Enunwa and a scrub FA and a rookie.

(c) someone makes an offer well above what the team otherwise would have this year, and we do match it. Instead of extending him at around Enunwa-level contract or lower, it'll be millions more. In other words, another team that wants him badly would set his market price instead of just us being the exclusive negotiating team with take-it-or-leave-it leverage. IMO this was an easy call, given: the relatively tiny difference between a 1st and 2nd round tender; the massive amount of cap space the team has; the poor draft results this team has had in round 2 (or in general outside the top 10 overall selections).

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Last year it was $2.9M and $4.1M .  Both should go up.  Everybody has known he was going to get the 2nd round tender since around mid-season, but people want to read into this?  If a team signs him to an offer sheet we can match.  This might even be a chance for the Jets to let him test the market to see what he'd get offered to value a longer term deal. 

 

They could have just as easily make an offer, and if he rejects it, make it known they'd accept less than a 1st round pick. Without looking it up, if the CBA doesn't technically allow accepting less, there are other ways to do a tit-for-tat other trade that effectively makes it so.

I don't really see much in terms of upside here, while there's plenty of downside.

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I see that now. Cutoff is April 19th. Even still, given the team's weak WR corps and the weak WR FA class, the extra ~$1MM is well worth it to ensure we don't end up with a choice between a very late 2nd rounder and a contract they don't want to match. I think they can always take less if a team is offering a very high 2nd.

Poison pills are not at all what concerns me; it's the overall contract itself. Another team can still make an offer we don't want to match (or shouldn't have had to match). A 1st round tender would pretty much guarantee no one else will be making any competing offers. That effectively buys exclusive negotiating rights, increasing the team's leverage over a player who openly stated he wants an extension now (not after he's upped his value, as some here fantasize that all players desire).

The way this ends is:

(a) no one will make an offer: we will also do nothing all year with regards to an extension while we hold all the cards (Maccagnan has never extended anyone until after his final year under team control, so he's always paid the highest amount possible). He'll have an 1100+ yard, 8-TD 2019 season under a more pass-happy HC (about what he was on pace for with HC Bowles in just his second season, until the great Josh McCown got injured); hardly impossible it'd be a couple hundred yards more than that given the QB/HC change and a couple more seasons of experience. Then right before he becomes a UFA we'll extend him at $14MM/year after another year of salary inflation. 

(b) someone makes a kooky offer we don't want to match, and end up with a pick outside the top 50. Sam enters year 2 with Enunwa and a scrub FA and a rookie.

(c) someone makes an offer well above what the team otherwise would have this year, and we do match it. Instead of extending him at around Enunwa-level contract or lower, it'll be millions more. In other words, another team that wants him badly would set his market price instead of just us being the exclusive negotiating team with take-it-or-leave-it leverage. IMO this was an easy call, given: the relatively tiny difference between a 1st and 2nd round tender; the massive amount of cap space the team has; the poor draft results this team has had in round 2 (or in general outside the top 10 overall selections).

They could have just as easily make an offer, and if he rejects it, make it known they'd accept less than a 1st round pick. Without looking it up, if the CBA doesn't technically allow accepting less, there are other ways to do a tit-for-tat other trade that effectively makes it so.

I don't really see much in terms of upside here, while there's plenty of downside.

i think you are right unless there is something else that makes them feel he's not worth a no. 1 tender.  i think in a way, the no. 2 tender will set his market place because teams would be more apt to offer him a contract.  if that's the case the jets could match and keep him.  i don't think any team is going to give anderson a scary high contract either.

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13 hours ago, choon328 said:

The Steelers don't save any money from trading Brown, it's a wash. And the pick would be in 2019 not 2020. I'd be more concerned about the Bills making an offer. His style fits perfectly with Allens big arm.

That's not true. The Steelers save the money they would have otherwise paid him. Anything they pay him has to come off the cap. They save just over $14MM by someone else paying his 2019 salary and RB instead of paying it themselves. That clears $14MM for them to pay someone else.

The amortized cap number from prior SB paid is a sunk cost. Whether it accelerates to this year or not is mostly irrelevant because it's a shell game that can be moved around so it hits later (just as it's scheduled to right now) by renegotiating any number of other players, in particular a new signing where it's common for them to have a lower cap number in year 1. 

$3.8MM of past bonus is hitting this year's cap no matter what. The $7.6MM still remaining thereafter can either hit all this year (by cutting/trading him before June 1) or it can hit all in 2020 (by doing so next year) or spread evenly through 2021 by keeping him (or by designating him a post-6/1 cut in 2020). But that $7.6MM is hitting no matter what. It doesn't become a new expense by trading Brown.

So BFD; if they sign RA in this example, then they structure his contract around so his 2019 cap hit is ~$7MM lower in year 1, proportionally higher later, and don't skip a beat for the year. Or they just renegotiate someone else so their cap hit comes a little later while Brown's hits accelerate earlier. In the end it'll be the same because by next year Brown will be 100% off their books and the net will be zero. Moving $7MM of Brown's to 2019 and then moving $7MM of others to 2020/2021 is the same net hit each year and same net hit cumulatively. 

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I think the downside of tendering him at a 1st rounder is that you are tipping your hand that he is worth $15M a year.  Your also burning a million for no reason.  Enunwa was in the same situation last season.  They tendered him at a 2nd.  Nobody made him an offer and Maccagnan thinks he is worth $9M.  Remember, the offers aren't made on the free market.  They are the offer plus a 2nd.  Attitude-wise, the Jets might not like Anderson that much.  There was some talk of him being shopped or offers being made during the 2018 offseason.  There may be some behind the scenes reasons they would want to move him.  Probably not all related to Gase but the Dolphins moved on from Ajayi and Landry while he was there.  

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9 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i think you are right unless there is something else that makes them feel he's not worth a no. 1 tender.  i think in a way, the no. 2 tender will set his market place because teams would be more apt to offer him a contract.  if that's the case the jets could match and keep him.  i don't think any team is going to give anderson a scary high contract either.

It is an unnecessary gamble. If this was a loaded FA class for WRs then that might be a good argument. With a weak one, as there is, and with so many teams having so much cap space, the greater likelihood is competing offers drive the price up not down.

Teams aren't going to waste time making a low offer that they think the Jets will match in a heartbeat. If it happens, and we only need to match a $7MM/year offer, then I'll stand corrected. I see that as far-fetched.

They already had plenty of leverage built in. Anderson has seen players get injured before getting paid, and has openly admitted he's highly motivated to sign an extension now rather than play out the year to try and increase his value for next season. Keep in mind, he has made relatively nothing compared to his NFL peers since he was undrafted, and doesn't pocket any money this year until his week 1 game check. We couldn't have asked for a better opportunity to fall into our laps given this extension desire of his following a down season. 

Teams still could/would have made contract offers if we made it known we'd accept less than his tender level in trade. 

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2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

I could say the same thing to you. Obviously you're a fan of the guy so you may be a little biased but it doesn't change the fact that Robbie, until he shows otherwise, is a guy with a limited skill set.

There are very few receivers with the big play ability of Anderson. Receivers who can get open deep on a consistent basis are rare in the league. You keep those players.He's not the complete receiver that a Julius Jones is, or others, So what. Neither was Wesley Walker.

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It is an unnecessary gamble. If this was a loaded FA class for WRs then that might be a good argument. With a weak one, as there is, and with so many teams having so much cap space, the greater likelihood is competing offers drive the price up not down.

Teams aren't going to waste time making a low offer that they think the Jets will match in a heartbeat. If it happens, and we only need to match a $7MM/year offer, then I'll stand corrected. I see that as far-fetched.

They already had plenty of leverage built in. Anderson has seen players get injured before getting paid, and has openly admitted he's highly motivated to sign an extension now rather than play out the year to try and increase his value for next season. Keep in mind, he has made relatively nothing compared to his NFL peers since he was undrafted, and doesn't pocket any money this year until his week 1 game check. We couldn't have asked for a better opportunity to fall into our laps given this extension desire of his following a down season. 

Teams still could/would have made contract offers if we made it known we'd accept less than his tender level in trade. 

i certainly see your point.  i will say that if the jets start winning and anderson gets his touches and does something with them then he will get paid.

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17 hours ago, choon328 said:

Straight line WR's are not valued as much as shifty slot type WR's in Gase's offense. That's why Jarvis Landry had great numbers in Miami with a below average QB. Robbie doesn't have that shiftiness to him to be the focal point of his style of offense. That's why I can see them going after Humphries hard to fill that role and not want to spend $10+ million on Robbie if he's not going capable of producing big numbers in this offense. Why do you think Davante Parker never had a huge season in Miami and a guy like Danny Amendola put up bigger numbers last year? His system devalues straight line runners and values slot type WR's.

That straight line thing is really overstated, IMHO.  If you look at Darnold's season highlights, you will see a lot of catches where he is running good routes.  We tend to remember the straight line plays because they often result in TDs.

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12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It is an unnecessary gamble. If this was a loaded FA class for WRs then that might be a good argument. With a weak one, as there is, and with so many teams having so much cap space, the greater likelihood is competing offers drive the price up not down.

Teams aren't going to waste time making a low offer that they think the Jets will match in a heartbeat. If it happens, and we only need to match a $7MM/year offer, then I'll stand corrected. I see that as far-fetched.

They already had plenty of leverage built in. Anderson has seen players get injured before getting paid, and has openly admitted he's highly motivated to sign an extension now rather than play out the year to try and increase his value for next season. Keep in mind, he has made relatively nothing compared to his NFL peers since he was undrafted, and doesn't pocket any money this year until his week 1 game check. We couldn't have asked for a better opportunity to fall into our laps given this extension desire of his following a down season. 

Teams still could/would have made contract offers if we made it known we'd accept less than his tender level in trade. 

Someone signing Robby means they also have to give up a 2nd round draft pick. That is a lot of capital to give up for Robby Anderson. That means that any contract they offer him will likely be less than it would be if he were a free agent and did not have to give up the draft pick.

This allows the Jets to match that lesser offer, and sign him for less than they would as a free agent competing against teams not having to give up a high draft pick.

Also allows them to just take a 2 for Robby Anderson, which, given his off the field issues, and his talent level, that is not a bad thing at all.

I have seen nothing from Robby to complain about a 2 for him.

There is plenty to kill Mac about, this is not one of those things. There was zero chance they get a 1st for him, he's just not that good. Very slight chance they get a 2, and if they do, it gives them a ton of options to maneuver with or without him in that case.

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17 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Terrible.

Hes a 1,000 yard WR if he has a QB who can get him the ball.  Which of course the Jets now have.

He also is provably the best deep threat in the entire league.  He dusts just about any All Pro CB. Not his fault he would have had I think around 6 more TDs if Fitzpatrick had not underthrown him on all those routes.  And the same thing has surfaced every year he has played, but not last year. Last year he was victim of an OC who should never have been an OC, along with an HC who should never have been an HC.

Jets going to be able to replace that with a 2nd rounder?  I don’t think so.

i hope I’m wrong, but I think they lose him.

I am not that happy about it.  But they can match and have plenty of dough.

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think the downside of tendering him at a 1st rounder is that you are tipping your hand that he is worth $15M a year.  Your also burning a million for no reason.  Enunwa was in the same situation last season.  They tendered him at a 2nd.  Nobody made him an offer and Maccagnan thinks he is worth $9M.  Remember, the offers aren't made on the free market.  They are the offer plus a 2nd.  Attitude-wise, the Jets might not like Anderson that much.  There was some talk of him being shopped or offers being made during the 2018 offseason.  There may be some behind the scenes reasons they would want to move him.  Probably not all related to Gase but the Dolphins moved on from Ajayi and Landry while he was there.  

I don't think it signals anything like that if the reason behind the decision is made known to his agent: that now he won't get an offer from anyone else. Any agent is savvy enough to pick up on that, and there's no need to even make that point in a subtle way. If he doesn't accept the answer, then he can play out the year with no extension. 

Enunwa is very different. Coming off a neck injury, he would never have been nearly as sought after in 2018 as a healthy Anderson would be in 2019. Anderson has no such current injury questions and finished the last season strong where Enunwa was coming off an entire missed season. Anderson is also a much more explosive/dynamic player, and you'd find few around the league who think Enunwa's upside is higher. He's just worth more on the open market this year than Enunwa last year. Coming off an injury and a single 847-yard season from 2014 through 2017, while missing the entire prior season to a neck injury, a 2nd round tender for Enunwa fully guaranteed no offers from anyone. 

Given Darnold's development being of paramount importance, I just think this is a poor choice of timing to get cute with $1MM when they have $100M to spend. 

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21 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Someone signing Robby means they also have to give up a 2nd round draft pick. That is a lot of capital to give up for Robby Anderson. That means that any contract they offer him will likely be less than it would be if he were a free agent and did not have to give up the draft pick.

This allows the Jets to match that lesser offer, and sign him for less than they would as a free agent competing against teams not having to give up a high draft pick.

Also allows them to just take a 2 for Robby Anderson, which, given his off the field issues, and his talent level, that is not a bad thing at all.

I have seen nothing from Robby to complain about a 2 for him.

There is plenty to kill Mac about, this is not one of those things. There was zero chance they get a 1st for him, he's just not that good. Very slight chance they get a 2, and if they do, it gives them a ton of options to maneuver with or without him in that case.

A high 2nd and a low 2nd aren't the same thing. The latter isn't that much, especially if it's a playoff team that feels a ready-now WR is more valuable to them than a maybe-prospect.

I don't think teams make that calculation that you think. When trading for a player they covet, in order to extend him, the player typically gets no less than market rate. Look how much Chicago surrendered for Mack; it didn't in any way affect how high the contract was. Ditto when NE picked up Welker as some bring up; it was a trade, but they didn't just give up a 2nd rounder: they also paid what was then seen as an above market rate contract. 

If a team is willing to surrender a 2nd rounder for him then they want him. The very point about a 1st rounder is the one I made myself. I never said we'd get a 1st rounder for him; the entire point is no one would pay that, allowing the team to enjoy exclusive negotiating rights with a player who desperately wants an extension right now. 

I think your difference of opinion with mine stems more from your opinion that, should the Jets decide not to match an offer from a playoff team with a lower pick slot, it'd be no real loss at all. 

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12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Welker joined the Pat's when he was a 2nd round tender of the Dolphins.

Thought they traded a 2nd and a 7th, but looking it up now it says Miami had made a 2nd round offer sheet.

Hardly matters; they gave up a 2nd rounder for him, which is the tag level. 

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46 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That's not true. The Steelers save the money they would have otherwise paid him. Anything they pay him has to come off the cap. They save just over $14MM by someone else paying his 2019 salary and RB instead of paying it themselves. That clears $14MM for them to pay someone else.

The amortized cap number from prior SB paid is a sunk cost. Whether it accelerates to this year or not is mostly irrelevant because it's a shell game that can be moved around so it hits later (just as it's scheduled to right now) by renegotiating any number of other players, in particular a new signing where it's common for them to have a lower cap number in year 1. 

$3.8MM of past bonus is hitting this year's cap no matter what. The $7.6MM still remaining thereafter can either hit all this year (by cutting/trading him before June 1) or it can hit all in 2020 (by doing so next year) or spread evenly through 2021 by keeping him (or by designating him a post-6/1 cut in 2020). But that $7.6MM is hitting no matter what. It doesn't become a new expense by trading Brown.

So BFD; if they sign RA in this example, then they structure his contract around so his 2019 cap hit is ~$7MM lower in year 1, proportionally higher later, and don't skip a beat for the year. Or they just renegotiate someone else so their cap hit comes a little later while Brown's hits accelerate earlier. In the end it'll be the same because by next year Brown will be 100% off their books and the net will be zero. Moving $7MM of Brown's to 2019 and then moving $7MM of others to 2020/2021 is the same net hit each year and same net hit cumulatively. 

They save the cash they would have paid him but the savings on the cap is minimal at best. I'll let Jason at over the cap explain it:

What is the dead money and cap savings is Brown is cut?

If Antonio Brown is cut the Steelers will need to account for at least $21.12 million on the salary cap. This dead money is from a $19 million signing bonus that was paid to Brown in 2017 and $12.96 million salary conversion paid to Brown in 2018 to help the Steelers with their salary cap this season. The $19 million was prorated over five years and the $12.96 million over 4 years. Both have three years of proration remaining and the Steelers need to account for all of that remaining money whether or not he is on the team next year.

If Brown is released the team will save $1.045 million in cap room. At least $495,000 of that would be offset by whomever takes his place on the roster so the effective cap savings are nil.

What about a trade?  How much cap relief is there is a trade?

A trade and a cut are treated identical on the cap unless the player has guaranteed salaries remaining in his contract. Brown has none. So cut or traded the cost is $21.12 million on the cap.

Can we designate him a June 1 trade?

Nope. The June 1 designation only is allowed on players who are released. You can still get the benefit of post June 1 accounting on a trade but that means you have to make the trade on June 2 or later. That is problematic for a few reasons.

https://overthecap.com/the-steelers-options-with-antonio-brown/

 

 

So I was right.

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