Jets Place 2nd Round Tender on Anderson

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Thought they traded a 2nd and a 7th, but looking it up now it says Miami had made a 2nd round offer sheet.

Hardly matters; they gave up a 2nd rounder for him, which is the tag level. 

It was.  The Pat's had a poison pill offer sheet ready but made the deal instead.

[Jetsbb]

Remember when the Eagles thought they could fleece Maccagnan and offered only 4th rounder for Robby at the trade deadline?

[choon328]

31 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

That straight line thing is really overstated, IMHO.  If you look at Darnold's season highlights, you will see a lot of catches where he is running good routes.  We tend to remember the straight line plays because they often result in TDs.

Larry Fitzgerald runs good routes too but he's a completely different player then Julian Edelman. That's the distinction I'm making between the top of receiver Robbie is and the type of WR Gase needs in his offense.

[rayzor]

3 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

Remember when the Eagles thought they could fleece Maccagnan and offered only 4th rounder for Robby at the trade deadline?

I wonder how close Mac was.  Robby was not having a good season so far.  He had half the catches at that point from the previous season and a poll showed 40% of fans wanted the Jets to pull the trigger.

[genot]

36 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

That straight line thing is really overstated, IMHO.  If you look at Darnold's season highlights, you will see a lot of catches where he is running good routes.  We tend to remember the straight line plays because they often result in TDs.

It's laughable, that people, with tape on You tube available, could state that as an opinion.

[genot]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Larry Fitzgerald runs good routes too but he's a completely different player then Julian Edelman. That's the distinction I'm making between the top of receiver Robbie is and the type of WR Gase needs in his offense.

Offenses field more than one receiver at a time. Why wouldn't any coach want a receiver out there who can blow the lid off the defense. It opens things up for the other receivers on short and intermediate routes.

[Sperm Edwards]

24 minutes ago, choon328 said:

They save the cash they would have paid him but the savings on the cap is minimal at best. I'll let Jason at over the cap explain it:

What is the dead money and cap savings is Brown is cut?

If Antonio Brown is cut the Steelers will need to account for at least $21.12 million on the salary cap. This dead money is from a $19 million signing bonus that was paid to Brown in 2017 and $12.96 million salary conversion paid to Brown in 2018 to help the Steelers with their salary cap this season. The $19 million was prorated over five years and the $12.96 million over 4 years. Both have three years of proration remaining and the Steelers need to account for all of that remaining money whether or not he is on the team next year.

If Brown is released the team will save $1.045 million in cap room. At least $495,000 of that would be offset by whomever takes his place on the roster so the effective cap savings are nil.

What about a trade?  How much cap relief is there is a trade?

A trade and a cut are treated identical on the cap unless the player has guaranteed salaries remaining in his contract. Brown has none. So cut or traded the cost is $21.12 million on the cap.

Can we designate him a June 1 trade?

Nope. The June 1 designation only is allowed on players who are released. You can still get the benefit of post June 1 accounting on a trade but that means you have to make the trade on June 2 or later. That is problematic for a few reasons.

https://overthecap.com/the-steelers-options-with-antonio-brown/

 

 

So I was right.

No, you're wrong. You're conflating dead cap this year alone with total cap hits overall. @jason423 would confirm this quite easily. They dump Brown and they save $14MM. Nothing above says otherwise unless you believe the NFL will cease to exist after 2019. 

If they avoid paying another $14MM in salary+bonus then they save $14MM off their cap. Anything else is just when it's hit. His $14MM amortized bonus would accelerate to hit earlier, but they could (and would) renegotiate with others to offset it and make the net the same this year and beyond. Same amount paid out to those players they're keeping, still pay out zero to Brown, and save $14MM overall.

I was looking at another cap site at that time that incorrectly said his amortized bonus amount is $3.8MM but it makes no difference since the premise is unchanged.

If $14MM from past bonus paid was going to hit later, and would instead hit now, then they can renegotiate other so theirs will hit later instead of now. The net is the same. Move $14MM of Brown's SB hits from 2020-2021 to 2019; move $14MM of others' hits from 2019 to 2020-2021. Those players' hits would be higher later on, but Brown's $14MM from past bonus would be fully off the books and therefore wouldn't hit later along with them, so it'd even out dollar for dollar. The Steelers do it constantly. 

They clear the amount of money they would avoid paying. 

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It was.  The Pat's had a poison pill offer sheet ready but made the deal instead.

I believe you without checking myself, but I thought poison pills were outlawed earlier, after Hutchinson had a poison pill in his contract that said he'd get a $50MM roster bonus for playing more than 1 regular season game within the Washington that year, or it was something ridiculous like that. 

[genot]

The Browns and eagles will make substantial offers to Anderson. Probably more teams will. i have no doubt about that, They'll set his market value, and we'll match.

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I believe you without checking myself, but I thought poison pills were outlawed earlier, after Hutchinson had a poison pill in his contract that said he'd get a $50MM roster bonus for playing more than 1 regular season game within the Washington that year, or it was something ridiculous like that. 

Going off memory, I think that was the issue.  The Pats had an offer ready and there was question whether the poison pill would get it tossed.  That is why they threw in an extra 7th when he was only signed to a 2nd round tender.

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, genot said:

There are very few receivers with the big play ability of Anderson. Receivers who can get open deep on a consistent basis are rare in the league. You keep those players.He's not the complete receiver that a Julius Jones is, or others, So what. Neither was Wesley Walker.

Lol. You have obviously never watched Walker in his prime if you're comparing Anderson to him. Not even in the same universe. Walker was so much more than a guy with speed. We can keep going back and forth on this but I believe Anderson is easily replaceable and you do not. Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

[genot]

1 minute ago, JetFaninMI said:

Lol. You have obviously never watched Walker in his prime if you're comparing Anderson to him. Not even in the same universe. Walker was so much more than a guy with speed. We can keep going back and forth on this but I believe Anderson is easily replaceable and you do not. Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

With who. How many players in the league now can make plays downfield on a regular basis, like Anderson. Not many. Wal;ker didn't run many routes. The routes he ran made him a treat to score at any time, because of his speed. Im not saying Anderson is as good as Walker. I think he has a chance to be now, with a quality QB, and an improved line.

[varjet]

7 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Lol. You have obviously never watched Walker in his prime if you're comparing Anderson to him. Not even in the same universe. Walker was so much more than a guy with speed. We can keep going back and forth on this but I believe Anderson is easily replaceable and you do not. Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

Anderson is an enigma.    I agree that even a 1st round tender was a good price for him.  If the Jets had drafted Smith-Shuster, maybe we think differently.    He is perfect for the Jets this year even at the higher price.  I can't see him on the team next year.  Let's enjoy him this year.  

[rayzor]

It's funny.  40% of fans in a poll wanted him traded for a 4th rounder last season before the trade deadline.  If they upped it to a 3rd rounder, fans would've been ecstatic and everyone would've been on board.  Fast forward 5 games later, people are saying a 2nd isn't enough and should be a 1st.  Yes, Robby did develop better rapport with Sam near the end of the season but just wondering if things have changed that drastically.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, rayzor said:

It's funny.  40% of fans wanted him traded for a 4th rounder last season before the trade deadline.  If they upped it to a 3rd rounder, fans would've been ecstatic and everyone would've been on board.  Fast forward 5 games later, people are saying a 2nd isn't enough and should be a 1st.  Yes, Robby did develop better rapport with Sam near the end of the season but just wondering if things have changed that drastically.

They wanted him traded, because of the off the field issues. I hope that was the reason.He had close to 1,000 receiving yards with Mccown and Petty as his QB's.

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

They wanted him traded, because of the off the field issues. I hope that was the reason.He had close to 1,000 receiving yards with Mccown and Petty as his QB's.

He was the only NY Jets WR we had no one else. Kease 800 yards Kerley 280 

[Barry McCockinner]

11 minutes ago, rayzor said:

It's funny.  40% of fans wanted him traded for a 4th rounder last season before the trade deadline.  If they upped it to a 3rd rounder, fans would've been ecstatic and everyone would've been on board.  Fast forward 5 games later, people are saying a 2nd isn't enough and should be a 1st.  Yes, Robby did develop better rapport with Sam near the end of the season but just wondering if things have changed that drastically.

Where are you coming up with this 40% wanted him traded for a 4th? 

[choon328]

50 minutes ago, genot said:

Offenses field more than one receiver at a time. Why wouldn't any coach want a receiver out there who can blow the lid off the defense. It opens things up for the other receivers on short and intermediate routes.

Im not saying they wouldn't want that. It's just that I don't think they would pay a premium for a guy who plays a certain role that has never been a primary role in a Gase offense

[genot]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

He was the only NY Jets WR we had no one else. 

Kearse also had close to 1,000 yd's. Pretty shocking considering how bad he was last year.

[rayzor]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Where are you coming up with this 40% wanted him traded for a 4th? 

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, rayzor said:

40% of people who responded to GangGreenNation.com poll is a more accurate description than 40% of Jets fans.

[genot]

1 minute ago, choon328 said:

Im not saying they wouldn't want that. It's just that I don't think they would pay a premium for a guy who plays a certain role that has never been a primary role in a Gase offense

Gase has said, they're going to have Anderson do more things in the offense. Some people assume that Anderson can only run deep routes. Maybe that's not true. He began to show us a little more at the end of the year. Let's see

[rayzor]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

40% of people who responded to GangGreenNation.com poll is a more accurate description than 40% of Jets fans.

You're right.  But do you think a poll of all Jet fans at the time would've been that far off?  As i mentioned, he had half the catches at that point from the previous season as well.

[PepPep]

20 hours ago, rayzor said:

That sounds about right.  No need to pay him on a 1st Round Tender.  I'd be surprised if anyone offers a 2nd.  Either way, we can match any offer if we want to.

I disagree. I think someone will make him an offer real quick. 

[PepPep]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

Gase has said, they're going to have Anderson do more things in the offense. Some people assume that Anderson can only run deep routes. Maybe that's not true. He began to show us a little more at the end of the year. Let's see

If anybody watched the tail end of the season last year, Robby ran all kinds of routes and did so successfully making multiple difficult catches. He is not a one trick pony. I think his off-field issues are the biggest red flag and the reason the Jets are dangling him out there for a second rounder. 

[choon328]

52 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, you're wrong. You're conflating dead cap this year alone with total cap hits overall. @jason423 would confirm this quite easily. They dump Brown and they save $14MM. Nothing above says otherwise unless you believe the NFL will cease to exist after 2019. 

If they avoid paying another $14MM in salary+bonus then they save $14MM off their cap. Anything else is just when it's hit. His $14MM amortized bonus would accelerate to hit earlier, but they could (and would) renegotiate with others to offset it and make the net the same this year and beyond. Same amount paid out to those players they're keeping, still pay out zero to Brown, and save $14MM overall.

I was looking at another cap site at that time that incorrectly said his amortized bonus amount is $3.8MM but it makes no difference since the premise is unchanged.

If $14MM from past bonus paid was going to hit later, and would instead hit now, then they can renegotiate other so theirs will hit later instead of now. The net is the same. Move $14MM of Brown's SB hits from 2020-2021 to 2019; move $14MM of others' hits from 2019 to 2020-2021. Those players' hits would be higher later on, but Brown's $14MM from past bonus would be fully off the books and therefore wouldn't hit later along with them, so it'd even out dollar for dollar. The Steelers do it constantly. 

They clear the amount of money they would avoid paying. 

Ok i see what you're saying. You're talking about his money coming off future years. I get that. I was strictly talking about this year where there would be no cap relief. But yes there would be substantial cap relief after this year. That being said Smith-Schuster will be looking for a top of the market contract after next year. So potentially they'll be swapping Brown's contract with Smith-Schuster's new contract. 

Also, keep in mind that you can not move previous signing bonus money around. If you have a guy whose bonus is getting paid out $4 million each year you can not move that money around at all. It has to be paid out evenly over the life of the contract up to 5 years. The only time that signing bonus money moves is when that player is released or traded and it gets accelerated to the current year. Otherwise teams can not touch that.

What teams do all the time is turn a players base salary into a signing bonus, like the Steelers did with Brown prior to this season, that way they can spread that money out over the life of the contract and create cap space like that. The Steelers already did that this off-season with David DeCastro and Stephon Tuitt creating an additional $13 million in cap room for 2019. They still only have $18 million in cap space after all of that. 

Like I said above, the only relief they will get is from removing Brown's base salary from the cap in 2020 & 2021. But that will be short lived.

[choon328]

18 minutes ago, genot said:

Gase has said, they're going to have Anderson do more things in the offense. Some people assume that Anderson can only run deep routes. Maybe that's not true. He began to show us a little more at the end of the year. Let's see

They may have plans on that. They may also be publicly talking him up with an eye on trading him. This is the lying season and in my opinion if they were dead set on him being back next year they would have spent the extra $1.3 million to guard against a team offering him a contract. I think there are plenty of teams who value his skillset a lot more and have a need that would give up a 2nd including the Bills, Cardinals, Raiders, Broncos, Colts, Jaguars, Titans and Redskins. I think it's pretty possible someone does sign him bc of the lack of speed options in FA and the unknown of the draft.

[Barry McCockinner]

33 minutes ago, rayzor said:

You're right.  But do you think a poll of all Jet fans at the time would've been that far off?  As i mentioned, he had half the catches at that point from the previous season as well.

I don't know, hard to say. I was just curious since I'd never seen that poll. Anderson and Darnold seemed to have good chemistry at the end of the season. I'd hate to see our young franchise QB lose his deep threat that he's comfortable with so we can draft some guy who may never even see the field.

[Jet_Engine1]

16 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Yeah that sounds great. Roger Saffold can become our new deep threat.

He has deceptive speed

[peebag]

55 minutes ago, rayzor said:

It's funny.  40% of fans in a poll wanted him traded for a 4th rounder last season before the trade deadline.  If they upped it to a 3rd rounder, fans would've been ecstatic and everyone would've been on board.  Fast forward 5 games later, people are saying a 2nd isn't enough and should be a 1st.  Yes, Robby did develop better rapport with Sam near the end of the season but just wondering if things have changed that drastically.

Because we have holes in the roster larger than the Grand Canyon.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Ok i see what you're saying. You're talking about his money coming off future years. I get that. I was strictly talking about this year where there would be no cap relief. But yes there would be substantial cap relief after this year. That being said Smith-Schuster will be looking for a top of the market contract after next year. So potentially they'll be swapping Brown's contract with Smith-Schuster's new contract. 

Also, keep in mind that you can not move previous signing bonus money around. If you have a guy whose bonus is getting paid out $4 million each year you can not move that money around at all. It has to be paid out evenly over the life of the contract up to 5 years. The only time that signing bonus money moves is when that player is released or traded and it gets accelerated to the current year. Otherwise teams can not touch that.

What teams do all the time is turn a players base salary into a signing bonus, like the Steelers did with Brown prior to this season, that way they can spread that money out over the life of the contract and create cap space like that. The Steelers already did that this off-season with David DeCastro and Stephon Tuitt creating an additional $13 million in cap room for 2019. They still only have $18 million in cap space after all of that. 

Like I said above, the only relief they will get is from removing Brown's base salary from the cap in 2020 & 2021. But that will be short lived.

There is only one real way of looking at it, unless you're a GM or beat writer trying to rationalize keeping a player because "it would only save $1MM" or something. They all know the NFL doesn't have a hard cap, other than an occasional assessment of minimum cash spend, and that money that accelerates to this year clears an equal amount thereafter, leaving more space to restructure others.

If/when Pittsburgh cuts ties with Brown they will obviously restructure someone else so that everybody's cap hits aren't high in 2019 and low in 2020. While technically it adds $14MM this year but subtracts $14MM later, the reality is it's not going to happen that way and then sit on their hands. They'll find another $14MM (or less if they need less) to move from 2019's spreadsheet to 2020-21's, where Brown's $14MM would have originally hit later on. It's neither better nor worse if it's Brown that hits 21+0+0 or 7+7+7 it's still the same total. So if the goal was to move that $14MM back to the future, dollar for dollar, you move 14 of others' hits from this year to 2020, and then in 2020 move 7 of that 14 to 2021. Then it's back to 7+7+7. The only difference is whose name the $7MM/year is attached to.

So therefore, as I said from the top, they get cap relief from paying Brown. Anything they don't pay him is cap relief that they can then spend on someone else. That they would need to do some easy maneuvering to re-spread $14MM out after cutting/trading him is barely worth mentioning. 

[genot]

14 minutes ago, choon328 said:

They may have plans on that. They may also be publicly talking him up with an eye on trading him. This is the lying season and in my opinion if they were dead set on him being back next year they would have spent the extra $1.3 million to guard against a team offering him a contract. I think there are plenty of teams who value his skillset a lot more and have a need that would give up a 2nd including the Bills, Cardinals, Raiders, Broncos, Colts, Jaguars, Titans and Redskins. I think it's pretty possible someone does sign him bc of the lack of speed options in FA and the unknown of the draft.

I hope your wrong. Who's his replacement???It's a huge gamble on the part of the Jet's. Darnold was involved in the coaching search. I'm sure he'd be begging the Jets to keep Anderson. Someone he was developing good chemistry with.

[UnitedWhofans]

20 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Welp, I think most of us called this one. I really hope this isn't how the Jets recoup their 2nd rd pick this year. 

How would you feel if the Jets ended up letting Robby go for a 2nd?

Costello thinks nobody’s going for it

[#27TheDominator]

There are probably very few posters here that like Anderson more than I do.  I am as critical of Maccagnan as anybody. Well, I guess that is not true anymore, but I have been critical as long as anyone and I remain extremely skeptical of his ability as GM.  That being said, I think this is the right move and has been a foregone conclusion since around mid-season.  I believe 100% that Anderson will be on the Jets next year.   

[genot]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

There are probably very few posters here that like Anderson more than I do.  I am as critical of Maccagnan as anybody. Well, I guess that is not true anymore, but I have been critical as long as anyone and I remain extremely skeptical of his ability as GM.  That being said, I think this is the right move and has been a foregone conclusion since around mid-season.  I believe 100% that Anderson will be on the Jets next year.   

Agree 100%. They're gauging his market value. Will match any offer sheet. What concerns me, is some team, with big money to spend, in hopes of a playoff run, offering up more than what he's worth. We'll see