Jets Place 2nd Round Tender on Anderson

[choon328]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There is only one real way of looking at it, unless you're a GM or beat writer trying to rationalize keeping a player because "it would only save $1MM" or something. They all know the NFL doesn't have a hard cap, other than an occasional assessment of minimum cash spend, and that money that accelerates to this year clears an equal amount thereafter, leaving more space to restructure others.

If/when Pittsburgh cuts ties with Brown they will obviously restructure someone else so that everybody's cap hits aren't high in 2019 and low in 2020. While technically it adds $14MM this year but subtracts $14MM later, the reality is it's not going to happen that way and then sit on their hands. They'll find another $14MM (or less if they need less) to move from 2019's spreadsheet to 2020-21's, where Brown's $14MM would have originally hit later on. It's neither better nor worse if it's Brown that hits 21+0+0 or 7+7+7 it's still the same total. So if the goal was to move that $14MM back to the future, dollar for dollar, you move 14 of others' hits from this year to 2020, and then in 2020 move 7 of that 14 to 2021. Then it's back to 7+7+7. The only difference is whose name the $7MM/year is attached to.

So therefore, as I said from the top, they get cap relief from paying Brown. Anything they don't pay him is cap relief that they can then spend on someone else. That they would need to do some easy maneuvering to re-spread $14MM out after cutting/trading him is barely worth mentioning. 

This is my last reply. The basis of why I replied to you originally was bc you said they would get cap relief by trading him. I said that they would get no cap relief in 2019 in the one singular move of trading him. And that is true even though you said I was wrong. And then I showed you proof of why I was right and you sent a long reply about how they could move money around. But that had nothing to do with what my original reply was about.

 

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, rayzor said:

It's funny.  40% of fans in a poll wanted him traded for a 4th rounder last season before the trade deadline.  If they upped it to a 3rd rounder, fans would've been ecstatic and everyone would've been on board.  Fast forward 5 games later, people are saying a 2nd isn't enough and should be a 1st.  Yes, Robby did develop better rapport with Sam near the end of the season but just wondering if things have changed that drastically.

I certainly was not one of those. Anderson is quite underrated by the Jets fan base. Anderson should have been give a 4 year contract that was a essentially a one year deal if he screws up (which I dont think he will)

2nd round tender is only acceptable if we keep him regardless.

[#27TheDominator]

I actually think that Anderson was probably overrated by many Jets fans at the end of 2017.  Then he got arrested, had a historical quote at a traffic stop, and fumbled a couple of times early in the year.  Suddenly, everybody forgot that he was the closest thing to an offensive weapon on the team.

[choon328]

21 minutes ago, genot said:

I hope your wrong. Who's his replacement???It's a huge gamble on the part of the Jet's. Darnold was involved in the coaching search. I'm sure he'd be begging the Jets to keep Anderson. Someone he was developing good chemistry with.

His replacement would be the slot guy you bring in to be the focal point of the WR unit. Someone like Humphries. Hes a better overall WR than Anderson in my opinion. Humphries had better stats last year even with Mike Evans catching 86 balls for 1500 yards than Anderson has had in his career. Then go get me a cheap veteran like John Brown who has a similar skillset to Anderson and he'll provide the same thing you want out of Anderson for much cheaper and less of a commitment. Then add in that 2nd round pick that could go to creating more depth on the offensive line.

[14 in Green]

58 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

He has deceptive speed

One trick pony though.

[genot]

16 minutes ago, choon328 said:

His replacement would be the slot guy you bring in to be the focal point of the WR unit. Someone like Humphries. Hes a better overall WR than Anderson in my opinion. Humphries had better stats last year even with Mike Evans catching 86 balls for 1500 yards than Anderson has had in his career. Then go get me a cheap veteran like John Brown who has a similar skillset to Anderson and he'll provide the same thing you want out of Anderson for much cheaper and less of a commitment. Then add in that 2nd round pick that could go to creating more depth on the offensive line.

We've seen the best from Humphries and Brown. I don't think we have with Anderson. It was a sh.. show at QB last year for like 8 games. MCcown for 3  games, and Darnold having some major growing pains we're he couldn't get the ball to anybody.

[JetFaninMI]

2 hours ago, genot said:

With who. How many players in the league now can make plays downfield on a regular basis, like Anderson. Not many. Wal;ker didn't run many routes. The routes he ran made him a treat to score at any time, because of his speed. Im not saying Anderson is as good as Walker. I think he has a chance to be now, with a quality QB, and an improved line.

Dude if they get a 2nd for Robbie you take it and run. If not fine. I just don't think as highly of him as you do. Deal with it and move on.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Dude if they get a 2nd for Robbie you take it and run. If not fine. I just don't think as highly of him as you do. Deal with it and move on.

The Jets won't take it. they'll match the offer. Which, of course is the correct thing to do.

[Sperm Edwards]

49 minutes ago, choon328 said:

This is my last reply. The basis of why I replied to you originally was bc you said they would get cap relief by trading him. I said that they would get no cap relief in 2019 in the one singular move of trading him. And that is true even though you said I was wrong. And then I showed you proof of why I was right and you sent a long reply about how they could move money around. But that had nothing to do with what my original reply was about.

 

Then don't reply.

They would get cap relief by trading him, to the tune of $14MM. 

They would only cease to get it if they did something they would never do: move his accelerated $14MM to 2019 and leave everything else alone.

An analogy would be that it would remain dark forever starting tonight...if the world stopped spinning. The world will not stop spinning therefore it will not remain dark forever. Similarly, if Pittsburgh trades Brown in the coming weeks, they will get a net $14MM in cap relief. They will not absorb that and leave others' high cap hits in 2019, so just as in the "if the world stopped spinning" analogy, it is folly to propose that as the end result.

Since the NFL doesn't have a hard cap, where unused dollars can be pushed to next year, and teams can pay money today and not have it hit until future years, looking at an accelerated cap hit and leaving it at that is a pointless point to make. In doing so, you're leaving off the $14MM in net cap gain in future amortized signing bonus hits that will no longer hit in 2020+ on top of the $14MM gain from not paying him his 2019 salary/roster bonus, makes "they don't save anything in 2019" a pointless point to make.

They save cap space by trading him.

[JetFaninMI]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

The Jets won't take it. they'll match the offer. Which, of course is the correct thing to do.

Lol. So you think Robbie is worth the 10mil plus an offer sheet may average? Now that's funny. Thank God you're not the GM.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, JetFaninMI said:

Lol. So you think Robbie is worth the 10mil plus an offer sheet may average? Now that's funny. Thank God you're not the GM.

Cant wait until the NY Jets finally get a superstar level WR so many can see what we have been missing. 

[shuler82]

Name one second round pick we’ve made in the last 10 years who you’d take over Robbie Anderson. 

[choon328]

16 minutes ago, genot said:

We've seen the best from Humphries and Brown. I don't think we have with Anderson. It was a sh.. show at QB last year for like 8 games. MCcown for 3  games, and Darnold having some major growing pains we're he couldn't get the ball to anybody.

Humphries has improved every year and he's only 25. He's actually a month younger than Anderson. To say that you've seen the best from him is beyond ridiculous. 

And John Brown was on pace for 60 rec and 1068 yards last year before Lamar Jackson took over and they stopped throwing the ball. 

Robby Anderson will never be a #1 WR. That's a fact. His skillset is very limited and he's been in the league for 3 years now and he hasn't gotten any better. He's basically Tyrell Williams. He is living off of 2 very good games late in the season. Other then that he averaged 3 rec and 48 yards for the rest of the games. And what people forget is that he once again disappeared in the last game against NE. Shocker. Any team willing to give up a 2nd for him I'd take it and run without giving it a second thought.

[JetFaninMI]

1 minute ago, shuler82 said:

Name one second round pick we’ve made in the last 10 years who you’d take over Robbie Anderson. 

How is this even relevant? Anderson was a UDFA and Macc couldn't pick his nose successfully.

[rayzor]

18 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Name one second round pick we’ve made in the last 10 years who you’d take over Robbie Anderson. 

That wouldn't be a good comparison.  You would have to take a look at all WR's taken in the 2nd round.  I suppose for every Boldin, Jordy Nelson, Alshon, Tate, Cobb or DeSean, you could wind up with Stephen Hill. 

[choon328]

28 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Then don't reply.

They would get cap relief by trading him, to the tune of $14MM. 

They would only cease to get it if they did something they would never do: move his accelerated $14MM to 2019 and leave everything else alone.

An analogy would be that it would remain dark forever starting tonight...if the world stopped spinning. The world will not stop spinning therefore it will not remain dark forever. Similarly, if Pittsburgh trades Brown in the coming weeks, they will get a net $14MM in cap relief. They will not absorb that and leave others' high cap hits in 2019, so just as in the "if the world stopped spinning" analogy, it is folly to propose that as the end result.

Since the NFL doesn't have a hard cap, where unused dollars can be pushed to next year, and teams can pay money today and not have it hit until future years, looking at an accelerated cap hit and leaving it at that is a pointless point to make. In doing so, you're leaving off the $14MM in net cap gain in future amortized signing bonus hits that will no longer hit in 2020+ on top of the $14MM gain from not paying him his 2019 salary/roster bonus, makes "they don't save anything in 2019" a pointless point to make.

They save cap space by trading him.

No they don't. Yes the other team takes on the base salary but his signing bonus that is currently being spread out over his remaining years gets accelerated to this years cap. That is an NFL rule. Which replaces the savings they got from his base salary. They get NO CAP SAVINGS IN 2019 by trading him. They can make other moves to create space for this season and they already have to the tune of $13 million. Which is what you keep arguing for some reason even though I'm only talking about the act of trading him specifically and only the 2019 season. Read this part carefully:

As a SINGULAR move trading Brown saves them no cap space in 2019. Jason says the same thing in his write up. Unless you think he's wrong too.

And go look at their roster. They have no other players on long enough deals to create any more significant cap space for 2019. They have about $18 million in cap space after restructuring 2 contracts and only $12 million after their 2019 draft picks are signed. 

And for the record I responded bc you have reading comprehension issues apparently.

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, choon328 said:

No they don't. Yes the other team takes on the base salary but his signing bonus that is currently being spread out over his remaining years gets accelerated to this years cap. That is an NFL rule. Which replaces the savings they got from his base salary. They get NO CAP SAVINGS IN 2019 by trading him. They can make other moves to create space for this season and they already have to the tune of $13 million. Which is what you keep arguing for some reason even though I'm only talking about the act of trading him specifically and only the 2019 season. Read this part carefully:

As a SINGULAR move trading Brown saves them no cap space in 2019. Jason says the same thing in his write up. Unless you think he's wrong too.

And go look at their roster. They have no other players on long enough deals to create any more significant cap space for 2019. They have about $18 million in cap space after restructuring 2 contracts and only $12 million after their 2019 draft picks are signed. 

And for the record I responded bc you have reading comprehension issues apparently.

They save money by not paying him more money. I don't know how to explain this any more ways. Jason doesn't say they lose money; he says his cap number will be higher this year IF they leave it alone, but I know him well enough to know he wouldn't dare guess they'd do this. 

Pick any players who will still be there in 2020. Get it out of your head that "But OMG then that player's cap number will be so high next year," because it's a shell game. Yes it'll be higher, but Brown's will be zero. So it doesn't matter if it's even a player who was just restructured, like Heyward.

Left alone this year, and trading/cutting him a year later instead, they have $35MM in Antonio Brown cap hits. $22MM this year and $14MM next year. Trading him this year makes that $21MM this year and $0 next year. So it doesn't matter if Heyward counts $14MM this year and $13MM next year, or $7MM this year and $20MM next year. Do the same with another player. It doesn't matter which ones, I just picked the first 2; the math will not change.

Now:

2019: Brown $22M, Heyward $14MM, Tuitt $14MM = $50MM

2020: Brown 14MM (cut/trade), Heyward $13MM, Tuitt $14MM = $41MM

~Two weeks from now:

2019: Brown $21MM (trade), Heyward $7MM, Tuitt $7MM = $35MM

2020: Brown $0, Heyward $20MM, Tuitt $21MM = $41MM

Net:

2019: the team saves $14-15MM this year's cap

2020: no difference in the cap hit

[MaxAF]

I think Anderson hasn’t reached his ceiling yet. His strength obviously is the deep ball threat. Bates tried to make him more versatile last year with routes over the middle and a few end of round runs which may have worked with better blocking. He has a small stature and weak arms as we saw the ball just taken away from him at will last year. He needs to get in the gym and pack some muscle on. With a better receiver core and better blocking he may draw a deep ball double team that will open up more over the middle and out patterns for other receivers. We know he can fly and catch the deep ball. By the sound of the Jet voices, they seem to be interested in another TE. Dual TE sets will be good for blocking and opening up the deep ball threat. I’m not sure Robbie will be much more than a post and out receiver but with other weapons it could complement his strengths.

[UntouchableCrew]

Personally I think Robby is a stud who has been productive under bad offensive minds with mediocre to bad QB play. He has size, speed, and great ball skills. My only concern with him is off field stuff -- legal issues and immaturity. But on the field? We have tons of cap room and I have zero faith in Maccagnan to make the most of the draft capital. I want him here. Take Robby and Quincy and add a slot receiver and suddenly I think we have a pretty good WR corps.

[NoBowles]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A high 2nd and a low 2nd aren't the same thing. The latter isn't that much, especially if it's a playoff team that feels a ready-now WR is more valuable to them than a maybe-prospect.

I don't think teams make that calculation that you think. When trading for a player they covet, in order to extend him, the player typically gets no less than market rate. Look how much Chicago surrendered for Mack; it didn't in any way affect how high the contract was. Ditto when NE picked up Welker as some bring up; it was a trade, but they didn't just give up a 2nd rounder: they also paid what was then seen as an above market rate contract. 

If a team is willing to surrender a 2nd rounder for him then they want him. The very point about a 1st rounder is the one I made myself. I never said we'd get a 1st rounder for him; the entire point is no one would pay that, allowing the team to enjoy exclusive negotiating rights with a player who desperately wants an extension right now. 

I think your difference of opinion with mine stems more from your opinion that, should the Jets decide not to match an offer from a playoff team with a lower pick slot, it'd be no real loss at all. 

I just don't think Anderson is that great, or even that good. He's fast, but he is 150lbs soaking wet, and doesnt run very good routes, and drops the ball. Don't get me wrong, I like having him on the team, but to me he just isn't worth a lot of capital, particularly when you throw in the off the field stuff. I do agree there is a difference between a high 2nd and a low 2nd, but personally I would be fine with either, IF, the contract is more than Anderson is worth.  I also think if you tender him a first, you are treating him like a true WR1, which he isn't. This may or may not drive up his value in a contract negation. 

[Dcat]

37 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

How is this even relevant? Anderson was a UDFA and Macc couldn't pick his nose successfully.

Where is Joe Walton when you need him?

[MaxAF]

2 hours ago, genot said:

Agree 100%. They're gauging his market value. Will match any offer sheet. What concerns me, is some team, with big money to spend, in hopes of a playoff run, offering up more than what he's worth. We'll see

They have the option of cutting him loose if some team gets crazy and offers him stupid money.

[GaryM]

Its amazing to me that when free agents with real talent hit the market with a few personal discrepancies people on here want no part of them. If Robby wasn't a Jet they would be saying the same thing..they want no part of a player like that on the Jets. The fact is that its a long-shot that anyone would sign him and give up a 2nd rd pick. If they do its not the end of the world, we can still match the offer or pick up a good receiver in the 2nd round.

[jack48]

On 2/28/2019 at 3:57 PM, slats said:

The difference between the first and second round tenders is $1.3M. A pittance to protect against having to match a bad contract. 

I think the odds of Maccagnan finding a player as good as Anderson in the second round are incredibly low. 

I like the way he catches the ball with his hands away from his body.  He and Sam developed a little something late last year.  if he avoids vehicular homicide DUIs and drug arrests for the rest of the off season I might be encouraged.

[genot]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

Lol. So you think Robbie is worth the 10mil plus an offer sheet may average? Now that's funny. Thank God you're not the GM.

I don't know what the offer will be. They won't pay him what he's not worth. They've just released players, that proves that point. That's why i said in another post, that it's somewhat of a gamble on the Jet's part. Did i post a money figure. no

[Losmeister]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

Dude if they get a 2nd for Robbie you take it and run. If not fine. I just don't think as highly of him as you do. Deal with it and move on.

I don't agree with your assessment of RA, but TOTALLY agree with your approach. I don't actually get where people tryda convince you to have THEIR opinion. 

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

and drops the ball

you dont apparently know WTF you are talking about

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2018&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=4

2 drops

[genot]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

Humphries has improved every year and he's only 25. He's actually a month younger than Anderson. To say that you've seen the best from him is beyond ridiculous. 

And John Brown was on pace for 60 rec and 1068 yards last year before Lamar Jackson took over and they stopped throwing the ball. 

Robby Anderson will never be a #1 WR. That's a fact. His skillset is very limited and he's been in the league for 3 years now and he hasn't gotten any better. He's basically Tyrell Williams. He is living off of 2 very good games late in the season. Other then that he averaged 3 rec and 48 yards for the rest of the games. And what people forget is that he once again disappeared in the last game against NE. Shocker. Any team willing to give up a 2nd for him I'd take it and run without giving it a second thought.

Quarterback has everything to do with that. It's ridiculous for you to say otherwise. Have you watched any jets games the last two years???If Mccown had stayed healthy, Anderson would have had well over a thousand yards receiving. When Darnold played well, with confidence, Anderson's production went way up. Humphries is a different kind of player. look at their averages per catch. Both of those players are valuable to a QB. Im sorry, i forgot that meaningless game against NE. Did anybody show up to play that game. As mediocre as Anderson was according to you. he had more TD's than Humphries

[DoubleDown]

Put yourself in the shoes of another team. Do you give up a 2nd round pick for Robbie Anderson in 2019, or do you wait it out 1 year and potentially give up nothing when he becomes an unrestricted FA?

I continue to believe it's unlikely any teams signs him to an offer sheet. He doesn't have the production to back up that type of investment and he has off the field issues to boot. I don't think he's nearly as coveted a weapon as some people here seem to think.

He's had three years to prove himself. Did he have the best quarterback play to help him succeed? No, but he also played in a lot of games where he was a main target and his team was playing from behind for much of the game. Players in these types of situations usually have inflated not deflated stats.

He's a nice role player but nothing special. He does one thing very well, and he's JAG level at best everywhere else.

[JetFaninMI]

3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

I don't agree with your assessment of RA, but TOTALLY agree with your approach. I don't actually get where people tryda convince you to have THEIR opinion. 

Well it seems some people think their opinion is fact as evidenced by the back and forth. Thanks for your input though. It's rare when people can have differences but maintain a level of respect for each other. Especially on these boards recently.

[JetFaninMI]

3 hours ago, genot said:

I don't know what the offer will be. They won't pay him what he's not worth. They've just released players, that proves that point. That's why i said in another post, that it's somewhat of a gamble on the Jet's part. Did i post a money figure. no

WTF does releasing players prove? The guys they released were on the defensive side of the ball. They will have to replace those guys. They also have to rebuild the OL. Our skill players mostly suck as the team going 9-23 the last two years proves and your boy Anderson was a big part of that. Sorry but you're being shortsighted when it comes to your blind allegiance to RA just because he wears the Green & White. Anderon is weak over the middle and can't make a contested catch to save his life. Sorry but Robbie"weak hands" Anderson is a JAG. If you were objective you would realize that.

[Freemanm]

On 2/28/2019 at 3:26 PM, JetFreak89 said:

Per Manish

 

What exactly does this mean? CAn other teams still try to poach him with more $$?

[genot]

3 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

WTF does releasing players prove? The guys they released were on the defensive side of the ball. They will have to replace those guys. They also have to rebuild the OL. Our skill players mostly suck as the team going 9-23 the last two years proves and your boy Anderson was a big part of that. Sorry but you're being shortsighted when it comes to your blind allegiance to RA just because he wears the Green & White. Anderon is weak over the middle and can't make a contested catch to save his life. Sorry but Robbie"weak hands" Anderson is a JAG. If you were objective you would realize that.

I see it differently. Im not trying to change your opinion, or anything. To even partially blame Anderson for the Jets record, kinda gives a hint that it's more than just football related. Your opinion of Anderson, that is.

[JetFaninMI]

35 minutes ago, genot said:

I see it differently. Im not trying to change your opinion, or anything. To even partially blame Anderson for the Jets record, kinda gives a hint that it's more than just football related. Your opinion of Anderson, that is.

You have to be kidding me. The guy regressed this year and the team won one less game and Anderson had no part in it? He is as much to blame as anyone else on the team. You giving him a pass and making bullsh*t insinuations only proves your lack of objectivity. You know you have no leg to stand on in your argument so you make a ridiculous comment to take the onus off your weak argument. Psych 101. Try better next time.

 

 

[genot]

5 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

You have to be kidding me. The guy regressed this year and the team won one less game and Anderson had no part in it? He is as much to blame as anyone else on the team. You giving him a pass and making bullsh*t insinuations only proves your lack of objectivity. You know you have no leg to stand on in your argument so you make a ridiculous comment to take the onus off your weak argument. Psych 101. Try better next time.

 

 

You must be kidding ME. Don't deny the obvious. Darnold had a bunch of games where he struggled to find open receivers. Including Anderson. That's why he was benched. Hope you don't believe the line that he was too hurt to play. When Darnold played well, Anderson played well. It's all about the Quarterback. I'm not into attacking people. You are. That's fine. I stand by what i've said. I'm not objective. I think Anderson is an elite deep threat receiver in the league. I'm glad we have him. When defense's play their safeties deep to protect against big plays downfield, that open things up for other receivers. Football 101