Gase presser/his deep love for Leveon

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

If Bell goes 1,000+/80+/10+ - what type of monies is he worth? 

Not the $13.5M he'd be due in 2021 or $15M he'd be due in 2022.  No RB is worth that much at age 29.

RB6 and RB7 (Kenyan Drake and Melvin Gordon) in terms of pay make $8-8.5M.  RB5 (Derrick Henry) makes $12.5M.  I'd like to split the difference there.  Somewhere betwen $9-10M sounds about right to me.

[JiFtheOracle]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not the $13.5M he'd be due in 2021 or $15M he'd be due in 2022.  No RB is worth that much at age 29.

RB6 and RB7 (Kenyan Drake and Melvin Gordon) in terms of pay make $8-8.5M.  RB5 (Derrick Henry) makes $12.5M.  I'd like to split the difference there.  Somewhere betwen $9-10M sounds about right to me.

Fair enough.  Obviously if you can restructure, you do it but I'm not worried about an extra 3 million.  That's not putting the Jets over the top or holding them back from doing anything in FA.

And it's interesting if this does happen because that was the point of contention in Pittsburgh w/ Bell.  He had more receptions than most "#1" WR's in the league, in addition to his ground game but they only wanted to give him RB money.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Fair enough.  Obviously if you can restructure, you do it but I'm not worried about an extra 3 million.  That's not putting the Jets over the top or holding them back from doing anything in FA.

And it's interesting if this does happen because that was the point of contention in Pittsburgh w/ Bell.  He had more receptions than most "#1" WR's in the league, in addition to his ground game but they only wanted to give him RB money.

 

That's because he'd still taken a lot of hits like a RB, and you have to bake that factor into his value.  1,229 carries over his 5 seasons (62 games - about 20 per game) as a Steeler was a ton.  Just because he was ALSO getting a ton of catches doesn't mean he was a safe bet for longevity.  The offense just ran through him, both through the ground and air.  That's a sh*t-ton of usage and wear and tear.  

It will be very interesting to see how Christian McCaffrey does in the long haul off his huge payday.  A guy with heavy usage like that giving you, say, 7-8 quality seasons could go a long way towards helping other dual threat RBs get paid in a big way.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

That's because he'd still taken a lot of hits like a RB.  1,229 carries over his 5 seasons (62 games - about 20 per game) as a Steeler was a ton.  Just because he was ALSO getting a ton of catches doesn't mean he was a safe bet for longevity.  The offense just ran through him, both through the ground and air.  That's a sh*t-ton of usage and wear and tear.  

Curtis Martin had 1,700 carries after 5 seasons

In season 6 he added 316 carries and 1200 yards

Season 7 he added 333 carries for 1500 yards

Its the player not the carriers, lets see what Bell does this season and then decide.  

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Curtis Martin had 1,700 carries after 5 seasons

In season 6 he added 316 carries and 1200 yards

Season 7 he added 333 carries for 1500 yards

Its the player not the carriers, lets see what Bell does this season and then decide.  

 

Do you think Curtis Martin is the exception or the rule?

How many RBs you can name in the last decade that fit the bill there?  Adrian Peterson, Frank Gore and who else?

[SAR I]

This is Adam Gase taking the heat off Le’Veon Bell. It’s a great coaching move by a great head coach.  If this doesn’t motivate Le’Veon, nothing will.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Do you think Curtis Martin is the exception or the rule?

How many RBs you can name in the last decade that fit the bill there?  Adrian Peterson, Frank Gore and who else?

Point is some can handle the work.  Its not cut and dried that carries for all is their expiration date.

And, agree, Martin was a beast.  Thomas Jones at 31 with 331 carries too.  Led the league with 1400 yards

[Greenbloodblitz]

OP... douchebaggery

[Losmeister]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Telling on yourself here. 1-7 “mattered” because you hated the Gase hire and 1-7 was vindication. 6-2 “didn’t matter” because it didn’t conform to your priors. 

nah.

that's weak. 

season was over at 1-7.

losing those meant meaningless competition in December.

sure, i wanna win every game. and i am glad they won some to close out. but it doesnt have THAT much meaning.

it's good for team building, but not much else.

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, slats said:

First off, I'm not sold on Gase at all. But in my mind the jury's still out. The reason being that Gase has been a head coach for two miserable, poorly run, talent starved organizations. There might be some evidence that he learned something from his time with the fish by the way he managed to hijack the football team here before he ever coached a down. 

I feel very good about Joe Douglas, and I feel that while Joe D isn't married to Gase, he's happy to work with him and help him build a team in their shared vision. That carries a little weight with me. 

And I think we have to say that the Jets defense had much more talent on it than the offense last year. The Jets have been drafting defense for the last decade with virtually ignoring the OL and WR groups, and it became painfully obvious. Gase simply had less to work with than Williams, and then his QB got mono. 

As for the finish last year, I get that it was largely against tomato cans and that their two losses came against previously winless teams. That has to temper a lot of the enthusiasm (*cough* @SAR I *cough*) about that finish, but also I don't think even the most optimistic fans here expected that 1-7 football team to finish 6-2. I don't think fans of the teams the Jets beat thought their team was going to lose to the Jets, either. That was a good head coaching job to keep that team together with their biggest defensive star crying about (not) being traded, and their most expensive acquisition running like his feet were in quicksand. 

Sam and the offense has to take a big jump this year. If they don't, Joe Douglas will have to have some meetings with the owner of the day to discuss what they're going to do at HC and QB going forward. That's what we're looking at. It'll suck if Sam's not the guy, but I won't be upset if they decide that Gase isn't. 

Good post, but here's the thing that impresses me most about Adam Gase:

I don't think any head coach in any sport faced the type of adversity he did last year.  Loser franchise, disrespected job, supposedly weak ownership, supposedly weak roster, broken culture, poisonous locker room, epically bad GM.  Oh, and entitled unforgiving fans with the attention span of a flea and immediate 'win now!' expectations.  And then he loses half his starters.  And then his quarterback gets mono.  And then he loses his backup too.  And with less than a month on the sidelines, a dick beat reporter whips the fans into a frenzy and they're flying planes, calling for his head.

Seriously.  Name another brand new head coach thrown into a cauldron like that.   You can't.  So that's why 6-2 is impressive.  No matter how average the teams we played were, they were still leaps and bounds more talented than what we put out there.  And with a broken team and a broken culture, they by all rights should have packed it in, smoked weed, and threw Adam under the bus to a waiting social media and NYDN just begging them to do so.

And they didn't.  Instead, they won 6 of their last 8 games.

That proves that Adam Gase is a great head coach.  He may not be a good offensive coordinator, but that's not his job.  We needed a great head coach.  I think we found one.

SAR I

[themeangreenkillingmachine]

Fake news. Is OP Manish Mehta?

 

so if Bill Belichick ever admitted he called a bad play or made a bad adjustment, does that mean he is saying that he is a terrible sh*tty coach?

[SAR I]

16 hours ago, Warfish said:

Selective results.

Ignoring the 1-7 results prior to that.  When the results actually mattered.

Most experts had the Jets at 6-10 perfectly healthy.  We finished at 7-9 perfectly decimated.

Run the stats for the last 8 games thanks.

SAR I

[SAR I]

15 hours ago, slimjasi said:

The notion that Gase used Bell particularly poorly last year is pure moonshine. 

The run-blocking last year was beyond atrocious and they threw to him the ball when they actually had an NFL QB out there. 

The other problem was that Bell just didn't have any burst in the second half of the year. Every other running back on the roster looked more explosive. Let's be honest here. 

I don't know why Le'Veon Bell is teflon.  

He had 245 carries.  And no significant runs at all.  Even a high school student behind our bad OL could have done that.  There is no evidence that Bell isn't done as a running back.  He took a year off.  He came back slower and weaker.  His head coach had to coach around him.  Every time Bell had the ball he put us in 2nd and 12 or 3rd and 10. 

Did no one watch the games last year or has this "Hate Adam Gase At All Costs!" narrative gotten so stupid that people think the rest of us are the idiots?

SAR I

[SAR I]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Telling on yourself here. 1-7 “mattered” because you hated the Gase hire and 1-7 was vindication. 6-2 “didn’t matter” because it didn’t conform to your priors. 

The only good thing from last season?

We found a great head coach.  That's his job title.  Head coach.  I don't recall Adam Gase claiming he is an offensive guru.  That's what the offensive coordinator does.

Dowell Loggains and Le'Veon Bell had bad seasons.  Adam Gase had a great season.  You can't name another HC in the NFL or another sport given this much to deal with in his first year.  Not even some Mets manager had it this bad.  

SAR I

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Most experts had the Jets at 6-10 perfectly healthy.  We finished at 7-9 perfectly decimated.

Run the stats for the last 8 games thanks.

SAR I

I've read your copy-paste reply already SAR, thanks.

Unless you think and predict we're going 10-6 or better and Darnold is throwing for 4,000+ or better, all your talk about how "great" we were over that 6-2 doesn't mean jack or poop. 

We don't play an 8 game season, what happens once out of contention in trash time vs. worse teams than us is mostly meaningless, there is no year to year carryover, moral victories are strictly for losers, and Gase is still the owner of four bottom of the league offenses in his four years as an NFL Head Coach no matter how much you orally pleasure him with your words.

Results in 2020 (presuming it gets played) or stfu.  Now.  Not later.  Now.   

 

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Telling on yourself here. 1-7 “mattered” because you hated the Gase hire and 1-7 was vindication. 6-2 “didn’t matter” because it didn’t conform to your priors. 

Results while in contention > results once out of contention

Same way statistics while a game is in contention > statistics once the game is a blowout loss.

Garbage time or Trash time is not a new concept, it's only one Gase believers hate since it applies to all of his "success" in 2019.  he showed nothing in the 1-7 run, when it still mattered, of value or quality.  He was a inept loser losing and looked like a deer in headlights with no idea how do anything else or change anything.

If you feel differently, be my guest.  

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I've read your copy-paste reply already SAR, thanks.

Unless you think and predict we're going 10-6 or better and Darnold is throwing for 4,000+ or better, all your talk about how "great" we were over that 6-2 doesn't mean jack or poop. 

We don't play an 8 game season, what happens once out of contention in trash time vs. worse teams than us is mostly meaningless, there is no year to year carryover, moral victories are strictly for losers, and Gase is still the owner of four bottom of the league offenses in his four years as an NFL Head Coach no matter how much you orally pleasure him with your words.

Results in 2020 (presuming it gets played) or stfu.  Now.  Not later.  Now.   

 

"Copy-paste reply" = Response to a copy/paste hit-piece on a copy/paste thread.  You want me to stop giving the same Gase statements, stop making the same Gase accusations.

6-2 was not so much a reflection of the team but rather its head coach.  The win in 2019 is that we discovered we actually have an adult leading the locker room and one the players and coaches respect.  That's big news for the Jets.  Our HC job is one of the worst jobs in all of sports, we're always getting a bottom-of-the barrel defensive rookie.  It looks like we got it right this time.

SAR I

[SAR I]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Results while in contention > results once out of contention

Results while decimated by injuries judged by a vicious media > results when perfectly healthy judged by a happy media.

No one had the Jets finishing 6-2 in the preseason, and everyone had the Jets finishing 0-8 after 1-7.  

SAR I

[Warfish]

17 minutes ago, SAR I said:

...hit-piece....

Yes, I know, we get it.  Facts = "Hit piece"

Quote

  You want me to stop giving the same Gase statements, stop making the same Gase accusations.

By "accusations" I presume you mean "the complete facts" as opposed to your "well, if you take this one quarter in their best game, and extrapolate it over 16 games, Gase and Darnold are clear cut Coach of the Year and MVP!" arguments?

Quote

6-2 was not so much a reflection of the team but rather its head coach.

So was 1-7.

Complete picture vs. Cherry picking

Quote

The win in 2019 is that we discovered we actually have an adult leading the locker room and one the players and coaches respect.

Then 2020 should be a great, productive, winning season.  No excuses.  But lets be honest, you're already full of excuses, and they'll be more to come I'm sure.  We win 5 games, you'll be declaring it the greatest 5 game season in NFL history and Gase a Coach of the year candidate.

Maybe it's time to stop fapping over 2019, and start having some actual expectations/standards for 2020?

P.S. If you TRULY believed in Gase, you wouldn't care about my doubts, your entire reply would simply be "just watch 2020 and see".

The fact you NEVER say that, never ever reference 2020, says sooooooo much about how little real faith you actually have.

 

[SAR I]

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, I know, we get it.  Facts = "Hit piece"

6-2 finish is a fact.  Most injuries in the NFL is a fact.  The "hits" are from those who refuse to give Adam Gase credit for a job well done.

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

By "accusations" I presume you mean "the complete facts" as opposed to your "well, if you take this one quarter in their best game, and extrapolate it over 16 games, Gase and Darnold are clear cut Coach of the Year and MVP!" arguments?

When Darnold returned from mono and Loggains/Williams were able to coach up their decimated rosters, all the work that Gase did to hold the team together during 1-7 was clear to see.  6-2 was no fluke and it was not a tomato-can layup.  The Jets team put on the field those last 8 games looked nothing like the team they put on the field in August.

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So was 1-7.

Complete picture vs. Cherry picking

By all rights, the Jets should have gone 2-14.  They didn't.  And in Florham Park, that's big news.  So many coaches, so many teams, so much weed, so much quit.  Not this group.  That's good coaching.  That's great coaching, in fact.

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

But lets be honest, you're already full of excuses,

These aren't excuses.  These are reasons.  You just call them 'excuses' because it's convenient. 

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Maybe it's time to stop fapping over 2019, and start having some actual expectations/standards for 2020?

P.S. If you TRULY believed in Gase, you wouldn't care about my doubts, your entire reply would simply be "just watch 2020 and see".

The fact you NEVER say that, never ever reference 2020, says sooooooo much about how little real faith you actually have.

I'm the guy who has us at 10-6 and AFC East champs.  I'm the guy who thinks opening 5-0 is realistic.  You're talking about the wrong guy if you think I'm not bullish on the 2020 Jets.  But no one wants to talk about the 2020 Jets.  They just want to sh-t on our head coach, the one of the only guys that had a strong 2019.

SAR I

 

[Warfish]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

6-2 finish is a fact.

A partial fact.  A cherry picked fact. 

The 1-7 when it mattered then the garbage time 6-2 is the full story.

Quote

Most injuries in the NFL is a fact.

Actually, it's not.  The Redskins had more/worse.

Quote

The "hits" are from those who refuse to give Adam Gase credit for a job well done.

So?  What are you, his wife?

Quote

......Loggains was able to coach up........

Lol.

Quote

6-2 was no fluke

Guess we'll find out in 2020.

Quote

and it was not a tomato-can layup.

Sure it was, the easiest garbage time no pressure 8 game schedule in human history. 

Been posted repeatedly, almost every team in that 6-2 was either worse than us (Giants, Skins, Bengals, Dolphins), more hurt than us (Redskins), in free fall themselves (Raiders, Steelers), playing their #2 or #3 QB (Steelers, Buffalo), and/or resting most of their starters (Buffalo). 

The only good team was Baltimore, and they blew us out by a mile.

Fapp about that list of losers if you like, it'll never ever be as impressive as you think it was.  Which is why no one outside of a small cadre of Jets fans has been talking about it this offseason.

Quote

I'm the guy who has us at 10-6 and AFC East champs.  I'm the guy who thinks opening 5-0 is realistic.  You're talking about the wrong guy if you think I'm not bullish on the 2020 Jets.

Great, we'll see if you're right soon enough. 

If you really believed it tho, you wouldn't care about doubters.

"Just watch 2020", would be all the reply a true believer needs to make.

Quote

But no one wants to talk about the 2020 Jets.

I do.  2020 (and beyond) is what matters.

Lord knows, I'm sick of reading SOJ losers fapping over "6-2! 6-2!" like it's a come from behind Super Bowl win.

Quote

They just want to sh-t on our head coach

Critics are easy to silence, just produce and win. 

Over 16 games, not 8, or 3 or 1.  

Quote

SAR I

FISH II

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Results while in contention > results once out of contention

Same way statistics while a game is in contention > statistics once the game is a blowout loss.

Garbage time or Trash time is not a new concept, it's only one Gase believers hate since it applies to all of his "success" in 2019.  he showed nothing in the 1-7 run, when it still mattered, of value or quality.  He was a inept loser losing and looked like a deer in headlights with no idea how do anything else or change anything.

If you feel differently, be my guest.  

The Jets, at no point last season, regardless of who the coach was, were never “in contention.”

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets, at no point last season, regardless of who the coach was, were never “in contention.”

Exactly the kind of things people say about Great Coaches.

Oh, wait.... 

[Snell41]

He used Bell poorly because there was no good way to use Leveon. Our OL was atrocious and our QB in the first half wasn’t even NFL caliber. You’re running Bell into a brick wall everytime because your chances of Bell breaking through that wall are far greater than Fales getting a good pass off. It was what it was. He improved when Sam returned but the OL was still putrid. Plus again, I don’t know why you expected Bell to be fast or quick, he never was


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[BROOKLYN JET]

Bell said last year "I didn’t have that edge to me anymore, that chip.’’ 

If signing for 50 million dollars wasn't enough for him to retain that edge... What's it gonna take, Jamal Adams money?

[SOJ]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Results while in contention > results once out of contention

Same way statistics while a game is in contention > statistics once the game is a blowout loss.

Garbage time or Trash time is not a new concept, it's only one Gase believers hate since it applies to all of his "success" in 2019.  he showed nothing in the 1-7 run, when it still mattered, of value or quality.  He was a inept loser losing and looked like a deer in headlights with no idea how do anything else or change anything.

If you feel differently, be my guest.  

Thank you and your comments nailed it. your comment regarding his coaching or lack there of at 1-7 is correct.  Frankly, he had no answers, none.  I also agree with the fact that he has has one of the worst O in the league as a HC... that is a fact.  

[Philc1]

Gase sucks and he isn’t the offensive guru he was hyped up as

 

can he opt out?

[shuler82]

I’m pretty sure all the following can be simultaneously true:

1) Our OL last year sucked donkey balls.

2) Gase did a bad job of utilizing Bell’s strengths 

3) Bell has lost some of his burst

If Gase can adjust and get Bell the ball more in space, and the Jets 2020 OL is adequate, Bell will look like a new back.  A $14M back, probably not, but he can still be a playmaker.

 

[Lupz27]

12 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

it's hard to see bell on the jets next year.  the only way i can see it, is if the jets really improve this year, sneak into the playoffs, and then load up on FAs next season and make a real run at it.  this, and if bell plays well this year, then i can see bell sticking around for one real go at it.

I think Bell is thinking the same.  He got his ass in shape 1.  Because he is a proud man.  2.  He knows the Jets can easily move on after this year so he got his ass in shape to make that decision tougher for them, but also in case that’s what they do he puts up another monster year to get one more payday.

[Fantasy Island]

Gase is a joke.

[Jet Nut]

Damn, I was expecting Gase to say that Bell was out of shape, lost a step and sucked.  

And if he did the same people who are complaining in every different way over trying to say that Bell will be more effective this year, would complain that this is the way Gase throws players under the bus.  

[GreenReaper]

I don't have a great deal of confidence that Bell can have a big year.  Just hoping for some decent production in the run game, and continue being effective catching passes.  Of course I hope I'm wrong and he kills it. 

IMO...Perine is a complete back that is solid in pass protection.  Explosive through the hole.  And can effectively release downfield.  I wouldn't  be surprised if he's playing a big role in the offense by the 2nd half of the year.  

What's at stake for Bell?  Have a big year and he can be traded rather then cut.  Which means he can keep his contract and salary status for at least one more year. 

So...regardless of how good a year Bell has...I expect JD to trade him for a pick and/or a player...depending on how productive a year Bell has.  A poor year means Bell simply gets cut. 

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Damn, I was expecting Gase to say that Bell was out of shape, lost a step and sucked.  

And if he did the same people who are complaining in every different way over trying to say that Bell will be more effective this year, would complain that this is the way Gase throws players under the bus.  

Gase's job is to get performance and production out of his players.

If the players do not perform or produce, Gase is responsible.

All the hot air, from Gase, Bell and/or especially Fans, is irrelevant:  Perform/produce, or you're gone. 

That's Pro Sports. 

We're about to start 2020.  The expectation can and should start with "Bell (and Gase) must perform and produce", period.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Gase's job is to get performance and production out of his players.

If the players do not perform or produce, Gase is responsible.

All the hot air, from Gase, Bell and/or especially Fans, is irrelevant:  Perform/produce, or you're gone. 

That's Pro Sports. 

We're about to start 2020.  The expectation can and should start with "Bell (and Gase) must perform and produce", period.

Agree.

But the point also is some actually believe that Gase really meant to say it was his (Gases) fault Bell struggled

Not the Ol, not Bell

Because fans believe there are magic run plays that we didnt run, couldn't recognize the different ways Bell was run, the fact that Gase has had no problems calling run plays for others

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Agree.

But the point also is some actually believe that Gase really meant to say it was his (Gases) fault Bell struggled

Not the Ol, not Bell

Because fans believe there are magic run plays that we didnt run, couldn't recognize the different ways Bell was run, the fact that Gase has had no problems calling run plays for others

There are ways Coaches can play-call around a bad line.  99.9% of us are not sufficiently knowledgeable to be able to say if Gase did or didn't make those adjustments or when.  It's a pointless question anyway, again, produce in 2020.  That should be our mantra.  Not what happened in 2019.