Every Throw From Zach Wilson - Week 15 vs Dolphins

[doitny]

4 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

Watched that clip, because I wasn't able to see the game yesterday. I think that's the best he's looked all season. The first half was nice, and not so much in the second half. The OL completely failed. I do see one thing of concern, and I'd like someone to sit him down and go over that with him. He goes backwards way to often when the line breaks down...

One post was talking about watching #60, which proves my point that we need a true center on this team in the worst way. Someone who knows how to call line protections to the others on the line. McGovern while here, is not really here and those saying he's playing better, is because of DVT, being at RG and not GVR. If we improve our line play, maybe the kid will be able to step up in the pocket like everyone says he needs to do more often.

i dont think its fair to say McG doesnt know how to call line protections. he has been good for most of the season.

i cant imagine the Center can see much in his 3 pt stance especially when they try to hide the blitz. the QB can see it all but i doubt there giving that responsibility to Zack

[Spoot-Face]

Not super impressed with Wilson, outside of one or two plays.

No bueno

[Jetsfan80]

29 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Not super impressed with Wilson, outside of one or two plays.

No bueno

He was supposed to be an exciting QB prospect and instead he's looking like the most boring prospect of all time, with a floor of "one of the worst QB's of all-time".  

J!

[Anthony Jet]

44 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He was supposed to be an exciting QB prospect and instead he's looking like the most boring prospect of all time, with a floor of "one of the worst QB's of all-time".  

J!

This is not wrong. Sucks. But I won’t hammer him to the cross until year 2 

[Spoot-Face]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He was supposed to be an exciting QB prospect and instead he's looking like the most boring prospect of all time, with a floor of "one of the worst QB's of all-time".  

J!

He makes Mark Sanchez look like Josh Allen. 

[rtnelson]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He was supposed to be an exciting QB prospect and instead he's looking like the most boring prospect of all time, with a floor of "one of the worst QB's of all-time".  

J!

"He needs to play more boring! Like HOF Mike White!"

"Missing all his receiving options two weeks in a row against really good defenses he's not perfect at it yet! THIS IS A DISASTER!"

[Irish Jet]

4 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

He's not perfect at it yet!

 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

"He needs to play more boring! Like HOF Mike White!"

"Missing all his receiving options two weeks in a row against really good defenses he's not perfect at it yet! THIS IS A DISASTER!"

He tried being more boring.  He couldn't do what Mike White does.  When Wilson tries to play hero ball, he fails.  When he tries to be a game manager, he also fails.

And your take would be compelling if he didn't also suck with a full complement of weapons earlier in the season.  Stop with the excuses.  We've been through all that with Sam Darnold, who actually had a legitimate gripe (but was still awful). 

The rest of the offense is fine.  It's Wilson that is the problem.  Period.  

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He tried being more boring.  He couldn't do what Mike White does.  When Wilson tries to play hero ball, he fails.  When he tries to be a game manager, he also fails.

And your take would be compelling if he didn't also suck with a full complement of weapons earlier in the season.  Stop with the excuses.  We've been through all that with Sam Darnold, who actually had a legitimate gripe (but was still awful). 

The rest of the offense is fine.  It's Wilson that is the problem.  Period.  

How do you expect him to compete without the great George Fant though.

[FidelioJet]

This whole thread is boring....

 

[rtnelson]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

How do you expect him to compete without the great George Fant though.

"Give the OL credit, they've improved!  But not the highest rated player that was a key part of that improvement!"

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

"Give the OL credit, they've improved!  But not the highest rated player that was a key part of that improvement!"

Remember when Zach Wilson had the best first half of his life yesterday minus the great George Fant?

[rtnelson]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He tried being more boring.  He couldn't do what Mike White does.  When Wilson tries to play hero ball, he fails.  When he tries to be a game manager, he also fails.

And your take would be compelling if he didn't also suck with a full complement of weapons earlier in the season.  Stop with the excuses.  We've been through all that with Sam Darnold, who actually had a legitimate gripe (but was still awful). 

The rest of the offense is fine.  It's Wilson that is the problem.  Period.  

The OL was performing the same as they have been at the start of the season?  Moore took zero time to adjust after missing a lot of camp and all of preseason?  Michael Carter at the start of the season is making the same plays he is now?

This team as a whole has grown a lot since early in the season.  Yes, Wilson has struggled, but he's doing what is being asked of him and is getting better.

Zach was way more raw than most of us thought.  It's clear he is adjusting to the game along with all the other young guys on the team.

It's hard to play hero ball without playmakers.  You seriously think Mahomes is happy if he is trotting out there with the current Jets WR starters?

Don't think I'm saying he's playing great, only that it's been getting better and the offense as a whole isn't great right now.  We couldn't get 2 yards a carry in the second half yesterday and they were getting home quick rushing just 4.  It's hard to imagine any QB succeeding in that situation.

[rtnelson]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Remember when Zach Wilson had the best first half of his life yesterday minus the great George Fant?

You saw no difference in the amount of pressure between halves?

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

You saw no difference in the amount of pressure between halves?

I saw the Dolphin blitz and Zach Wilson melt down.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

The OL was performing the same as they have been at the start of the season?  Moore took zero time to adjust after missing a lot of camp and all of preseason?  Michael Carter at the start of the season is making the same plays he is now?

This team as a whole has grown a lot since early in the season.  Yes, Wilson has struggled, but he's doing what is being asked of him and is getting better.

Zach was way more raw than most of us thought.  It's clear he is adjusting to the game along with all the other young guys on the team.

It's hard to play hero ball without playmakers.  You seriously think Mahomes is happy if he is trotting out there with the current Jets WR starters?

Don't think I'm saying he's playing great, only that it's been getting better and the offense as a whole isn't great right now.  We couldn't get 2 yards a carry in the second half yesterday and they were getting home quick rushing just 4.  It's hard to imagine any QB succeeding in that situation.

 

Offense with any other Jet QB under center:  23.5 points per game

Offense with Wilson under center:  14.6 points per game

 

Until those 2 numbers come a lot closer together, you have no leg to stand on in this argument.  

At some point, you need your # 2 overall pick to play like one, and not to make a laundry list of excuses for why he didn't.  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

You saw no difference in the amount of pressure between halves?

Every week a new excuse. When does he rise above? That is what separates FQBs from the JAGs. I only want to see him have one complete game where he looks like the best player on the Jets offense to allow myself an off season with some degree of hope for the future. Tick, tock.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Offense with any other Jet QB under center:  23.5 points per game

Offense with Wilson under center:  14.6 points per game

 

Until those 2 numbers come a lot closer together, you have no leg to stand on in this argument.  

 

[rtnelson]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Every week a new excuse. When does he rise above? That is what separates FQBs from the JAGs. I only want to see him have one complete game where he looks like the best player on the Jets offense to allow myself an off season with some degree of hope for the future. Tick, tock.

We all want to see that.  But just because we haven't doesn't mean it won't ever happen.

The Saints D just made Tom Brady look like a rookie last night.  But we expect our rookie to rise above with significantly worse supporting cast.

[rtnelson]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

[DetroitRed]

33 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This whole thread is boring....

 

Seriously, go make some money.  Continue the argument this Sunday at 1

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

We all want to see that.  But just because we haven't doesn't mean it won't ever happen.

The Saints D just made Tom Brady look like a rookie last night.  But we expect our rookie to rise above with significantly worse supporting cast.

I can't even be bothered with this one. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, rtnelson said:

Yes, it's a moral failing that I judge a Quarterback on such a silly thing as production. Aren't I a luddite.

[rtnelson]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I can't even be bothered with this one. 

I'm not sure why I even bother with any of this.

[rtnelson]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Yes, it's a moral failing that I judge a Quarterback on such a silly thing as production. Aren't I a luddite.

Meh, It's not immoral to ignore the game and just stare on the box score.  Just odd.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

Meh, It's not immoral to ignore the game and just stare on the box score.  Just odd.

Sadly for my eyeballs, I do watch. Although if I had to choose either the numbers or the game to tell you about a player? I'd choose the numbers every time.

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

I'm not sure why I even bother with any of this.

You just used Brady having a bad game as a defense of Zach. 

Sometimes the other side's case is so bad, you can send it to the jury with confidence without presenting your own.

[rtnelson]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

You just used Brady having a bad game as a defense of Zach. 

Sometimes the other side's case is so bad, you can send it to the jury with confidence without presenting your own.

My bad.  I would think that the skill of the defense would have at least something to do with how well a rookie would do on an offense that is missing every single playmaker.  Especially when that same defense the very next week makes the near unanimously rated "best QB of all time" in the middle of an MVP type season look like a rookie.

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

My bad.  I would think that the skill of the defense would have at least something to do with how well a rookie would do on an offense that is missing every single playmaker.  Especially when that same defense the very next week makes the near unanimously rated "best QB of all time" in the middle of an MVP type season look like a rookie.

OK, now do Zach's other games while kindly accounting for White, Johnson, and Flacco outperforming Wilson.

[Wit]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

OK, now do Zach's other games while kindly accounting for White, Johnson, and Flacco outperforming Wilson.

The thing is that all I’m looking for is him correcting mistakes from the previous weeks. The NO game was depressing because he regressed, but they just shut out the goat, so I don’t feel as bad about it. The kid is improving, and he needs to work in a lot this offseason and come back MUCH better in year two or it’s over for him. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Wit said:

The thing is that all I’m looking for is him correcting mistakes from the previous weeks. The NO game was depressing because he regressed, but they just shut out the goat, so I don’t feel as bad about it. The kid is improving, and he needs to work in a lot this offseason and come back MUCH better in year two or it’s over for him. 

Nice pivot, but I agree and am looking for the same thing.

This is your one "get off easy" card  

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Wit said:

The thing is that all I’m looking for is him correcting mistakes from the previous weeks. The NO game was depressing because he regressed, but they just shut out the goat, so I don’t feel as bad about it. The kid is improving, and he needs to work in a lot this offseason and come back MUCH better in year two or it’s Uber for him. 

Very good post.

I don't think anyone has said he's been good, he mostly hasn't.  He's had moments and he is making progress.  He, absolutely, needs to be much better.  But there are clear signs he's progressing.  That's all we should be looking from a rookie QB.  Particuarly under the current circumstances.

[JustInFudge]

21 hours ago, doitny said:

i think we can take some good stuff from this game. 

not one bouncing ball. not one pass that his receiver had to twist his body to catch. yeah he had 2-3 easy passes he missed, but everyone does.

which is obvious is that Miami changed something at the half because Zach was getting blitzed but got it off quick. they took something away from him and Zach couldnt see it fast enough. plus he has to read the blitz better. he has to see that guy on the edge and know he has no blocker for him, maybe call an audible. i am sure he will get better the more he see this stuff. 

i was wrong for wanting him to sit vs Miami the 1st time. this was an important thing to play through. to see a team blitz as much as they do. these were important reps to learn from. 

Good post.  He was very poised in the 1st half, executing well and he looked very comfortable playing unaspiring placement level QB, which is exactly what you want to see.  It looked like they played more zone and less attack in the 1st half and then dialed it up and played more man in the 2nd.  He didnt respond well but that's fine, most rookies struggle with adjusting to that type of pressure but he didnt wet himself which is encouraging considering the circumstances. 

I would like to know how much of that was on Zach vs. guys missing assignments.  I mentioned this in another thread but I remember Mangold handling the protection audibles for Sanchez.  I wonder if it's on Zach and he's just not recognizing it presnap or are guys just our right missing assignments?  And what is the game plan on the blitz?  He seems to look away from it, rather than throwing at it.  

Your last point is a great one and it's a shame he wont get to see any of the divisional rivals twice. Especially Miami because of the way the disguise their blitz, it would be great to see how much he learned and improved from game 1 to game 2. 

Take the good with the bad, I was expecting to be held from the endzone, so the fact they scored 14 points was surprising.  He also didnt throw a pick, 2 games in a row.  Now it's time to put a whole game together.  2 would be great, but I'll take 1 right now.  Just get some confidence going that he can do this for 4 quarters, I dont care who the opponent is at this point.

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Very good post.

I don't think anyone has said he's been good, he mostly hasn't.  He's had moments and he is making progress.  He, absolutely, needs to be much better.  But there are clear signs he's progressing.  That's all we should be looking from a rookie QB.  Particuarly under the current circumstances.

He has six TD’s in ten starts. All six of those TDs came in three starts, so he’s had seven games where he hasn’t put the ball in the end zone. When we say he’s “improved” because he hasn’t thrown a pick in two games, we also need to acknowledge that he’s not producing much either. It’s like saying an F1 driver has improved because he hasn’t crashed in two races, but leaving out that he’s also driving at a max speed of 45 MPH. 

[rtnelson]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

OK, now do Zach's other games while kindly accounting for White, Johnson, and Flacco outperforming Wilson.

Mike White's RTG this season is 75.1

Since returning from injury Wilson's RTG is 70.55 against better defenses while missing starters.

Josh Johnson was pretty good against the Colts prevent defense.

Flacco played well, but with all the starters put up the same amount of points as Zach did.

The difference isn't as big as people think. 21.6 PPG with Zach out, 18 PPG with Zach back.

Yes, it's different.  But not as big as people think, and the results against the same opponent were identical.  You can say the stats were better with a decade plus starter and superbowl winner at QB with the #1 weapon on the field and I'll agree.  But they scored the same amount of points.

I'm not saying Zach has been great, only that it's not as bad as you seem to think, and it's getting better.

Would you be starting Mike White instead of developing Zach if he were available?  Do you think we should be starting Flacco or should have kept and been starting Josh Johnson over Zach?

Or do you think you keep giving the 22 year old a chance to see new defenses to prepare him better for next year?

Damn this is going to be a long offseason, even if he lights it up to end the year because Darnold played decent at the end of his rookie year.