Lamar trade talks back on the table?

[jetblue95]

56 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Yes, 100% because he by far, no question, without a doubt, is the best option for the Jets.  A 26 year old MVP QB and a top 5 player entire NFL, has never, ever, become available in any scenario in the NFL.   No player in the entire NFL, has a bigger impact on their team than Lamar Jackson.  He is/was the entire Ravens offense.  The Ravens, w/ Lamar, were averaging 26 pts a game, and were 8-4.  W/ out Lamar Jackson, they averaged 16 and never scored more than 17 in a single game and went 3-5.

The moment the Jets sign Lamar Jackson, they're favorite to win the AFCE and right up there w/ the Bengals and Chiefs in terms of expectations ie; Super Bowl, every year.   Which is pretty cool. 

There is risk with all these guys.  Rodgers, very risky, short term returns and he's going to cost money and picks.  Derek Carr?  Extremely risky giving a career loser and the guy who is 2nd in turnovers in the NFL over the last 3 years, a contract, let alone a big one in a cold weather city.  None of them provide the stability that Lamar Jackson would provide.  You're set for the next 10 years w/ Lamar.  It's by far the best move for the Jets, there is no close second. 

 

 

 

so lamar is a top 5 players in the league, yet he's only won 1 playoff game in 5 years on a team that generally has a good overall roster, excellent coaching and a top tier defense?

i don't consider lamar a top 5 QB, let alone a top 5 player in the entire league.  if i were starting a team today, i'd prefer at QB (in no particular order) mahomes, burrow, allen, hurts, herbert, and probably lawrence at a minimum.

now you add he wants a FULLY GUARANTEED contract that probably approaches $50 million per year (for a guy who missed 10 games with injuries the last 2 years and who many suspect bailed on his team last year rather than play through an injury).  and of course, he will cost multiple high draft picks starting with a 1st (if not two 1sts), which when coupled with his contract make building a roster around him all the more difficult.

if jackson were so great, a smart front office and coaching staff like they have in baltimore wouldn't have a problem paying him.  smart nfl teams aren't in the habit of letting 26 year old franchise QBs leave.  given his contractual demands, trade compensation, injury history, terrible playoff record, and overall declining play since his MVP year 4 years ago, i stay far, far, far away from him.  it is by far he WORST move a panicked jets team can make when factoring in cost to acquire (cap and draft pick).

[Ron Rico]

LJ thinks because a sh*t run team like the Browns gave Deshaun Watson the King's ransom, that he's entitled to the same thing. LOL

[jetblue95]

1 hour ago, JiF4Lamar said:

That would be really stupid.  The Jets land a 26 year old MVP, top 5 player in the NFL and quit the team?  lol

you keep saying 26 year old MVP like he won his MVP last year.  it was 2019

in his 2019 MVP year (15 games), he threw for 36 TDs and 6 Ints, while rushing for 1206 yards and 7 TDs

in 2021-2022 combined (24 games*), he threw 33 TDs and 20 Ints, while rushing for 1530 yards and 5 TDs

* - missed 10 games with injury

 

if you tell me the jets are getting the 2019 lamar jackson, then sure, he's probably worth it.  unfortunately, that guy doesn't seem to exist anymore, at least based on his last two injury riddled seasons.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Yes, 100% because he by far, no question, without a doubt, is the best option for the Jets.  A 26 year old MVP QB and a top 5 player entire NFL, has never, ever, become available in any scenario in the NFL.   No player in the entire NFL, has a bigger impact on their team than Lamar Jackson.  He is/was the entire Ravens offense.  The Ravens, w/ Lamar, were averaging 26 pts a game, and were 8-4.  W/ out Lamar Jackson, they averaged 16 and never scored more than 17 in a single game and went 3-5.

The moment the Jets sign Lamar Jackson, they're favorite to win the AFCE and right up there w/ the Bengals and Chiefs in terms of expectations ie; Super Bowl, every year.   Which is pretty cool. 

There is risk with all these guys.  Rodgers, very risky, short term returns and he's going to cost money and picks.  Derek Carr?  Extremely risky giving a career loser and the guy who is 2nd in turnovers in the NFL over the last 3 years, a contract, let alone a big one in a cold weather city.  None of them provide the stability that Lamar Jackson would provide.  You're set for the next 10 years w/ Lamar.  It's by far the best move for the Jets, there is no close second. 

 

 

Lamar has missed 9 of his last 21 games due to injury and is coming off a PCL. Stability?

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

so lamar is a top 5 players in the league, yet he's only won 1 playoff game in 5 years on a team that generally has a good overall roster, excellent coaching and a top tier defense?

i don't consider lamar a top 5 QB, let alone a top 5 player in the entire league.  if i were starting a team today, i'd prefer at QB (in no particular order) mahomes, burrow, allen, hurts, herbert, and probably lawrence at a minimum.

now you add he wants a FULLY GUARANTEED contract that probably approaches $50 million per year (for a guy who missed 10 games with injuries the last 2 years and who many suspect bailed on his team last year rather than play through an injury).  and of course, he will cost multiple high draft picks starting with a 1st (if not two 1sts), which when coupled with his contract make building a roster around him all the more difficult.

if jackson were so great, a smart front office and coaching staff like they have in baltimore wouldn't have a problem paying him.  smart nfl teams aren't in the habit of letting 26 year old franchise QBs leave.  given his contractual demands, trade compensation, injury history, terrible playoff record, and overall declining play since his MVP year 4 years ago, i stay far, far, far away from him.  it is by far he WORST move a panicked jets team can make when factoring in cost to acquire (cap and draft pick).

Just so I'm clear on this logic.  If Baltimore resigns him are they still a great, smart front office and coaching staff or are the Jets mid-Atlantic?  A complete cluster F.    

[Rhg1084]

 

[Rhg1084]

how come I hear all these coaches around the league saying how great Lamar is but fans on jetsnation.com says he sucks?

[JustInFudge]

31 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

You have to take into consideration the amount of 1st round picks it would take acquire Lamar Jackson...quite possibly up to three first-round picks. That's what the Texans got from the Browns for Deshaun Watson. You also have to likely guarantee his entire contract, because that's what he wants. In my opinion, that is NOT the best OPTION for this Jets team. JiF4Lamar will have a smaller run than JiFields.

3 picks would be a tough pill to swallow but I'd probably do it considering once you sign Lamar, you're picking toward the back of the draft anyway because all he does is win.  So you're not giving up typical Jets draft capital in the top 10, etc.  The Ravens typically pick around 25+, so not the same value you're typically losing and besides, it's worth it.  You've watched this team blow how many 1st round picks in your life?  JD looks to have missed on two 1st already and he's only been here 3 years.  Luckily he's had a bunch and looks to have nailed this years but what if he goes back to the trend of missing in the 1st round?  You can always figure out the contract stuff, that's not an issue at all. 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

3 picks would be a tough pill to swallow but I'd probably do it considering once you sign Lamar, you're picking toward the back of the draft anyway because all he does is win.  So you're not giving up typical Jets draft capital in the top 10, etc.  The Ravens typically pick around 25+, so not the same value you're typically losing and besides, it's worth it.  You've watched this team blow how many 1st round picks in your life?  JD looks to have missed on two 1st already and he's only been here 3 years.  Luckily he's had a bunch and looks to have nailed this years but what if he goes back to the trend of missing in the 1st round?  You can always figure out the contract stuff, that's not an issue at all. 

I'd give 4 if it means Joe Douglas doesn't ever has to draft a QB again, Guy is worst evaluator of QB talent ever. That's why Lamar likely not coming here, Joe only likes QB's that stink. 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I'd give 4 if it means Joe Douglas doesn't ever has to draft a QB again, Guy is worst evaluator of QB talent ever. That's why Lamar likely not coming here, Joe only likes QB's that stink. 

Whoa Nellie.

We had a GM pick Hackenberg and Bryce Petty...pair them with Josh McCown.  And then pass on Watson and Mahomes because we were still developing Hackenberg.

I think JD is pretty safe from being the worst.

[Jets723]

46 minutes ago, Biggs said:

JD with his move up for Johnson missed an opportunity to draft 2 terrific centers last year.   Think about that.  A rotational player who was failing like a stone and they came in their pants before they got their fly's down to move up to get him.   

Carr would be great if we could sign him for 1 or 2 years.  4 to 5, which is probably what it's going to take for Carr is a little much for a guy who had a bad year and was cut by a team that thought dumping him with no other viable option was addition by subtraction. 

My problem with Lamar is his injury history and the cap.  He's miles better than Carr on a 4 to 5 year deal even giving up the draft capital.  

Respectfully disagree 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, jetblue95 said:

 

so lamar is a top 5 players in the league, yet he's only won 1 playoff game in 5 years on a team that generally has a good overall roster, excellent coaching and a top tier defense?

i don't consider lamar a top 5 QB, let alone a top 5 player in the entire league.  if i were starting a team today, i'd prefer at QB (in no particular order) mahomes, burrow, allen, hurts, herbert, and probably lawrence at a minimum.

now you add he wants a FULLY GUARANTEED contract that probably approaches $50 million per year (for a guy who missed 10 games with injuries the last 2 years and who many suspect bailed on his team last year rather than play through an injury).  and of course, he will cost multiple high draft picks starting with a 1st (if not two 1sts), which when coupled with his contract make building a roster around him all the more difficult.

if jackson were so great, a smart front office and coaching staff like they have in baltimore wouldn't have a problem paying him.  smart nfl teams aren't in the habit of letting 26 year old franchise QBs leave.  given his contractual demands, trade compensation, injury history, terrible playoff record, and overall declining play since his MVP year 4 years ago, i stay far, far, far away from him.  it is by far he WORST move a panicked jets team can make when factoring in cost to acquire (cap and draft pick).

The playoff argument is not a strong or convincing, no offense.  Plenty of QB's had rough starts to their playoff career and then win later.  It happens, it's called maturity.  Mark Sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs and did it his first 2 seasons.  Mark Sanchez sucked. So meh. And his D's were good but his offensive talent has been absolute trash outside of Mark Andrews.  Lamar is their offense.

I also find it ironic that Herbert is ahead of Jackson on your list yet you're knocking Jackson for his playoff record.  Herbert just made the playoffs for the first time in his career and was part of the biggest choke job in NFL playoff history.  Lawrence is 1-1 and didnt make the playoffs last year but Jackson is not top tier because of his playoff record?  Hmph.

The financials dont matter.  You figure it out.  This is a personal thing now between Jackson and the Ravens, so the rest of this stuff is just missing the point.

He's 100% the best move the Jets could make.  It's not even close.

[Jets723]

12 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Whoa Nellie.

We had a GM pick Hackenberg and Bryce Petty...pair them with Josh McCown.  And then pass on Watson and Mahomes because we were still developing Hackenberg.

I think JD is pretty safe from being the worst.

Yes but let’s be honest Mahomes ended up in a great situation where he had a bunch of talent around him and a great coach.  Going to the Jets at that time would not have been great since we had no talent to build around him and worse coaching.  Now eventually maybe things would have gotten better but who know.  Personally we ended up with Garrett Wilson and AVT from that so I’m pretty happy 

[jetblue95]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Just so I'm clear on this logic.  If Baltimore resigns him are they still a great, smart front office and coaching staff or are the Jets mid-Atlantic?  A complete cluster F.    

 

well the calculus is different for the incumbent team and someone who would need to acquire him. 

for baltimore, it only costs money.  now it seems baltimore is balking at the money that jackson is reportedly seeking, including having it all guaranteed (again, based on reports, which i understand are not facts).  it remains to be seen whether baltimore and jackson can come to a long-term contract agreement.  seems more likely that baltimore will tag him (1-year deal), allow jackson to pursue other alternatives, and then evaluate it's options should someone else offer jackson a contract (match, take applicable tag compensation, or trade him).

if baltimore tags jackson and allows him to seek other suitors, that says to me that baltimore does not think jackson is worth the long-term contract/guaranteed money jackson is seeking.  yes, i consider baltimore a well run organization, and that seems to be a widely-held belief.

for the jets (or any other team), you not only need to meet jackson's contract/guarantee demands, you need to give up what is being described as a windfall bounty of draft picks to acquire him.  i personally consider this a horrible outcome.  doesn't mean i'm right.  just my opinion.

[Ron Rico]

47 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Lamar has missed 9 of his last 21 games due to injury and is coming off a PCL. Stability?

He'd fit right in.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, jetblue95 said:

you keep saying 26 year old MVP like he won his MVP last year.  it was 2019

in his 2019 MVP year (15 games), he threw for 36 TDs and 6 Ints, while rushing for 1206 yards and 7 TDs

in 2021-2022 combined (24 games*), he threw 33 TDs and 20 Ints, while rushing for 1530 yards and 5 TDs

* - missed 10 games with injury

 

if you tell me the jets are getting the 2019 lamar jackson, then sure, he's probably worth it.  unfortunately, that guy doesn't seem to exist anymore, at least based on his last two injury riddled seasons.

You're acting like this MVP was a life time ago.  4 years is not some eternity.  And he's 26, he won it at 22 years old.  Should he have won 4 straight?  Has anyone?  It's not like it was 15 years ago and you're asking him to do it on the last leg of his career.  He's younger then Joe Burrow.  He could 100% do it again and he was 100% in the MVP race before he was injured, this season.  His team is dog sh*t.  Yet they were 8-4 and averaging 26 pts a game w/ Lamar.  They average 16 and didnt score over 17 without him and went 2-5.

What are we doing here?  lmfao

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

well the calculus is different for the incumbent team and someone who would need to acquire him. 

for baltimore, it only costs money.  now it seems baltimore is balking at the money that jackson is reportedly seeking, including having it all guaranteed (again, based on reports, which i understand are not facts).  it remains to be seen whether baltimore and jackson can come to a long-term contract agreement.  seems more likely that baltimore will tag him (1-year deal), allow jackson to pursue other alternatives, and then evaluate it's options should someone else offer jackson a contract (match, take applicable tag compensation, or trade him).

if baltimore tags jackson and allows him to seek other suitors, that says to me that baltimore does not think jackson is worth the long-term contract/guaranteed money jackson is seeking.  yes, i consider baltimore a well run organization, and that seems to be a wildly held belief.

for the jets (or any other team), you not only need to meet jackson's contract/guarantee demands, you need to give up what is being described as a windfall bounty of draft picks to acquire him.  i personally consider this a horrible outcome.  doesn't mean i'm right.  just my opinion.

If they tag him I think the bounty is 2 1st round picks.  Pretty much what it would take to move up to take another bust early in the 1st round. 

I'm all for trying to draft another QB in this draft if we can unload Zach and bring in a second tier veteran on a 1 or 2 year deal. 

[UntouchableCrew]

The Jets aren't trading for Lamar. Zero chance. 

1) I don't think they'd give up the assets to get him.

2) I don't think Woody gives out the Deshaun contract that makes him a pariah with the other owners.

Add the two together, it's DOA.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If they tag him I think the bounty is 2 1st round picks.  Pretty much what it would take to move up to take another bust early in the 1st round. 

If they use the non-exclusive tag it's two first round picks. If they use the exclusive tag they'd need to trade him after he signs -- and he'd cost a fortune.

[JustInFudge]

49 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Lamar has missed 9 of his last 21 games due to injury and is coming off a PCL. Stability?

Yes.  Stability.  He's 26 and the elite of the elite athletes.  I'll take the gamble.  He was fine the years before this 2 year window.  And he has to do everything for that team to win.  It's a lot.  I think in this environment with the skills players he'd have at his disposal, he wouldnt have to be superman every week to win.  Play within the offense and do you 5-10 time a game and he can be preserved.  Ironically, all of his injuries have come from the pocket, so I do think it's been a bit fluky the past few years. 

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If they use the non-exclusive tag it's two first round picks. If they use the exclusive tag they'd need to trade him after he signs -- and he'd cost a fortune.

The exclusive tag is a very high risk move.  It basically guarantees Jackson 100 Million for 2 years from the Ravens as a starting point to negiotations.  

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The exclusive tag is a very high risk move.  It basically guarantees Jackson 100 Million for 2 years from the Ravens as a starting point to negiotations.  

Where do you think they are now?

Clearly that is the starting point -- he wants a Watson contract+. I'd assume the Ravens are totally fine with him signing for one year 50 million, but the best way to extract value for him is to tag him so you can trade him -- signing him long term (to a deal they like), having him play on the tag, or flipping him for a fortune in picks are their three desirable outcomes.

[JustInFudge]

37 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I'd give 4 if it means Joe Douglas doesn't ever has to draft a QB again, Guy is worst evaluator of QB talent ever. That's why Lamar likely not coming here, Joe only likes QB's that stink. 

Exactly.  Dude killed it this draft, no doubt.  His first 2 have basically yielded AVT out of how many picks?  Does anyone knows where James Morgan is?  And then he's owner of an all time epic bust in Zach Wilson but we're worried about losing picks?  Where are you picking when you win 12 games a year?  26? 27?  Maybe I would do 4.  lol

[jetblue95]

7 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

The playoff argument is not a strong or convincing, no offense.  Plenty of QB's had rough starts to their playoff career and then win later.  It happens, it's called maturity.  Mark Sanchez is 4-2 in the playoffs and did his first 2 season.  Mark Sanchez sucked. So meh. And his D's were good but his offensive talent has been absolute trash outside of Mark Andrews.  Lamar is their offense.

I also find it ironic that Herbert is ahead of Jackson on your list yet you're knocking Jackson for his playoff record.  Herbert just made the playoffs for the first time in his career and was part of the biggest choke job in NFL playoff history.  Lawrence is 1-1 and didnt make the playoffs last year but Jackson is not top tier because of his playoff record?  Hmph.

The financials dont matter.  You figure it out.  This is a personal thing now between Jackson and the Ravens, so the rest of this stuff is just missing the point.

He's 100% the best move the Jets could make.  It's not even close.

 

if it were only 1 or 2 years, then i could downplay the playoff results.  but he's been in the league 5 years and is asking to be paid something approaching $50 million a year, fully guaranteed.  in 2018 the ravens lost 23-17, in 2019 they lost 28-12, and 2020, they won 20-13 before losing 17-3.  so i feel that is a good enough track record to judge him on, even while fully acknowledging it is a team sport.

as to my list of QBs, i stand by it.  lawrence i called borderline, but holding the urban meyer disaster year against him (no offense to the gator legend) hardly seems fair.  as to herbert, i think he has more future upside and i prefer QBs that don't miss 10 games over the last 2 years.  i'd prefer a QB capable of throwing for 40+ TDs, which i think herbert will do multiple times in his career.  jackson injury history and playing style lead me to believe he is a much greater risk.

the jets roster outside of QB is solid.  but not sure why you think jackson can do more with this roster (and without the benefit of multiple high draft picks and him taking up $50 million of cap space) then he was able to do over 5 years with the generally solid ravens rosters.  now i know one could say the same about someone like derek carr, for example.  i don't love carr, but he's probably the best option in my book, assuming he comes in at something like $35 million or less a year.  all things being equal, yeah, i'd probably pick jackson over carr.  but all things are not equal, with the difference being the significant cost to acquire jackson (draft picks and high guaranteed contract), which limits the ability to build the team around them

[Barry McCockinner]

11 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Yes.  Stability.  He's 26 and the elite of the elite athletes.  I'll take the gamble.  He was fine the years before this 2 year window.  And he has to do everything for that team to win.  It's a lot.  I think in this environment with the skills players he'd have at his disposal, he wouldnt have to be superman every week to win.  Play within the offense and do you 5-10 time a game and he can be preserved.  Ironically, all of his injuries have come from the pocket, so I do think it's been a bit fluky the past few years. 

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered an explanation of how LJ provides stability. I like the player, just question his availability - especially given the trade cost and contract demands. I suspect the Ravens alleged willingness to trade him follows similar reasoning. Doesn't matter to me how the injuries occurred.

Does Becton also give us stability at LT in 23?

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Where do you think they are now?

Clearly that is the starting point -- he wants a Watson contract+. I'd assume the Ravens are totally fine with him signing for one year 50 million, but the best way to extract value for him is to tag him so you can trade him -- signing him long term (to a deal they like), having him play on the tag, or flipping him for a fortune in picks are their three desirable outcomes.

I would think Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes money which is less than 100 million for 2 years.  

[jetblue95]

19 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If they tag him I think the bounty is 2 1st round picks.  Pretty much what it would take to move up to take another bust early in the 1st round. 

I'm all for trying to draft another QB in this draft if we can unload Zach and bring in a second tier veteran on a 1 or 2 year deal. 

 

early 1st round picks don't get paid $50 million a year, fully guaranteed

[Jets723]

5 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

if it were only 1 or 2 years, then i could downplay the playoff results.  but he's been in the league 5 years and is asking to be paid something approaching $50 million a year, fully guaranteed.  in 2018 the ravens lost 23-17, in 2019 they lost 28-12, and 2020, they won 20-13 before losing 17-3.  so i feel that is a good enough track record to judge him on, even while fully acknowledging it is a team sport.

as to my list of QBs, i stand by it.  lawrence i called borderline, but holding the urban meyer disaster year against him (no offense to the gator legend) hardly seems fair.  as to herbert, i think he has more future upside and i prefer QBs that don't miss 10 games over the last 2 years.  i'd prefer a QB capable of throwing for 40+ TDs, which i think herbert will do multiple times in his career.  jackson injury history and playing style lead me to believe he is a much greater risk.

the jets roster outside of QB is solid.  but not sure why you think jackson can do more with this roster (and without the benefit of multiple high draft picks and him taking up $50 million of cap space) then he was able to do over 5 years with the generally solid ravens rosters.  now i know one could say the same about someone like derek carr, for example.  i don't love carr, but he's probably the best option in my book, assuming he comes in at something like $35 million or less a year.  all things being equal, yeah, i'd probably pick jackson over carr.  but all things are not equal, with the difference being the significant cost to acquire jackson (draft picks and high guaranteed contract), which limits the ability to build the team around them

Agreed.  We don’t need to spend a ton of money AND draft picks to get a QB that will help us be successful because like you said we have a strong young defense and very good young offensive weapons.  Look if we were just talking about Carr vs Lamar without any draft picks attached then of course I would pick Lamar but that’s not reality.  Having Carr plus being able to fill in the remaining holes we have is more ideal 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

54 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

how come I hear all these coaches around the league saying how great Lamar is but fans on jetsnation.com says he sucks?

Personally, Im shocked his new OC didnt come in and say he is a glorified RB

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I would think Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes money which is less than 100 million for 2 years.  

It's not AAV that's the issue. If that were it he'd be signed already.

He wants a fully guaranteed deal ala Deshaun Watson.

He wants a $350 million over 7 years fully guaranteed type deal.

$100 million over 2 years is nothing.

[jetblue95]

31 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

You're acting like this MVP was a life time ago.  4 years is not some eternity.  And he's 26, he won it at 22 years old.  Should he have won 4 straight?  Has anyone?  It's not like it was 15 years ago and you're asking him to do it on the last leg of his career.  He's younger then Joe Burrow.  He could 100% do it again and he was 100% in the MVP race before he was injured, this season.  His team is dog sh*t.  Yet they were 8-4 and averaging 26 pts a game w/ Lamar.  They average 16 and didnt score over 17 without him and went 2-5.

What are we doing here?  lmfao

 

no, it wasn't a lifetime ago, but it seems like an anomaly compared to his subsequent seasons.  i above compared 2019 to 21-22 combined).  but if you want more:

he went from 36 TD passes to 26, 16, and 17

he went from 6 Ints to 9, 13 and 7 (the latter two in 12 games)

his passing and rushing yards have gone down, his completion percentage has gone down, his passer rating and QBR have gone down, he's taking sacks at a higher rate.

the one thing that has gone up though are games missed due to injury...

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

if it were only 1 or 2 years, then i could downplay the playoff results.  but he's been in the league 5 years and is asking to be paid something approaching $50 million a year, fully guaranteed.  in 2018 the ravens lost 23-17, in 2019 they lost 28-12, and 2020, they won 20-13 before losing 17-3.  so i feel that is a good enough track record to judge him on, even while fully acknowledging it is a team sport.

as to my list of QBs, i stand by it.  lawrence i called borderline, but holding the urban meyer disaster year against him (no offense to the gator legend) hardly seems fair.  as to herbert, i think he has more future upside and i prefer QBs that don't miss 10 games over the last 2 years.  i'd prefer a QB capable of throwing for 40+ TDs, which i think herbert will do multiple times in his career.  jackson injury history and playing style lead me to believe he is a much greater risk.

the jets roster outside of QB is solid.  but not sure why you think jackson can do more with this roster (and without the benefit of multiple high draft picks and him taking up $50 million of cap space) then he was able to do over 5 years with the generally solid ravens rosters.  now i know one could say the same about someone like derek carr, for example.  i don't love carr, but he's probably the best option in my book, assuming he comes in at something like $35 million or less a year.  all things being equal, yeah, i'd probably pick jackson over carr.  but all things are not equal, with the difference being the significant cost to acquire jackson (draft picks and high guaranteed contract), which limits the ability to build the team around them

Peyton Manning after 4 seasons in the NFL was 0-3 in the playoffs.  He was 3-6 in the playoffs before the Colts finally won the Super Bowl.  It's not a strong argument.  The Ravens offense has been absolutely pathetic, so they havent performed well in the playoffs.  He needed help and they failed him big time.  Who's his best WR?  Who's the best one he's ever throw to?  Hollywood Brown?  bruh, come on here.   Manning, James, Harrison and Wayne.  It is definitely a team sport and Lamar, does it all on his own.

Herbert has been in the league for 3 years.  0-1 in the playoffs.  Biggest choke job in playoff history.  Blew a 27 point lead. It's strange how you're using this criteria. 

Further, if you're comparing 2nd season, Lamar's was better than Trevor.  He threw for 36 TD's and added 7 on the ground - 43 TDs!!!!  Trevor had 30 altogether and had much much better skills players. Again, I'm finding your criteria weird. 

Jackson w/ G. Wilson would be incredible.  Jackson like's the TE position, the Jets have 3 who can catch.  I think Jackson could open up Moore and even Mims game.  He's done it with lesser talent, for sure.  Hall would be the best RB he's had too, so he wouldnt have to be the leader rusher like he had to in Balt.  

I think the cost for Jackson outweighs wasting time and money on the guy who has the 2nd most turnovers in the NFL the last 3 years and cant play in cold weather and is a career loser.  And Rodgers is going to cost picks and money and he's a rental.  Again, Jackson is the best option, by far. 

[Biggs]

10 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It's not AAV that's the issue. If that were it he'd be signed already.

He wants a fully guaranteed deal ala Deshaun Watson.

He wants a $350 million over 7 years fully guaranteed type deal.

$100 million over 2 years is nothing.

He wants is not what he's going to get.  

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, JiF4Lamar said:

The Ravens offense has been absolutely pathetic, so they havent performed well in the playoffs.  He needed help and they failed him big time.  Who's his best WR?  Who's the best one he's ever throw to?  Hollywood Brown?  bruh, come on here.   Manning, James, Harrison and Wayne.  It is definitely a team sport and Lamar, does it all on his own.

 

You don't think it's somewhat telling that WRs don't want to play with the guy? You scoff at the idea that Hollywood Brown is a #1 guy (and I agree) but he was desperate to get away from Lamar for seemingly the same reason Elijah Moore wanted to get away from Zach Wilson.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, JiF4Lamar said:

Fine but promise me.  If we do trade for him, please stay with the team?  I want you to enjoy greatness for once.  You deserve it, I cant imagine how deflating it must be watching the best prospect you've ever seen in college bust out of the NFL on your favorite team.

I have been a fan since 1968 and you know I am one of the most glass half full guys here. I'd be seriously angry but I would likely get over it. I swore I'd never watch a game with Michael Vick as well and failed.

Zachs failure does suck. I do feel that we have ruined him especially LaFleur but not sure if he can be saved at this point.