Unacceptable

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Same Old Jets said:

Thanks for supporting my case and saving me homework.  

That doesn't support your case at all.  All those other offenses have been just fine in spite of the drops.  

The Jets offense has been crippled not because of drops, not because of OL play, and not because of coaching, even though ALL of those have indeed been issues.  They're just much further down the list than the issues horrific QB play has caused.

[Same Old Jets]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That doesn't support your case at all.  All those other offenses have been just fine in spite of the drops.  

The Jets offense has been crippled not because of drops, not because of OL play, and not because of coaching, even though ALL of those have indeed been issues.  They're just much further down the list than the issues horrific QB play has caused.

You should submit your application for a GM position in the NFL, because your are as close as a genius that I have seen in a long time. 

[JiFtheOracle]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Imagine how much the JSN cult would be complaining about those drops here, and how Douglas should have taken an OL with that pick instead?  Or a different WR (like one you pounded the table for - Zay Flowers or Addison?)

If the Jets could have come up w/ the Football, one play from Will McDonald would have shown the JSN cult why a game changing pass rusher is more important then a run of the mill slot WR.

 

[nj meadowlands]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I've been one of JD's most ardent defenders but its getting almost impossible to do so any longer.  Only remaining reason I wouldn't want to fire him, beyond building a strong core at non-QB and non-OL positions, is that Woody will assuredly hire the next Maccagnan to replace him. 

But I won't argue against those that want him gone.  It's deserved.

He's basically been good at one thing -- trading away garbage and getting decent draft pick value.  Everything else (drafting, personnel decisions, and ESPECIALLY veteran FA's) has been a disaster.  Jets fans like to focus exclusively on the first 40 picks of the 2022 draft when he lucked into some stud skill position players and ignore everything else.  At the end of the day the guy has a 24-50 record here.  Bananas.

Most GMs don't get to take a guy as historically bad as Zach Wilson at #2 overall and survive as long as Douglas has.  It's especially bad when you consider they keep trotting him out there. 

Don't worry though - Woody is giving the entire regime a mulligan because of Aaron Rodgers' little achilles.

[JiFtheOracle]

23 minutes ago, Same Old Jets said:

Thanks for supporting my case and saving me homework.  

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, Same Old Jets said:

You should submit your application for a GM position in the NFL, because your are as close as a genius that I have seen in a long time. 

Ah yes, the old "wHy dOn'T yOu wOrK iN sPoRtS iF yOu'Re sO sMaRt" deflection.  A classic.

[batman10023]

28 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

He's basically been good at one thing -- trading away garbage and getting decent draft pick value.  Everything else (drafting, personnel decisions, and ESPECIALLY veteran FA's) has been a disaster.  Jets fans like to focus exclusively on the first 40 picks of the 2022 draft when he lucked into some stud skill position players and ignore everything else.  At the end of the day the guy has a 24-50 record here.  Bananas.

Most GMs don't get to take a guy as historically bad as Zach Wilson at #2 overall and survive as long as Douglas has.  It's especially bad when you consider they keep trotting him out there. 

Don't worry though - Woody is giving the entire regime a mulligan because of Aaron Rodgers' little achilles.

so you are of the view that JD made the #2 pick and not the Jets PR/Marketing department?

many of the gurus here still say it's due to marketing/PR/sponsorship/woody.  

[batman10023]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying here dude.

No, ya silly Bat.  I'm saying drops tend to increase with bad QBs, because of how many uncatchable/difficult passes they throw.  And furthermore, only bad QBs are hurt by drops so much.  As has been noted in this thread already, Mahomes' receiving corps has the # 1 drop rate in the league so far.  Hasn't sunk his season just yet.

so you are saying Mahomes > Wilson

 

of course Zach throws a sh*tty ball.  he wasn't suppose to see the field this year.

My son isn't good at math. he needs practice and tutoring.  We just started and it's helping.  But he had his Unit 2 test this past week.  He didn't do well, he wasn't ready but the test was on the test date.  

at some point, it's not his fault he's not good at math.  we probably should have gotten him tutoring earlier.  We probably should have not allowed him to go accelerated math and gone down a level.  That's the GM (parents fault).

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

so you are saying Mahomes > Wilson

 

of course Zach throws a sh*tty ball.  he wasn't suppose to see the field this year.

My son isn't good at math. he needs practice and tutoring.  We just started and it's helping.  But he had his Unit 2 test this past week.  He didn't do well, he wasn't ready but the test was on the test date.  

at some point, it's not his fault he's not good at math.  we probably should have gotten him tutoring earlier.  We probably should have not allowed him to go accelerated math and gone down a level.  That's the GM (parents fault).

1) Shouldn't have drafted him in the 1st place

2) Shouldn't have stubbornly stuck with him despite all evidence saying he sucks

 

He was the unquestioned QB1 for 2 years and then the unquestioned QB2 this year....for no good reason....and they STILL haven't added anyone else to the QB room or even promoted Siemian from the PS.

Yes, that all falls on the regime, and I won't argue otherwise.  Zach could still have helped his cause by, I dunno, acting like he cares about football maybe.

[Same Old Jets]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Funny how good QBs have WRs who don't drop passes but the drops go up with bad QB's, around the league.  So weird.

How can you possibly defend Lazard's drops?  Unfkinreal man, common 80! 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Same Old Jets said:

How can you possibly defend Lazard's drops?  Unfkinreal man, common 80! 

Thing is:  I’m not.  Lazard is a big bodied receiver who needs to come down with some of these.  I just know what you’re trying to do with this thread.  

And Lazard’s drop rate being more than twice as high with Zach as it was with Rodgers should tell you something - that it isn’t so much about Lazard. 

[nj meadowlands]

14 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

so you are of the view that JD made the #2 pick and not the Jets PR/Marketing department?

many of the gurus here still say it's due to marketing/PR/sponsorship/woody.  

I think with all of the QB decisions that have been made since his arrival in 2019, JD has either been the driver or been on-board.

When he was hired, JD had Sam Darnold in year #2.  It's almost gotten hard to remember but there was a LOT to be optimistic about with Darnold heading into year to (and it wasn't just Jets fans deluding themselves like year 2 of Zach Wilson).

When it was apparent that Darnold wasn't it, it was JD who made the decision --- which was not lightly debated at the time --- to trade him for picks and place his stamp on the organization with his very own QB draft pick.  Many of us (myself included) who were on board with this wanted the Jets to take Justin Fields.  He didn't.  He fell in love with Wilson at his pro day like a lot of other ill-informed draftniks, and the rest is history (the JetBlue conspiracy theory held by some here is just the funniest running gag there is).  It's the single biggest blunder of his tenure, and as I said above, one that GMs typically do not survive.

Zach sucked for two years.  Spring of 2023, the Jets are now armed with an elite defense and a few emerging skill position players, and JD correctly realizes that the only way to survive the enormous boner of taking Zach Wilson second overall is to throw a huge Hail Mary to swing the QB position from the worst in the league to a net positive.  This was Aaron Rodgers.  It was a huge risk, but a calculation that I still have no problem with.  But didn't work!  And now JD should probably face consequences for where we are generally.  Do I think that Woody strongly encouraged the Rodgers move?  Obviously.  Was it some sort of mandate where Woody pounded on the table and vetoed poor little JD, who just wanted to meekly sign Derek Carr and move on?  Hell no.  That's as delusional as some of the ZW defenses.

[Greensleeves]

5 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

The WR do ZW no favors, but the offense is so bad, 1 drop, miscue, negative play, 5 yard penalty…it’s a wrap. Offense can barely get a first down without any of that, something like that happens. Might as well send punt team out next play 

but those bad plays stop the team from getting momentum. They had momentum in the Chiefs game because once they started to move the ball it all gets better as the game progresses. You have a GW fumble, a penalty, a Lazard drop, a GW penalty, a Lazard penalty - and there is zero surprise that all of Zach's bad plays happen right after those negative plays because it's 2nd or 3rd and long and he's waiting for someone to get open downfield - and waits too long. It's when ALL the mistakes happen. Ruckert had a drop and moved twice for penalties on the line. This team has gone backwards since the bye.

[Same Old Jets]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Thing is:  I’m not.  Lazard is a big bodied receiver who needs to come down with some of these.  I just know what you’re trying to do with this thread.  

And Lazard’s drop rate being more than twice as high with Zach as it was with Rodgers should tell you something - that it isn’t so much about Lazard. 

I have an idea, make Lazard TE 3 and cut or trade Uzomah next year. Draft a WR, trade for D. Adams.  D. Adams, G. Wilson, draftee, Conklin, Ruckert and Lazard.  Lazard is a blocker and not a WR, therefore make him more serviceable at TE, more of his natural position. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Same Old Jets

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Same Old Jets said:

I have an idea, make Lazard TE 3 and cut or trade Uzomah next year. Draft a WR, trade for D. Adams.  D. Adams, G. Wilson, draftee, Conklin, Ruckert and Lazard.   

I’d be down.  Hell, I’d be happy with a WR room that contains Clyde Gates, Stephen Hill and Denzel Mims as long as someone new is throwing the passes.

[Rich Thornburgh]

3 hours ago, Wit said:

Poor Zach, if only he had the weapons he would be incredible.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Zach Needz Weaponz

[Rich Thornburgh]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1) Shouldn't have drafted him in the 1st place

2) Shouldn't have stubbornly stuck with him despite all evidence saying he sucks

 

He was the unquestioned QB1 for 2 years and then the unquestioned QB2 this year....for no good reason....and they STILL haven't added anyone else to the QB room or even promoted Siemian from the PS.

Yes, that all falls on the regime, and I won't argue otherwise.  Zach could still have helped his cause by, I dunno, acting like he cares about football maybe.

[Same Old Jets]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

You guys will never believe which receiver has the fourth most drops in the league.

Is Lazard on the same stratosphere? 

[batman10023]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1) Shouldn't have drafted him in the 1st place

2) Shouldn't have stubbornly stuck with him despite all evidence saying he sucks

 

He was the unquestioned QB1 for 2 years and then the unquestioned QB2 this year....for no good reason....and they STILL haven't added anyone else to the QB room or even promoted Siemian from the PS.

Yes, that all falls on the regime, and I won't argue otherwise.  Zach could still have helped his cause by, I dunno, acting like he cares about football maybe.

not sure I understand your point 2.  they went out and got AR for this year.  

it's clear they should have spent $5mm to get another qb - but who knows which one would have come here as a backup. ($$ helps)

[batman10023]

15 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

I think with all of the QB decisions that have been made since his arrival in 2019, JD has either been the driver or been on-board.

When he was hired, JD had Sam Darnold in year #2.  It's almost gotten hard to remember but there was a LOT to be optimistic about with Darnold heading into year to (and it wasn't just Jets fans deluding themselves like year 2 of Zach Wilson).

When it was apparent that Darnold wasn't it, it was JD who made the decision --- which was not lightly debated at the time --- to trade him for picks and place his stamp on the organization with his very own QB draft pick.  Many of us (myself included) who were on board with this wanted the Jets to take Justin Fields.  He didn't.  He fell in love with Wilson at his pro day like a lot of other ill-informed draftniks, and the rest is history (the JetBlue conspiracy theory held by some here is just the funniest running gag there is).  It's the single biggest blunder of his tenure, and as I said above, one that GMs typically do not survive.

Zach sucked for two years.  Spring of 2023, the Jets are now armed with an elite defense and a few emerging skill position players, and JD correctly realizes that the only way to survive the enormous boner of taking Zach Wilson second overall is to throw a huge Hail Mary to swing the QB position from the worst in the league to a net positive.  This was Aaron Rodgers.  It was a huge risk, but a calculation that I still have no problem with.  But didn't work!  And now JD should probably face consequences for where we are generally.  Do I think that Woody strongly encouraged the Rodgers move?  Obviously.  Was it some sort of mandate where Woody pounded on the table and vetoed poor little JD, who just wanted to meekly sign Derek Carr and move on?  Hell no.  That's as delusional as some of the ZW defenses.

He should have kept Darnod and used sold that draft pick.  my guess is that was serious consideration.  

I think next year is JD/RS last year unless they make the playoffs.  full stop.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Lazard sucks

Anyone who watches football knew he was a JAG they overpaid massively for

It’s still nothing compared to:

2.5 years of the trashy Zach Wilson experience

 

[Beerfish]

I didn't think much of lazard before we picked him up but he has been much worse than even I thought he was.

This is what happens when you let a new guy come in and be the gm and pick half the roster.

Saleh and Douglas sold their souls on the Rodgers gamble and are reaping what they sowed.

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

not sure I understand your point 2.  they went out and got AR for this year.  

it's clear they should have spent $5mm to get another qb - but who knows which one would have come here as a backup. ($$ helps)

Zach should have been the project QB3, was my point.  Having him be the unquestioned QB2 (and then naming him the starter the rest of the season after Rodgers got hurt) was absurd from the jump.  

[nj meadowlands]

10 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

He should have kept Darnod and used sold that draft pick.  my guess is that was serious consideration.  

I think next year is JD/RS last year unless they make the playoffs.  full stop.

I think that's a very obvious statement.  I am pretty sure Woody is giving everyone a Mulligan because of Rodgers' injury this year, but there might be a tipping point where JD and RS get canned this year (5-12?)

[southparkcpa]

[nj meadowlands]

BTW I have been having a lengthy, stat-addled, deranged conversation with ChatGPT about the historically worst QBs and I have included that the only QBs in NFL history that are DEFINITELY worse than Zach are Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler and Jimmy Clausen.   Akili Smith and Jamarcus Russell also have a claim.

 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Same Old Jets said:

Is Lazard on the same stratosphere? 

They’re both #JAGs. 
 

[Same Old Jets]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

They’re both #JAGs. 
 

This wasn't a Zach Wilson thread to start with...

[Warfish]

Posting in an "everybody's fault but Zach" thread, woot woot!

P.S> Doubly funny having people who defended the Lazard signing now telling people who were against it at the time how bad a signing it was, it's that time of year already, where all the always-wrongs start claiming how they knew all along, were right all along, in some of the most obvious dishonesty around, lol.

[Jigsaw89]

This team is an OT Coin Toss decision to receive (Giants should had kicked amongst other reasons), a late INT vs Philly and a miracle punt return from BUF from being 2-7.  On the contrary if the refs weren't swifties we'd be 6-3...

[Jet_Engine1]

Unacceptable doesn't begin to describe it:

 

[hawk]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The top six teams in drop percentage are the Chiefs, Rams, Cowboys, Lions, Jets, and Bengals. 
 

I don't understand the graphic.  I don't mean to come across as mentally stunted, but is this implying that all teams have receivers that Drop the ball?

Oh,oh,oh, am I reading it correctly that some teams drop the ball more than a team, oh I'll go out on a limb, Like the New York Jets for instance?

I wouldn't think that is the case because that would mean that excuse doesn't hold any water.

[Paradis]

15 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't want to get into a whole Zach analysis.  My question is for the WR coaches.  Don't we have a couple?  @Chrebetfan80 ?  Plenty of WR analysts, right?  @Paradis @win4ever @derp @maury77 Any more?  Sorry that I missed you. 

I don't know how deep we should go analyzing this sh*tshow of a play, but looking at that first pic, Lazard looks to be set up perfectly.  If that ball were coming straight at him.  The ball is coming well past his left shoulder, but the angle means that he is not facing where the QB is, so it could not possibly have been delivered straight at him.  

I argue drops all the time because I think that the board has ridiculous expectations for receivers, but this one was pretty blatant.  Watching live, I couldn't figure out how Lazard got his hands so ****ed up, but looking at the set up, it seems he either blew it from the start, the ball wasn't where he thought it should be and/or he was not where he should have been.  A step or two to the left and a quarter turn to his right and he can't **** that up.  Lazard made so many mistakes in that mess that it sure could just have been him.

All i'm gonna say is that if you look up last spring you'll see me saying that we should stay clear of Lazard, he's a prime candidate to be wildly overpaid, and under-deliver. He was a role player in GB, was rarely 100% healthy and not the best hands. 

What did we do? We made him WR2. He's more of a 3/4 guy and at his best with deep posts, corners, seams, etc. We needed to make an accomplished boundary/outside guy the next Jet. Hopkins was the obvious target. 

[Dunnie]

All i'm gonna say is that if you look up last spring you'll see me saying that we should stay clear of Lazard, he's a prime candidate to be wildly overpaid, and under-deliver. He was a role player in GB, was rarely 100% healthy and not the best hands. 
What did we do? We made him WR2. He's more of a 3/4 guy and at his best with deep posts, corners, seams, etc. We needed to make an accomplished boundary/outside guy the next Jet. Hopkins was the obvious target. 

We need a guy with hands of gold that can win contested balls regularly as part of his game... I'd prefer a big body guy like Cooper or DT.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[bealeb319]

To be fair the chargers guy gently touched him with two hands which must have been terrifying to lazard.