National rhetoric around Zachs victimhood

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

The hard truth in this is that our society has been formed around everything being a binary choice.

Zach is not good. He had 1 good game in 3 years, yesterday. The Jets org is not good. They have failed miserably at everything for half a century.

Believe it or not, both things can and have contributed to this.

IMO there are two kinds of people in society: those who believe everything is a binary choice and those who don't. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It just proves that the overall problem begins and ends with ownership. 

Bad owner, hires bad GM and bad coaches who do what bad owner says. Jets fans blame everything on young QB, hope to hit lottery on next young QB, with same bad owner picking bad gms and bad coaches, and round and round we go....

[Matt39]

Just now, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Bad owner, hires bad GM and bad coaches who do what bad owner says. Jets fans blame everything on young QB, hope to hit lottery on next young QB, with same bad owner picking bad gms and bad coaches, and round and round we go....

Yes. Which is why you need to find a QB who’s get the mental fortitude to overcome the suck.

[Biggs]

23 minutes ago, football guy said:

Maybe instead of writing statements as if they are facts, clarify your point by writing "I think"? 

Don't think its too much to ask for 

There are no facts.  Nobody insinuated they were facts.   This is the matrix, act like you're part of it.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Yes. Which is why you need to find a QB who’s get the mental fortitude to overcome the suck.

they need more than just the mental fortitude, but yes, and we are talking about young kids who have been told since they were 7 that they are special humans by adults and everyone around them

 

[Jet Nut]

58 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Show me where I said he didnt play well. PLEASE show me. In fact some here are pointing to the scoreless 1st half as if it were his fault. I defended him. Stroud put up a zero also and I posted this. The conditions were horrible.

Again, this was not balling, hero ball, eff it ball, shootout etc etc. Yesterday he executed to a high degree of accuracy the same plays he has mostly missed on for 3 years.  I dont know what to tell ya except of course you are free to have your own perception interpretation or whatever you want to call it.

He played a playoff team.  A good D.  He played in a downpour.  

Playing, executing “to a high degree of accuracy the same plays he has mostly missed on for 3 years” is balling.  That’s my perception of what I watched yesterday.   He balled.  
Too bad for all he hasn’t done this consistently, at least showing it here and there but he hasnt

[football guy]

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Or, any post lacking a cited source should likely just be presumed to be opinion based.

If you're uncertain, you could ask for a cited source.

Of course, insiders such as yourself cannot cite sources either, we just have to trust that you're not making things up, or citing unreliable sources.

Generally, us non-insiders are almost always giving opinions.  

I don't profess myself to be an insider. I never have. I have always made it clear when its something that I've heard vs. something that's not. I haven't shared anything new on here and I'm done doing it; I get nothing out of it and its become increasingly difficult to have any intelligent football conversations online, hence why I don't post often anymore. 

Also, I've shared my sources with the administrators on here in the past because of the amount of people who were so bothered by me posting info during covid when it was fun to do so... this is nothing new. I'd be happy to put people's name on it, but knowing some of the posters on this board they would've investigated, contacted, and harassed them over it so it was kept private. 

Either way, there are certain things that are fact vs. opinion based. Fact: the Jets never intended on parting ways with Zach after he was benched twice last year, and they had always intended to bring in a veteran QB (ideally Rodgers) as a temporary solution, with the desire to develop Zach long-term which is something Zach was totally on board with and welcomed. There's no need to cite it considering how open they were about it last offseason. Opinion/fiction: the Jets coaching staff and GM bailed on him when they signed Rodgers, and if Zach sits behind Rodgers next year that indicates he'll be a career backup. 

[football guy]

15 minutes ago, Biggs said:

There are no facts.  Nobody insinuated they were facts.   This is the matrix, act like you're part of it.

 

1 minute ago, football guy said:

Fact: the Jets never intended on parting ways with Zach after he was benched twice last year, and they had always intended to bring in a veteran QB (ideally Rodgers) as a temporary solution, with the desire to develop Zach long-term which is something Zach was totally on board with and welcomed. There's no need to cite it considering how open they were about it last offseason. Opinion/fiction: the Jets coaching staff and GM bailed on him when they signed Rodgers, and if Zach sits behind Rodgers next year that indicates he'll be a career backup.

 

[Lot K Tailgaters]

The Jets cannot develop players.  By no means am I saying that Zach Wilson is a great QB but look at all the guys drafted at the position and how they have all wound up.  Part of it comes down to the inability to develop players.  

[chirorob]

7 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don't profess myself to be an insider. I never have. I have always made it clear when its something that I've heard vs. something that's not. I haven't shared anything new on here and I'm done doing it; I get nothing out of it and its become increasingly difficult to have any intelligent football conversations online, hence why I don't post often anymore. 

Also, I've shared my sources with the administrators on here in the past because of the amount of people who were so bothered by me posting info during covid when it was fun to do so... this is nothing new. I'd be happy to put people's name on it, but knowing some of the posters on this board they would've investigated, contacted, and harassed them over it so it was kept private. 

Either way, there are certain things that are fact vs. opinion based. Fact: the Jets never intended on parting ways with Zach after he was benched twice last year, and they had always intended to bring in a veteran QB (ideally Rodgers) as a temporary solution, with the desire to develop Zach long-term which is something Zach was totally on board with and welcomed. There's no need to cite it considering how open they were about it last offseason. Opinion/fiction: the Jets coaching staff and GM bailed on him when they signed Rodgers, and if Zach sits behind Rodgers next year that indicates he'll be a career backup. 

Do you think/heard Zach will or will not be back next year.

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

 

 

Meanwhile the reset never happened and Saleh pouted to the media and to his FAN bud implying what a bad hand he had been dealt because he had to start Zach.  Zach was never reset.  They made him the backup from day 1.  Zach is now an NFL starting QB who doesn't need a reset.  This years reset never happened because they made Zach the backup and brought in trash behind him.  They practically begged Zach to play after Boyle and Siemian shat themselves.

What Zach was on board with a year ago and what he is going to be on board with this offseason when there is real money and starting NFL jobs available aren't the same thing.  

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

The Jets cannot develop players.  By no means am I saying that Zach Wilson is a great QB but look at all the guys drafted at the position and how they have all wound up.  Part of it comes down to the inability to develop players.  

A lot of these guys were just bad picks too. Douglas has done a poor job overall. Essentially the entire team was built off of pooling resources at the top of the 2022 draft. Everything outside of that has been pretty bad. WR he’s whiffed. OL he’s whiffed. RB he’s whiffed. 

[peebag]

11 minutes ago, Lot K Tailgaters said:

The Jets cannot develop players.  By no means am I saying that Zach Wilson is a great QB but look at all the guys drafted at the position and how they have all wound up.  Part of it comes down to the inability to develop players.  

A lot of those qbs who left the Jets have not done much

[football guy]

2 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Do you think/heard Zach will or will not be back next year.

My gut says Zach will be back. I think Aaron and Joe Douglas are truly invested in him and I think that means a lot to him. He's been through it all and has grown a lot personally and professionally throughout his 3 years here. He went into this season expecting to be Aaron's backup for 2-3 years before taking back the reigns, then sh*t hit the fan. Maybe reflecting on this year he'll change his perspective but my gut says he'll ultimately be happy to come back. 

[football guy]

9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Meanwhile the reset never happened and Saleh pouted to the media and to his FAN bud implying what a bad hand he had been dealt because he had to start Zach.  Zach was never reset.  They made him the backup from day 1.  Zach is now an NFL starting QB who doesn't need a reset.  This years reset never happened because they made Zach the backup and brought in trash behind him.  They practically begged Zach to play after Boyle and Siemian shat themselves.

What Zach was on board with a year ago and what he is going to be on board with this offseason when there is real money and starting NFL jobs available aren't the same thing.  

Did Saleh do that or was his WFAN buddy using hyperbole? 

Since when did the "reset" mean he was going to be mothballed this year? That was the message last year, but this year the plan was for him to be the #2 behind Aaron... Jets made that abundantly clear when they traded for him. We had "trash" behind Zach because Zach was the 2nd string QB... what teams have really good 3rd stringers?

Again, begged? Zach made it clear that he wanted to start. He went to Saleh and asked for the ball. Just because the media painted a picture as if Zach didn't want to play doesn't mean that was what actually happened. 

The last part is true. I have no idea if he changed his mind. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

Did Saleh do that or was his WFAN buddy using hyperbole? 

Since when did the "reset" mean he was going to be mothballed this year? That was the message last year, but this year the plan was for him to be the #2 behind Aaron... Jets made that abundantly clear when they traded for him. We had "trash" behind Zach because Zach was the 2nd string QB... what teams have really good 3rd stringers?

Again, begged? Zach made it clear that he wanted to start. He went to Saleh and asked for the ball. Just because the media painted a picture as if Zach didn't want to play doesn't mean that was what actually happened. 

The last part is true. I have no idea if he changed his mind. 

Footballguy got plugged back in coincidentally after Zach’s first good game. 

[Matt39]

Also, Saleh referred to this season as a redshirt year, which means deactivated on Sunday’s. He lied.

[Hex]

47 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

IMO there are two kinds of people in society: those who believe everything is a binary choice and those who don't. 

There are actually 10 kinds of people: Those who believe everything should be in binary and those who don't.

[Biggs]

Just now, football guy said:

Did Saleh do that or was his WFAN buddy using hyperbole? 

Since when did the "reset" mean he was going to be mothballed this year? That was the message last year, but this year the plan was for him to be the #2 behind Aaron... Jets made that abundantly clear when they traded for him. We had "trash" behind Zach because Zach was the 2nd string QB... what teams have really good 3rd stringers?

Again, begged? Zach made it clear that he wanted to start. He went to Saleh and asked for the ball. Just because the media painted a picture as if Zach didn't want to play doesn't mean that was what actually happened. 

The last part is true. I have no idea if he changed his mind. 

This is pure spin.  Nonsense.  

[football guy]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Footballguy got plugged back in coincidentally after Zach’s first good game. 

False- I just find this conversation amusing. People go online and spew nonsense as if they are facts (or opinions, still not sure) and its fun to correct the narrative. That and I happen to have a slow work day today 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, football guy said:

False- I just find this conversation amusing. People go online and spew nonsense as if they are facts (or opinions, still not sure) and its fun to correct the narrative. That and I happen to have a slow work day today 

I’ve never seen such a PR push for a player who’s been not good. What you are saying does not align with performance at all. It’s sketchy.

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, football guy said:

Did Saleh do that or was his WFAN buddy using hyperbole? 

Since when did the "reset" mean he was going to be mothballed this year? That was the message last year, but this year the plan was for him to be the #2 behind Aaron... Jets made that abundantly clear when they traded for him. We had "trash" behind Zach because Zach was the 2nd string QB... what teams have really good 3rd stringers?

Again, begged? Zach made it clear that he wanted to start. He went to Saleh and asked for the ball. Just because the media painted a picture as if Zach didn't want to play doesn't mean that was what actually happened. 

The last part is true. I have no idea if he changed his mind. 

If they keep wilson based off of a few decent games when they’re out of playoff contention and then rodgers goes down again and wilson can’t win enough games, then everyone is getting fired.  If you double down on him, it’s all or nothing 

[football guy]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

I’ve never seen such a PR push for a player who’s been not good. What you are saying does not align with performance at all. It’s sketchy.

Whatever you say man 

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, football guy said:

False- I just find this conversation amusing. People go online and spew nonsense as if they are facts (or opinions, still not sure) and its fun to correct the narrative. That and I happen to have a slow work day today 

I can't figure out if you're lying because you're connected or you're lying about being connected.  

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I just finshed watching the entire game. If Zach threw all the same passes every game, he would have about 3 picks. Conklin and Ruckert bailed him out on two of the throws. It was actually a lot of poor defense. I do give Zach credit for throwing the risky passes. I basically don't  think he will duplicate this against a solid secondary like the Fins. 

That’s where we are on the same exact page.

A sample of 1/2 game is not nearly enough.

4 games left to let Zach let it rip rather than checking it down.

Throw early & often.

Pass to set up the run.

More play action and pre-snap movement.

Play aggressively to get a lead rather than cautiously to avoid giving one up.

We’ll see.  I’m not betting on Zach but I am of the belief that he has already proven not to be a game manager or someone who can play hero ball.  So why not try what worked in the 2nd half?  

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don't profess myself to be an insider. I never have.  

Do/did you not?  I seem to recall differently, but if you say so. 

29 minutes ago, football guy said:

Also, I've shared my sources with the administrators on here in the past because of the amount of people who were so bothered by me posting info during covid when it was fun to do so... this is nothing new. I'd be happy to put people's name on it, but knowing some of the posters on this board they would've investigated, contacted, and harassed them over it so it was kept private.

So you're not an insider, but then you immediately contradict that claim by saying you have insider sources you could name but, of course, won't for :reasons:.  Got it.

[football guy]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

If they keep wilson based off of a few decent games when they’re out of playoff contention and then rodgers goes down again and wilson can’t win enough games, then everyone is getting fired.  If you double down on him, it’s all or nothing 

Again we are talking about a backup quarterback. They are backups for a reason. No one you bring in is going to be that much better, and if Aaron gets hurt again next year everyone is getting fired anyway. Minshew isn't coming here and he also is foreign to this scheme. We had Joe Flacco last year and we saw who he was here... so is his performance in Cleveland because he's an elite player or is he a product of good coaching and a good environment? Ryan Tannehill is the most ideal scenario, but who's to say he would even be an upgrade at this point? 

I don't think its inconceivable to believe that Zach will only improve with more time in the system and with an improved offensive line and improved wide receiver group. He has shown he can perform on the spot and win games. That's what you need out of a backup QB. So if I were running the Jets my focus would be to improve the offensive line, improve the wide receiver group, and draft a QB somewhere in the 3rd-6th rounds, have them sit behind Aaron and Zach and develop them to be a potential option as a starter or long-term backup.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

59 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Or, any post lacking a cited source should likely just be presumed to be opinion based.

If you're uncertain, you could ask for a cited source.

Of course, insiders such as yourself cannot cite sources either, we just have to trust that you're not making things up, or citing unreliable sources.

Generally, us non-insiders are almost always giving opinions.  

Unfortunately, us non insiders have been offering opinions pre 2023 season that would have led to much better results :(.

1. Get at least 1 starting caliber OT not named Duane Brown, Max Mitchell or Billy Turner.

2. If Zach needed to sit for a year, then let him sit for a year and get a ready backup like Minshew or Brissett.

3. Offense round 1

4. Better wide receiver talent than Allen Lazard, who is at best a big slot (#3 WR)

5. Ready to contribute draft class

….. list goes on.

The Jets leadership has lost almost all credibility and if Zach balls out these next few games, it won’t be because their plan was right all along, it was because the morons who lead this team finally had the courage to play to his strengths rather than fearing his weaknesses.  

[football guy]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Do/did you not?  I seem to recall differently, but if you say so. 

So you're not an insider, but then you immediately contradict that claim by saying you have insider sources you could name but, of course, won't for :reasons:.  Got it.

I'm not an insider and never have stated such. I have shared what I heard from people who work in the league and for the Jets on a message board. Do whatever you want with it

[Augustiniak]

Just now, football guy said:

Again we are talking about a backup quarterback. They are backups for a reason. No one you bring in is going to be that much better, and if Aaron gets hurt again next year everyone is getting fired anyway. Minshew isn't coming here and he also is foreign to this scheme. We had Joe Flacco last year and we saw who he was here... so is his performance in Cleveland because he's an elite player or is he a product of good coaching and a good environment? Ryan Tannehill is the most ideal scenario, but who's to say he would even be an upgrade at this point? 

I don't think its inconceivable to believe that Zach will only improve with more time in the system and with an improved offensive line and improved wide receiver group. He has shown he can perform on the spot and win games. That's what you need out of a backup QB. So if I were running the Jets my focus would be to improve the offensive line, improve the wide receiver group, and draft a QB somewhere in the 3rd-6th rounds, have them sit behind Aaron and Zach and develop them to be a potential option as a starter or long-term backup.

If the vision and reasonable best case scenario is that wilson becomes a long term backup here, then get rid of him.  B/c if rodgers goes down again and wilson is bad, there’s a new regime anyway and he’s going to be expelled with the rest of the old regime.  

The underlying problem is a stubbornness to admit a mistake.  If you asked outsiders with no bias what should be done, they’d say trade wilson, bring in the best vet qb backup you can, and draft another qb on day 2 and start a process to hopefully start grooming your own qbs correctly. 

[Ken Schroy]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Yes. Which is why you need to find a QB who’s get the mental fortitude to overcome the suck.

LOL. Good luck with that.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

A lot of these guys were just bad picks too. Douglas has done a poor job overall. Essentially the entire team was built off of pooling resources at the top of the 2022 draft. Everything outside of that has been pretty bad. WR he’s whiffed. OL he’s whiffed. RB he’s whiffed. 

And yet he’s had 2 low round, day 3 picks playing along with Tippman & Becton.  GW was the NFL OROY as a WR.  Breece might have won it as a RB if he didn’t get injured.  The world views this team as a playoff team, a solid contender if JD had hit with their pick at QB.  All with a roster loaded with young players, a roster loade with players JD drafted.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

8 minutes ago, football guy said:

Again we are talking about a backup quarterback. They are backups for a reason. No one you bring in is going to be that much better, and if Aaron gets hurt again next year everyone is getting fired anyway. Minshew isn't coming here and he also is foreign to this scheme. We had Joe Flacco last year and we saw who he was here... so is his performance in Cleveland because he's an elite player or is he a product of good coaching and a good environment? Ryan Tannehill is the most ideal scenario, but who's to say he would even be an upgrade at this point? 

I don't think its inconceivable to believe that Zach will only improve with more time in the system and with an improved offensive line and improved wide receiver group. He has shown he can perform on the spot and win games. That's what you need out of a backup QB. So if I were running the Jets my focus would be to improve the offensive line, improve the wide receiver group, and draft a QB somewhere in the 3rd-6th rounds, have them sit behind Aaron and Zach and develop them to be a potential option as a starter or long-term backup.

This is reasonable, but if they are going to extract any trade value whatsoever, it has to be this offseason.

I don't see Zach wanting to return as a backup QB to the Jets.

It's grown too toxic with the fans and all the disappointment that comes with having been the #2 overall pick.

The 5th year option cannot seriously be a consideration at this point, and there will be at least one team willing to sign him to some kind of deal based on athleticism and arm talent alone, despite how ugly most of his pro tape has been.

So either way, sooner or later, he's a goner.

Might as well get something for him if they can.

[rangerous]

6 hours ago, Jet hustle said:

Seems like everyone is blaming the Jets Org for Zach sucking for the past 3 years.  Just a  bizarre take if you have actually watched him play.  Even Rex Ryan is going hard on this Hot Take.   It's just perplexing to me

Why? Just about everyone and their mother is saying he should have sat for a season or two.  Instead the little twerp milfy threw him in without much support and watched him fail.  And saleh was right there looking on throwing the fear of god into him if he threw an int.  Yesterday he just played.  To me it’s obvious he’s improved immensely over the past two seasons and even during this season.  Just go count the number of balls the receivers have missed even when in their hands.  Of count the number of times a play was called back because of a holding call or other ticks tacky penalty.

 I think the real tell will be if Zach and this offense back up this game in Miami.  Much harder because the doltfins can score points in bunches so the defense needs its A game.  But if Zach backs up his performance then people shouldn’t be so surprised if he remains on the team next season and possibly beyond.  I think the team was getting down on Zach (they read the papers too) and more performances like yesterday will change some minds.

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, football guy said:

I'm not an insider and never have stated such. I have shared what I heard from people who work in the league and for the Jets on a message board. Do whatever you want with it

Two quick replies:

1. A person who claims they are hearing things directly from "people in the league" are, in fact, self-proclaimed insiders.  The vast majority of us normal folks here don't know or personally associate with or hear things from, "people in the league".

2. Respectfully, I do with you what I do with any online self-professed insider.  Nothing.  I treat you, and everything you say, as pure opinion, just like I treat anyone else.  I've been around enough folks in my own career to know most so-called insiders....simply aren't.  They might be employees, functionaries, even players, or they knows folks by some friend or familial extension, but they're not truly privy to the real facts, the real inside sources, the real decision making as it's happening.  

Facts demand and require evidence.  Everything else is opinion, no matter how gussied it it may be presented.

But who knows, maybe you're Joe Douglas.  It's always possible.  IF so, good luck Joe, you clearly have alot of work to fix this ship, and while I'd fire you, clearly Woody won't, so I wish you well.