Popular Post Lurker89 Posted January 9 Popular Post Share Posted January 9 Man I love this place... you all have lost your minds to the point that I seem like a rational and well balanced human being. ****ing crazy out here. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Nobody whines like Jet fans whine. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 11 minutes ago, Warfish said: Ah, the old False Choice/False Dilemma/False Binary fallacy. A golden oldie. There is plenty to talk about beyond jousting the Woody Windmill. It's certainly not "talk about Woody, or talk about nothing". And again, I will say that everyone here knows it's Woody. Everyone here has "solutions" they'd like to see that Woody has already made clear he isn't going to do, i.e. fire JD, fire Saleh/Hackett, hire this guy or that guys, sign this name or that name, etc. I don't think anyone here disagreed that Woody is the top man, and the primary cause of our problems. You'll get some pushback tho when you say Saleh/JD/Etc. aren't part of the problem tho, because they so clearly are. Failure has many causes, at many levels of responsibility. Don't get me wrong, if it pleases you to joust this windmill all offseason, have at it. I just don't see the point, Woody isn't going anywhere, despite your cute "be loud, fans rise up" populist revolution thing. It's not a false choice (although ironically, you seem to have no issue with it in your 3rd line above). You're clearly stating that everything has been said. Everyone knows. Nothing more to discuss. Saleh/JD are symptoms of the disease. That's it. You cure the disease, the symptoms go away with it. What I'm saying is there is one hope for Jets fans. It's that Woody makes a decision to step aside and put someone in charge who understands this game. It's not a healthy Rodgers. It's not a good draft or a free agent or a trade. It's not Saleh figuring it out. It's Woody changing. That's the only way out. Everything else is a waste of time and resources, and all the evidence of Johnson's tenure supports that assertion. Nothing supports the arguments that it can't change. Anything can change when all it is is a choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 12 minutes ago, peebag said: The Broncos aren't the Jets. They are a succesful NFL franchise And what makes them successful? The uniforms? "Aura"? Good fans? hint: it's none of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: It's not a false choice It's not? So the only topic allowed is Woody, or shut-down-the-forum silence? Lol, ok Tater. 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: You're clearly stating that everything has been said. Everyone knows. Yes, I'd say at this point everyone here knows that Woody is the root cause/primary responsible entity of our problems. 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: Saleh/JD are symptoms of the disease. That's it. You cure the disease, the symptoms go away with it. Tell me, how did that work for Carolina when they changed Owners? I presume you think the Commanders are Super Bowl favorites in 2024 right? All it takes is Ownership change? And Snyder was several degrees worse than Woody, after all. 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: What I'm saying is there is one hope for Jets fans. It's that Woody makes a decision to step aside and put someone in charge who understands this game. It's Woody changing. That's the only way out. Which isn't going to happen. Hence the "windmills" comment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsman Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Warfish said: It's not? So the only topic allowed is Woody, or shut-down-the-forum silence? Lol, ok Tater. Yes, I'd say at this point everyone here knows that Woody is the root cause/primary responsible entity of our problems. Tell me, how did that work for Carolina when they changed Owners? I presume you think the Commanders are Super Bowl favorites in 2024 right? All it takes is Ownership change? And Snyder was several degrees worse than Woody, after all. Which isn't going to happen. Hence the "windmills" comment. the commanders are pointing in the right direction for once i think. no longer a laughing stock starting next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Could also hire Jon Gruden who is about to start working for the Saints . But either Gruden or Harbaugh would make the joke owner way less out front in the face of a serious football guy and cost real $. He likes bargain bin coaches and plus Gruden is suing the NFL. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 11 minutes ago, JetPotato said: It's not a false choice (although ironically, you seem to have no issue with it in your 3rd line above). You're clearly stating that everything has been said. Everyone knows. Nothing more to discuss. Saleh/JD are symptoms of the disease. That's it. You cure the disease, the symptoms go away with it. What I'm saying is there is one hope for Jets fans. It's that Woody makes a decision to step aside and put someone in charge who understands this game. It's not a healthy Rodgers. It's not a good draft or a free agent or a trade. It's not Saleh figuring it out. It's Woody changing. That's the only way out. Everything else is a waste of time and resources, and all the evidence of Johnson's tenure supports that assertion. Nothing supports the arguments that it can't change. Anything can change when all it is is a choice. I don’t think he’s ever going to change. He’s never had a real job. He likes tinkering with the team and backing politicians. Did you see Joe Douglas at the podium yesterday? He hires first timers he can control because he likes tinkering with the team. He has an army of “business”folks monitoring PR. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, jetsman said: the commanders are pointing in the right direction for once i think. no longer a laughing stock starting next season They've literally done nothing yet but fire a regime Dan himself would have fired at this point. There is nothing (yet) to indicate they're "pointing up" apart from literally anyone being better than the scumbag Dan Snyder, lol. Lets maybe let them make an actual hire before we get too excited, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Also, in terms of wasting an opportunity. The Jets finished 3rd in defensive DVOA and 5th in special teams DVOA. Pretty good. Unfortunately they finished dead last in offense at 32, because Woody couldn’t let go of his QB whose relationship extends well beyond wins and losses. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, Matt39 said: Also, in terms of wasting an opportunity. The Jets finished 3rd in defensive DVOA and 5th in special teams DVOA. Pretty good. Unfortunately they finished dead last in offense at 32, because Woody couldn’t let go of his QB whose relationship extends well beyond wins and losses. Pretty sure Woody supported signing Rodgers, and wasn't in fact seen on the filed twisting Rodgers Achillies to get Zachy-poo back on the field. How will you spin this unbreakable relationship if Zachypoo gets traded this offseason? Because as Owner, there is absolutely nothing forcing Woody to trade Zach. And if it's a relationship, why would Zach want to leave? Woody and Zach could be partners for the next 15 years if they want, if it's for the "relationship that extends beyond wins and losses". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freestater Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Other teams get golden opportunities. We get golden showers. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Warfish said: Pretty sure Woody supported signing Rodgers, and wasn't in fact seen on the filed twisting Rodgers Achillies to get Zachy-poo back on the field. How will you spin this unbreakable relationship if Zachypoo gets traded this offseason? Because as Owner, there is absolutely nothing forcing Woody to trade Zach. And if it's a relationship, why would Zach want to leave? Woody and Zach could be partners for the next 15 years if they want, if it's for the "relationship that extends beyond wins and losses". He's trading him to do his family a favor. Zach might actually want to play NFL football for a real NFL team with a competent OC. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, Warfish said: Pretty sure Woody supported signing Rodgers, and wasn't in fact seen on the filed twisting Rodgers Achillies to get Zachy-poo back on the field. How will you spin this unbreakable relationship if Zachypoo gets traded this offseason? Because as Owner, there is absolutely nothing forcing Woody to trade Zach. And if it's a relationship, why would Zach want to leave? Woody and Zach could be partners for the next 15 years if they want, if it's for the "relationship that extends beyond wins and losses". I think if a proper city/trade partner can be worked out he’ll be traded, but Zach’s team will get final approval. West coast, close to home etc. he’s not getting traded to Buffalo or Detroit for example. If a trade can’t be worked out, he’s likely back. The Jets are the safest spot for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Woody isn't doing anything as long as fans pay for season tickets to watch this go****n circus. Why would he? He doesn't want to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 58 minutes ago, slimjasi said: Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that Harbaugh would be willing to come to New Jersey and work for Woody Johnson in a building where Aaron Rodgers is the Alpha (quite an assumption!) The issue is Woody already committed to JD/Saleh for 2024 and Saleh already committed to bringing back his coordinators - all publicly. Those are not bells you can unring without a scandal. It’s not happening. Scandal? I promissed them they were safe but after realizing they took being safe to mean they could ignore their duty to the team I've decided to upgrade the football management. I realize football is all about competition and putting the idea out that the GM and coaches weren't also part of a competitive world I wasn't being fair to the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 19 minutes ago, Warfish said: It's not? So the only topic allowed is Woody, or shut-down-the-forum silence? Lol, ok Tater. Yes, I'd say at this point everyone here knows that Woody is the root cause/primary responsible entity of our problems. Tell me, how did that work for Carolina when they changed Owners? I presume you think the Commanders are Super Bowl favorites in 2024 right? All it takes is Ownership change? And Snyder was several degrees worse than Woody, after all. Which isn't going to happen. Hence the "windmills" comment. It was your idea to try to shut down the conversation, not mine. I brought up a topic, and like you often do when you don't like the topic, chime in that the topic isn't worthy of being discussed. The real solution to your problem there is for you to just move on to a different thread. Carolina changing owners does not mean a thing to the prospect of the Jets doing the same. There's no scenario imaginable where the franchise can get worse. What's the next owner going to do? Not make the playoffs? You presume I think the Commanders are going to be Super Bowl favs? That's a stretch and you know it. The entirety of the point is that the Jets need change, have the opportunity for change, and choose not to change. It should be simple for a smart guy like you to understand. Your straw men arguments are beneath your history of posting here. See, I could do the same... let's discuss NOT having Woody change his ways and how different things are going to be just out of shear luck or some sense that we're "due". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, dbatesman said: This isn’t a missed opportunity. Woody could clean out everyone at 1JD from Douglas to the lunch ladies and offer Harbaugh $50 million a year and he’d still laugh him off the phone He wouldn't even take the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 10 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said: Woody isn't doing anything as long as fans pay for season tickets to watch this go****n circus. Why would he? He doesn't need to win. FTFY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, Biggs said: Scandal? I promissed them they were safe but after realizing they took being safe to mean they could ignore their duty to the team I've decided to upgrade the football management. I realize football is all about competition and putting the idea out that the GM and coaches weren't also part of a competitive world I wasn't being fair to the players. Woody doesn’t have the balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 13 minutes ago, Matt39 said: I think if a proper city/trade partner can be worked out he’ll be traded, but Zach’s team will get final approval. West coast, close to home etc. he’s not getting traded to Buffalo or Detroit for example. If a trade can’t be worked out, he’s likely back. The Jets are the safest spot for him. Because of Woody, not because of JD. Got it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, dbatesman said: This isn’t a missed opportunity. Woody could clean out everyone at 1JD from Douglas to the lunch ladies and offer Harbaugh $50 million a year and he’d still laugh him off the phone Agreed. Stupid people don't mind working for other morons. Smart people do. That's why Belichick left here for New England as soon as he could. Imagine having to take orders from this smooth-brained f*ckstick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Warfish said: Because of Woody, not because of JD. Got it. Yes. In this instance, yes. If Wilson gets traded to a team far a way from Utah then we can revisit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: It was your idea to try to shut down the conversation, not mine. I brought up a topic, and like you often do when you don't like the topic, chime in that the topic isn't worthy of being discussed. The real solution to your problem there is for you to just move on to a different thread. I commented that your thread was asking for disappointment (which it is) and quite pointless (which it also is) and is just regurgitating the same "Woody sucks" things we've all been saying for many years (which is does). It's a E-wailing wall, and you're crying at it. You know as well as I do that Woody isn't going anywhere, isn't going to sell his cash cow billion dollar franchise because you bitch on the internet about it. And you know Harbaugh isn't coming here, and there was never a chance he would. This is futile venting, and if that makes you happy, as I've said, have at it. And I'll have at my say too. 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: Carolina changing owners does not mean a thing to the prospect of the Jets doing the same. There's no scenario imaginable where the franchise can get worse. What's the next owner going to do? Not make the playoffs? Carolina changing owners is just the most recent and obvious example that changing Owners isn't a panacea. You can replace one bad owner with another bad owner. 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: The entirety of the point is that the Jets need change, have the opportunity for change, and choose not to change. What opportunity? Woody has made his decision, and all your "fans rise up" stuff is just silly talk on the internet, it's meaningless. I'd love change too, obviously, I've called for changes that could actually have happened, like firing the failure JD, dumping Wilson at QB, and firing the worse failure Saleh/Hackett. And quitting this silly Rodgers experiment while we're at it. Real world solutions that had (at the time) a chance of actually happening, albeit a sadly very low chance. "Make Woody sell by Fans rising up" is laughably naive silliness. 20 years of that didn't get Dan Snyder out of DC, it took a literal massive investigation of both rampant blatant sexual discrimination AND his stealing money from the league. The fans had absolutely zero impact on his leaving. 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: Your straw men arguments are beneath your history of posting here. There are no straw men, only an OP who thinks his forum post is going to get an Owner to sell his billion dollar team. And that that action alone will solve all our problems, because it "can't get worse". Best of luck with those windmills, like I said. 7 minutes ago, JetPotato said: See, I could do the same... let's discuss NOT having Woody change his ways and how different things are going to be just out of shear luck or some sense that we're "due". I'd rather discuss what JD can/will do with our O-line, since he's our GM for 2024. And at backup QB. And at WR. And how Rodgers might play at 148 years old. Reality, sad as it is. Not silly fantasy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 13 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Yes. In this instance, yes. If Wilson gets traded to a team far a way from Utah then we can revisit. I'm still a bit confused why Woody would trade him at all given this relationship. Care to explain what's making him trade Wilson elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonCorleone Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, rangerous said: Is woody going to give harbaugh 8 million? And that’s what he’s making at Michigan with a heck of a lot of control. I don’t think saleh makes that much. Woody does not, nor will he EVER pay for a real HC. He has no choice other than to spend on players, but NEVER a coach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, Warfish said: I commented that your thread was asking for disappointment (which it is) and quite pointless (which it also is) and is just regurgitating the same "Woody sucks" things we've all been saying for many years (which is does). It's a E-wailing wall, and you're crying at it. You know as well as I do that Woody isn't going anywhere, isn't going to sell his cash cow billion dollar franchise because you bitch on the internet about it. And you know Harbaugh isn't coming here, and there was never a chance he would. This is futile venting, and if that makes you happy, as I've said, have at it. And I'll have at my say too. Carolina changing owners is just the most recent and obvious example that changing Owners isn't a panacea. You can replace one bad owner with another bad owner. What opportunity? Woody has made his decision, and all your "fans rise up" stuff is just silly talk on the internet, it's meaningless. I'd love change too, obviously, I've called for changes that could actually have happened, like firing the failure JD, dumping Wilson at QB, and firing the worse failure Saleh/Hackett. And quitting this silly Rodgers experiment while we're at it. Real world solutions that had (at the time) a chance of actually happening, albeit a sadly very low chance. "Make Woody sell by Fans rising up" is laughably naive silliness. 20 years of that didn't get Dan Snyder out of DC, it took a literal massive investigation of both rampant blatant sexual discrimination AND his stealing money from the league. The fans had absolutely zero impact on his leaving. There are no straw men, only an OP who thinks his forum post is going to get an Owner to sell his billion dollar team. And that that action alone will solve all our problems, because it "can't get worse". Best of luck with those windmills, like I said. I'd rather discuss what JD can/will do with our O-line, since he's our GM for 2024. And at backup QB. And at WR. And how Rodgers might play at 148 years old. Reality, sad as it is. Not silly fantasy. Can always tell when Warfish is one of his moods. I'll talk to you again next week when hopefully you aren't making a hypocritical fool of yourself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Jim Harbaugh has been and is the exact thing this franchise needs - a culture wrecker and builder. Someone like Parcells with a vision and obsession for winning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 13 minutes ago, JetPotato said: Can always tell when Warfish is one of his moods. Lol, no mood. Just tired of the silly fantasy threads about silly fantasy things. Some of you really need to get in touch with reality. It may suck, but it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 23 minutes ago, Warfish said: I'm still a bit confused why Woody would trade him at all given this relationship. Care to explain what's making him trade Wilson elsewhere? I mean you always want to do right by someone no? The Jets have already bent over backwards protecting him. Not having to meet with the media after starting most of the season is just the latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoni Beast Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Bugg said: Could also hire Jon Gruden who is about to start working for the Saints . But either Gruden or Harbaugh would make the joke owner way less out front in the face of a serious football guy and cost real $. He likes bargain bin coaches and plus Gruden is suing the NFL. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Agreed, I'd prefer Harbaugh but we'll obviously never hire him. I would love Gruden as the head coach here. He was definitely had the Raiders going in the right direction (not a contender yet, but they were headed that way). I think Gruden is going to work his way back up into head coaching opportunities and who knows maybe he is someone we take a look at in a year or two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 hours ago, doitny said: oh and Herbert and the Chargers job is open. thats the most attractive job out there. if im Harbough i go there. I mentioned this elsewhere, but if you think Spanos is "better" than Woody.. that's probably just because you're exposed more to Woody. The Chargers are a bit of a mess. Spanos took a massive load of debt for the move and they still owe a lot of money. His sister is suing him to sell the team because she doesn't believe they have a financial resources to meet their obligations. His brother, John Spanos, is the director of football operations so literally in charge of football decisions. So even if the Chargers are good with paying Harbaugh 20+ million a year for 5+ years.. he may think twice about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waka Flocka Flacco Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: the same "Woody sucks" things we've all been saying for many years (which is does). Woody's big sin is running the team the way Parcells showed him instead of the way Parcells said a team should be run. Rule number one (again) is somebody has to be in charge and everybody has to know who it is. Parcells invented rule number one. Then he wanted to keep buying the groceries when it was Belichick's turn to cook dinner and the rest is history. The buck has not stopped with a single identifiable person at any point since. Everybody reports to Woody. Reports. Like they're running around florham park wearing beetle bailey helmets and trading salutes. It's a system designed by a guy who doesn't think his own rules apply to him and implemented by a ragtag bunch of misfits and nepo babies. How's that goink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetPotato Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 18 minutes ago, Warfish said: Lol, no mood. Just tired of the silly fantasy threads about silly fantasy things. Some of you really need to get in touch with reality. It may suck, but it is what it is. You didn't even read the thread, clearly, and by your own admission. But you do you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, JetPotato said: But you do you. I always do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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