jetspenguin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 21 minutes ago, defensedoesntgetyoulaid said: Wow, you criticise people for a lack of respect for the situation and then refer to people with drug addictions as 'junkies'. Amazing! Actually, I diudnt critice people for their lack of respect for the situation at all. I said 1. I dont understand the humor 2, I clarified a common misconception about economic disparity and addictive behavior. You want attention or something? Junkies is not a deroggative term for an addict and if you knew anything about it then you would have known that. To clarity, not every addicted person is a junkie. There are levels to addictive behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 20 minutes ago, Warfish said: Just like the "political will" failed to stop every illicit substance that's come before this, and will fail to stop every illicit drug that will come after. Addition is a medical/mental health issue. Not a criminal issue. And we're veering VERY close to the "no politics' rule here, so maybe we should focus on policy and the OP, and not politics, eh. "Political will" is an ambiguous term. Regardless of the methods, what political will actually means is "money". The will to use tax money to solve problems. You seem to be compelled to believe my use of the term "political will" means that I only see one tool that can be used. The law enforcement hammer. There would be a number of ways that would be needed to address the drug issue. Both the supply side of the market and the demand side of the market. And one thing to keep in mind.,, Many left leaning people believe that economic inequality is the prime mover in drug abuse. And here we have a hyper wealthy NFL owner with a very serious addition. Some countries like Portugal have handled the problem with decriminalization. Other countries have used the authoritarian hammer. With both approaches, there have been measures of success and failure. It would take the "political will" and aptitude to build a program that understands and addresses both the supply and demand sides of the market with the right tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, The Crusher said: It’s a choice we make, period, love you Brother. hmmm....you would think so but it really doesnt workl that way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, jetspenguin said: hmmm....you would think so but it really doesnt workl that way I'm not going to get into it and I can only speak from personal(myself, not friend or family in this case) experience with addiction. It is a choice. That's all I got my friend. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, The Crusher said: I'm not going to get into it and I can only speak from personal(myself, not friend or family in this case) experience with addiction. It is a choice. That's all I got my friend. Fair enough, I worked in the field for 15 years and have family/friends that have fallen to addiction so unfortunately it is a mixed bag. For some people they can just put it down, stop cold turkey and walk away, for others and depending on the drug they have an inability to make that turn for the good. It's sad all around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 12 minutes ago, jetspenguin said: hmmm....you would think so but it really doesnt workl that way Yeah, it does. What leads to that bad choice is bad/ineffectual education and bad parenting. Even if a person suffering from depression or some other mental disorder uses illicit drugs to "self medicate" it is still a choice made due to ignorance. The question is, would a person be guilty of making bad choices due to ignorance ??? I'd say, yes and no. Once you are addicted, you cant make good choices regardless. Complicated, but the individual has to have ownership of his/her actions. Getting treatment is a choice too, no ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Just now, THE BARON said: Yeah, it does. What leads to that bad choice is bad/ineffectual education and bad parenting. Even if a person suffering from depression or some other mental disorder uses illicit drugs to "self medicate" it is still a choice made due to ignorance. The question is, would a person be guilty of making bad choices due to ignorance ??? I'd say, yes and no. Once you are addicted, you cant make good choices regardless. Complicated, but the individual has to have ownership of his/her actions. Getting treatment is a choice too, no ??? wait....you think that bad choices are the results of bad parenting and/or bad education? That is a seperate question but no I dont agree at all. You can be a great parent and your child can attend the finest school and they can still make poor choices. It wouldnt be due to a lack of knowledge but moreso becaus your people's frontal lobes are not fully developed and they sometimes make poor decisions. People fall into drug addiction even if there is NO history or issues with mentsal disorders or depression. In fact it is a common occurance that people will experiment with friends or alone and are not aware of the addiction until it is too late. The moment to decipher they have gone too far has already passed. Once under the influence the rational thinking and good decision making skills are now altered. It is not true that once addicted you "cannot" make good choices or no-one would ever recover, you just need to clear your head of the drug and most need additional support in those moments of weakness. and no....not everyone needs treatment....you would be surprised. Addiction is not a one size fits all experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 10 minutes ago, jetspenguin said: wait....you think that bad choices are the results of bad parenting and/or bad education? That is a seperate question but no I dont agree at all. You can be a great parent and your child can attend the finest school and they can still make poor choices. It wouldnt be due to a lack of knowledge but moreso becaus your people's frontal lobes are not fully developed and they sometimes make poor decisions. And that fact can not be taught to people ??? Understanding that will not influence people to resist making a lifer altering choice ??? Along with that, making it clear to people QED what will become of them if they make such a decision will not help them resist making a disastrous choice ??? Once you remove the understood weight personal responsibility, the battle is lost for many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Kleckineau said: Fair enough but I doubt Irsay and the people in his economic strata are getting the more dangerous street garbage. Not that pharma grade oxy isnt dangerous its just that the street stuff dosage content is wholely unpredictable and as such more deadly. If it was fentanyl it was probably prescribed by a quack doctor just like Michael Jackson and prince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, docdhc said: The guy has a serious addiction problem which doesn’t seem that funny to me. Thank you. For a moment, I thought I wondered onto an Eagles site. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 8 minutes ago, THE BARON said: And that fact can not be taught to people ??? Understanding that will not influence people to resist making a lifer altering choice ??? Along with that, making it clear to people QED what will become of them if they make such a decision will not help them resist making a disastrous choice ??? Once you remove the understood weight personal responsibility, the battle is lost for many. I dont disagree with all of your post, just with the simplistic nature of it. As in 1+ 1= 2 in all cases...in addiction 1+1 can equal 13, there are too many factors to paint the demographic with one brush. You can teach, monitor, encourage, nuture and implement consequences and people will still make their own choices. One of the strangest fact about addiction is that people try drugs and think they will NEVER be addicted. Despite all the information, warnings and stories they undoubtedly have heard. NO-ONE starts experimentation with the belief they will become addicted, they never think it will happen to them. This is one of the most common stories you will hear from addicts. People dont factor in long term consequences when they do not believe that will ever be their circumstance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, Kleckineau said: Since Jim Irsay took over in 1995, the Colts have compiled a 258-191 regular season record. The 258 wins are the fourth-most in the NFL over that time frame. The team has won 10 division titles, made the playoffs 18 times, appeared in two Super Bowls and won Super Bowl XLI. Another indictment of the Jets ownership. This drug addled cretin can effectively run a team in between comas while the Jets clown car goes off a cliff on an annual basis. manning and luck really helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 what is crazy that his mistress died of an OD years ago. if i was an addicted billionaire i'd make sure that my butler had Narcan at all times. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtina Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, docdhc said: Peyton Manning made ownership competence irrelevant Well the ownership is responsible for him being there, yeah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan56 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 I am impressed that this thread changed from poking fun at someone to a frank discussion of addiction. I think I will continue to come back here Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, jetspenguin said: I dont disagree with all of your post, just with the simplistic nature of it. As in 1+ 1= 2 in all cases...in addiction 1+1 can equal 13, there are too many factors to paint the demographic with one brush. You can teach, monitor, encourage, nuture and implement consequences and people will still make their own choices. One of the strangest fact about addiction is that people try drugs and think they will NEVER be addicted. Despite all the information, warnings and stories they undoubtedly have heard. NO-ONE starts experimentation with the belief they will become addicted, they never think it will happen to them. This is one of the most common stories you will hear from addicts. People dont factor in long term consequences when they do not believe that will ever be their circumstance. All points well taken. Referring back to my statement about bad parenting and lack of education where it relates to substance abuse. Bad parenting does not have to involve abuse or willful neglect. It can include insufficient and or ineffective communication. You mention that people don't factor in long term consequences. That is absolutely cogent. However, the lack of understanding comes from a lack of effective communication. By trade/occupation, I am a career sales professional. I also do freelance advertising work. Choices can be made by people for logical reasons or emotional reasons. Both of those decision making motivations can absolutely be strongly motivated by communication. You can get consumers to buy a rock and experience joy in the process if the packaging and communication is done effectively. That being said, if the communication is effective, you can prevent bad choices. I'm NOT suggesting that empathy and understanding should be withheld. I'm saying that any individual can be conditioned/trained against making bad choices if the communication is effective. Behavioral changes are motivated by attitudinal changes. A person need not suffer the horrors of addition first in order to understand the consequences in an emotional sense. That emotional attitude can be instilled prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 32 minutes ago, batman10023 said: manning and luck really helped. Irsay hires all the execs that run the team I would say he has done a good job for a guy with significant personal issues. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, THE BARON said: Yeah, it does. What leads to that bad choice is bad/ineffectual education and bad parenting. Even if a person suffering from depression or some other mental disorder uses illicit drugs to "self medicate" it is still a choice made due to ignorance. The question is, would a person be guilty of making bad choices due to ignorance ??? I'd say, yes and no. Once you are addicted, you cant make good choices regardless. Complicated, but the individual has to have ownership of his/her actions. Getting treatment is a choice too, no ??? I've seen young, squared away people that get in car accidents, sports injuries etc get prescribed Percocet... and it's over for them. It's all about Brain Chemistry. Some people are super sensitive in certain receptors and just a 2 week course of pain meds ruins their life. It is what it is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said: I've seen young, squared away people that get in car accidents, sports injuries etc get prescribed Percocet... and it's over for them. It's all about Brain Chemistry. Some people are super sensitive in certain receptors and just a 2 week course of pain meds ruins their life. It is what it is. Yep, personally that type of medication only gave me constipation and night terrors. I could never get the attraction, but as someone who treats injured people for a living I've seen what you mention happen more than once. It's truly awful. I also saw this documentary thing where bunch of suburban weirdo's took turns hurting themselves and getting pain pills to share with the group. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said: I've seen young, squared away people that get in car accidents, sports injuries etc get prescribed Percocet... and it's over for them. It's all about Brain Chemistry. Some people are super sensitive in certain receptors and just a 2 week course of pain meds ruins their life. It is what it is. Have to be very careful with opioids. Had them prescribed post meniscus (right 2x, left 1x) and torn rotator cuff. Took them very sparingly and have a mess in a safe (in case of a zombie apocalypse or general dystopia) . Was a much more law&order guy growing up and professionally but found pot gummies were a better choice to deal with the pain. And much less dangerous. Believe me, when the nerve block wore off from rotator cuff, could barely sleep without gummies, and all the oxy did was make me dull and dopey. Reminder anything can be overused, and you can become mentally addicted even if pot isn't necessarily physically addictive as oxy. Think the advocates for marijuana generally oversell it but it has a role and is still way better than the hard alternatives. My experience may be anecdotal but I've heard it from lots of people and doctors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex-n-effect Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 This thread went exactly where I expected after reading concocted scare tactics like fentanyl laced marijuana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said: I've seen young, squared away people that get in car accidents, sports injuries etc get prescribed Percocet... and it's over for them. It's all about Brain Chemistry. Some people are super sensitive in certain receptors and just a 2 week course of pain meds ruins their life. I can't respond to that. I have no idea how may addicts got hooked by prescribed medication vs. those that get hooked on illicit recreational drugs. Outliers or lots of them ??? And did they *decide* to get non prescribed drugs on their own rather than tell a doctor they are hooked and need treatment ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said: This thread went exactly where I expected after reading concocted scare tactics like fentanyl laced marijuana. It's not common. But if you buy pot on the street rather than a licensed reputable dealer, could happen. There's no quality control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 7 minutes ago, Bugg said: It's not common. But if you buy pot on the street rather than a licensed reputable dealer, could happen. There's no quality control. good thing booze is all on the up and up. no chance of running into trouble there... 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, batman10023 said: what is crazy that his mistress died of an OD years ago. if i was an addicted billionaire i'd make sure that my butler had Narcan at all times. I'd setup one of those private ERs right next door 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 minutes ago, Bugg said: It's not common. But if you buy pot on the street rather than a licensed reputable dealer, could happen. There's no quality control. I buy from licensed and reputable dealers and the risk of buying something that sends you into the shadow realm when it's not supposed to is still absurdly high. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: I buy from licensed and reputable dealers and the risk of buying something that sends you into the shadow realm when it's not supposed to is still absurdly high. Fact. Candy shouldn’t send you to another dimension. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 17 minutes ago, THE BARON said: good thing booze is all on the up and up. no chance of running into trouble there... 😕 Well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 hours ago, The Crusher said: I'd go with pathetic. Billions of dollars and he choses to almost kill himself with drugs. Awwww, poor thing. please dude. I’m not sure he chose is right. Addiction makes people lose control of themselves. I am inclined to be sympathetic rather than judgmental. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, Bugg said: Well... Exactly... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, docdhc said: I’m not sure he chose is right. Addiction makes people lose control of themselves. I am inclined to be sympathetic rather than judgmental. That's good. Personally life has taught me that that we have a choice until we pick the wrong choice so many times we no longer get a choice. But it always starts with a choice. So choose wisely my friends. choose wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, docdhc said: I’m not sure he chose is right. Addiction makes people lose control of themselves. I am inclined to be sympathetic rather than judgmental. Agree with both sides. It is a choice. A bad one that can be avoided, but not everyone has been trained against it. Once an addict or soon to be addict makes the bad choices, I have empathy for them. They have a hand in their illness, but it is an illness none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, THE BARON said: I can't respond to that. I have no idea how may addicts got hooked by prescribed medication vs. those that get hooked on illicit recreational drugs. Outliers or lots of them ??? And did they *decide* to get non prescribed drugs on their own rather than tell a doctor they are hooked and need treatment ? Yes. People in car accidents that fracture their pelvis or damage the spine usually decide to do so. You know, fer the druuuugs, duuuude.... Did you know that the International Association of Firefighters has an entire huge treatment center, "The IAFF Center for Excellence" in Maryland that exists to help FF's with addiction issues? Yep. Never been there personally, but when I destroyed my ankle on the job back in 2011 and had 2 surgeries, I was prescribed about as much Perc as I could get. And damn right I took them. That sh*t hurt bad, the only way I could initially do PT, lie down to sleep or even use my Knee Scooter (didn't walk for 6 months) was by taking the edge off. Luckily, when I was recovering and stopped taking them, my brain was more interested in Guinness than more opiates. Not everyone is wired the same... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 50 minutes ago, THE BARON said: good thing booze is all on the up and up. no chance of running into trouble there... 😕 Your point is well taken but when you got to the liquor store to buy a bottle of 80 proof you get 80 proof. Counterfeit oxy is never the same and sometimes one pill is lethal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 4 minutes ago, Kleckineau said: Your point is well taken but when you got to the liquor store to buy a bottle of 80 proof you get 80 proof. Counterfeit oxy is never the same and sometimes one pill is lethal. i dig fully. the next dose could be the last. with booze, i think things can be more insidious. the stuff is legal and quality/content controlled. how can it become a problem ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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