Bryce Huff Discussion

[Smashmouth]

When I look at Huff he is actually in the perfect position right now. The reason I say this is because the Jets really never played with a lead so Huff's chances rushing the passer were much less than they would normally be in a competent offense. You have to figure with Aaron Rodgers at QB the Jets will be playing with a lead at a higher percentage than last year by a large margin which in turn leads to more opportunities for Huff to rush the passer especially in the 4th quarter when sacks really count the most.

Having him fresh and not beat down by the running game is in the best interest of both Huff and any team he winds up playing for. If he thinks playing every down is the ticket to more money I think he's dead wrong and I do not think anyone will sign him as an every down player and throw 20 mil per at him he's just not big enough to take that kind of pounding. If our offense gets us some leads I bet Huff can easily approach 15 sacks and on the flip side if Huff goes somewhere else as this "every down" guy he wants to be I think his numbers go down and I think he also opens himself up for fatigue in the 4th quarter and also possible Injury since I do not think his frame can handle the pounding of a good running game.

I say we offer Huff a 3 or 4 year deal in the 13-15 range with 25-30 mil guaranteed. I think on the low side of 13 mil per you offer some incentives to sweeten the deal and at 15 mil no incentives.

If Huff is dead set on moving on then wish him luck as he gets paid but has issues staying on the field.

 

[chirorob]

They drafted McDonald to be the next Huff, you aren't keeping 2 undersized pass rushers.

I mean, they could have just extended Huff last year, and drafted a WR, but whatever.

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, chirorob said:

They drafted McDonald to be the next Huff, you aren't keeping 2 undersized pass rushers.

I mean, they could have just extended Huff last year, and drafted a WR, but whatever.

Probably what they should have done. I hated the McDonald pick ... I dont hate the player just the pick because I agree a WR would have made 100% more sense OL as well. 

[JohnnyLV]

14 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

When I look at Huff he is actually in the perfect position right now. The reason I say this is because the Jets really never played with a lead so Huff's chances rushing the passer were much less than they would normally be in a competent offense. You have to figure with Aaron Rodgers at QB the Jets will be playing with a lead at a higher percentage than last year by a large margin which in turn leads to more opportunities for Huff to rush the passer especially in the 4th quarter when sacks really count the most.

Having him fresh and not beat down by the running game is in the best interest of both Huff and any team he winds up playing for. If he thinks playing every down is the ticket to more money I think he's dead wrong and I do not think anyone will sign him as an every down player and throw 20 mil per at him he's just not big enough to take that kind of pounding. If our offense gets us some leads I bet Huff can easily approach 15 sacks and on the flip side if Huff goes somewhere else as this "every down" guy he wants to be I think his numbers go down and I think he also opens himself up for fatigue in the 4th quarter and also possible Injury since I do not think his frame can handle the pounding of a good running game.

I say we offer Huff a 3 or 4 year deal in the 13-15 range with 25-30 mil guaranteed. I think on the low side of 13 mil per you offer some incentives to sweeten the deal and at 15 mil no incentives.

If Huff is dead set on moving on then wish him luck as he gets paid but has issues staying on the field.

 

He's an UFA. Franchise tag is basically what you are suggesting we offer for a 4 year contract. No way he accepts that. Essentially we control him for 2 tags so the guaranteed money is going to need to be in the range of those two combined so somewhere around $50 million with probably somewhere around you full contract value as a signing bonus.

I see a couple options:

1. Transition tag

2. Allow him to negotiate with other teams and then work out a tag and trade compensation with the other team so they don't have to compete for him, Huff goes where he wants, we get a draft pick or swap.

Compensatory pick is not an option as we will sign a bunch of FAs this offseason.

[varjet]

8 minutes ago, chirorob said:

They drafted McDonald to be the next Huff, you aren't keeping 2 undersized pass rushers.

I mean, they could have just extended Huff last year, and drafted a WR, but whatever.

The Jets made their decision.  Most of us don't agree with it.  They did not know Huff would be as good as he was in 2023, but they should have.  We don't self scout.

The decision for 2023 should have been an OT/WR, maybe with a trade down, and extend Huff.  That would have been the best thing for the 2023 Jets.  that decision was not made.  

But the best thing we can do for 2024 is save the money on Huff and sign offensive players, rolling with McD, JFM and JJ2.  

If someone wants to trade for McD and we extend Huff, I can see that.

If JFM and Mosley take less money and we find a way to sign Huff, maybe that works too.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

He gone. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 1/24/2024 at 12:26 PM, Smashmouth said:

When I look at Huff he is actually in the perfect position right now. The reason I say this is because the Jets really never played with a lead so Huff's chances rushing the passer were much less than they would normally be in a competent offense. You have to figure with Aaron Rodgers at QB the Jets will be playing with a lead at a higher percentage than last year by a large margin which in turn leads to more opportunities for Huff to rush the passer especially in the 4th quarter when sacks really count the most.

Having him fresh and not beat down by the running game is in the best interest of both Huff and any team he winds up playing for. If he thinks playing every down is the ticket to more money I think he's dead wrong and I do not think anyone will sign him as an every down player and throw 20 mil per at him he's just not big enough to take that kind of pounding. If our offense gets us some leads I bet Huff can easily approach 15 sacks and on the flip side if Huff goes somewhere else as this "every down" guy he wants to be I think his numbers go down and I think he also opens himself up for fatigue in the 4th quarter and also possible Injury since I do not think his frame can handle the pounding of a good running game.

I say we offer Huff a 3 or 4 year deal in the 13-15 range with 25-30 mil guaranteed. I think on the low side of 13 mil per you offer some incentives to sweeten the deal and at 15 mil no incentives.

If Huff is dead set on moving on then wish him luck as he gets paid but has issues staying on the field.

 

We did this barely a week ago, no? 

He doesn't re-sign here under the terms you want just because you want him to. He's shopping around for the best (starting) situation and the best money, and said as much. The Jets likely fill neither of those desires to him.

Therefore, Huff isn't taking anything the Jets are offering now, short of the ridiculous $20MM/year range he's not earned. He will not accept your proposed offer unless he first shops himself around and your proposition is the best offer he gets by a comfortable margin. He is dead set on moving on, probably unless the Jets outbid the next team by like $3-5MM/year with at least another $5-7MM fully guaranteed more than the next-best offer.

When a player publicly says he doesn't want to play here, you should believe him. When such statements are purely negotiating tactics, the players say they do want to stay but we'll see how that works out. That's not the case here. He's earned his UFA status and he'd be a fool to not see what else is out there by having a career-best season as his RFA-tag year ended.

For him it's not just salary per season. It's also an opportunity to start, which isn't getting granted here under Saleh, and there's no way the Jets can guarantee that beyond a handshake anyway. By the way, starting is also money-security beyond the guarantee, too. If he's not starting - and he won't start here - he becomes more expendable as a cap casualty the moment that guaranteed portion is over, where the only way around that is for him to put up ~15 sacks per season in situational duty.

He's gone. Prepare thyself. If they unexpectedly re-sign him, then it happens and you can point and laugh at me.

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, varjet said:

The Jets made their decision.  Most of us don't agree with it.  They did not know Huff would be as good as he was in 2023, but they should have.  We don't self scout.

The decision for 2023 should have been an OT/WR, maybe with a trade down, and extend Huff.  That would have been the best thing for the 2023 Jets.  that decision was not made.  

But the best thing we can do for 2024 is save the money on Huff and sign offensive players, rolling with McD, JFM and JJ2.  

If someone wants to trade for McD and we extend Huff, I can see that.

If JFM and Mosley take less money and we find a way to sign Huff, maybe that works too.  

Yeah pretty much this ! 

A tag is 23 mil ... that's not happening 

I think the chances are slim he signs here But I think he's in for a rude awakening I'm not sure what he thinks he's going to get but playing every down and getting the money that goes along with that probably wont be an option. 

What's the situation with Lawson ? Is it detrimental to cut him ? If not there should be plenty of money freed up. Not saying that needs to be spent on Huff since OL and WR need to be priority. 

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Yeah pretty much this ! 

A tag is 23 mil ... that's not happening 

I think the chances are slim he signs here But I think he's in for a rude awakening I'm not sure what he thinks he's going to get but playing every down and getting the money that goes along with that probably wont be an option. 

What's the situation with Lawson ? Is it detrimental to cut him ? If not there should be plenty of money freed up. Not saying that needs to be spent on Huff since OL and WR need to be priority. 

Lawson is a free agent in March. Letting him go doesn't free up any money because he's not on the team's payroll in '24 as it is.

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We did this barely a week ago, no? 

He doesn't re-sign here under the terms you want just because you want him to. He's shopping around for the best (starting) situation and the best money, and said as much. The Jets likely have neither of those desires to offer him.

Therefore, Huff isn't taking anything the Jets are offering now, short of the ridiculous $20MM/year range he's not earned. He will not accept your proposed offer unless he first shops himself around and your proposition is the best offer he gets by a comfortable margin. He is dead set on moving on, probably unless the Jets outbid the next team by like $3-5MM/year with at least another $5-7MM fully guaranteed more than the next-best offer.

When a player publicly says he doesn't want to play here, you should believe him. When such statements are purely negotiating tactics, the players say they do want to stay but we'll see how that works out. That's not the case here. He's earned his UFA status and he'd be a fool to not see what else is out there by having a career-best season as his RFA-tag year ended.

For him it's not just salary per season. It's also an opportunity to start, which isn't getting granted here under Saleh, and there's no way the Jets can guarantee that beyond a handshake anyway. By the way, starting is also money-security beyond the guarantee, too. If he's not starting - and he won't start here - he becomes more expendable as a cap casualty the moment that guaranteed portion is over, where the only way around that is for him to put up ~15 sacks per season in situational duty.

He's gone. Prepare thyself. If they unexpectedly re-sign him, then it happens and you can point and laugh at me.

Sperm we did do this a week ago ... But lets forget about the starting every down crap smoke screen for a second. 

hypothetical --- If a team offers him 13 mil to be an every down player and another team offers him 20 mil to be a pass rushing specialist ( I know the numbers are skewed I'm just making a point)  Who do you think Huff is playing for ?

He never said he didn't want to play here he said he wants to be an every down player/starter I'm guessing that statement would/could include the Jets . He didn't say "I don't want to play for the Jets anymore !" You are obviously reading between the lines but money usually makes all that bullsh*t go away. While I agree with what your saying you can't rule anything out its all part of negotiating. 

Huff has to know, you would think, that he does not have the frame to play every down or on running down's and I think if he luckily gets that type of deal his numbers will diminish as will his health. Douglas knows this and will let it play out.

I'm not saying we should or should not try to re-sign Huff just discussing the entire scenario.

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Lawson is a free agent in March. Letting him go doesn't free up any money because he's not on the team's payroll in '24 as it is.

Cool that's what I wanted to know . Thank god he's off the payroll . 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Sperm we did do this a week ago ... But lets forget about the starting every down crap smoke screen for a second. 

hypothetical --- If a team offers him 13 mil to be an every down player and another team offers him 20 mil to be a pass rushing specialist ( I know the numbers are skewed I'm just making a point)  Who do you think Huff is playing for ?

He never said he didn't want to play here he said he wants to be an every down player/starter I'm guessing that statement would/could include the Jets . He didn't say "I don't want to play for the Jets anymore !" You are obviously reading between the lines but money usually makes all that bullsh*t go away. While I agree with what your saying you can't rule anything out its all part of negotiating. 

Huff has to know, you would think, that he does not have the frame to play every down or on running down's and I think if he luckily gets that type of deal his numbers will diminish as will his health. Douglas knows this and will let it play out.

I'm not saying we should or should not try to re-sign Huff just discussing the entire scenario.

He said he wants to be in a system where he can start. The whole point of that statement is to communicate the inferred second half of that thought: "...and I know that isn't with the Jets."

I already said they'd have to probably beat the next team by $3-5MM, so yeah if the Jets offer him $20MM/year not only is it outbidding the next-highest $13MM (in your scenario) by 50%, but it further infers he would start since no one pays a situational player that much. 

My point - and I know I lay it on thick, but by now you should be able to get past that with me - is he's not simply re-signing here under the terms you desire. If it was in the cards it would've been done already when Douglas belatedly opened up extension talks midseason. AFTER those extension talks yielded the following, that he's seeking:

1. The highest bidder. This likely won't be the Jets, and he's publicly said there will be no hometown discount of any sort.

2. A system where he will be a full-time player. This 100% won't be the Jets.

He isn't re-signing here unless he's badly overestimated the market that'll be out there for him. 

[Smashmouth]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He said he wants to be in a system where he can start. The whole point of that statement is to communicate the inferred second half of that thought: "...and I know that isn't with the Jets."

I already said they'd have to probably beat the next team by $3-5MM, so yeah if the Jets offer him $20MM/year not only is it outbidding the next-highest $13MM (in your scenario) by 50%, but it further infers he would start since no one pays a situational player that much. 

My point - and I know I lay it on thick, but by now you should be able to get past that with me - is he's not simply re-signing here under the terms you desire. If it was in the cards it would've been done already when Douglas belatedly opened up extension talks midseason. AFTER those extension talks yielded the following, that he's seeking:

1. The highest bidder. This likely won't be the Jets, and he's publicly said there will be no hometown discount of any sort.

2. A system where he will be a full-time player. This 100% won't be the Jets.

He isn't re-signing here unless he's badly overestimated the market that'll be out there for him. 

I was just using the 13 mil and 20 mil to make a clear point. 

Forget the Jets for a minute. If team A offers him a better compensation package as a specialist than Team B who wants him to start you will see how fast his mind changes. I say that because it may be his only option . He's not going to get the money he wants and he's not going to be a full time starter like a Mack or a Miller in their Prime (similar Size/weight). 

Now its only a slight disagreement but I feel Huff put that comment out there as a tactic, not as a reason to leave the Jets. I think he put that out there thinking the Jets would come running and they didn't nor should they. It will be interesting to see what teams offer. 

 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

When I look at Huff he is actually in the perfect position right now. The reason I say this is because the Jets really never played with a lead so Huff's chances rushing the passer were much less than they would normally be in a competent offense. You have to figure with Aaron Rodgers at QB the Jets will be playing with a lead at a higher percentage than last year by a large margin which in turn leads to more opportunities for Huff to rush the passer especially in the 4th quarter when sacks really count the most.

Having him fresh and not beat down by the running game is in the best interest of both Huff and any team he winds up playing for. If he thinks playing every down is the ticket to more money I think he's dead wrong and I do not think anyone will sign him as an every down player and throw 20 mil per at him he's just not big enough to take that kind of pounding. If our offense gets us some leads I bet Huff can easily approach 15 sacks and on the flip side if Huff goes somewhere else as this "every down" guy he wants to be I think his numbers go down and I think he also opens himself up for fatigue in the 4th quarter and also possible Injury since I do not think his frame can handle the pounding of a good running game.

I say we offer Huff a 3 or 4 year deal in the 13-15 range with 25-30 mil guaranteed. I think on the low side of 13 mil per you offer some incentives to sweeten the deal and at 15 mil no incentives.

If Huff is dead set on moving on then wish him luck as he gets paid but has issues staying on the field.

 

Nope.  He was a UDFA find who was coached well.  Do it again.  Find some late-round talent/UDFA and coach them up.  Macdonald has to step up and fill Huff's roll.  Jermaine Johnson will be in year three and hopefully ready to fill that role as well.

We have to use an asset (Huff) to get either draft capital or a piece to the offense puzzle. It is time to invest in about 4-5 OL, another TE, and 2 more WR.  That is what this offense legitimately needs, or a 41-year-old version of Aaron Rodgers is going to look rather middle-of-the-pack-ish at best.  

I think we should resign Becton, move AVT to Left guard, fill the guard/Right Tackle positions in free agency, and then move down in the draft to fill as many of the above targets mentioned.  This team needs offense.  We have enough F/A's we already have to resign on defense.  Gotta use an asset to get something for the 'O.'

[CanadaSteve]

31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He said he wants to be in a system where he can start. The whole point of that statement is to communicate the inferred second half of that thought: "...and I know that isn't with the Jets."

I already said they'd have to probably beat the next team by $3-5MM, so yeah if the Jets offer him $20MM/year not only is it outbidding the next-highest $13MM (in your scenario) by 50%, but it further infers he would start since no one pays a situational player that much. 

My point - and I know I lay it on thick, but by now you should be able to get past that with me - is he's not simply re-signing here under the terms you desire. If it was in the cards it would've been done already when Douglas belatedly opened up extension talks midseason. AFTER those extension talks yielded the following, that he's seeking:

1. The highest bidder. This likely won't be the Jets, and he's publicly said there will be no hometown discount of any sort.

2. A system where he will be a full-time player. This 100% won't be the Jets.

He isn't re-signing here unless he's badly overestimated the market that'll be out there for him. 

That is why if JD's phone rings in the next 6 odd weeks, and somebody offers a 2nd for him, you gaffah in the phone while secretly pumping your fist in the air, then say "Alright, if that is the best you can do."

If this offense doesn't put up 20 points minimum next year, it is time to move on from the regime.  And this coming from a guy who likes JD and is non-commital on Saleh!

 

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

When I look at Huff he is actually in the perfect position right now. The reason I say this is because the Jets really never played with a lead so Huff's chances rushing the passer were much less than they would normally be in a competent offense. You have to figure with Aaron Rodgers at QB the Jets will be playing with a lead at a higher percentage than last year by a large margin which in turn leads to more opportunities for Huff to rush the passer especially in the 4th quarter when sacks really count the most.

Having him fresh and not beat down by the running game is in the best interest of both Huff and any team he winds up playing for. If he thinks playing every down is the ticket to more money I think he's dead wrong and I do not think anyone will sign him as an every down player and throw 20 mil per at him he's just not big enough to take that kind of pounding. If our offense gets us some leads I bet Huff can easily approach 15 sacks and on the flip side if Huff goes somewhere else as this "every down" guy he wants to be I think his numbers go down and I think he also opens himself up for fatigue in the 4th quarter and also possible Injury since I do not think his frame can handle the pounding of a good running game.

I say we offer Huff a 3 or 4 year deal in the 13-15 range with 25-30 mil guaranteed. I think on the low side of 13 mil per you offer some incentives to sweeten the deal and at 15 mil no incentives.

If Huff is dead set on moving on then wish him luck as he gets paid but has issues staying on the field.

 

This is very interesting. Sack totals for the Jets should increase significantly with them playing with a lead. This defense was built for the 4th quarter and they never got there most weeks.

I think it is going to come down to the open market. Does someone want to make Huff a day one free agent signing? If so, there is nothing the Jets can do.

If Huff is still a free agent, even one week in, they have a shot. Hufff could bet on himself on a short term deal. Or they could sign one of those back loaded big number deals that make the agents look good but never get fully paid.

I would like to have him back but I just don't see how they can spend that much $ on defense. Have to allocate these dollars to offense.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I was just using the 13 mil and 20 mil to make a clear point. 

Forget the Jets for a minute. If team A offers him a better compensation package as a specialist than Team B who wants him to start you will see how fast his mind changes. I say that because it may be his only option . He's not going to get the money he wants and he's not going to be a full time starter like a Mack or a Miller in their Prime (similar Size/weight). 

Now its only a slight disagreement but I feel Huff put that comment out there as a tactic, not as a reason to leave the Jets. I think he put that out there thinking the Jets would come running and they didn't nor should they. It will be interesting to see what teams offer. 

 

I realize they were exaggerations, but the very point stands: the Jets would probably have to blow the 2nd-highest bid out of the water to keep Huff.

The theoretical team A team B scenario doesn't apply to Huff because he certainly will get at worst one team to make him a starter offer. Further, it's not like players don't turn down more money for what they perceive is a better situation elsewhere. If that wasn't the case then Orlando Brown would've been in a Jets uniform this season, going back to James Farrior never would've gone to Pittsburgh. 

With Huff, by taking a situational contract - which is higher than the starting contract he'd get elsewhere in your supposition, which is pretty unlikely on that front alone - he is capping his potential. Talented players bet on themselves all the time. Sometimes they bet and lose, but it happens. Not everyone wants to have "the best job in the NFL" as a backup QB: unless they're really old & feel it that their bodies won't take it anymore, they all want to start.  

I couldn't disagree more with your last statement (why stop disagreeing now?):

There are a bunch of tactics players use to get a team to "come running" - two months into extension negotiations, mind you - but they don't involve the strong insinuation that he wants to play in a different system than his current team plays. That's no tactic at all, because it announces in advance that if he's retained he only came back 100% because no one else offered nearly the same money, because outside of that he still really doesn't want to be here.

If that's his tactic it's the worst tactic ever. That's a tactic that gets his current team to pull away from all negotiations because no one wants to guarantee two seasons of starter money to a situation player who truly wishes he was on a different team in a different defense.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

That is why if JD's phone rings in the next 6 odd weeks, and somebody offers a 2nd for him, you gaffah in the phone while secretly pumping your fist in the air, then say "Alright, if that is the best you can do."

If this offense doesn't put up 20 points minimum next year, it is time to move on from the regime.  And this coming from a guy who likes JD and is non-commital on Saleh!

 

Why would someone offer a 2nd for Huff?

He's not under contract with the Jets.

Unless someone not only wants the franchise tag amount to be the basis for an extension with Huff, but feels that such a contract offer would have competition from another team, no one would offer the Jets anything at all.

The team would never ring JD, and instead would simply wait until March to offer Huff $20-23MM/year as a UFA and keep their 2nd rounder, because no one else is one-upping them after offering him such a ridiculous contract.

[extmenace]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

When I look at Huff he is actually in the perfect position right now. The reason I say this is because the Jets really never played with a lead so Huff's chances rushing the passer were much less than they would normally be in a competent offense. You have to figure with Aaron Rodgers at QB the Jets will be playing with a lead at a higher percentage than last year by a large margin which in turn leads to more opportunities for Huff to rush the passer especially in the 4th quarter when sacks really count the most.

Having him fresh and not beat down by the running game is in the best interest of both Huff and any team he winds up playing for. If he thinks playing every down is the ticket to more money I think he's dead wrong and I do not think anyone will sign him as an every down player and throw 20 mil per at him he's just not big enough to take that kind of pounding. If our offense gets us some leads I bet Huff can easily approach 15 sacks and on the flip side if Huff goes somewhere else as this "every down" guy he wants to be I think his numbers go down and I think he also opens himself up for fatigue in the 4th quarter and also possible Injury since I do not think his frame can handle the pounding of a good running game.

I say we offer Huff a 3 or 4 year deal in the 13-15 range with 25-30 mil guaranteed. I think on the low side of 13 mil per you offer some incentives to sweeten the deal and at 15 mil no incentives.

If Huff is dead set on moving on then wish him luck as he gets paid but has issues staying on the field.

 

Guys who show they can rush the passer get paid. Being in the perfect position vs being offered a different role on a new team that pays more money are two different things. Lets be honest here, the system here under uses DE's regardless. While I am not saying huff is in the same class of player, TJ watt led the NFL in sacks where he averaged 1 sack for every 49 snaps he played. Hendrickson 1 per 42 snaps. Josh Allen 1 sack for every 50 snaps. K Mack 1 for every 54. D. Hunter 1 sack for every 61 snaps. Those were your top 5 players in sacks this year. Huff averaged 1 sack per 48 plays. He's right in that range. He only played 480 total snaps while all the other guys mentioned played 780-1000+ snaps. Give huff 750-800 snaps at his current rate and hes easily a 15-16+ sack guy. My point being, teams will project bigger sack numbers with the uptick in usage and roll the dice on him. Throw him on a team with a strong offense that can put him on the field more in ideal situations and you could easily project him to be even more productive. The 13-15 range probably isn't realistic. Hes going to get paid because at least one or two teams will fall in love with the upside. Because this team drafted two DE's in the first round in the last 2 drafts, this team really can't justify getting into the bidding war. If Huff gets to the open market, this team will not be able to afford him.

[peekskill68]

45 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Nope.  He was a UDFA find who was coached well.  Do it again.  Find some late-round talent/UDFA and coach them up.  Macdonald has to step up and fill Huff's roll.  Jermaine Johnson will be in year three and hopefully ready to fill that role as well.

We have to use an asset (Huff) to get either draft capital or a piece to the offense puzzle. It is time to invest in about 4-5 OL, another TE, and 2 more WR.  That is what this offense legitimately needs, or a 41-year-old version of Aaron Rodgers is going to look rather middle-of-the-pack-ish at best.  

I think we should resign Becton, move AVT to Left guard, fill the guard/Right Tackle positions in free agency, and then move down in the draft to fill as many of the above targets mentioned.  This team needs offense.  We have enough F/A's we already have to resign on defense.  Gotta use an asset to get something for the 'O.'

Good post.  It would not surprise me at all if there is some short term "prove it" deal done here.  Better for the team (we are so short of OL bodies) and better for the player (there is talent there which we saw flashes of as a rookie).  My own belief is he could be a decent RT (just too slow in pass sets to play LT at the pro level) and would look better with Rodgers (helping the OL with assignments and getting the ball out quicker)

[ZachStepdad]

I would trade him and figure out a way to trade back into the first round and draft Penix. With our pick grab WR or OL

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, extmenace said:

Guys who show they can rush the passer get paid. Being in the perfect position vs being offered a different role on a new team that pays more money are two different things. Lets be honest here, the system here under uses DE's regardless. While I am not saying huff is in the same class of player, TJ watt led the NFL in sacks where he averaged 1 sack for every 49 snaps he played. Hendrickson 1 per 42 snaps. Josh Allen 1 sack for every 50 snaps. K Mack 1 for every 54. D. Hunter 1 sack for every 61 snaps. Those were your top 5 players in sacks this year. Huff averaged 1 sack per 48 plays. He's right in that range. He only played 480 total snaps while all the other guys mentioned played 780-1000+ snaps. Give huff 750-800 snaps at his current rate and hes easily a 15-16+ sack guy. My point being, teams will project bigger sack numbers with the uptick in usage and roll the dice on him. Throw him on a team with a strong offense that can put him on the field more in ideal situations and you could easily project him to be even more productive. The 13-15 range probably isn't realistic. Hes going to get paid because at least one or two teams will fall in love with the upside. Because this team drafted two DE's in the first round in the last 2 drafts, this team really can't justify getting into the bidding war. If Huff gets to the open market, this team will not be able to afford him.

 Well yeah like I said earlier with Rodgers at QB alone it will get Huff way more chances because we will be playing with leads forcing teams to throw more. I also agree he can approach 15 sacks in this scenario 

[Untouchable]

Not much to discuss

He’ll go to another team and maybe we get a 3rd/4th round comp pick in 2025.

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I realize they were exaggerations, but the very point stands: the Jets would probably have to blow the 2nd-highest bid out of the water to keep Huff.

The theoretical team A team B scenario doesn't apply to Huff because he certainly will get at worst one team to make him a starter offer. Further, it's not like players don't turn down more money for what they perceive is a better situation elsewhere. If that wasn't the case then Orlando Brown would've been in a Jets uniform this season, going back to James Farrior never would've gone to Pittsburgh. 

With Huff, by taking a situational contract - which is higher than the starting contract he'd get elsewhere in your supposition, which is pretty unlikely on that front alone - he is capping his potential. Talented players bet on themselves all the time. Sometimes they bet and lose, but it happens. Not everyone wants to have "the best job in the NFL" as a backup QB: unless they're really old & feel it that their bodies won't take it anymore, they all want to start.  

I couldn't disagree more with your last statement (why stop disagreeing now?):

There are a bunch of tactics players use to get a team to "come running" - two months into extension negotiations, mind you - but they don't involve the strong insinuation that he wants to play in a different system than his current team plays. That's no tactic at all, because it announces in advance that if he's retained he only came back 100% because no one else offered nearly the same money, because outside of that he still really doesn't want to be here.

If that's his tactic it's the worst tactic ever. That's a tactic that gets his current team to pull away from all negotiations because no one wants to guarantee two seasons of starter money to a situation player who truly wishes he was on a different team in a different defense.

"why stop disagreeing now" 

Well Sperm I don't fully disagree with anything you are saying I'm well aware of all the things you bring up here I'm just putting out scenarios more than I'm putting out disagreements. We never know how a player truly feels until the deal is done. 

[Smashmouth]

9 minutes ago, ZachStepdad said:

I would trade him and figure out a way to trade back into the first round and draft Penix. With our pick grab WR or OL

he's a FA 

[bonkertons]

It is what it is, unfortunately.  JD and Co don't want to pay a pass-rushing specialist $20M, even if he is a great one.  I'm willing to trust them on this one, considering they found Huff in the first place and they seem to have hit pretty well with JJ.  They've proven to be pretty good at evaluating and developing talent on the defensive side of the ball.  Quincy, Adams, the corners, even Davis finally turning into a player.  If they believe McDonald is that guy, then yeah - put the money towards the offense. 

 

If McDonald busts though and Huff goes on to bigger and better things somewhere else, then yeah this will be a real bad look for JD.  Like....real bad.  I think as long as McDonald becomes a 10 sack guy you can feel like you made the right call, no matter what Huff does from here on out.  

[Beerfish]

Should have been extended last year but wasn't.  McDonald was the plan.  In the end if McDonald has 10 sacks next year then no one will care about Huff no matter where he goes.  If McDonald can;t produce then there will be a lot of angst over letting him walk.

In any case there should be no way they prioritize Huff coming back over oline or WR or backup QB or kickers.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, extmenace said:

Guys who show they can rush the passer get paid. Being in the perfect position vs being offered a different role on a new team that pays more money are two different things. Lets be honest here, the system here under uses DE's regardless. While I am not saying huff is in the same class of player, TJ watt led the NFL in sacks where he averaged 1 sack for every 49 snaps he played. Hendrickson 1 per 42 snaps. Josh Allen 1 sack for every 50 snaps. K Mack 1 for every 54. D. Hunter 1 sack for every 61 snaps. Those were your top 5 players in sacks this year. Huff averaged 1 sack per 48 plays. He's right in that range. He only played 480 total snaps while all the other guys mentioned played 780-1000+ snaps. Give huff 750-800 snaps at his current rate and hes easily a 15-16+ sack guy. My point being, teams will project bigger sack numbers with the uptick in usage and roll the dice on him. Throw him on a team with a strong offense that can put him on the field more in ideal situations and you could easily project him to be even more productive. The 13-15 range probably isn't realistic. Hes going to get paid because at least one or two teams will fall in love with the upside. Because this team drafted two DE's in the first round in the last 2 drafts, this team really can't justify getting into the bidding war. If Huff gets to the open market, this team will not be able to afford him.

This is the problem with rattling off statistics without context.

TJ Watt et al averaging 1 sack every 49 snaps carries a bit more weight to it when he's on the field for the 50% of snaps where it's a running play. So if about half Watt's snaps are on rushing/passing, then it's 1 sack every ~25 pass snaps.

Say only 10-20% of Huff's snaps are against runs. If he's getting 1 sack er 48 plays then that translates to what, 1 sack every ~40-42 pass snaps?

I don't know what their pass:run snap ratios are - tbh this is the kind of thing pff is good for but I don't have access to someone's account anymore - but it's probably not that far off. 

So yeah 1 per 40 pass snaps is still pretty good, and he's therefore a worthwhile player to have, but once you break it down by sacks per pass snap you see even in his disproportionate career year he's been nowhere near the edge rusher caliber of Watt, Allen, Mack, Hunter, etc. 

Therefore it's not as simple as "Oh, of course if you give him 50% more snaps and he'll get 50% more sacks. Nope. Give him 50% more snaps and maybe he'll get just 1 more sack, because 80% of those extra snaps will be running downs where there are no sack opportunities. That's aside from the reality that he won't have such fresh legs going against 2nd-half exhausted RTs playing every single snap, and so rarely has to worry about staying in his lane until he realizes it's not a handoff, so maybe he wouldn't have gotten all 10 that he did; ergo he may not have any more sacks at all with 300 more total snaps.

He is not in their league, even as a pass rusher -- at least not thus far in his career. Plus he's not been a particularly good run defender. I'd like him back, but he's not been a situational player because his career defensive coaches are too benighted to see he should be on the field all the time. Could very well be they were using him just right.

[Jet_Engine1]

Drafting McDonald was on the same scale of ridiculousness as doubling down on Safeties, drafting Calvin Pryor, or triple dipping on DTs in a 6 year span. Absolutely pathetic and moronic roster management and lack of awareness. Zero excuse for the pick last year. None.

 

Now you're HOPING the skinny kid you drafted at 15 is MAYBE as good as the guy you got for nothing who has developed into a higher-level situational pass rusher on an otherwise pretty stacked D, while the time and effort it took for Huff to develop into a guy that will probably get around $20M per goes into the sunk cost file.

 

Insanity.

 

 

[THE BARON]

3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Probably what they should have done. I hated the McDonald pick ... I dont hate the player just the pick because I agree a WR would have made 100% more sense OL as well. 

agree, but it will come down to how mac plays.  if he underperforms for a 1st rounder, we'd be right.  if he tears it up on the field, jd made a great pick that none of us would have seen coming.  

gotta wait and see...

one thing is for sure... if the jets are not playing meaningful football mid season, jd and rs need to be fired before the turkey goes into the oven

[Larz]

He’s going to the highest bidder and the jets drafted his replacement 

bye bye 

[Sperm Edwards]

28 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

"why stop disagreeing now" 

Well Sperm I don't fully disagree with anything you are saying I'm well aware of all the things you bring up here I'm just putting out scenarios more than I'm putting out disagreements. We never know how a player truly feels until the deal is done. 

He said he wants to go to a system where he can be a starter. It's quite obviously a sore point with him. Then in the next breath he went out of his way to say there'd be no hometown discount. Not "I let my agent handle that stuff," on either front. 

He doesn't want to be here. He doesn't want to play in this rotation. 

I don't know why you'd think he's lying about something that came across - and has every reason to be - so straightforward. 

[Jet_Engine1]

22 minutes ago, Larz said:

He’s going to the highest bidder and the jets drafted his replacement 

bye bye 

Yep. Remember when we drafted Vern Ghost to replace Abraham?

 

Good times...

[rangerous]

It would be great for the jets to keep huff but I don’t see his value change all that much if the jets do start playing from a lead.  It sounds logical that the defense would simply be able to rear back and pass rush more but teams are already over weighted in pass to run plays so just how many more passes would they actually face? 5? 10? Huff would make his case much better if was also reliable on the edge.  Apparently he’s not so he’s probably not getting the big money from the jets.

[Barton]

Cut or restructure enough guys on this team and get it done. An elite rusher is 1 of the most important pieces in football.