ESPN Redraft 2023

[jamesr]

ESPN did a redraft article for 2023. Found it interesting that WMD is selected at the top of round 2 (pick 33 to Houston as they don't get Anderson in the Round 1 redraft).

 

Jets end up with Broderick Jones. And Tippman in Round 2. Glorious head of hair and all.

 

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[The Crusher]

“Whew! Dodge one there! “
   
     -B Jones 

[varjet]

Much better. 

[Saul Goodman]

Douglas significantly delayed improving the offensive line by caving to Green Bay and agreeing to swap picks and missing out on Jones.

He then compounded the problem by selecting a situational pass rusher. One who may never be as good as Huff, who will now be allowed to walk, for nothing in return.

His incompetence is astounding. 

[chirorob]

22 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Douglas significantly delayed improving the offensive line by caving to Green Bay and agreeing to swap picks and missing out on Jones.

He then compounded the problem by selecting a situational pass rusher. One who may never be as good as Huff, who will now be allowed to walk, for nothing in return.

His incompetence is astounding. 

Draft a WR, pay Huff.

Now, you lose Huff, and have to spend more on a WR

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Draft a WR, pay Huff.

Now, you lose Huff, and have to spend more on a WR

You really think that we would not have to sign a WR if we had drafted Smith-Njigba?  I mean a rookie year comparable to Elijah Moore's surely means that it would be a waste for the team to look to add Mike Evans, Tee Higgins or Davante Adams. 

[jamesr]

You really think that we would not have to sign a WR if we had drafted Smith-Njigba?  I mean a rookie year comparable to Elijah Moore's surely means that it would be a waste for the team to look to add Mike Evans, Tee Higgins or Davante Adams. 

We'd still be looking to sign / draft a #2 WR, and we'd then be paying our #4 WR 10m a year, rather than our #3.

Thank you Joe Douglas (and Alan Lazard), thank you!

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[bonkertons]

48 minutes ago, jamesr said:

We'd still be looking to sign / draft a #2 WR, and we'd then be paying our #4 WR 10m a year, rather than our #3.

Thank you Joe Douglas (and Alan Lazard), thank you!

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So essentially we're in the same boat...except in this scenario there is no McDonald so we have no choice but to re-sign Huff for $20M+.  How exactly are you signing a WR and OT?  Unless of course you let Huff walk and go draft Dallas Turner or Jared Verse.  Something tells me that wouldn't go over too well though.

 

[jamesr]

So essentially we're in the same boat...except in this scenario there is no McDonald so we have no choice but to re-sign Huff for $20M+.  How exactly are you signing a WR and OT?  Unless of course you let Huff walk and go draft Dallas Turner or Jared Verse.  Something tells me that wouldn't go over too well though.
 

I want advocating drafting JSN last year, quite the opposite. The reason for my original post was to show that although a lot of posters hated the pick then (and now), he still goes in the top 40 in a redraft. So not as dreadful as many here like to make out.

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[bonkertons]

7 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I want advocating drafting JSN last year, quite the opposite. The reason for my original post was to show that although a lot of posters hated the pick then (and now), he still goes in the top 40 in a redraft. So not as dreadful as many here like to make out.

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I think we'll have a better idea of where he'd truly rank in a redraft after next year.  Dude only played like 20% of the snaps this year, and wasn't even dressed for one game.  I think he has potential to be a special pass rusher.  It's just unfortunate he'll always be linked to Huff and guys who filled positions of need that went after him.  On his own, he's a pretty exciting prospect and I'm looking forward to seeing what he does next year.

[Larz]

It wasn’t the slot receiver? Weird 

[NYJCAP2]

I didn’t think B. Jones had a good season.

Only started 11 games and 72% of offensive snaps.

[Warfish]

16 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

You really think that we would not have to sign a WR if we had drafted Smith-Njigba?

Serious answer?

We'd need one LESS WR had we drafted JSN.  Wilson+JSN+Someone.

Today, IMO, we very much need a minimum of 2 starting-quality WR's in FA or the Draft.   Neither the GB JAG nor the UDFA Fan Favs are acceptable options IMO.

But in truth, JD's mismanagement of the WR position is why we're here today.  Drafted Mims the bust.  Couldn't manage Moore because he prioritized Zach Wilson.  Drafted a rotational edge who needs years before he might be productive over a top slot prospect, etc.

Rodgers can cover for alot, I get that that is the theory everyone here seems to be resting their short-term hopes on.  That, or the "we'll just sign or trade for the top WR's int he league like Evans" as if it were that easy, lol.

But in truth, we really shouldn't be in this spot right now, if JD had half a clue how to do his job.

IN before yet another JD Special 1-year deal for an old "Name" player at WR.......

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Serious answer?

We'd need one LESS WR had we drafted JSN.  Wilson+JSN+Someone.

Today, IMO, we very much need a minimum of 2 starting-quality WR's in FA or the Draft.   Neither the GB JAG nor the UDFA Fan Favs are acceptable options IMO.

But in truth, JD's mismanagement of the WR position is why we're here today.  Drafted Mims the bust.  Couldn't manage Moore because he prioritized Zach Wilson.  Drafted a rotational edge who needs years before he might be productive over a top slot prospect, etc.

Rodgers can cover for alot, I get that that is the theory everyone here seems to be resting their short-term hopes on.  That, or the "we'll just sign or trade for the top WR's int he league like Evans" as if it were that easy, lol.

But in truth, we really shouldn't be in this spot right now, if JD had half a clue how to do his job.

IN before yet another JD Special 1-year deal for an old "Name" player at WR.......

Bah.  JSN is going to give you a slight improvement on Berrios level production IMO.  Big ******* deal.  Yes, Lazard, Cobb and Hardman flamed out hard.  I think much of that came from being unable to deal with the drop from Rodgers.  You have three guys that went from Rodgers and Mahomes to Wilson, Boyle and Siemian.  That has to be difficult, and maybe they just weren't cut out for it.   People are mocking Roman Wilson to us in the 3rd.  I think I'd just as soon have him as JSN.  I tend to think after the combine Wilson will go earlier, but the point stands.  

I firmly disagree on Moore being dumped because they prioritized Wilson.  Moore was dumped because he flapped his gums and was a me-first guy.  Remember, he first started complaining during the winning streak.  They should have known his attitude before the draft, but you can't keep a guy around who bad mouths coaches and yaps to the press and twitter.  Especially during a winning streak.  **** him. 

They have Wilson.  Lazard is here and I expect an uptick, but I get you not wanting to rely on that.  Sign one mid to high level WR and a mid round pick and you are more than set.  Alternatively, draft a top tier weapon.  Bowers, Nabors or Odunze if they fall and there is no place for JSN.  JSN played zero snaps on specials while McDonald probably won the Giants game on specials.  <That bastard cost us Alt!>

[chirorob]

17 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

You really think that we would not have to sign a WR if we had drafted Smith-Njigba?  I mean a rookie year comparable to Elijah Moore's surely means that it would be a waste for the team to look to add Mike Evans, Tee Higgins or Davante Adams. 

If you had Zay Flowers, or Jordan Addison, or even Smith-Njigba, no, I don't think you'd need a huge, 20 million WR to add.

Wilson, + one of those guys + Breece out of the backfield + Conklin + a competent QB should be enough.

To be clear, I don't even hate taking a true pass rusher (although last year, the pick was WR, or Tackle, or even trade back).   I did hate taking a a 24 year old 240 pound defensive end.   240 is simply to small, I don't care how "bendy" he is.  24 is relevant because if he was 21, he can add 10 more pounds pretty easily, that's harder to do at 24. 

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, chirorob said:

If you had Zay Flowers, or Jordan Addison, or even Smith-Njigba, no, I don't think you'd need a huge, 20 million WR to add.

Wilson, + one of those guys + Breece out of the backfield + Conklin + a competent QB should be enough.

To be clear, I don't even hate taking a true pass rusher (although last year, the pick was WR, or Tackle, or even trade back).   I did hate taking a a 24 year old 240 pound defensive end.   240 is simply to small, I don't care how "bendy" he is.  24 is relevant because if he was 21, he can add 10 more pounds pretty easily, that's harder to do at 24. 

I ALREADY SAID THAT THE PICK WAS CB!  Bonus points that we could have frustrated that scumbag the way that people think he did letting Broderick Jones go before us.

[Warfish]

42 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Bah.  JSN is going to give you a slight improvement on Berrios level production IMO.

He out produced every WR on our roster not named Wilson in 2023.  In a backup/#3 role behind two studs.  And he was vastly more productive than McDonald was so far in their respective careers to-date.

If you preferred someone else at WR rather than JSN, fine, the issue itself still stands.  JD failed to fix the WR position yet again, after several years and several drafts and FA periods attempting to do so.  

Failed to fix QB.  Failed to fix WR.  Failed to fix the Oline.  But hey, we got a rotational backup Edge who might really contribute in 2024 if he works really, really hard this offseason, so we got that.  But bye Huff, was fun while it lasted, lol.

42 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I firmly disagree on Moore being dumped because they prioritized Wilson.  Moore was dumped because he flapped his gums and was a me-first guy.

He flapped his gums why again?  Oh, right, because the team kept starting a dogpoop QB over superior backup QB's. 

Again, he's a solid WR, a potential long-term piece and we dumped him because of Zach Wilson's effect on this team, which is JD's fault.

42 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

  Remember, he first started complaining during the winning streak.

The false hope winning steak, where it was obvious to an objective onlooker than Zach was still trash and the streak (mostly due to the D not Wilson or the ineffective pass game) wasn't going to last?  

I mean lets be real, no one is thinking back going "man, that winning streak was so amazing, one for the Jets history books", lol.  

Should he have yapped?  Nope, said it then, I'll say it again now.  But neither should the Jets have played Zach Wilson, so /shrug.

42 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

They have Wilson.  Lazard is here and I expect an uptick, but I get you not wanting to rely on that.

We'd be insane to rely on Lazard being our #2 WR in 2024.

But yes, we'd hope to see an uptick from "produced nothing and got benched half the year" to "something" if Rodgers plays in 2024, lol.

42 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Sign one mid to high level WR and a mid round pick and you are more than set.

Lol, it's so easy a caveman could do it, eh?  Just sign a great FA WR, easy peasy, lol.  Maybe we'll get both Adams and Evans, right?  So easy, problem solved!

42 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

  Alternatively, draft a top tier weapon.  Bowers, Nabors or Odunze if they fall and there is no place for JSN. 

I know after all the moves we've seen, I trust JD to draft that top tier WR weapon.  

42 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

JSN played zero snaps on specials while McDonald probably won the Giants game on specials. 

Another moment we'll remember, always!  Remember the Giants in 2023, I know I do!

42 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

<That bastard cost us Alt!>

LOL, nice one.  

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He out produced every WR on our roster not named Wilson in 2023.  In a backup/#3 role behind two studs.  And he was vastly more productive than McDonald was so far in their respective careers to-date.

If you preferred someone else at WR rather than JSN, fine, the issue itself still stands.  JD failed to fix the WR position yet again, after several years and several drafts and FA periods attempting to do so.  

Failed to fix QB.  Failed to fix WR.  Failed to fix the Oline.  But hey, we got a rotational backup Edge who might really contribute in 2024 if he works really, really hard this offseason, so we got that.  But bye Huff, was fun while it lasted, lol.

He flapped his gums why again?  Oh, right, because the team kept starting a dogpoop QB over superior backup QB's. 

Again, he's a solid WR, a potential long-term piece and we dumped him because of Zach Wilson's effect on this team, which is JD's fault.

The false hope winning steak, where it was obvious to an objective onlooker than Zach was still trash and the streak (mostly due to the D not Wilson or the ineffective pass game) wasn't going to last?  

I mean lets be real, no one is thinking back going "man, that winning streak was so amazing, one for the Jets history books", lol.  

Should he have yapped?  Nope, said it then, I'll say it again now.  But neither should the Jets have played Zach Wilson, so /shrug.

We'd be insane to rely on Lazard being our #2 WR in 2024.

But yes, we'd hope to see an uptick from "produced nothing and got benched half the year" to "something" if Rodgers plays in 2024, lol.

Lol, it's so easy a caveman could do it, eh?  Just sign a great FA WR, easy peasy, lol.  Maybe we'll get both Adams and Evans, right?  So easy, problem solved!

I know after all the moves we've seen, I trust JD to draft that top tier WR weapon.  

Another moment we'll remember, always!  Remember the Giants in 2023, I know I do!

LOL, nice one.  

I'm not going to sit here and dissect every item.  Basically, everybody agrees things went to sh*t.  How much of that was them getting every personnel decision wrong and how much was it Rodgers being out?  If it is Rodgers and he solves things they will stay.  If not they are all gone.  They banked everything on Rodgers.  I agree that was not a great move.  Still, the idea that Lazard could be solid as a #2/3 was not farfetched.  Hardman was the one that confused me.  I never could understand what their plan was with him.  Did they have an idea for him with Rodgers?  Was he just a huge mistake?  Both?  

I disagree on Moore for the simple reason that nobody should be allowed to do what he did.  Garrett Wilson earned way more rope than Moore ever did and he complained, but he did not do it in a **** the team fashion, like Moore.  You can't have guys like that.  Wilson sucking wasn't even the point.  If you listen to Moore he wasn't even complaining about Zach.  Mid 2022, Moore pipes up, what is your solution?  Put the C on his jersey like Santonio Holmes?  I will agree that the time to weed those guys out is pre-draft, but that ship had sailed.  

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Basically, everybody agrees things went to sh*t.

The key point:  Everything indeed went to sh*t.

Happy to agree to disagree on the other items.  

 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The key point:  Everything indeed went to sh*t.

Happy to agree to disagree on the other items.  

 

Some.  Not all.

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Some.  Not all.

🤜🤛

[jetspenguin]

20 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Douglas significantly delayed improving the offensive line by caving to Green Bay and agreeing to swap picks and missing out on Jones.

He then compounded the problem by selecting a situational pass rusher. One who may never be as good as Huff, who will now be allowed to walk, for nothing in return.

His incompetence is astounding. 

wrong thread post

[Jet Nut]

20 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Douglas significantly delayed improving the offensive line by caving to Green Bay and agreeing to swap picks and missing out on Jones.

He then compounded the problem by selecting a situational pass rusher. One who may never be as good as Huff, who will now be allowed to walk, for nothing in return.

His incompetence is astounding. 

Because if he even wanted him he should have known that the Jones pick would be traded just before the Jets pick came up. 
Never mind didn’t they redraft JJ to a lower spot a year before?

Judging draft a year after that draft is the kind of idiotic things that ESPN does for no real reason

[JohnnyLV]

21 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Douglas significantly delayed improving the offensive line by caving to Green Bay and agreeing to swap picks and missing out on Jones.

He then compounded the problem by selecting a situational pass rusher. One who may never be as good as Huff, who will now be allowed to walk, for nothing in return.

His incompetence is astounding. 

People need to stop saying this. Douglas clearly never wanted Jones as the trade showed. But you are correct that IMO he is completely incompetent as a drafter and again my opinion but I believe the Rodgers trade is one of the 10 worst organizational moves in NFL history and said so at the time.

And I am SOOOO tired of hearing the conjecture that "we would have won 10 games with Rodgers" We may have even won LESS with him 

Saleh and JD I think are utterly incompetent. Truth be told once he started going off on "all gas no brake. You will be hearing that a lot"  in his interview they showed on 1JD I would have eliminated him from the search 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Because if he even wanted him he should have known that the Jones pick would be traded just before the Jets pick came up. 
Never mind didn’t they redraft JJ to a lower spot a year before?

Judging draft a year after that draft is the kind of idiotic things that ESPN does for no real reason

Total off-topic aside: 

Haven't seen much of you on the forum lately Nut.  I hope you're doing well and all is good in life for you.

On-topic:  Judging drafts (and FA's) is not a one-and-done-at-some-fixed-time thing.  Proper evaluation is a constant and ongoing process, from the second a player is drafted/signed, throughout their time with the club that drafted/signed them.  Be assured, every GM is "judging" his draft picks at the end of their first seasons and evaluating their expectations of them, and their projections going forward for them, based on a year's experience.  

There is a similar reason why most workplaces (or at least many) have a 1-year probationary period for new employees.  

[UntouchableCrew]

So basically in the redraft we take the guy we wanted to take and got jumped for? Good to know.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, JohnnyLV said:

People need to stop saying this. Douglas clearly never wanted Jones as the trade showed.

This. I heard a bunch of fans wanted to take him in the middle of the round, but the only indirect evidence pointing one way or the other suggests Douglas was not going to draft Jones even if he was there (for better or worse on that judgment). All that may have happened - if Jones was still on the board - is they'd have gotten a better offer to trade down, and then still would've taken McDonald anyway.

It looks like they were ok taking someone raw, but not someone whose position deems he needs to be 100% on the field or 100% off the field. An edge rusher can work his way up to more playing time, starting with situational use. Ultimately McDonald played a lot less than I thought he would - particularly in light of Lawson missing the season - but outside of top 10 picks they like slow-dealing in their rookies (again, for better or worse). Jones was a mid-1st rounder in a weak 1st round.

I wouldn't say I'm optimistic how this will end up, given y1/early returns with Douglas's draft history in all but one season, but there's also the possibility they get a much better tackle this year than Jones ends up being, plus McDonald has a huge y1 to y2 leap like JJII. So the possibility exists that they're better off this way than taking Jones last season (had he fallen to us at 16, or had we not moved down from 14 as part of the Rodgers trade).

Truth is this year I still see him trying to trade down, with the idea that recouping a 2nd rounder is worth more than the disparity between the 3rd-best tackle off the board and a tackle they can still get in round 2. Depends what the roster looks like heading into the draft, though. 

[Paradis]

On 2/6/2024 at 12:58 PM, Saul Goodman said:

Douglas significantly delayed improving the offensive line by caving to Green Bay and agreeing to swap picks and missing out on Jones.

1 billion percent... how we got bent over, in a competition vs thin air, is still being investigated by Mulder and Scully

[jamesr]

I didn’t think B. Jones had a good season.
Only started 11 games and 72% of offensive snaps.

He started off shaky but finished better. Work in progress rather than a finished product.

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[Sammybighead]

They're rookies. Gotta give them more than 1 year. We have no clue what they're gonna be yet. 2 examples, after their rookies years, Mac jones was gonna be the next tom Brady and Andrew thomas was a bust. That's 2 of many recent examples. 

[Jet Nut]

On 2/7/2024 at 1:46 PM, Warfish said:

Total off-topic aside: 

Haven't seen much of you on the forum lately Nut.  I hope you're doing well and all is good in life for you.

On-topic:  Judging drafts (and FA's) is not a one-and-done-at-some-fixed-time thing.  Proper evaluation is a constant and ongoing process, from the second a player is drafted/signed, throughout their time with the club that drafted/signed them.  Be assured, every GM is "judging" his draft picks at the end of their first seasons and evaluating their expectations of them, and their projections going forward for them, based on a year's experience.  

There is a similar reason why most workplaces (or at least many) have a 1-year probationary period for new employees.  

Thanks fish, I’m kind of recovering from another surgery which has been a slow road.  But all good, everything working.   But thanks so much for asking, it’s appreciated greatly. 

I agree with you. The evaluation process is an ongoing thing which is why I was kind of chuckling at ESPNs redraft.  Player A playing better than player B as rookies should be taken for what it is IMO.  One year shouldn’t cause a redraft.  If player B becomes a perennial pro bowl player and goes on to having a HOF career who will care that ESPN jumped the gun and claiming in a redraft they should change positions in their draft class.  

But it is off season and it’s time for silly talk 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Thanks fish, I’m kind of recovering from another surgery which has been a slow road.  But all good, everything working.   But thanks so much for asking, it’s appreciated greatly. 

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, my friend.  Glad to hear things are on the upwards trajectory.  Looking forward to PLENTY more trademarked Fish v. Nut debates this offseason    

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Warfish said:

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, my friend.  Glad to hear things are on the upwards trajectory.  Looking forward to PLENTY more trademarked Fish v. Nut debates this offseason    

Best debates on the board my friend!

Thank you.