Vikings make offers to Pats and Commanders?

[bonkertons]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Which building? My building guy says they're offering the '24 1sts but it's a 2nd to the Commanders in '25. 😛 

My brain immediately went to Dominican Lou

 

 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The Pats are a regular team now.  No more TB12 or BB.  They have a rookie HC and will be working in a rookie QB behind Brissett.

It's still taking time to sink in. But yes. Many, many, too many years of NE abuse 

it's another form of PTSD. 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Hear the game live on WKRP.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

^Woody.

[PFSIKH]

13 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

So, my guys in a building have heard a rumor that the Vikings have offered their two 2024 1st round picks and their 2025 1st to the Patriots to move up to #3 and offered the same deal with a 2025 3rd to the Commanders.

They want Drake Maye. Josh McCown coached him in high school.

This is so nonsensical for the Patriots or Commanders.

Both teams need a QB.  Badly.  Why trade back when you are in a prime position to draft one?  Plus, the 2025 draft class is not looking as deep.  

While having four first round picks over the next two drafts would be nice, if they do not get the QB position right, they are still looking at 4 or 5 wins.

[Green Ghost]

13 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

This is so nonsensical for the Patriots or Commanders.

Both teams need a QB.  Badly.  Why trade back when you are in a prime position to draft one?  Plus, the 2025 draft class is not looking as deep.  

While having four first round picks over the next two drafts would be nice, if they do not get the QB position right, they are still looking at 4 or 5 wins.

How many QBs succeed going to a 4 win team? I get why you’d want to draft one in the top 5, but I don’t think the thought of first building an offense to support that young QB is as nonsensical as you do. 
They’re just two different approaches to what is an un exact science., that’s all. Who’s to say which is right and which is wrong?

[PFSIKH]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

How many QBs succeed going to a 4 win team? I get why you’d want to draft one in the top 5, but I don’t think the thought of first building an offense to support that young QB is as nonsensical as you do. 
They’re just two different approaches to what is an un exact science., that’s all. Who’s to say which is right and which is wrong?

Me.  😜

I understand the course of action you outlined.  On some levels, I agree with it.

The Patriots have needs at three positions this draft has some depth at.  QB, WR and T.

My argument for is the best argument against.  You can look at the most recent QB drafts and the hit/miss rate is stunningly bad.  

Drafting Alt or MHJ would be the safer picks.  Trading back and accumulating more picks would probably make the Patriots better in the long run.  It does not answer their need at the most important position.   I would rather take a stab with a high pick than drafting a less talented QB.

Drafting a QB in the first is not a guarantee.  Drafting a QB later is even less of a guarantee.  

[NYJCAP2]

4 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

This is so nonsensical for the Patriots or Commanders.

Both teams need a QB.  Badly.  Why trade back when you are in a prime position to draft one?  Plus, the 2025 draft class is not looking as deep.  

While having four first round picks over the next two drafts would be nice, if they do not get the QB position right, they are still looking at 4 or 5 wins.

I don’t think the Patriots play their rookie QB. They signed Brisset for a reason, and they have zero playmakers.

They’ve seen the Jets trot out rookie after rookie and simply laugh.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

It does not answer their need at the most important position.   I would rather take a stab with a high pick than drafting a less talented QB.

So you want the Patriots to be the Jets.

I'm with you, brother.

[section314]

5 hours ago, Green Ghost said:

How many QBs succeed going to a 4 win team? I get why you’d want to draft one in the top 5, but I don’t think the thought of first building an offense to support that young QB is as nonsensical as you do. 
They’re just two different approaches to what is an un exact science., that’s all. Who’s to say which is right and which is wrong?

Pat Kirwin on Movin the chains on Monday likened this year to the 2021 draft. 4 of the 5 QB’s taken in the top 15 will all be somewhere different from the team that drafted them that year. Mentioned all the good players teams passed up to get those guys… Chase, Sewell, Parsons. Said it feels like the same thing is going to happen this year with teams passing Harrison, Bowers, Alt etc. 

[derp]

17 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Becton is more like a submarine…..

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

Me.  😜

I understand the course of action you outlined.  On some levels, I agree with it.

The Patriots have needs at three positions this draft has some depth at.  QB, WR and T.

My argument for is the best argument against.  You can look at the most recent QB drafts and the hit/miss rate is stunningly bad.  

Drafting Alt or MHJ would be the safer picks.  Trading back and accumulating more picks would probably make the Patriots better in the long run.  It does not answer their need at the most important position.   I would rather take a stab with a high pick than drafting a less talented QB.

Drafting a QB in the first is not a guarantee.  Drafting a QB later is even less of a guarantee.  

A theoretical trade down for the Pats could net them picks that could be turned into (as just one theoretical example) Odunze (WR), JC Latham (OT) and Penix (QB).  Or three generally equivalent players, and still retaining their own 2nd as well.

If they're really not sold on the 1 (of 3 top pick) QB's who drops to them, and they love Penix or Bo Nix or the like, it may not be the worst idea.

Trade like this are how thin, low-talent teams can restock quickly back to at least being average.  Upper-tier quantity over perceived tip-top-end quality (again, presumed they're not sold on say, Maye or Daniels).

[PFSIKH]

18 hours ago, Warfish said:

A theoretical trade down for the Pats could net them picks that could be turned into (as just one theoretical example) Odunze (WR), JC Latham (OT) and Penix (QB).  Or three generally equivalent players, and still retaining their own 2nd as well.

If they're really not sold on the 1 (of 3 top pick) QB's who drops to them, and they love Penix or Bo Nix or the like, it may not be the worst idea.

Trade like this are how thin, low-talent teams can restock quickly back to at least being average.  Upper-tier quantity over perceived tip-top-end quality (again, presumed they're not sold on say, Maye or Daniels).

Like with Green, I do not disagree with your plan.

As our respective teams learned in 2021 draft, there are no guarantees.  With that being said, I would rather the Patriots take a chance with one of the top 3 QBs.  With Maye or Daniels, you can project they might be a Top 5-10 QB. Will they?  TBD.

  In 2-3 years, will the top 3 be looking like the 2021 or 2022 QB classes were most are traded from their original team? Maybe.  I believe the Patriots hope it is more like the 2020 draft and you have two Top 5/6 guys and maybe two more top 10 guys.

 

19 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So you want the Patriots to be the Jets.

I'm with you, brother.

Dude, I am old enough to remember the Patriots were the Jets without one shining moment.  

[Dunnie]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:28 AM, PFSIKH said:

This is so nonsensical for the Patriots or Commanders.

Both teams need a QB.  Badly.  Why trade back when you are in a prime position to draft one?  Plus, the 2025 draft class is not looking as deep.  

While having four first round picks over the next two drafts would be nice, if they do not get the QB position right, they are still looking at 4 or 5 wins.

Completely and utterly disagree .. this is JETS thinking right here. 

You cant bring in a rookie QB without having an stout OL, RB and WR corps in place.  Why do you think the JETS have NEVER developed a QB ? TBH the best path forward is trade for the ransom, stack the OL and get a stud WR.  Then take a QB in one of the following two drafts depending on when the better guy is coming out - basically tanking the season respectfully. Might suck for the vets on the team, but it is the best path forward. Play hard develop guys, but because of the missing QB ensure a high pick to get the guy you want. 

The Pats are a dumpster fire roster wise ..they need a lot of guys.

Losing teams never learn.

 

Edited March 21 by Dunnie

[bonkertons]

21 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Completely and utterly disagree .. this is JETS thinking right here. 

You cant bring in a rookie QB without having an stout OL, RB and WR corps in place.  Why do you think the JETS have NEVER developed a QB ? TBH the best path forward is trade for the ransom, stack the OL and get a stud WR.  Then take a QB in one of the following two drafts depending on when the better guy is coming out - basically tanking the season respectfully. Might suck for the vets on the team, but it is the best path forward. Play hard develop guys, but because of the missing QB ensure a high pick to get the guy you want. 

The Pats are a dumpster fire roster wise ..they need a lot of guys.

Losing teams never learn.

 

Honestly it really comes down to who is on the board.  If you had a chance to draft CJ Stroud last year but your OL was sh*t, would you have traded down instead for Paris Johnson?  

 

If you feel like the kid on the board is going to be elite, take him and fill the other spots later.  You don't HAVE to play him out of the gate.  You can sit him for a year, even as a 3rd overall pick, and only put him in once the OL is addressed...at least to a league-average level.

[Warfish]

32 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

.....I would rather the Patriots take a chance with one of the top 3 QBs.  With Maye or Daniels, you can project they might be a Top 5-10 QB.

I think this is one of the fallacies of the NFL Draft.  Teams, and people (including some very well informed, very smart people) and of course Fans convince themselves that the "top guys" will project to being "top 5" QB's, that they have that kind of potential.  Not just potential, but likelyhood.

Honestly, I think that's often false.  The Zach Wilson draft is a perfect example, it was obvious (IMO) that Lawrence was a good prospect, not a "generational" prospect.  He was never going to some world-ender who steamrolled the league, and that's played out.  He's in the upper part of the middle-of-the-road and likely to stay there.  Wilson, Fields, Lance were all clearly mediocre prospects with serious and obvious drawbacks, but the league for the most part ignored that, bought into the hype, and convinced themselves they were all "likely top 5" QB's, lol.  

This isn't to say Williams, Maye and Daniels aren't necessarily good prospects.  Or that the various McCarthy's, Penix's and Nix's are somehow superior.  All I'm saying is to be always watching for the NFL's self-induced "hype machine", because the league loves building guys up so folks will want to watch the draft/obsess over the draft, and nothing does that better than QB's.  I might argue the best QB's in this year's cycle might not be those top 3 guys when all is said and done. 

But as you say, TBD indeed my friend.  Still, I'd rather have the picks you do than what we do, so many interesting options for you this year. 

[The Crusher]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I think this is one of the fallacies of the NFL Draft.  Teams, and people (including some very well informed, very smart people) and of course Fans convince themselves that the "top guys" will project to being "top 5" QB's, that they have that kind of potential.  Not just potential, but likelyhood.

Honestly, I think that's often false.  The Zach Wilson draft is a perfect example, it was obvious (IMO) that Lawrence was a good prospect, not a "generational" prospect.  He was never going to some world-ender who steamrolled the league, and that's played out.  He's in the upper part of the middle-of-the-road and likely to stay there.  Wilson, Fields, Lance were all clearly mediocre prospects with serious and obvious drawbacks, but the league for the most part ignored that, bought into the hype, and convinced themselves they were all "likely top 5" QB's, lol.  

This isn't to say Williams, Maye and Daniels aren't necessarily good prospects.  Or that the various McCarthy's, Penix's and Nix's are somehow superior.  All I'm saying is to be always watching for the NFL's self-induced "hype machine", because the league loves building guys up so folks will want to watch the draft/obsess over the draft, and nothing does that better than QB's.  I might argue the best QB's in this year's cycle might not be those top 3 guys when all is said and done. 

But as you say, TBD indeed my friend.  Still, I'd rather have the picks you do than what we do, so many interesting options for you this year. 

Zach Wilson, 28 year old O lineman back  from a Mormon mission and the pandemic broke the system. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:48 AM, Green Ghost said:

How many QBs succeed going to a 4 win team? I get why you’d want to draft one in the top 5, but I don’t think the thought of first building an offense to support that young QB is as nonsensical as you do. 
They’re just two different approaches to what is an un exact science., that’s all. Who’s to say which is right and which is wrong?

It's not exactly unheard of.

Burrow. Herbert. Stroud. Off the top of my head.

Just gotta make sure you're picking the right one!

 

[PFSIKH]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I think this is one of the fallacies of the NFL Draft.  Teams, and people (including some very well informed, very smart people) and of course Fans convince themselves that the "top guys" will project to being "top 5" QB's, that they have that kind of potential.  Not just potential, but likelyhood.

Honestly, I think that's often false.  The Zach Wilson draft is a perfect example, it was obvious (IMO) that Lawrence was a good prospect, not a "generational" prospect.  He was never going to some world-ender who steamrolled the league, and that's played out.  He's in the upper part of the middle-of-the-road and likely to stay there.  Wilson, Fields, Lance were all clearly mediocre prospects with serious and obvious drawbacks, but the league for the most part ignored that, bought into the hype, and convinced themselves they were all "likely top 5" QB's, lol.  

This isn't to say Williams, Maye and Daniels aren't necessarily good prospects.  Or that the various McCarthy's, Penix's and Nix's are somehow superior.  All I'm saying is to be always watching for the NFL's self-induced "hype machine", because the league loves building guys up so folks will want to watch the draft/obsess over the draft, and nothing does that better than QB's.  I might argue the best QB's in this year's cycle might not be those top 3 guys when all is said and done. 

But as you say, TBD indeed my friend.  Still, I'd rather have the picks you do than what we do, so many interesting options for you this year. 

I would rather go with a guy with a higher ceiling than a guy already at his ceiling.  As much as I liked Mac, he was never going to be a Top 5 guy.  

I think the Patriots are better served by taking that calculated risk at QB this year than next year or later in this draft.

To channel my inner Herm, "you play to win the game".  The Patriots have a chance at one of the top QBs.  It is not a guarantee.  The Patriots have to bring that potential out. 

Drafting a QB later or next year is a crap shoot.

 

3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Completely and utterly disagree .. this is JETS thinking right here. 

You cant bring in a rookie QB without having an stout OL, RB and WR corps in place.  Why do you think the JETS have NEVER developed a QB ? TBH the best path forward is trade for the ransom, stack the OL and get a stud WR.  Then take a QB in one of the following two drafts depending on when the better guy is coming out - basically tanking the season respectfully. Might suck for the vets on the team, but it is the best path forward. Play hard develop guys, but because of the missing QB ensure a high pick to get the guy you want. 

The Pats are a dumpster fire roster wise ..they need a lot of guys.

Losing teams never learn.

 

 

I do not disagree with your rant.

You can bring in a rookie QB.  Especially, when you have a fall guy.  Jacoby Brisset's job is to deal with the rebuild.

The Patriots can select a QB, WR and T with their first three picks.  The 2024 Patriots might win 7 or 8 if they go Alt/MHJ at 3, then QB/WR or LT later.  Again, I would rather have the QB with a potential higher ceiling in Daniels/Maye than a better team with Rattler.

 

 

[slats]

I’m hoping the top three stay put and select QBs, and then the Vikings trade with the Chargers at #5 (who would almost certainly go WR there) to take the fourth one. 

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, PFSIKH said:

I would rather go with a guy with a higher ceiling than a guy already at his ceiling.  As much as I liked Mac, he was never going to be a Top 5 guy.  

I think the Patriots are better served by taking that calculated risk at QB this year than next year or later in this draft.

To channel my inner Herm, "you play to win the game".  The Patriots have a chance at one of the top QBs.  It is not a guarantee.  The Patriots have to bring that potential out. 

Drafting a QB later or next year is a crap shoot.

 

 

I do not disagree with your rant.

You can bring in a rookie QB.  Especially, when you have a fall guy.  Jacoby Brisset's job is to deal with the rebuild.

The Patriots can select a QB, WR and T with their first three picks.  The 2024 Patriots might win 7 or 8 if they go Alt/MHJ at 3, then QB/WR or LT later.  Again, I would rather have the QB with a potential higher ceiling in Daniels/Maye than a better team with Rattler.

 

 

I guess its how you rank those three against the league and whats coming out next year or the year after 

[Beerfish]

17 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I guess its how you rank those three against the league and whats coming out next year or the year after 

The issue with this is every single year out of the QBs who are draft eligible there are always two or three that vault up the rankings who no one ever  thought would be a top level pick and often some fall off.

No  one thought jayden daniles was a top 3 pick before this year.

No one thought anthony richardson was a top level pick last year.

No one thought zach wilson was a top level pick the year before.

Also teams every single year push so so prospects up higher due to need,  (This year the poster boy is jj McCarthy)

[PFSIKH]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

I guess its how you rank those three against the league and whats coming out next year or the year after 

I assume that is what the Patriots are doing. 

If the Patriots go into 2024 with the plan that Brisset plays this year and they build a 'foundation'.  Then next year the Patriots draft a QB.  The Patriots will be prohibitive underdogs in the QB department in all but 2 or 3 of their games.  They will have a shot at Shadeur Sanders.  Of course, his dad said he should not play in cold, but I digress.  

 

Will he be as good as Maye/Daniels?  🤔

 

Patriot Nation will find out in a little over a month.  

 

 

[FootballLove]

Vikings were all in on grabbing Zack Wilson from the NY Jets, but they didn't want to part with their 2028 7th round draft pick.

[slats]

42 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

I assume that is what the Patriots are doing. 

If the Patriots go into 2024 with the plan that Brisset plays this year and they build a 'foundation'.  Then next year the Patriots draft a QB.  The Patriots will be prohibitive underdogs in the QB department in all but 2 or 3 of their games.  They will have a shot at Shadeur Sanders.  Of course, his dad said he should not play in cold, but I digress.  

 

Will he be as good as Maye/Daniels?  🤔

 

Patriot Nation will find out in a little over a month.  

 

 

I don’t think I’d want Deion Sanders as a father-in-law.