Bowers downfield highlights plus a couple handoffs

[DoubleDown]

It's pretty simple.

Bowers is worthy of a first round pick.  Very difficult to disagree.

The Jets have two 33 year old one year rentals at OT, and a turning 30 year old one year rental at WR2.  Two of those three key players on the offense have extensive injury histories.

Behind Wilson and Williams, the Jets have Allen "worst hands since Justin McCareins" Lazard and a couple of UDFA JAGS.

The Jets also have a perfectly capable, moderately productive, and well rounded starting TE with three young, developing, and talented players behind him.

If the Jets take a tweener TE at #10 given their current situation, and there are blue chips available at OT or WR, I'm going to be highly critical of their decision making.  The team's needs and the talent at the top of the draft this year line up perfectly.  Stop overthinking it and don't get cute.  You have to take the blue chip at a premium position on a 5 year rookie contract when you have the opportunity to do so.

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

[Lith]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

If the jets can get a top wr then i can see them taking him and going developmental tackle in round 3, b/c of the value.  But taking bowers and then not having a 2nd round pick is difficult to justify, esp. if the OL has an injury and they’re having trouble running the ball.  I would be surprised if they picked bowers at 10, maybe in a trade back

The thing about Bowers, though is that he lined up at TE less than 50% of the time in our offense last season.  He is an offensive weapon that can line up in the backfield, slot, TE and outside.  If we take him at 10, it is because we believe he will be the best weapon available at that spot.  Like I said earlier, it is not what I want, but I do not think he would be a bad pick.  I would however be very concerned about Hackett's ability to use him creatively in our offense.   If he is only lining up at TE he is being misused.

The guy I really want at 10 is Odunze, but I doubt he will be there.  If not Odunze, guys like Fuaga/Fautanu could potentially be an upgrade over SImpson at G and slide over to tackle next year.  I like Bowers the player, but I think there are better options for us.  And for him.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Lith said:

The thing about Bowers, though is that he lined up at TE less than 50% of the time in our offense last season.  He is an offensive weapon that can line up in the backfield, slot, TE and outside.  If we take him at 10, it is because we believe he will be the best weapon available at that spot.  Like I said earlier, it is not what I want, but I do not think he would be a bad pick.  I would however be very concerned about Hackett's ability to use him creatively in our offense.   If he is only lining up at TE he is being misused.

The guy I really want at 10 is Odunze, but I doubt he will be there.  If not Odunze, guys like Fuaga/Fautanu could potentially be an upgrade over SImpson at G and slide over to tackle next year.  I like Bowers the player, but I think there are better options for us.  And for him.

Also the thing about a TE in general is that there’s not many large chunk plays.  You look at the yardage of the good TEs and you don’t see those big 50 yd tes, so if the jets take bowers, you’d need to keep feeding him the ball to get the yardage up.  I think he’s good, but he’s not right for the jets at 10

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Claymation said:

He reminds me of Denzel Mims, if Denzel caught the ball with his hands, knew how to run a route, power through tacklers, had the ability to high point a ball and knew where to line up.

Free Brock!

Since you bring it up, one of the things I'm seeing here, that's frankly done by more WRs than Mims (and some non-busts), is that he doesn't routinely leave his feet to force-feed the ball where he can body-catch in his breadbox. So I definitely like that, as he seems to just puts his hands where the ball is. It's not like they all can't do it - even those who don't pan out can catch a football with their hands - but it's got to be a hard safety-net instinct to break out of doing on an active crossing route feeling the footsteps of defenders closing in. That could also just stem from him being a beefier target & therefore a bit less worried about taking a LB hit than a 200 to 215-lb WR, too (and probably not having the same ups in the first place). It's an especially good habit to not have to break out of these days, since they throw flags for blindside-hitting defenseless receivers now anyway. 

I still have my bias against taking a TE this early, and that stems from not knowing much about these guys so most of what I see are positions. He's clearly a top prospect. Is he worth it in hindsight if his career is being Kelce II? Well yeah, of course he is. You can use that measuring stick about any prospect, though, wondering in advance if he's worth it by comparing him to any best-case scenario, top 5-10 ever at the position. Is Odunze worth #10 if he turns into a faster T.O. and without the knucklehead personality distractions? Duh, of course he is. How about one of the OTs if he becomes pre-injury Bakhtiari? Yes again. Deciding on HOF production is never the problem. The problem is what if they are legit starters but decidedly not HOF-level: what if Odunze produces like Jerry Jeudy, Bowers like Noah Fant, or (pick an OT) like Ekwonu?

Future injuries for any of these prospects aside, I accept the bust factor for Bowers is probably zero. My bias is that if he averages just 700 yards and 6 TDs that's a bust pick even if he's an excellent player. If he fits right in and puts up ~1000 yards without simply robbing yards that would've gone to Wilson/Williams then it's very different. 

[varjet]

I agree with the sentiments of the Board and am not wild about the Bowers pick, although I do think he will be used as a WR and not take a TE roster spot. 
 

But I think the Jets “Braintrust” will take Bowers if Odunze is gone and roll the dice on the other needs.  I think they will see Bowers making the biggest impact in 2024.  

[jetblue95]

41 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

So get a top tight end and make it to the conference championship you’re saying? I’m in.

You speak to tyreek hill lately? How’s he feeling? Waddle? Cee dee?

 

having read your posts, i know you are a smarter guy that to suggest that having a top TE is the reason those teams made the respective title games.

yes, i will grant that travis kelce is a big part of the chiefs success.  he's a 1st ballot hall of famer and among the 3 or so best TEs in league history.  he also plays with perhaps the best QB and for one of the best coaches in league history.  but sure, if bowers is the next kelce, he'd be worth the #10 pick.

the niners have a loaded team including the best RB in the league, two top WRs and an elite defense.  kittles is a really good player, but it's hard to say he's the reason for their success.

but let's look deeper at your statement - a top TE leads you to the conference championship game.  and let's look at recent history.  we can hold KC/SF as constants over the last 3+ years (5 for KC).

2023 - i've already posted on this above, but yeah, this year all 4 teams had pretty good TEs (of course, andrews was hurt and missed their last 6 games and the divisional round, so hard to give him "credit" for leading the team to the conference title game)

2022 - again KC/SF constant.  eagles had decent TE (dallas goedert) along with 2 top WRs and hurts in an mvp runner up year.  bengals had hayden hurst at TE, along with an elite WR corps and burrow finishing 4th in the mvp vote

2021 - KC/SF constant.  bengals had cj uzumah at TE (maybe we should have kept that guy), to go with an elite WR corps and burrow at QB.  bills had dawson knox at TE, along with diggs/allen

2020 - KC constant.  bucs appear and yeah have elite TE (again an all-time great) to go with a hall of fame QB and 2 top WRs.  bills had dawson knox at TE, along with diggs/allen.  packers had robert tonyon at TE, to go with mvp rodgers and adams at WR.

2019 - KC/SF constant.  packers had jimmy graham (washed up end of career, not prime) to go with rodgers/adams.    titans had jonnu smith at TE (along with aj brown/king henry)

 

so TL/DR - yeah, if you have an all-time great like kelce or gronk (who of course both played with all-time greats QBs), an elite TE is very valuable.  but there are plenty of teams that made the divisional round with mediocre TEs.

[Sperm Edwards]

36 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

@Sperm Edwards called a summary fool! Thanks Dan Dan the lap man! 

People who use fewer words probably know fewer words. Those are words to live by. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 hour ago, jetblue95 said:

george kittle led all TEs with 1020 yards (only TE over 1000 yards).  23 receivers had more yards than him.

travis kelce was the next TE with 984 yards, followed by evan engram with 963 and tj hockenstein with 960.  they finished 29-31 in the league in yardage.

sam laporta was 37th in the league, david njoku was 38th and trey mcbride was 40th.

i'd rather have another top 20 WR (to go with wilson) than a top 5 TE.  sure, if bowers turns into this generational unicorn of a TE, then he probably would be worth the 10th pick.  if the WR turns into top 20ish WR, he would be worth the pick.  as you never know who will succeed and who will fail, the bar is much greater for the TE to clear to be worth the 10th pick.  he needs to be among the top 2-3 TEs in the league to justify that high of a selection.

I don’t know what you’re talking about bowers is already better than Travis Kelce because he ran over some scrubs in college

[nycdan]

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

People who use fewer words probably know fewer words. Those are words to live by. 

ChatGPT has your back.

"Individuals who exhibit a propensity for concise expression often do so due to a potentially narrower spectrum of vocabulary at their disposal. This correlation suggests that the richness of one's lexicon is intricately tied to the extent of their verbal economy. Hence, the adage posits invaluable wisdom, emphasizing the profound interconnection between linguistic prowess and effective communication. It underscores the notion that a comprehensive repertoire of words not only facilitates clearer expression but also fosters deeper understanding and engagement with the world. In essence, it advocates for the cultivation of linguistic dexterity as an essential tool for navigating life's complexities."

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, slats said:

So I guess you’d’ve taken Pitts over Chase and Waddle, too? Yeah, no thanks. 

Naw.  I rated Pitts as an excellent TE prospect as did the masses,  but not above the better pass catchers in that draft.

I rate Bowers as special.  Quite special.  With good offensive scheming, more useful and productive than a flanker. 

 

[The Crusher]

27 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

People who use fewer words probably know fewer words. Those are words to live by. 

Fact

[Warfish]

28 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

People who use fewer words probably know fewer words. Those are words to live by. 

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, slats said:

So I guess you’d’ve taken Pitts over Chase and Waddle, too? Yeah, no thanks. 

Adding here.  In that draft, for me it was Trevor or bust.  I had Zach Wilson on my do not draft list.  When the Jets won those useless games and fell out of contention for Lawrence, I had a total Jets meltdown.  After that, I figured the best thing to do was get more help for the offensive line and then a WR or get the second best QB.  That year I considered Mac Jones as the only other draft-able QB.  High floor, low ceiling. 

Without Lawrence, my draft would have looked like this.  It would not have included a TE. 

Round 1. Mac Jones or best OT  - I had Slater rated as the best OL prospect in that draft. 

Round 2. Best WR - I actually had Elijah Moore as the best of the day two pass catchers. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Brevity is the tool of those with limited arsenals.

[Gastineau Lives]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Brevity is the tool of those with limited arsenals.

I would give my left nut to read just one haiku from you