Will Jets Finally Learn After Zach Wilson Flop?

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Dan Orlovsky should be fired on the spot.

Zach Wilson dragged this entire franchise into the mud for 3 years by his pisspoor play.

Completely wasted an elite-level defense and playmakers the GM placed at his disposal.

The Jets didn't "fail" Zach Wilson.  He failed them.

On top of this, he acted like a 5-year old at the podium after that embarrassing NE debacle, making excuses and refusing to take any accountability.

The cherry on top was the end of last season when he had the audacity to walk into his head coach's office and tell him and the franchise he was basically refusing to play for them again.

Bro then gets the longest concussion in NFL history and is content to go gently into the night and creep off to Denver without so much as a token tweet to thank the organization for making him a multi-millionaire and to the fans for putting up with his nonsense.

This entire franchise has been held hostage by Zach Wilson for 3y, and they are finally free.

As a result, you got an emasculated head coach basically cowering and standing on his head at the podium week after week trying to deflect shots from the media so as to avoid saying anything that might even be remotely perceived as critical of the #2 overall pick.

Zach was babied for 3 years, and in the end, he proved to be exactly that.

[Matt39]

14 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Did woody want him, probably but who knows, it doesnt change the fact one iota that the real problem is the organization and not ZW. ZW is gone, the organization is still the same, all of you who hated ZW from day 1 and never wanted to draft him, scapegoated him while the real problem still 100% exists, so congrats on that.

Zach could have done a lot more. I think we can recognize both. But the underlying issue was the Jets not recognizing he was not built to move across the country and take the position head on. That being said, his paychecks were clearing and it’s on him to be a grownup and do that job, too. Perhaps the Jets could have set up more guardrails, but if you’re not putting in the effort or building relationships with teammates as the starting QB- ain’t much you can do. 

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except that when Mel Kiper said it, it was in reference to reaching. It wasn't about drafting Lageman so much as drafting Lageman in a slot well above where he thought Lageman should've gone. I forget who Kiper favored, but it was a bust player who didn't nearly measure up to Lageman anyway. 

Ozzie Newsome was decidedly better at this than any Jets GMs has been (arguably a lot of middle schoolers would be as well). Ozzie also may have cost the Ravens another ring - or two - by handing the offense to his own Zach Wilson level QB in Kyle Boller (not unlike Tannenbaum giving the keys to a championship roster to rookie Mark Sanchez). 

Some look too much at character and not enough on skill, and you end up with picks like Schlegel the boar hunter. Some don't look enough and you end up with Elijah Moore and his sh*thead attitude. Some don't look enough at downside because they're enamored with the theoretical upside and you end up with Douglas picks like Zach & Becton. Sometimes you look too much at the floor and not enough at the ceiling, and even end up with a probowler/all-pro at a position that just doesn't matter that much even if he does (or not nearly enough to warrant such a pick) like Jamal Adams. Lastly, sometimes a GM's left himself a hole he's determined to fill with his first pick no matter which prospect falls to him, and the problems with that are self-evident.

In the end the above probably all point to the same flaw even if manifested in different ways, which is when a GM sees what he wants to see. 

It'll be interesting how Douglas handles this. We'll see tomorrow. 

He had us taking Hart Lee Dykes a Wr who the Pats took later.

[Mr. Rogers]

To actually answer the question in the Title, I do believe Joe Douglas can learn from his mistakes. Woody, on the other hand, is demented old jackass. Just when I thought woody might be learning to let the FOOTBALL guys do FOOTBALL things, he seemed to forcibly engineer the Rodgers trade. 

Anyway, as jamesr said, there's little hope to me if the Jets bring in a new Woody-hired administration. However, JD has shown at times that he can improve his management. For instance, early in his tenure, we drafted Mekhi Becton and Eli Moore. It feels like we learned about taking low character guys just because of their upside after that (although I think Saleh also helped instill that mentality). Last year, JD learned the hard way about lacking a quality backup QB. Now we have tyrod Taylor. He also learned the hard way about trusting suspect OL. I am also hopeful (though without any evidence yet) that having to take McDonald at 15 last year taught him about draft preparation in case a trade back is warranted. We'll see. 

A bigger question would be if the Jets are even in position to draft a quality QB post Rodgers. Ideally, the Rodgers era finishes well, but then we will be far from the top QB picks, and it can be very costly and difficult to move up. I fear a cycle of veteran QBs may be inbound if that's the case. Meanwhile, if the Rodgers era finishes even more disastrously, JD will likely be gone and we're back to square 1.

Anyway, tl;dr, JD has shown some ability to correct his past mistakes as a GM. I am hopeful Woody keeps him after the Rodgers era, and that it translates into more long term success. 

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Zach should have never been drafted and I think any interviewer worth his salt would have concluded the kid was not ready from maturity standpoint to move across the country and start day 1 in the NFL. Not going away for college and living on your own is a flag in itself.  I think Woody wanted him, though regardless 

Yep, flags!!!!

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

9 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Yep, flags!!!!

Saw this yesterday I think on "boy green"'s X.

I would feel pretty embarrassed to have a parent posting stuff like this for public consumption.

It's no wonder Zach still acts like a baby.

It's fine I guess having a doting mother and/or being a mama's boy, but one would think it's not necessarily what an NFL franchise is looking for in terms of a QB1 to lead a locker room of grown men.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

17 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Zach could have done a lot more. I think we can recognize both. But the underlying issue was the Jets not recognizing he was not built to move across the country and take the position head on. That being said, his paychecks were clearing and it’s on him to be a grownup and do that job, too. Perhaps the Jets could have set up more guardrails, but if you’re not putting in the effort or building relationships with teammates as the starting QB- ain’t much you can do. 

if you run any business this way, the business will fail, period. Companies make the wrong hire all the time, but letting the wrong hire at the most important position in the company, destroy the company, is bad business.

If Andy Reid is the head coach of the Jets, ZW is not drafted.

If any competent regime has a player who is as uncommitted as you claim he was, he would not be playing, its rather simple.

No matter how you slice it, this is an organizational problem, that same regime is still in complete power, and we are banking on an unvaccinated 41 year old QB, the newest covid variant could kill him, hes old as sh*t

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

In some kind of twisted way, actually have to wonder whether the stupid Payton v Hackett dustup played into the motivation for this trade.

We all know what Payton said on the record about Hackett.

This is perhaps one more lowkey attempt at an "eff you" by Payton to try and embarrass Hackett, to basically prove a point that the problem wasn't actually ZW but the ex-Bronco HC / Jet OC he has beef with.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Saw this yesterday I think on "boy green"'s X.

I would feel pretty embarrassed to have a parent posting stuff like this for public consumption.

It's no wonder Zach still acts like a baby.

It's fine I guess having a doting mother and/or being a mama's boy, but one would think it's not necessarily what an NFL franchise is looking for in terms of a QB1 to lead a locker room of grown men.

There was an accompanying petting zoo in the backyard 

[Augustiniak]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Rogers said:

To actually answer the question in the Title, I do believe Joe Douglas can learn from his mistakes. Woody, on the other hand, is demented old jackass. Just when I thought woody might be learning to let the FOOTBALL guys do FOOTBALL things, he seemed to forcibly engineer the Rodgers trade. 

Anyway, as jamesr said, there's little hope to me if the Jets bring in a new Woody-hired administration. However, JD has shown at times that he can improve his management. For instance, early in his tenure, we drafted Mekhi Becton and Eli Moore. It feels like we learned about taking low character guys just because of their upside after that (although I think Saleh also helped instill that mentality). Last year, JD learned the hard way about lacking a quality backup QB. Now we have tyrod Taylor. He also learned the hard way about trusting suspect OL. I am also hopeful (though without any evidence yet) that having to take McDonald at 15 last year taught him about draft preparation in case a trade back is warranted. We'll see. 

A bigger question would be if the Jets are even in position to draft a quality QB post Rodgers. Ideally, the Rodgers era finishes well, but then we will be far from the top QB picks, and it can be very costly and difficult to move up. I fear a cycle of veteran QBs may be inbound if that's the case. Meanwhile, if the Rodgers era finishes even more disastrously, JD will likely be gone and we're back to square 1.

Anyway, tl;dr, JD has shown some ability to correct his past mistakes as a GM. I am hopeful Woody keeps him after the Rodgers era, and that it translates into more long term success. 

They’re sitting at 10, and for all we know they’re looking at mccarthy.  Doubt it, but still, they’re drafting 10th

[Mr. Rogers]

15 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

In some kind of twisted way, actually have to wonder whether the stupid Payton v Hackett dustup played into the motivation for this trade.

We all know what Payton said on the record about Hackett.

This is perhaps one more lowkey attempt at an "eff you" by Payton to try and embarrass Hackett, to basically prove a point that the problem wasn't actually ZW but the ex-Bronco HC / Jet OC he has beef with.

That'd be the most vain, wasteful reason for making this trade possible. With how payton has behaved I wouldn't doubt it though lol

It'd be a mighty middle finger if he succeeds. Fortunately, it's safe to say he won't - if there's one thing that confuses me about this trade, it's that Wilson isn't a "payton style" QB at all! He is far more similar to the outbound Russell wilson than a Drew Brees or Jarrett Stidham. Maybe payton has a brain transplant lined up?

[Mr. Rogers]

13 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

They’re sitting at 10, and for all we know they’re looking at mccarthy.  Doubt it, but still, they’re drafting 10th

Hmm. I've heard rumors they'd be interested in moving up or down, although nothing super substantial. JD does seem to like to stay pat (or move up) but what makes you so confident? His draft history? 

I kinda agree with you I'm just curious for your thoughts. 

[Dunnie]

36 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Saw this yesterday I think on "boy green"'s X.

I would feel pretty embarrassed to have a parent posting stuff like this for public consumption.

It's no wonder Zach still acts like a baby.

It's fine I guess having a doting mother and/or being a mama's boy, but one would think it's not necessarily what an NFL franchise is looking for in terms of a QB1 to lead a locker room of grown men.

People 'the' love you 🤣

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except that when Mel Kiper said it, it was in reference to reaching. It wasn't about drafting Lageman so much as drafting Lageman in a slot well above where he thought Lageman should've gone. I forget who Kiper favored, but it was a bust player who didn't nearly measure up to Lageman anyway. 

Ozzie Newsome was decidedly better at this than any Jets GMs has been (arguably a lot of middle schoolers would be as well). Ozzie also may have cost the Ravens another ring - or two - by handing the offense to his own Zach Wilson level QB in Kyle Boller (not unlike Tannenbaum giving the keys to a championship roster to rookie Mark Sanchez). 

Some look too much at character and not enough on skill, and you end up with picks like Schlegel the boar hunter. Some don't look enough and you end up with Elijah Moore and his sh*thead attitude. Some don't look enough at downside because they're enamored with the theoretical upside and you end up with Douglas picks like Zach & Becton. Sometimes you look too much at the floor and not enough at the ceiling, and even end up with a probowler/all-pro at a position that just doesn't matter that much even if he does (or not nearly enough to warrant such a pick) like Jamal Adams. Lastly, sometimes a GM's left himself a hole he's determined to fill with his first pick no matter which prospect falls to him, and the problems with that are self-evident.

In the end the above probably all point to the same flaw even if manifested in different ways, which is when a GM sees what he wants to see. 

It'll be interesting how Douglas handles this. We'll see tomorrow. 

Be careful pal, you may find yourself in the next worst moderator poll!

[peebag]

6 hours ago, rangerous said:

Newbie coach with a newbie offensive staff is not a place for any drafted qb to go.  Maybe Knapp might have made a difference.  Maybe cavanaugh shouldn’t have been launched to quiet the coaching room.  Funny how the experienced coaches under Bowles kept hackenberg firmly planted on the bench.  And Rex doesn’t come out unscathed for starting Sanchez in a meaningless pre season game.

Yes but that's how it usually falls- bad team gets high draft pick with new coaching staff.  There's not a lot of teams that have a vet qb that can afford to draft a qb to sit a year or 2

[rangerous]

3 minutes ago, peebag said:

Yes but that's how it usually falls- bad team gets high draft pick with new coaching staff.  There's not a lot of teams that have a vet qb that can afford to draft a qb to sit a year or 2

Yes.  I think you’re right.  But looking at Sanchez and Geno, they both had the advantage of coming into a team with an established offensive coach.  For all of the schitty dislike he was the coach for three seasons and gailey was well regarded when boles came in.  Zach had newbies across the board and it showed.

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Dan Orlovsky should be fired on the spot.

Zach Wilson dragged this entire franchise into the mud for 3 years by his pisspoor play.

Completely wasted an elite-level defense and playmakers the GM placed at his disposal.

The Jets didn't "fail" Zach Wilson.  He failed them.

On top of this, he acted like a 5-year old at the podium after that embarrassing NE debacle, making excuses and refusing to take any accountability.

The cherry on top was the end of last season when he had the audacity to walk into his head coach's office and tell him and the franchise he was basically refusing to play for them again.

Bro then gets the longest concussion in NFL history and is content to go gently into the night and creep off to Denver without so much as a token tweet to thank the organization for making him a multi-millionaire and to the fans for putting up with his nonsense.

This entire franchise has been held hostage by Zach Wilson for 3y, and they are finally free.

As a result, you got an emasculated head coach basically cowering and standing on his head at the podium week after week trying to deflect shots from the media so as to avoid saying anything that might even be remotely perceived as critical of the #2 overall pick.

Zach was babied for 3 years, and in the end, he proved to be exactly that.

Orlovsky is paid to be an idiot clickbait producer.  In a way similar to Stephen A but as dumb and obnoxious as Stephen A is he actually knows more, way more about football than Dan Orlovsky and this is despite Orlovsky having been in the NFL

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

In some kind of twisted way, actually have to wonder whether the stupid Payton v Hackett dustup played into the motivation for this trade.

We all know what Payton said on the record about Hackett.

This is perhaps one more lowkey attempt at an "eff you" by Payton to try and embarrass Hackett, to basically prove a point that the problem wasn't actually ZW but the ex-Bronco HC / Jet OC he has beef with.

Payton loves tormenting Broncos fans with quarterbacks named Wilson

[Flea Flicking Frank]

27 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Orlovsky is paid to be an idiot clickbait producer.  In a way similar to Stephen A but as dumb and obnoxious as Stephen A is he actually knows more, way more about football than Dan Orlovsky and this is despite Orlovsky having been in the NFL

[nyjets1969]

They won't learn anything don't expect them to draft a QB both Saleh Woody and JD could care less about life after Rogers they are all in on SB or bust and will sacrifice the next decade. Both JD and Saleh both know if the don't make the playoffs they are done so why draft a QB that's a OT or WR or RB to help Rogers so only QB they are getting will be a walk on. Then when this fails with no cap space Garrett Wilson, sauce Gardner Breece Hall will all be traded away and the Jets will draft a overrated rookie QB with another rookie coach and GM and cycle will start all over.

[JKlecko]

16 hours ago, JetNation said:

Death, taxes and the New York Jets drafting but failing to develop a quarterback as this time it’s Zach Wilson sent packing.

Wilson follows Sam Darnold, who followed Mark Sanchez, who followed Geno Smith, who all failed under the same plan.  No matter the GM, no matter the head coach it’s always the same.  Draft a kid, play him to early, offer little guidance and wonder what went wrong.

“I think going back, it would have been great to have a veteran quarterback like a Joe Flacco that first season. But ultimately, we made the decision to jump in head first with our youth movement.”

– Joe Douglas on Zach Wilson following Jets trade for Aaron Rodgers

Funny isn’t it, that the only QB in the group who appears to have made it is Smith?  The guy who ended up spending six years as a backup to Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers and Eli Manning.  Who would’ve thought that spending some time on the bench to watch and learn from a capable veteran could benefit a signal caller?

When the NFL draft kicks off later this week, they’ll certainly look to take a quarterback.  Whether it’s South Carolina’s Spencer Rattler, Tulane’s Michael Pratt, Florida State’s Jordan Travis or any other mid to late-round option, they’ll have a shot to finally get it right.

They’ll have not only future Hall of Famer Aaron Rogers in their quarterback room, but a seasoned and experienced veteran in Tyrod Taylor who any young quarterback might be able to watch and learn from.

A new approach will guarantee nothing, but giving  a young QB a shot to sit and learn would be nice for a change.

 

The post Will Jets Finally Learn After Zach Wilson Flop? appeared first on JetNation.com - New York Jets Blog & Forum.

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In addition to Rodgers and Taylor, they should have a much better OL and better weapons around him than Darnold or Zach ever had.  I can't remember back to Geno, but Sanchez had both good weapons and a great OL, but just wasn't that good.

Sadly, that's it's for the positives.  They still have a dumbass former DC as HC, an incompetent OC, and AFAIK an incompetent QB Coach, and a schemed that isn't designed around what that QB does well, but a rigid scheme where they look for QBs and players who will fit.  IMO those are always the worst schemes.  They try to fit square pegs into round holes, rather than being creative and designing/tailoring a scheme around their players.  Until the Jets learn to do that (and as long as Woody owns the team that's highly unlikely), the Jets will probably never have a great QB again and never win anything.

[JKlecko]

13 hours ago, AFJF said:

 

Spot on!  The idea that because a QB is taken in the 1st round he has to start his rookie season is just flat out stupid.  QBs get overdrafted because there aren't enough good ones, and a large part of the reason that there aren't enough good ones is that most teams rush them onto the field too soon.  The NFL needs to put an emphasis on better QB coaching, giving them time to learn, fix their flaws, and adapt to the speed of the NFL and complexity of NFL defenses.  Those who can come in day one and play at a high level are the exceptions rather than the rule.

[Greensleeves]

8 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I’ve been saying the same thing , I’ll take this a step further, has any regime failed with a highly drafted qb, and then was given a chance at a second highly drafted qb and succeeded? I don’t recall it ever happening. Getting a qb isn’t luck, you can get lucky, but it’s more about having a regime who knows what they are looking at and what to do with it. We never have either so we don’t get a qb, then we blast the symptom and ignore the real problem 

This I disagree with. There is a very big part of it you're missing here - it's that part of the success of a player lands on the player himself. Having confidence in their abilities, mental strength, being able to pick up things on their own and actually work hard to understand what is being taught them. Certain athletes would excel here no matter the coaching. The type of player that makes everyone around them better. It's not all on coaching. Where we've failed is in being able to identity that type of player. Also, these players haven't ever failed or experienced adversity. How is their mental makeup when things get tough? More important to me is their mental strength as long as they can make the throws. 

[JKlecko]

12 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

It is the Jets’ fault.

Not for “failing him” but for drafting him in the first place.

Orlovsky is salty because he was one of the idiots duped into buying the ridiculous hype.

I disagree.  Zach has a ton of arm talent and athletic ability.  It was reasonable to draft him, but not to start him day one of his rookie season.  He needed to have time to fix his footwork and fundamentals, to learn how to read NFL Ds, to learn how to be a pocket QB, adapt to the speed of the NFL, and watch and learn from a veteran.  He needed good coaching and a scheme designed around his strengths. He didn't get ANY of those things.  Orlovsky is right that they set him up to fail.  I am a coach and teacher, and they violated every sound educational principle there is in their handling of Zach.  JD deserved to be fired for hiring yet another DC as HC who was going to hire his best friend's brother as OC, who had zero experience in developing QBs, designing an offense, or in play calling. That was just flat out stupid.

[JKlecko]

4 hours ago, Mr. Rogers said:

To actually answer the question in the Title, I do believe Joe Douglas can learn from his mistakes. Woody, on the other hand, is demented old jackass. Just when I thought woody might be learning to let the FOOTBALL guys do FOOTBALL things, he seemed to forcibly engineer the Rodgers trade. 

Anyway, as jamesr said, there's little hope to me if the Jets bring in a new Woody-hired administration. However, JD has shown at times that he can improve his management. For instance, early in his tenure, we drafted Mekhi Becton and Eli Moore. It feels like we learned about taking low character guys just because of their upside after that (although I think Saleh also helped instill that mentality). Last year, JD learned the hard way about lacking a quality backup QB. Now we have tyrod Taylor. He also learned the hard way about trusting suspect OL. I am also hopeful (though without any evidence yet) that having to take McDonald at 15 last year taught him about draft preparation in case a trade back is warranted. We'll see. 

A bigger question would be if the Jets are even in position to draft a quality QB post Rodgers. Ideally, the Rodgers era finishes well, but then we will be far from the top QB picks, and it can be very costly and difficult to move up. I fear a cycle of veteran QBs may be inbound if that's the case. Meanwhile, if the Rodgers era finishes even more disastrously, JD will likely be gone and we're back to square 1.

Anyway, tl;dr, JD has shown some ability to correct his past mistakes as a GM. I am hopeful Woody keeps him after the Rodgers era, and that it translates into more long term success. 

Until the Jets are smart enough to hire a former competent OC as HC who in turn will hire a competent, creative OC and QB Coach, they shouldn't draft another QB.  They should just bring in veterans, because they'll keep making the same stupid mistakes setting up the rookie to fail rather than succeed.  It's not rocket science, but sadly a lot of football people in the NFL are lacking in common sense and sound educational and teaching knowledged.

[Warfish]

6 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I only somewhat agree. Woody wants to be liked, and when the entire fan base turns on ZW instead of him, and his ways, we allow him to continue to do the same BS time and time again. If he got called out by the fan base with the same vigor as was directed at ZW, he may try something different. But he has no reason to, the ZW threads and posts are basically a little more vitriol versions of the Darnold posts, which were similar to the Geno and Sanchez posts. Mention any topic on JN and there is a 75% chance it turns into a ZW bashing thread. If the same thing was going on towards woody for hiring incompetent people, he may change. Hell of a lot better chance of him changing under that than when we keep blaming the symptom and allowing him to be Teflon Woody

You don't actually think Woody reads JN, do you?  

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

I disagree.  Zach has a ton of arm talent and athletic ability.  It was reasonable to draft him, but not to start him day one of his rookie season.  He needed to have time to fix his footwork and fundamentals, to learn how to read NFL Ds, to learn how to be a pocket QB, adapt to the speed of the NFL, and watch and learn from a veteran.  He needed good coaching and a scheme designed around his strengths. He didn't get ANY of those things.  Orlovsky is right that they set him up to fail.  I am a coach and teacher, and they violated every sound educational principle there is in their handling of Zach.  JD deserved to be fired for hiring yet another DC as HC who was going to hire his best friend's brother as OC, who had zero experience in developing QBs, designing an offense, or in play calling. That was just flat out stupid.

You blame the Jets for EVERYthing.  They set him up to fail by asking him to play football?  There is a limited amount of practice time each season now.  The only way to get acclimated is to play.  Wasting his rookie contract hiding him on the bench wasn't going to solve his problems.  You want to fire Joe Douglas for hiring ANOTHER 1st time HC?  You do know that he replaced a non-first time offensive HC, right?  There is some evidence that Mike LaFleur knew what he was doing, but hey we can ignore that.  Yeah, let's ignore that.  Zach will be great under Payton.  I mean Payton knows what he is doing.  When he doesn't?  It will be the Jets fault because they RUINED Zach Wilson.  Or when Denver moves up for Penix and starts him?

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

Until the Jets are smart enough to hire a former competent OC as HC who in turn will hire a competent, creative OC and QB Coach, they shouldn't draft another QB.  They should just bring in veterans, because they'll keep making the same stupid mistakes setting up the rookie to fail rather than succeed.  It's not rocket science, but sadly a lot of football people in the NFL are lacking in common sense and sound educational and teaching knowledged.

This is kind of silly. A successful division 1 passer who’s played enough games shouldn’t need his hand held navigating the league. The Jets have for the most part just drafted the wrong player. No one has been ruined. Zach was not prepared to be a pro. The OC they had in place was fine and he had him fired.

[JKlecko]

9 hours ago, jamesr said:

One mistake is thinking that "the Jets" will, or can, learn from anything.

I keep seeing the opinion that the current regime should be fired - they shouldn't be allowed to "try again" and mess up on another QB. But isn't that why the same mistake keeps happening? Because everyone drafting the QB is doing it for the first time? There is no "the Jets" if the personnel are different every time.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

You have a point.  The constant turnover in CS and GMs doesn't lead to learning, but how long is a team supposed to give their GMs and HCs, when they show no signs of learning and improving, but rather keep making dumb mistakes, and often the same dumb mistakes? It IS possible to learn from predecessor's mistakes, but you'd never know it by looking at the Jets.  JD has been the best GM the Jets have had in around 30-40 years and one of the few good ones in history, but he's made so many draft picks, and dumbass decision in FA and in hiring Saleh.  When is enough enough?  Do you really trust that he will make the right decisions in this draft?  I don't.  Even if he does and he stays, but Saleh and the CS is fired, do you trust that he will make any better decision in hiring the new HC than he did last time?  I don't.  I loved JD and was one of his biggest fans, but I've lost about all confidence, trust in and love for JD.  If he screws this draft, I want him fired into the sun.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

Until the Jets are smart enough to hire a former competent OC as HC who in turn will hire a competent, creative OC and QB Coach, they shouldn't draft another QB.  They should just bring in veterans, because they'll keep making the same stupid mistakes setting up the rookie to fail rather than succeed.  It's not rocket science, but sadly a lot of football people in the NFL are lacking in common sense and sound educational and teaching knowledged.

If only they'd hired Matt Nagy!  Zach Wilson could have had Justin Fields level success!

[Mr. Rogers]

9 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

Until the Jets are smart enough to hire a former competent OC as HC who in turn will hire a competent, creative OC and QB Coach, they shouldn't draft another QB.  They should just bring in veterans, because they'll keep making the same stupid mistakes setting up the rookie to fail rather than succeed.  It's not rocket science, but sadly a lot of football people in the NFL are lacking in common sense and sound educational and teaching knowledged.

To be fair,  bad OC can also ruin the offense even with a solid veteran. Regardless of what happens, that hire needs to go right. 

Also, @ your prior post, I don't think anyone can argue that Lafleur did little or nothing to develop zach. But OCs have to get their start somewhere, and some of the best OC hires in recent years have been rookie OCs. I feel like Mike white and our early season run game in 2021 and (especially) 2022 prior to injuries showed that Lafleurs ideas had some merit. He just was NOT ready to implement them with a rookie QB, particularly one like zach that needed development.

I think an established vet OC is best for the Jets next hire too, especially if we're pairing with a young QB. But it's not always that simple. We could pair a vet QB with an innovative fresh mind, or even a young QB if we have the right QB coach. Just need... Woody.... to hire better....... lol

[JKlecko]

7 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I guess what didn’t the Jets do for Wilson that they could have done? I don’t think he wanted to sit. They cleared the road for him to start right away. It’s mostly on the player to figure it out at the professional level.

If it's on the player to figure it out himself, why even have a CS?  Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. The levels of coaching these players get is all over the place, and many high school and collegiate coaches aren't worried about whether a player who  plays for them will play in the NFL, they just want to win games to make them look good, so if a player with a lot of raw athletic ability give him the best chance to win, he's going to play that kid rather than sitting him so he can fix his fundamentals or learn how to do things the right way.  NFL coaches should be the best in the world.  They should know how to fix technique/fundamentals issues and get players ready to play at the highest level they can.

It doesn't matter if Zach wanted to sit or not.  It should have been what was best for him and best for the team in the long run.  By throwing him out there day one with severely flawed footwork, and flawed understanding of how to play QB in the NFL, and in a scheme that wasn't designed around what he does well and to hide his flaws, coupled with a rookie HC, rookie OC, and rookie QB Coach, none of whom knew what in the the  hell they were doing, the Jets gave him no chance to succeed.

[JKlecko]

12 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

You have a point.  The constant turnover in CS and GMs doesn't necessarily lead to learning, but how long is a team supposed to give their GMs and HCs, when they show no signs of learning and improving, but rather keep making dumb mistakes, and often the same dumb mistakes? It IS possible to learn from predecessor's mistakes, but you'd never know it by looking at the Jets.  JD has been the best GM the Jets have had in around 30-40 years and one of the few good ones in history, but he's made so many draft picks, and dumbass decision in FA and in hiring Saleh.  When is enough enough?  Do you really trust that he will make the right decisions in this draft?  I don't.  Even if he does and he stays, but Saleh and the CS is fired, do you trust that he will make any better decision in hiring the new HC than he did last time?  I don't.  I loved JD and was one of his biggest fans, but I've lost about all confidence, trust in and love for JD.  If he screws this draft, I want him fired into the sun.

Having worked for Ozzie Smith with the Ravens and Howie Roseman with the Eagles, JD should have had a better understanding of what a rookie QB needs.  Heck anyone working in the NFL should have a better understanding of these things than fans do, but often, the fans know more than those in the NFL do.  I don't know if it's arrogance, or they think they're different, or they have blinders on and can't see the mistakes that others have made, or what.

 

[JKlecko]

7 hours ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you ALWAYS have a choice, ALWAYS. 

Results based hindsight analysis is always flawed.

You have to look at the process. There are times when people use the right process and it doesnt work out. There are also times people use the wrong process and it does work out.

Our process has sucked for all of those QB's taken, every single one of them. The Walsh coaching tree has a way, way better historical average at the QB position than the rest of the NFL. They obviously know what they are doing. You hire poeple with the right process, we don't have this many failures at the QB position. You only get this level of failure by having terrible processes, namely hiring first time DC's as HC and letting them bring in incompetent offensive coaches.

Ill never understand the ZW hate, nor the Sanchez hate, nor the Geno, or Darnold hate....., the hate should be directed at the people who don't know what the F they are doing, and keep drafting and "developing" these players. 

When Andy Reid is availalbe and you keep Todd Bowles, you deserve what you get, that was not ZW's fault by the way, but keep blaming ZW for everything, you soon will get Jack Thilson who you can hate on, don't worry

Great posts in this thread!!!!  I couldn't possibly agree more!

[JKlecko]

7 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

The Jets QB busts didn't fail because they were made starters too early, or because they didn't get good enough coaching, etc. They bombed because they sucked.

The Jets' failed QB draft history is a result of bad luck and bad scouting. You can't do anything about the former, but you can do something about the latter. I doubt that they have, though.

WRONG!