Will Jets Finally Learn After Zach Wilson Flop?

[JetNation]

Death, taxes and the New York Jets drafting but failing to develop a quarterback as this time it’s Zach Wilson sent packing.

Wilson follows Sam Darnold, who followed Mark Sanchez, who followed Geno Smith, who all failed under the same plan.  No matter the GM, no matter the head coach it’s always the same.  Draft a kid, play him to early, offer little guidance and wonder what went wrong.

“I think going back, it would have been great to have a veteran quarterback like a Joe Flacco that first season. But ultimately, we made the decision to jump in head first with our youth movement.”

– Joe Douglas on Zach Wilson following Jets trade for Aaron Rodgers

Funny isn’t it, that the only QB in the group who appears to have made it is Smith?  The guy who ended up spending six years as a backup to Russell Wilson, Philip Rivers and Eli Manning.  Who would’ve thought that spending some time on the bench to watch and learn from a capable veteran could benefit a signal caller?

When the NFL draft kicks off later this week, they’ll certainly look to take a quarterback.  Whether it’s South Carolina’s Spencer Rattler, Tulane’s Michael Pratt, Florida State’s Jordan Travis or any other mid to late-round option, they’ll have a shot to finally get it right.

They’ll have not only future Hall of Famer Aaron Rogers in their quarterback room, but a seasoned and experienced veteran in Tyrod Taylor who any young quarterback might be able to watch and learn from.

A new approach will guarantee nothing, but giving  a young QB a shot to sit and learn would be nice for a change.

 

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[AFJF]

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

50 minutes ago, AFJF said:

 

It is the Jets’ fault.

Not for “failing him” but for drafting him in the first place.

Orlovsky is salty because he was one of the idiots duped into buying the ridiculous hype.

[varjet]

When Rodgers leaves so will the OTs, Garrett and Breece. 
 

Woody will first draft another Qb. 

[rangerous]

Newbie coach with a newbie offensive staff is not a place for any drafted qb to go.  Maybe Knapp might have made a difference.  Maybe cavanaugh shouldn’t have been launched to quiet the coaching room.  Funny how the experienced coaches under Bowles kept hackenberg firmly planted on the bench.  And Rex doesn’t come out unscathed for starting Sanchez in a meaningless pre season game.

[OilfieldJet]

He was a bad draft pick who was also managed poorly. 

[jetsfan4life72]

I really hope they get Pratt or Rattler. 
OL, WR, QB, S and then LB or DT. IDC if they only come away with four picks from trading. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Woody will never learn, he will hire Maleh next time, same first time HC who is a DC happy to be a HC and will do whatever Woody says, will bring in bad OC, draft bad QB's, and the fan base will hate on the next QB and say if only Maleh had a QB, and the fan base will let Woody and Maleh off the hook again, and round and round we will go

[jamesr]

One mistake is thinking that "the Jets" will, or can, learn from anything.

I keep seeing the opinion that the current regime should be fired - they shouldn't be allowed to "try again" and mess up on another QB. But isn't that why the same mistake keeps happening? Because everyone drafting the QB is doing it for the first time? There is no "the Jets" if the personnel are different every time.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Bobby816]

Give me Pratt or Travis

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, jamesr said:

One mistake is thinking that "the Jets" will, or can, learn from anything.

I keep seeing the opinion that the current regime should be fired - they shouldn't be allowed to "try again" and mess up on another QB. But isn't that why the same mistake keeps happening? Because everyone drafting the QB is doing it for the first time? There is no "the Jets" if the personnel are different every time.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

I get what you’re saying, that a regime and a gm will hopefully learn from their mistakes, yet you’d think they’d also learn from all the other mistakes of other teams first.

that said I’d like to see what jd does now.  If he takes bowers he’s learned nothing.  Big draft for him. 

[Integrity28]

20 minutes ago, jamesr said:

One mistake is thinking that "the Jets" will, or can, learn from anything.

I keep seeing the opinion that the current regime should be fired - they shouldn't be allowed to "try again" and mess up on another QB. But isn't that why the same mistake keeps happening? Because everyone drafting the QB is doing it for the first time? There is no "the Jets" if the personnel are different every time.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Good post.

[Integrity28]

I’d like to add a different angle to this discussion… take a look at our society… is there any indication that ANYONE has the capacity to “learn their lesson”?

Other than maybe 5-year old kids.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sanchez didn’t follow Geno Smith. Also there were more than 3. 1st and 2nd rounders within the last ~20 years:

• ‘06 Clemens
• ‘09 Sanchez
• ‘13 Smith
• ‘16 Hackenberg
• ‘18 Darnold
• ‘21 Wilson

JFC what a list.

Anyway, they didn’t throw Clemens or Hackenberg out there right away. Actually never mind throwing Hackenberg out there right away — they never even suited him up until enough QBs got put on IR injured to temporarily promote him to QB2 for like one game.

[The Crusher]

Nope, not really a thing with this franchise. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

One mistake is thinking that "the Jets" will, or can, learn from anything.

I keep seeing the opinion that the current regime should be fired - they shouldn't be allowed to "try again" and mess up on another QB. But isn't that why the same mistake keeps happening? Because everyone drafting the QB is doing it for the first time? There is no "the Jets" if the personnel are different every time.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

I’ve been saying the same thing , I’ll take this a step further, has any regime failed with a highly drafted qb, and then was given a chance at a second highly drafted qb and succeeded? I don’t recall it ever happening. Getting a qb isn’t luck, you can get lucky, but it’s more about having a regime who knows what they are looking at and what to do with it. We never have either so we don’t get a qb, then we blast the symptom and ignore the real problem 

[rayzor]

Wilson was the consensus 2 behind Lawrence so it's hard to fault the Jets for drafting him.  Just like you don't risk drafting him over Lawrence even if you think he's better because that's how you lose your job.  Getting drafted that high also puts pressure on you to start right away but Wilson wasn't ready.  Our next QB will be selected in the middle to late rounds with zero pressure to play.  Hopefully with the right coaching, they can  become something.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I’ve been saying the same thing , I’ll take this a step further, has any regime failed with a highly drafted qb, and then was given a chance at a second highly drafted qb and succeeded? I don’t recall it ever happening. Getting a qb isn’t luck, you can get lucky, but it’s more about having a regime who knows what they are looking at and what to do with it. We never have either so we don’t get a qb, then we blast the symptom and ignore the real problem 

Jd bought himself more time by trading for rodgers, and was granted a stay of execution last season b/c he only had 3 plays.  Not even sure if jd will be looking at guys like pratt in rounds 4 or 5 despite bringing in a few.  It’s a weird situation.

[jamesr]

14 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I’ve been saying the same thing , I’ll take this a step further, has any regime failed with a highly drafted qb, and then was given a chance at a second highly drafted qb and succeeded? I don’t recall it ever happening. Getting a qb isn’t luck, you can get lucky, but it’s more about having a regime who knows what they are looking at and what to do with it. We never have either so we don’t get a qb, then we blast the symptom and ignore the real problem 

It's likely also why the new hires at GM are either previous failures, or first timers. Because the guys who have done it successfully before almost never hit the open market - they are far too valuable to let go.

And every new GM is going to believe that he'll be the one who gets it right where everyone else failed.  

[jamesr]

13 minutes ago, rayzor said:

Wilson was the consensus 2 behind Lawrence so it's hard to fault the Jets for drafting him.  Just like you don't risk drafting him over Lawrence even if you think he's better because that's how you lose your job.  Getting drafted that high also puts pressure on you to start right away but Wilson wasn't ready.  Our next QB will be selected in the middle to late rounds with zero pressure to play.  Hopefully with the right coaching, they can  become something.

There's a real conundrum here - if you draft a guy early, he's expected to be good straight away (even if he isn't) and you'll get criticised for picking him if he doesn't start straight away. But if you try to pick that guy in a more "appropriate" draft spot - like say, Zach in Round 2 or 3 because he is "toolsy" but needs to sit and learn, he won't be there.

KC are the best example of getting it right, obviously - they had a good incumbent starter to sit Mahomes behind, they were able to trade up to pick him early enough that he was still on the board, and they had the right people around him to prepare him to play. Most teams picking early in the draft don't have even one of these things, and never all three - because if they did, they wouldn't be picking early in the first place.   

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, jamesr said:

It's likely also why the new hires at GM are either previous failures, or first timers. Because the guys who have done it successfully before almost never hit the open market - they are far too valuable to let go.

And every new GM is going to believe that he'll be the one who gets it right where everyone else failed.  

I can live with the first time GM for the reasons you stated, the proven ones are not let go. That said, I would strongly prefer to hire a GM from a proven blood line than some sh*tty team. JD kind of fit that mold, kind of, but our prior GM's did not except Idzik who was a cap guy and not a personnel guy. Same with the HC. If you go out and get an Andy Reid assistant and it does not work, I can live with it, but going out and getting these first time HC's who are DC's and they bring in crappy OC's so they don't get overshadowed, I cannot live with that. The first question of a HC interview should be what is your plan for the QB position, and if they don't pass that with flying colors, move on immediately

[Matt39]

5 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

It is the Jets’ fault.

Not for “failing him” but for drafting him in the first place.

Orlovsky is salty because he was one of the idiots duped into buying the ridiculous hype.

Orlovsky was ripping Zach for not knowing the plays and then suddenly changed his tune. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

One mistake is thinking that "the Jets" will, or can, learn from anything.

I keep seeing the opinion that the current regime should be fired - they shouldn't be allowed to "try again" and mess up on another QB. But isn't that why the same mistake keeps happening? Because everyone drafting the QB is doing it for the first time? There is no "the Jets" if the personnel are different every time.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

SO. SO. Accurate. I think they are learning from their mistakes, as much as we want to say they just suck. They'll most definitely draft a QB in the later rounds. So they'll have a veteran back up and developmental QB3 they drafted. As it should be. 

 

[Matt39]

I guess what didn’t the Jets do for Wilson that they could have done? I don’t think he wanted to sit. They cleared the road for him to start right away. It’s mostly on the player to figure it out at the professional level.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I guess what didn’t the Jets do for Wilson that they could have done? I don’t think he wanted to sit. They cleared the road for him to start right away. It’s mostly on the player to figure it out at the professional level.

when my kids were toddlers, they did not want to do their homework, I made them. ZW not wanting to sit does not absolve the Jets, quite the contrary. Its not mostly on the player, its on the organization. if the player doesnt figure it out, you dont' play him, its not f'ng rocket science. If I run a business and I hire a sales guy, and he proves himself incompetent, and I keep letting him ruin my business with his incompetence, its on me for letting him, not him for not figuring it out. This is common sense that is lost on this fan base because of a deranged hatred of a white boy from Utah.

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, JetNation said:

Wilson follows Sam Darnold, who followed Mark Sanchez, who followed Geno Smith

Wilson (2021) followed Darnold (2018). 

Darnold (2018) followed Hackenberg (2016).

Hackenberg (2016) followed Geno (2013). 

Geno (2013) followed Sanchez (2009). 

Hard to take an article seriously when they can't even get this right at the beginning. 

9 hours ago, JetNation said:

, who all failed under the same plan.  No matter the GM, no matter the head coach it’s always the same.  Draft a kid, play him to early, offer little guidance and wonder what went wrong.

This isn't a "plan", this is how the NFL works.

And they all got guidance, some a ridiculous amount of hand-holding, special assistant coach, guidance. 

They were simply bad picks and bad QB's.  Draft has a less than 50% success rate at QB high.  We've had bad GM's for a decade plus.  Seeing bad GM's go 0-4 on a 50% bet isn't exactly the same odds as winning the lottery.  Combine those bad QB picks with mostly bad rosters (again, bad GM's) and the results are what they are. 

Bad GM's running badly managed teams drafting bad QB's turn out bad.  News at 11.  

P.S. Every whiner now bemoaning not sitting QB's for years to start their career, are the same folks who loudly and angrily demanded those same QB's start day 1 without any competition or veteran QB's to unseat.  So save this blatant hypocrisy, if you please.  You're part of the problem.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

when my kids were toddlers, they did not want to do their homework, I made them. ZW not wanting to sit does not absolve the Jets, quite the contrary. Its not mostly on the player, its on the organization. if the player doesnt figure it out, you dont' play him, its not f'ng rocket science. If I run a business and I hire a sales guy, and he proves himself incompetent, and I keep letting him ruin my business with his incompetence, its on me for letting him, not him for not figuring it out. This is common sense that is lost on this fan base because of a deranged hatred of a white boy from Utah.

I agree with you there. He should have never been given a chance to play. He was picked high so they had no choice. How the Jets handled the QB room never made sense. Wilson’s performance was not going to change though. He’s not good. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Just now, Matt39 said:

I agree with you there. He should have never been given a chance to play. He was picked high so they had no choice. How the Jets handled the QB room never made sense. Wilson’s performance was not going to change though. He’s not good. 

you ALWAYS have a choice, ALWAYS. 

Results based hindsight analysis is always flawed.

You have to look at the process. There are times when people use the right process and it doesnt work out. There are also times people use the wrong process and it does work out.

Our process has sucked for all of those QB's taken, every single one of them. The Walsh coaching tree has a way, way better historical average at the QB position than the rest of the NFL. They obviously know what they are doing. You hire poeple with the right process, we don't have this many failures at the QB position. You only get this level of failure by having terrible processes, namely hiring first time DC's as HC and letting them bring in incompetent offensive coaches.

Ill never understand the ZW hate, nor the Sanchez hate, nor the Geno, or Darnold hate....., the hate should be directed at the people who don't know what the F they are doing, and keep drafting and "developing" these players. 

When Andy Reid is availalbe and you keep Todd Bowles, you deserve what you get, that was not ZW's fault by the way, but keep blaming ZW for everything, you soon will get Jack Thilson who you can hate on, don't worry

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you ALWAYS have a choice, ALWAYS. 

Results based hindsight analysis is always flawed.

You have to look at the process. There are times when people use the right process and it doesnt work out. There are also times people use the wrong process and it does work out.

Our process has sucked for all of those QB's taken, every single one of them. The Walsh coaching tree has a way, way better historical average at the QB position than the rest of the NFL. They obviously know what they are doing. You hire poeple with the right process, we don't have this many failures at the QB position. You only get this level of failure by having terrible processes, namely hiring first time DC's as HC and letting them bring in incompetent offensive coaches.

Ill never understand the ZW hate, nor the Sanchez hate, nor the Geno, or Darnold hate....., the hate should be directed at the people who don't know what the F they are doing, and keep drafting and "developing" these players. 

When Andy Reid is availalbe and you keep Todd Bowles, you deserve what you get, that was not ZW's fault by the way, but keep blaming ZW for everything, you soon will get Jack Thilson who you can hate on, don't worry

It’s Woody. And there’s nothing we can do about that. He calls the shots. 

[#27TheDominator]

I think "learning their lesson" is what causes the ridiculous swings.  Going for Favree orPRodgers.  They didn't just draft young guys and play them out of the gate.  They did it with Wilson, but Clemens sat behind Pennington.  Geno was supposed to sit behind Sanchez.  Petty and Hackenberg had Fitzpatrick (and Geno).  Darnold had "Uncle Josh." 

You try to get a good QB.  There are different ways.  They made a big play for Cousins.  It made sense to have a learning year with Zach.  It worked for the D, but not Zach.  More importantly, he did not seem to respond well to anything they did and he was very extra.  We need an experienced coach - bring in Cavanaugh.  LaFleur needs to be on the sideline to hold his hand between drives - even though he was obviously more comfortable and called the plays better from the booth.  He had a good rapport with John Beck - the Jets hired him and brought him on.  You don't think this sh*t shows to the rest of the team?  Guys that are just grinding every day in practice and the weight room while Douchey Rich Boy is wearing a red jersey and getting every opportunity and still letting the team down? 

They failed.  They have failed before.  They will fail again.  People acted like the Pats were geniuses for Brady so much that every piece of sh*t they rolled through the board acted like they were going to be HOFers.  Newsflash, Mac Jones sucks.  The Pats drafted Brady, but they also drafted Jarrett Stidham.  The 49ers drafted Purdy, but that very draft they burned like 3 #1s on Trey Lance.  You keep trying until you hit.  Don't get all reactionary.  That is what gets us coaches like Gase.  Forget the wild pendulum swings and make incremental improvements.  And keep trying.

[Jetsfan80]

Zach Wilson could have sat for 3 years and it wouldn't have made a f**king difference.

You could legitimately argue the Jets "failed" Sam Darnold, but even he sucked in San Francisco, the best possible destination for a rebuilding QB.  If the Jets were drafting secretly good prospects left and right that they "failed to develop", then we'd see them go on to success elsewhere at strong destinations.  We don't.  Mark Sanchez failed at FOUR STOPS post-Jets.  He was gift-wrapped the Denver job and lost it to Trevor f**kin' Siemian.  Darnold is already on his 4th team.  Zach Wilson will kick around a few practice squads before he ends up color commentating BYU games prior to his 28th birthday.

The Jets' bigger far bigger problem has been talent evaluation.  They take QBs who have no business going that high.  Mark Sanchez didn't get enough starts at USC.  Sam Darnold led all of FBS in turnovers his final year there and played Linebacker in High School.  Zach Wilson was a red flag-ridden late riser in a pandemic, taken # 2 overall in an otherwise loaded draft class.  And we don't even need to talk about Christian Hackenberg.

The Jets suck but not primarily for the reasons stated in the article.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Zach Wilson could have sat for 3 years and it wouldn't have made a f**king difference.

You could legitimately argue the Jets "failed" Sam Darnold, but even he sucked in San Francisco, the best possible destination for a rebuilding QB.  If the Jets were drafting secretly good prospects left and right that they "failed to develop", then we'd see them go on to success elsewhere at strong destinations.  We don't.  Mark Sanchez failed at FOUR STOPS post-Jets.  He was gift-wrapped the Denver job and lost it to Trevor f**kin' Siemian.  Darnold is already on his 4th team.  Zach Wilson will kick around a few practice squads before he ends up color commentating BYU games prior to his 28th birthday.

The Jets' bigger far bigger problem has been talent evaluation.  They take QBs who have no business going that high.  Mark Sanchez didn't get enough starts at USC.  Sam Darnold led all of FBS in turnovers his final year there and played Linebacker in High School.  Zach Wilson was a red flag-ridden late riser in a pandemic, taken # 2 overall in an otherwise loaded draft class.  And we don't even need to talk about Christian Hackenberg.

The Jets suck but not primarily for the reasons stated in the article.

[Dunnie]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sanchez didn’t follow Geno Smith. Also there were more than 3. 1st and 2nd rounders within the last ~20 years:

• ‘06 Clemens
• ‘09 Sanchez
• ‘13 Smith
• ‘16 Hackenberg
• ‘18 Darnold
• ‘21 Wilson

JFC what a list.

Anyway, they didn’t throw Clemens or Hackenberg out there right away. Actually never mind throwing Hackenberg out there — they never even suited him up until enough QBs got put on IR injured to temporarily promote him to QB2 for like one game.

Yep -- a whole lotta sh*t piles. They must have all been horrible prospects out of college (insert sarcasm) .. bad luck i guess

[Greenseed4]

Ooh ooh ooh, now do Trey Lance, Mac Jones, and Justin Fields.

[AFJF]