What evidence is there that Saleh is the right man for Jets HC?

[doitny]

13 minutes ago, peebag said:

I don't see that lining - I think with the amount of resources that was put into the defensive side, any halfway decent coach would have had the same or better results.

what resources? 

QW and CJ were already here when JD got here but his draft picks have mostly been on offense.

5 out of 8 1st rd picks on offense 62%

4 out of 4 2nd rd picks on offense 100%

so thats 9-12 premium picks on the offense 75%

3rd rd 2-4 50%

4th rd 7-8 87%

first 4 rds.... 18-24 75%

the offense gets alot more resources than the defense

 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

40 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

They should have coached up to not run backwards  when rushed? 

Almost every passing play would've ended up being a sack in ~2.5 seconds.

[bicketybam]

17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Almost every passing play would've ended up being a sack in ~2.5 seconds.

Gotta get that ball out!

[Jetsfan80]

36 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Almost every passing play would've ended up being a sack in ~2.5 seconds.

Flacco, Mike White, Josh Johnson, Trevor Siemian.....statue pocket passers who consistently stepped up in the pocket all had sack rates twice as low as Zach Wilson with the same exact coaching and surrounding personnel.

You've been proven wrong on this over, and over, and over again and refuse to listen.  You should have stuck with your opinion of Zach in years 1-2!

[Flea Flicking Frank]

[TuscanyTile2]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Flacco, Mike White, Josh Johnson, Trevor Siemian.....statue pocket passers who consistently stepped up in the pocket all had sack rates twice as low as Zach Wilson with the same exact coaching and surrounding personnel.

You've been proven wrong on this over, and over, and over again and refuse to listen.  You should have stuck with your opinion of Zach in years 1-2!

Siemian is a "surrender QB".  Flacco is a veteran who has won a SB.  He does understand the position better than ZW.  Mike White was heroic but nearly got himself killed.  Josh Johnson played in GT against the Colts.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Siemian is a "surrender QB".  Flacco is a veteran who has won a SB.  He does understand the position better than ZW.  Mike White was heroic but nearly got himself killed.  Josh Johnson played in GT against the Colts.

Bruh.

[THE BARON]

21 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

In all fairness to him, most of us would find some level of agreement that the best modern day head coaches would have found it extraordinarily difficult to make the playoffs with Zach Wilson as QB playing behind an injury ravaged OL that wasn’t that good to begin with.

[A pretty obvious shame on JD and the powers that be — possibly including Saleh - who decided Zach was the right choice for the primary backup QB last year (even before Rodgers injury).  Season killing contingency planning behind a then 39 year old Rodgers who showed some signs of breaking down the year prior (thumb, ribs).]

That said, any good owner or GM will look for leading indicators that the current HC is the ‘right guy’, provided he has a good starting QB.  Wins ultimately being the lagging result.

I ask you, what are those positive signs that Saleh has already shown that gives you confidence he is the right guy for the job?

Or why are you so convinced he doesn’t have what it takes to be a a good or better than good HC?

There are a few things that I believe bode well for RS.  Even when the offense was doing nothing but causing problems, the defense still pulled hard until the end.  They only let go of the rope very late in the season when all was lost.  Saleh runs the defense and that has been the best part of the team by far.  He delegated the offense to the OC who was hamstrung with a disaster of a QB.  Delegating is not a problem.  Zach Wilson made them ALL look bad.  Also...No matter how bad things got, the locker room never fell apart.  It was never toxic other than ALL the players realizing Zach Wilson was holding them all back.  There was no back biting or pissing all over others.  In a VERY frustrating situation like the Jets had due to Wilson, it is a good indication that they like and respect Saleh and his influence has them liking and respecting themselves and each other.  You can see that from some of the individual players from time to time.  There are hints in what they say and how they say it, that there is a good team/comrade environment there that Saleh has built.  And now, even though ZACH WILSON WAS THEIR PROBLEM, Saleh says he will be more involved in the offense.  Not that he needs to be with Rodgers there.

Saleh is a good coach and a good influence that was saddled with an impossibly bad QB.

If Rodgers hold up, the Jets and Saleh are going to be of the highest quality. 

Also want to say.  It has been a long time since the Jets have had so many players I really love to pull for.  Not just the performance, but their overall quality.  That included Rodgers.   I would not let the two day absence cloud things.  He's jacked.  We'll see it.  

[bicketybam]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Siemian is a "surrender QB".  Flacco is a veteran who has won a SB.  He does understand the position better than ZW.  Mike White was heroic but nearly got himself killed.  Josh Johnson played in GT against the Colts.

Johnson came into the Colts game a minute into the second quarter with the Jets down by a touchdown. That's not garbage time.

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Johnson came into the Colts game a minute into the second quarter with the Jets down by a touchdown. That's not garbage time.

He came in when they were down 14-7.  He drove them for a FG to make the game 21-10.  His next scoring drive was when the Jets were down 42-10.

[bicketybam]

11 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He came in when they were down 14-7.  He drove them for a FG to make the game 21-10.  His next scoring drive was when the Jets were down 42-10.

Look, you can't use "garbage time" as an excuse for his performance. Wilson probably played 1/2 his career in garbage time and it never helped him. Let's be fair.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

He came in when they were down 14-7.  He drove them for a FG to make the game 21-10.  His next scoring drive was when the Jets were down 42-10.

Gotta wonder why Sean Payton doesn’t see this secret goodness out of Zach.  What’s he doing stashing him 3rd behind the great Jarrett Stidham and Bo Nix on the depth chart before he inevitably cuts him?

[joewilly12]

Saleh JD Rodgers have won nothing here. 

[Claymation]

3 hours ago, doitny said:

what resources? 

QW and CJ were already here when JD got here but his draft picks have mostly been on offense.

5 out of 8 1st rd picks on offense 62%

4 out of 4 2nd rd picks on offense 100%

so thats 9-12 premium picks on the offense 75%

3rd rd 2-4 50%

4th rd 7-8 87%

first 4 rds.... 18-24 75%

the offense gets alot more resources than the defense

 

 

While accurate, he did retain both of them.

[JetPotato]

Depends on your perspective of what it means to be the "right man for Jets HC".

I would say, based on the franchise's history and identity, the fact that he's a solid defensive coordinator who absolutely sucks as a head coach means that he 100% is the right man to be the Jets HC.

[Claymation]

I want two outcomes for Zach in Denver, either he fails miserably, or he starts & is successful as hell.

Without a horse in the race, one faction of this forum will be miserable and the other will gloat like there is no tomorrow. 

Either way it will be entertaining to read the dozen or so threads about Zach in the Rocky Mountain Region.

[CanadienJetsFan]

His clock management rivals that of Bowles…

[Maynard13]

@OtherwiseHappyinLife Why didnt you ask this 4 years ago?  Saleh wasnt responsible for drafting Zach the Wack. Nor was he responsible for having a bonafide backup QB during his tenure. That falls on JD. It only took him several years to finally get a reliable backup in Taylor.  They should have had a reliable one in place and BEFORE Wilson even started playing.  That way they could have brought him along slowly to ultimately see he wasnt the answer.  Saleh is a very good defensive coach. The Jets D was atrocious when he took over and has now become one of the best in ther NFL under his reign.  If there is any flaw in his resume, its not hiring a legit, experienced OC to deal with the offense which he is clueless to run.  Ditka referred to Ryan to take care of the Da Bears defense. The Bears D won that Supoer Bowl that year. McMhaon was a very average game manager QB his entire career.  His job was NOT to lose the game and let the defense win the game.  Had saleh had a QB like this, the Jets would have had much more success the last few years instead of wasting their time trying to save face with Zach. The defense has steadily improved every year under Saleh. Thats encouraging and ,for the most part, their stars ARE VERY YOUNG and will only get better.  Saleh has needed an OC guru since being hired.  Still doesnt have one. But Rodgers has confidence and success with Hackett so we'll just have to cross our fingers there.  So for all things considered, I am ok with teh job Saleh has done. It doesnt all fall on him.  Hopefully, JD and Saleh can figure things out sooner rather than if both stay on even after Rodgers.  

[slats]

20 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It's impossible to reconcile...

Saleh is a good coach AND Joe Douglas has been a good GM.

It can't be both.

Yet JetNation is attempting to make that case.  If I had to make a call on this..

I'd say Saleh has been a pretty solid HC while JD, barring one great trade, has been a disaster.

Horrific QB play and injuries, particularly to the OL but certainly including Rodgers’ achilles and Breece’s ACL. Saleh comes from the defensive side of the ball and his defense is first rate. That would be fine, but he’s also managed to keep the team together despite -yes!- the adversity they’ve faced over the last couple years. Last season broke just about everyone, and yet the team stuck together and played with pride down the stretch when there was no good reason to. Previous teams completely checked out. 
 
The complaints on this forum about Joe Douglas are generally misinformed stupidity. He’s not judged by his detractors in comparison to successful NFL GMs, he’s instead judged against a perfect model with the 20/20 vision of hindsight. Every NFL GM misses a lot. The key is to move on -and learn- from those mistakes. That’s what JD does. The roster this year is solid up top and loaded with depth. It’s not perfect, but -by all means- please point me to a perfect roster in the NFL. He also gets criticized for the QB position. I get that, but a quality fix was undertaken last year but it was undermined by injury. Personally, I think Woody ****ed up by not extending Douglas already. Letting him go would be more stupidly, but this owner has demonstrated a willingness to bend to the lowest common denominator. Saleh, I’d give an incomplete, mostly because of the incompetence that has been the QB position. 
 
How many of you whiny bitches wanted Ulbrich fired after one season? 

[RutgersJetFan]

Do we ever get to judge any of these guys on wins or no

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Do we ever get to judge any of these guys on wins or no

Of course not, if we did that then we could just type “ blows” and move on to yard work and family outtings you animal! 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, slats said:

The complaints on this forum about Joe Douglas are generally misinformed stupidity. He’s not judged by his detractors in comparison to successful NFL GMs, he’s instead judged against a perfect model with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.

No, he's judged by how he's actually performed in his job.   His Job is to win Championships - he hasn't come remotely close to that.   In fact, over his tenure the team has one of the worst, if not the worst, record in the league.  There is nothing hindsight about it. 

You might like the guy and think maybe there's something there - but to say people that think he's been bad is misinformed and stupid  is beyond absurd.  By every accountable metric he's been an unmitigated disaster.

[slats]

21 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No, he's judged by how he's actually performed in his job.   His Job is to win Championships - he hasn't come remotely close to that.   In fact, over his tenure the team has one of the worst, if not the worst, record in the league.  There is nothing hindsight about it. 

You might like the guy and think maybe there's something there - but to say people that think he's been bad is misinformed and stupid  is beyond absurd.  By every accountable metric he's been an unmitigated disaster.

His #1 mistake was not sticking with Darnold his first year, and instead drafting a QB who was the 34th best QB out of 32 for two years before bringing in a starting caliber one. You would like to continue to argue that it’s not all Zach’s fault, and that’s fine -you go for it!- but he’s mostly at fault. 
 
In the 50 stupid years I’ve been following this team, JD is far and away the most competent executive they’ve had. Tannenbaum got them close to a championship, but those teams didn’t have the depth this roster does and that’s what eventually sunk them. Unfortunately, it’s a QB driven league and there are only about 20 or so good QBs in the league in any given year, and the Jets have pretty much lost that game of musical chairs since they traded Joe Namath away. The one thing this organization hasn’t tried is consistency. It’s always fire everyone and start over, and it never works. Ozzy ****ing Newsome took five or six years to have a winning season, and these Jets were probably worse than the Browns he took over. 

[bicketybam]

41 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

No, he's judged by how he's actually performed in his job.   His Job is to win Championships - he hasn't come remotely close to that.   In fact, over his tenure the team has one of the worst, if not the worst, record in the league.  There is nothing hindsight about it. 

You might like the guy and think maybe there's something there - but to say people that think he's been bad is misinformed and stupid  is beyond absurd.  By every accountable metric he's been an unmitigated disaster.

Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall and Sauce Gardner being on the roaster says he hasn't been an unmitigated disaster. What he gets dinged for the most was selecting Zach Wilson with the #2 overall pick in 2021. When you factor in how poorly Wilson played coupled with what the Jets could have gotten had they traded the #2 overall pick, it is probably one of the worst decisions in franchise history.

That said, I believe he's made some really good trades and draft picks that pull him out of the "unmitigated disaster" category. But selecting Wilson, in of itself, was definitely an unmitigated disaster. 

[FidelioJet]

28 minutes ago, slats said:

His #1 mistake was not sticking with Darnold his first year, and instead drafting a QB who was the 34th best QB out of 32 for two years before bringing in a starting caliber one. You would like to continue to argue that it’s not all Zach’s fault, and that’s fine -you go for it!- but he’s mostly at fault. 
 
In the 50 stupid years I’ve been following this team, JD is far and away the most competent executive they’ve had. Tannenbaum got them close to a championship, but those teams didn’t have the depth this roster does and that’s what eventually sunk them. Unfortunately, it’s a QB driven league and there are only about 20 or so good QBs in the league in any given year, and the Jets have pretty much lost that game of musical chairs since they traded Joe Namath away. The one thing this organization hasn’t tried is consistency. It’s always fire everyone and start over, and it never works. Ozzy ****ing Newsome took five or six years to have a winning season, and these Jets were probably worse than the Browns he took over. 

I can play that game too.

He had one good draft made possible by a very solid trade.  Beside that one trade/draft he's been comically awful.  Take  the Adams trade and Joe Douglas has been just as bad as all the other hacks that came through this franchise.  

 

[TBJ]

I read it on a t-shirt.

[FidelioJet]

13 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Garrett Wilson, Breece Hall and Sauce Gardner being on the roaster says he hasn't been an unmitigated disaster. What he gets dinged for the most was selecting Zach Wilson with the #2 overall pick in 2021. When you factor in how poorly Wilson played coupled with what the Jets could have gotten had they traded the #2 overall pick, it is probably one of the worst decisions in franchise history.

That said, I believe he's made some really good trades and draft picks that pull him out of the "unmitigated disaster" category. But selecting Wilson, in of itself, was definitely an unmitigated disaster. 

He had a good 24 hours in his 6 years.  I can agree with that.

[bicketybam]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

He had a good 24 hours in his 6 years.  I can agree with that.

He's been on the job for 5 years. How about we agree on that? 👍

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

He's been on the job for 5 years. How about we agree on that? 👍

Okay, so he's had one good day in 5 years.  Glad we agree.

[bicketybam]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Okay, so he's had one good day in 5 years.  Glad we agree.

You can work on Arron Rodgers actual age next 👍

[Bleedin Green]

3 hours ago, slats said:

That’s what JD does. The roster this year is solid up top and loaded with depth.

That has been the totally baseless claim for years, but was never once shown to be true, particularly on offense.

The unearned praise is either no more than people finding Joe to be cuddly, or having a very short attention span to only blame Saleh for JD's incompetence while he hides in his office all year refusing any accountability for his own failures, which alone makes him an absolute embarrassment of a so-called "leader".

The offense has been an unmitigated disaster, from purely a roster perspective, for the entirety of JD's time.  The only proven quantities they have on the unit during his tenure are one RB and one WR, despite excessive investments at both positions.  After all, who in their right mind drafts 6 RBs in 5 years?  Despite it being considered the quickest plug-and-play and low-cost position in today's NFL, to date he's only hit on 1.  Not to mention home-run FA signings like payouts to the washed up Gores and Cooks of the league in a failed attempt to cover his failed picks.  It's no better on the WR side, with the likes of Mims and Moore being highly drafted busts, while Lazard and Davis were failed signings paid big to be starters.  Let's not even get into the fact that even a brain-damaged ostrich would know better than to sign Cobb.

Despite continually massive investments, the OL has been a total train-wreck, with a continuous mix of draft busts and failed FA signings, yet even this year the supposed upgrades are entirely dependent on multiple players magically being healthier than they have been in many years.  I wouldn't hold my breath on that, but it will surely be used as another excuse for JD, as if it's not his fault that it continues to fail when he keeps investing in the injury prone and well past their prime.  After all, what could possibly go wrong with a new LT who last played a full season 9 years ago?

At TE, Conklin was one of JD's very few not completely disastrous failures for the offense in FA, but hardly a star, and just to get that much required him to try twice that year, with the laughable signing of Uzomah.  JD apologists may like to swoon over the young guys he's picked up at the position, but they have cumulatively done absolutely nothing despite getting many opportunities thanks in no small part to the incompetence at WR and a lack of depth at the position to ever compete with.

That of course leaves us at QB.  JD gets credit for one of the biggest all-time busts in NFL history and better yet, for structuring the position in such a way to repeatedly forcing that trash onto the field with a lack of viable alternatives, yet the other garbage at the position still consistently outperformed him.  The supposed great solution was wildly overpaying in a trade that the Packers needed to make and with no other team interested, to bring in a guy already proven to be on the downside of his dwindling career, in hopes he would magically cover up JD's top-to-bottom incompetence on the O.  Instead, the garbage approach led to a fifth consecutive year of failure on his watch, and yet that fault of his own is somehow crafted into an excuse for him by some.

This offense has minimal proven talent in recent years, and no depth.  You talk about him being evaluated compared to other GMs and the truth of the matter is, he is one of the very worst at the job in the league today.  Every other GM who has performed at all comparably to his level elsewhere at any point during his tenure have lost their jobs in a fraction of the time, while he gets only excuses and a 6th chance.  All of this while continually taking out loans against future years as he moved to a "win-now" approach that fails even bigger.  If comparing relative to Jets history, his arc is on par with Mike Maccagnan, who many here happily praised with Bowles was painted at fault for all MM's failures, which is basically what we're all watching a remake of right now.  The MM narrative changed from many only after he was fired, as the JD one surely will as well.  Although at least MM was able to put together one winning season when he broke the bank in trying to buy wins, which JD can't even manage despite his best efforts.  On the other hand, JD is still worlds behind the likes of Tanny and Bradway in Jets history, who are not exactly benchmarks for excellence at the job.

Then when all is said and done, the record further shows that JD also in fact quantitatively sucks at his job.  Yet even that comes in spite of Saleh having this team outperforming their talent, which is why he is in fact the right man until JD finally gets sent packing, which should be much sooner rather than later, unless this team miraculously finds themselves the fountain of youth needed to save their asses.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, slats said:

Ozzy ****ing Newsome took five or six years to have a winning season, and these Jets were probably worse than the Browns he took over. 

This has to be a joke, right?  Newsome made it to .500 in year 4, which JD has yet to even do, and then a ring in year 5.

JD is going into year 6 still unable to pump out a better record than the roster he inherited from Mac was able to give under Adam freakin' Gase.

[Bleedin Green]

To put this further, in order to compare Newsome to JD, Ozzy would have needed to draft Ryan Leaf and then trade a haul for a regressing Aikman rather than actually getting a ring.

[bicketybam]

24 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

To put this further, in order to compare Newsome to JD, Ozzy would have needed to draft Ryan Leaf and then trade a haul for a regressing Aikman rather than actually getting a ring.

Aikman?? The most TD passes he ever threw in a season was 23 😅 0 MVP's. 165/141 career TD/INT. You could have picked a better comparison, lol. The Ryan Leaf comparison is fair though.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, bicketybam said:

Aikman?? The most TD passes he ever threw in a season was 23 😅 0 MVP's. 165/141 career TD/INT. You could have picked a better comparison, lol. The Ryan Leaf comparison is fair though.

Fair, although the point was simply a HOF QB in the twilight of his career around late 90s/early 2000s, and Aikman was the first that sprung to mind.