Aaron Rodgers is sitting at the kids’ table because he’s got one championship. You don’t get to sit with Joe Montana and Tom Brady and multiple Super Bowl winners at the ‘Big Boy Table.’

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

This is absolutely a fair point.

The "how many championships did he win?" factor needs to be applied differently to quarterbacks of different eras like Rodgers, Marino, and Tarkenton.

Nothing wrong with that.  This is all subjective anyway.

Right. 
 

I’m in total agreement with the notion that QB is the most important position by far and that you almost definitely need a really good QB to win it all in today’s NFL. But it’s a big leap to go from there to the brain dead ring counting people do in these discussions. These guys all play across different eras in different situations. 
 

Could Marino have won a SB if he had the defenses Brady had from 2001-2004? If you took Terrell Davis and that GREAT OL away from Elway and gave them to Favre instead, does Elway still “beat” him in the SB?

 

[jvill 51]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

what is going on here? did you slip into a dark mode portal halfway through posting?

Copied and pasted from the scum chat clearly.

Vote DepressedJetsFan23

@Nolder

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, jvill 51 said:

Copied and pasted from the scum chat clearly.

Vote DepressedJetsFan23

@Nolder

nailed him!

[jvill 51]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

nailed him!

[DoubleDown]

9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Right. 
 

I’m in total agreement with the notion that QB is the most important position by far and that you almost definitely need a really good QB to win it all in today’s NFL. But it’s a big leap to go from there to the brain dead ring counting people do in these discussions. These guys all play across different eras in different situations. 
 

Could Marino have won a SB if he had the defenses Brady had from 2001-2004? If you took Terrell Davis and that GREAT OL away from Elway and gave them to Favre instead, does Elway still “beat” him in the SB?

 

Yeah, brain dead counting is definitely not what I'm advocating.  It's one of many factors, and it can't be applied the same way to quarterbacks of different eras.

Statistically, Rodgers is one of the best of all time.  The lack of multiple Superbowl wins and the largely disappointing playoff results in this modern era of football where quarterbacks are paramount drops him down a tier.

But it's not over yet.  He will be viewed differently if he wins a Superbowl with the Jets.

[greenwichjetfan]

21 hours ago, dbatesman said:

It's hilarious that people feel honor-bound to go to the mattresses for a guy who a.) has a postseason winning percentage that's not quite as good as Donovan McNabb's, and b.) has played a total of four snaps for this franchise

You've essentially become Joe W. Namath posting pictures of Jets fans are the bests everywhere.

I hate most of what Rodgers puts out in public or away from the field just as much as you probably do, but the guy is a Mt. Rushmore QB. Stink's opinion has nothing to do with anything, and anyone picking up the sword on behalf of Rodgers in this scenario is just wasting their time anyway, 

21 hours ago, T0mShane said:

c. Is (very likely) going to run for this hills of Malibu after this season, leaving the Jets with a bunch of dead cap charges and no QB. 

When Rodgers gives us our first winning season in 15 years and has us excited about Jets football in December and January, I better not see any joy from you. Not even the weird half lip thing you do when trying to pick up girls in Bridgeport at 1am. 

[slimjasi]

26 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

Yeah, brain dead counting is definitely not what I'm advocating.  It's one of many factors, and it can't be applied the same way to quarterbacks of different eras.

Statistically, Rodgers is one of the best of all time.  The lack of multiple Superbowl wins and the largely disappointing playoff results in this modern era of football where quarterbacks are paramount drops him down a tier.

But it's not over yet.  He will be viewed differently if he wins a Superbowl with the Jets.

The biggest knock on Rodgers is probably his poor NFC title game record:

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/aaron-rodgers-record-in-nfc-championship-games
 

By my count, in 3 of those games he was anywhere from good to very good statistically, but clearly not good enough to live up to his billing.

And I also always think about that loss to the Giants in 2011 after going 15-1. That was a bad one. He’s definitely had some playoff stinkers (although he’s also had some awesome performances, like the wild game against Dallas). It’s been a mixed bag, but I think this is where guys like Brady and Montana lap him. 

[slimjasi]

23 hours ago, dbatesman said:

a.) has a postseason winning percentage that's not quite as good as Donovan McNabb's

Just to expand on how meaningless this is in the context of QB debates:

McNabb has a higher postseason winning percentage than Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, and Brett Favre, among others. While we’re at it, so does Mark Sanchez.
 

  

 

[greenwichjetfan]

50 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

It’s been a mixed bag, but I think this is where guys like Brady and Montana lap him. 

Having watched all of Rodgers and Brady's playoff games in real-time, I felt like this was a controversial take when I first read it. Just did some research and it backs my claim.

I remember Rodgers playing very well in a lot of playoff games and putting his team in positions to win while the rest of the team and coaching consistently let him down.

Conversely, I remember a lot of games where Brady didn't play great but his team and his coaching allowed them to stay in the game enough for him to make a few clutch plays to win it. Brady also had top 10 defenses every single year that he was in the playoffs; Rodgers had top 10 defenses twice and won the SB in the lone year that he had a top 5 defense. 

You're right that it's a mixed bag - both of them are all time greats who have a lot of postseason games under their belts so obviously there's good and bad. I just disagree that Brady lapped him in terms of their individual play, and the below numbers on a per attempt or per completion basis bear that out. 

*I didn't include Montana in this because (1) I never saw him play as he was a bit before my time; (2) the game was entirely different back then - defenses and running games ruled the day, and (3) he played for essentially the innovator of NFL passing offenses from the 80's till now, and got to test drive the offense when the rest of the league didn't even know what they were looking at. 

[bicketybam]

13 hours ago, Warfish said:

And yet, so many feel compelled to do so anyway.

Is it defending *him* or countering an ignorant point?

You can hate the Rodgers trade. You can hate the guy Rodgers is outside of football. You can hate the football player Rodgers was in 2023 (all 4 plays of it.) But when someone starts claiming he isn't one of  the best of all time because of those points, it's idiocy. His stats speak for themselves so when people start saying he's isn't one of the best and all statistical signs points to that he was, it's easy to call bullsh*t. He even has a SB victory to his credit just like Trent Dilfer. Are they in the same level.

I hated Dan Marino but if he ever got traded to the Jets, I wouldn't start saying his career sucked. Come on, my guy. 

[nj meadowlands]

16 hours ago, bicketybam said:

As long as he doesn't confuse Coach Saleh with Coach McDermott we should be fine.

omg haha lol

[dbatesman]

3 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

You've essentially become Joe W. Namath posting pictures of Jets fans are the bests everywhere.

 

This is the meanest thing anyone has ever said to me here.

[greenwichjetfan]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

This is the meanest thing anyone has ever said to me here.

I’m honored!

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I’m honored!

I'm thinking of just leaning into it. "Was the Rodgers deal a misbegotten catastrophe that will cripple the franchise for half a decade? It's happening Jet fans!"

[greenwichjetfan]

1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

I'm thinking of just leaning into it. "Was the Rodgers deal a misbegotten catastrophe that will cripple the franchise for half a decade? It's happening Jet fans!"

You, Fredo and Beerfish make quite the big 3.

Ride the wave! You have about 3-4 good months left; by end of November when we’re in striking distance for the #1 seed, we’ll welcome you back to shore.

[nj meadowlands]

14 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I'm thinking of just leaning into it. "Was the Rodgers deal a misbegotten catastrophe that will cripple the franchise for half a decade? It's happening Jet fans!"

Half a decade?  We've done 14 years in the hole.  That time is nothing to me.

[Legend Killa7]

34 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Is it defending *him* or countering an ignorant point?

You can hate the Rodgers trade. You can hate the guy Rodgers is outside of football. You can hate the football player Rodgers was in 2023 (all 4 plays of it.) But when someone starts claiming he isn't one of  the best of all time because of those points, it's idiocy. His stats speak for themselves so when people start saying he's isn't one of the best and all statistical signs points to that he was, it's easy to call bullsh*t. He even has a SB victory to his credit just like Trent Dilfer. Are they in the same level.

I hated Dan Marino but if he ever got traded to the Jets, I wouldn't start saying his career sucked. Come on, my guy. 

I think your last sentence says it all:  if Marino was traded to the Jets everyone would be crapping on him as well.  idiots like schlerith wouldn't be saying these things about Rodgers if he was still a Packer IMHO.  Jets need to change the narrative big time.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, slimjasi said:

This is all true, and yet, has no bearing on the idiocy of ring counting as a means to rank QBs 

It’s a team sport but I think the question of “why didn’t Aaron Rodgers have more post season success” is a legitimate one. In particular in his MVP seasons of 2011, 2020 and 2021 Packers lost at home to teams they probably should have beaten.

[BigRy56]

When the biggest question about your career is how did you not win as many Superbowls as you did MVPs, you’re a pretty great player. Rodgers is an all-time great - figure top 10. Not sure why that’s controversial and that is purely based on his GB career

[bicketybam]

24 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It’s a team sport but I think the question of “why didn’t Aaron Rodgers have more post season success” is a legitimate one. In particular in his MVP seasons of 2011, 2020 and 2021 Packers lost at home to teams they probably should have beaten.

It's a team game, my guy. He's played well enough to win in the majority of his playoff appearances.

Prior to him joining the Jets, were you of the opinion that he wasn't an all time prolific passer? Or say prior to 2020 which is when people really starting hating him for non football reasons?

[bicketybam]

32 minutes ago, Legend Killa7 said:

I think your last sentence says it all:  if Marino was traded to the Jets everyone would be crapping on him as well.  idiots like schlerith wouldn't be saying these things about Rodgers if he was still a Packer IMHO.  Jets need to change the narrative big time.

Disagree. No one with a clue would crap on Marino's career had be been traded to the Jets. This isn't about Rodgers winning just one super bowl. We all know this. The hate is almost always about non football related issues.

[Nolder]

4 hours ago, jvill 51 said:

Copied and pasted from the scum chat clearly.

Vote DepressedJetsFan23

@Nolder

 

[freestater]

If Rodgers wins a championship with us here, he'll be the bestest qb of all time and I'll fight anybody who says different. 

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, freestater said:

If Rodgers wins a championship with us here, he'll be the bestest qb of all time and I'll fight anybody who says different. 

I agree with this.

I've seen people who think Burrow gets too much credit for taking the Bengals to the Super Bowl ("they didn't even win!") but I go the other direction. If you can take the Cincinnati Bengals (or the New York Jets, or the Cleveland Browns, etc.) to the Super Bowl you're special.

[Rich Thornburgh]

6 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

I mean he's not really wrong.

In the context of a "greatest quarterbacks of all time" conversation, Superbowl wins absolutely matter.  And Aaron Rodgers only having 1 is certainly a negative against him.  If he had multiple wins, he's probably in the top 5.  Instead, he's hovering somewhere around the #10 spot.

It matters but Schlereth is being a douche acting like it’s the end all be all.  His boy Elway didn’t win anything until he was 37 and had Terrell Davis who at the time was arguably the best player in football 

 

Schlereth can’t get clicks unless he’s trolling jets fans.  ESPN let him go right?  

 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

It’s a team sport but I think the question of “why didn’t Aaron Rodgers have more post season success” is a legitimate one. In particular in his MVP seasons of 2011, 2020 and 2021 Packers lost at home to teams they probably should have beaten.

I agree that it’s a legitimate question, but I think the question has to be answered with some semblance of nuance beyond “did he win the SB or not?”. The 2011 loss at home to the wildcard Giants was really bad. On the other hand, Rodgers had a 97 and 102 QB rating in the 2020 and 2021 NFC Title games, respectively.
 

It’s been a mixed bag - Rodgers has had some very good playoff performances and some stinkers - very similar to Peyton Manning (who happens to have a very similar playoff record). 

[slimjasi]

44 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I agree with this.

I've seen people who think Burrow gets too much credit for taking the Bengals to the Super Bowl ("they didn't even win!") but I go the other direction. If you can take the Cincinnati Bengals (or the New York Jets, or the Cleveland Browns, etc.) to the Super Bowl you're special.

Depends on how he plays - does Rodgers actually “take” the Jets to the SB or is he along for the ride?
 

I mentioned in my other post that Rogers has a very similar playoff resume to Peyton Manning. The big difference between them right now is that a washed up Manning got carried to a second SB ring by an elite defense in his last season. Let’s say that scenario plays out with Rodgers (we can only dream) - does that appreciably change his standing in your eyes? 

[UntouchableCrew]

14 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Depends on how he plays - does Rodgers actually “take” the Jets to the SB or is he along for the ride?
 

I mentioned in my other post that Rogers has a very similar playoff resume to Peyton Manning. The big difference between them right now is that a washed up Manning got carried to a second SB ring by an elite defense in his last season. Let’s say that scenario plays out with Rodgers (we can only dream) - does that appreciably change his standing in your eyes? 

I think winning a ring adds value even if you weren’t at your best, especially when (in the case of Manning) there were seasons where you were the MVP and “should” have won it but came up short. Like, for all the greatness of his ‘05, ‘09 and ‘13 seasons failing in big spots he was due a “lucky” run in 2015.

The dirty little secret is that between Manning, Mahomes, Brady and Rodgers none of them ever actually won a ring without a good defense and all had some of their best offensive seasons end in failure.

[UntouchableCrew]

22 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I agree that it’s a legitimate question, but I think the question has to be answered with some semblance of nuance beyond “did he win the SB or not?”. The 2011 loss at home to the wildcard Giants was really bad. On the other hand, Rodgers had a 97 and 102 QB rating in the 2020 and 2021 NFC Title games, respectively.
 

It’s been a mixed bag - Rodgers has had some very good playoff performances and some stinkers - very similar to Peyton Manning (who happens to have a very similar playoff record). 

I agree he wasn’t the reason they lost the 2020-21 game to the Bucs, but in a close game Brady was better.

2021-22 game against the 9ers he came up small. Packers offense did nothing.

[Green Ghost]

On 7/11/2024 at 10:26 AM, Trotter said:

Cmon - that's a bit rough no? He is Dan Marino - gotta be Filet O Fish or the extremely underrated McRib.

I never figured you for the kind of guy who would go to McDonald’s for a fish sandwich, Trot.

[bicketybam]

3 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I never figured you for the kind of guy who would go to McDonald’s for a fish sandwich, Trot.

I don't think even @The Crusher would eat a McDonald's fish sandwich 🤮

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

I don't think even @The Crusher would eat a McDonald's fish sandwich 🤮

Nope. Not in the last 30 years, but there was a time. Coffee only. Rare breakfast sammich if traveling. I like Wendy’s!! It’s hot! It’s juicy! What’s not to like? 

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I agree he wasn’t the reason they lost the 2020-21 game to the Bucs, but in a close game Brady was better.

2021-22 game against the 9ers he came up small. Packers offense did nothing.

Agree Brady was better in that game and is the GOAT. 49er game I honestly don’t remember that well other than that the Pack got blown out. 

[Trotter]

26 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

I never figured you for the kind of guy who would go to McDonald’s for a fish sandwich, Trot.

And you would be correct

never had one and never will

i used it as an example cause a bunch of us would watch the 1 o’clock and 4 o’clock games religiously at my friends house in vailsburg

halftime of tbe early game we go to mcd’s on 18th ave in Newark and o r of my buddies orders 2 filet o fish - every damn week

[Sperm Edwards]

22 hours ago, Warfish said:

Thank god Rodgers has Jets fans to defend his e-honor from sports commentators…

That’s Saint Rodgers, you benighted heathen.