My take on Joe Douglas, and his future with the Jets.

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, nyjets1969 said:

Good coaches find ways to win look at Parcells had he went to Ray Lucas sooner they might made the playoffs Belichick won with Cassel Shula used Scott Mitchell good coaches find ways to win.

Ray Lucas cost us the Lions game.  And in 98 Parcells didn’t put Lucas in, went with Mirer and missed the playoffs.  Belichich won with Castle QBing a SB team.  Scott Mitchell played well at times with the Lions.   He also took over a 11-5 Fish team and went 9-7.  

I asked a question, who that was available would have won with ZW at QB, add in the injuries to the OL?  No one was winning with Zach.  We sit here with 20 pages of posts calling him a loser, calling him historically bad and then moaning that our CS couldn't win with him.  

After all is said and done that’s three examples that really don’t fit over the course of 32 years

[Barton]

2 hours ago, JKlecko said:

I disagree that JD goes for high ceiling, low floor.  That's too simplistic, and is inaccutate.  Becton didn't have a low floor as a prospect.  He was considered safe, but he didn't turn out that way.  Maybe Zach was considered to have a low floor.  Neither Sauce nor Garrett Wilson were considered to have low floors.  Fashanu was not considered to have a low floor.  McDonald probably had a low floor.  That makes only 2 out of 6 1st round picks that had low floors.

Becton barely passed block in college. He was not a safe pick. Olu, yes. 

[Alka]

4 hours ago, JKlecko said:

I disagree with the notion that the Jets are in the 5th best place in terms of salary cap for 2025. It may look that way, but that's deceiving because it doesn't take into consideration that the Jets have 5 core players that need to be extended: G. Wilson, Sauce, JJ, Breece and MC II, nor does it take into consideration that they're going to have 19 UFAs and RFAs.

These players will be FAs in 2025 ( 10 starters, and 7 top backups).

Hassan Reddick  - starting Edge (if he ever shows up and plays)

Mike Williams - #2 WR (who will replace him?)

T. Smith - starting LT (thankfully, can be replaced by Fashanu)

M. Moses - starting RT (who will replace him?)

DJ Reed  - starting 2nd CB (who thankfully can be replaced by one of JBC and Stiggers)

MC II - starting slot CB and one of the best slot CBs in the NFL

Tony Adams - starting S (RFA)

Tyler Conklin  - starting TE (who will replace him?)

Javon Kinlaw (starting NT) hopefully replaced by Taylor or a draft pick)

Chuck Clark - starting S (who will replace him?)

Solomon Thomas (top backup for Q) (who will replace him?)

Ashtyn Davis (key STer and top backup at S - he wants to start)

Jamien Sherwood - top backup for Moselely (he probably wants to start somewhere)

Brandon Echols - top CB backup and STer (he probably wants to start somewhere)

Wes Schweitzer - top IOL backup

Takk McKinley - backup Edge who could be a key player this season

Xavier Newman-Johnson - backup IOL (RFA)

Leki Fotu (backup NT)

Malik Taylor - may have been the #6 WR on the roster this season

Kenny Yeboah - good STer and #3 TE

Chazz Surratt - Backup LB and good STer (RFA)

Irvin Charles  - key STer (RFA)

Isaiah Oliver - backup S

 

Why hasn't MC II already been extended?  Has Woody forbidden it due to being unsure about JD's future, or is this another JD mistake, and MC II will wind up walking?

 

A lot of good points.  We will know a lot more after the season.  The core players must be resigned, but outside of them, we will just have to see how it all plays out.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, slats said:

My recollection is a lot different. Yes, Adams was a star player at what he did, which really wasn’t to play the safety position in a classic way. He was a very successful, undersized pass rusher who met his inevitable end; getting hurt. 
 
At the time he was trying to get traded, he was giving the Jets the finger in Tweets and begging for the Cowboys to trade for him. He made himself so toxic that a majority of fans wanted him off the team. I wanted him traded, but I didn’t think he was worth more than maybe a second rounder plus on the market, tops. Getting two first round picks, a third round pick, and some forgettable safety for Jamal Adams was a helluva deal in real time, and an absolute heist in retrospect. 

The Seahawks have won a LOT more than Jets over past + decade. So I think it’s silly from a Jets prospective to criticize a team that has been run MUCH better than the jets. I forget what it’s like to be a jets fan in a position where we may look to trade draft picks for a missing piece. Hopefully that this yr FINALLY will be that yr. I agree it worked out for jets, Seahawks were very good and expected those picks to be late firsts. But injuries plagued them, and Russel Wilson took a dive. Talk about a fleece, what they got from Denver for him is all time robbery lol.

  Hopefully the Reddick trade doesn’t end up as another wasted pick for jets. I can’t wait for football to start because we all are talking about past nonsense too much ha. 

[fltflo]

The 2024 season is JD’s sixth, and final under his current contract, season.

You are correct sir, my bad. Getting old sucks.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JKlecko]

4 hours ago, Alka said:

Let's not get carried away!  Okay!  He was wrong with this thinking, and I agree with you.  But, things did work out, and to me, that is the bottom line.

But they worked out by luck, not skill, not by plan or design.  Just as easily, things could have gone the other way.  Then we wouldn't have Fashanu or Corley, and God only knows how many draft picks the Jets wouldn't have next year when they need them to replace players they lose in FA.  It could have worked out disastrously for the Jets.  On top of that, drafting Nabers or Odunze could have alienated Wilson and he could have wound up demanding a trade following this season.

The next time he has a hair-brained idea, it could blow up in the Jets' faces and not work out.

[T0mShane]

7 hours ago, JKlecko said:

It could have worked out disastrously for the Jets.  On top of that, drafting Nabers or Odunze could have alienated Wilson and he could have wound up demanding a trade following this season.

[T0mShane]

And another thing, he put together a playoff roster that finished in fourth place and what if Rome Odunze hurt Garrett Wilson’s feelings and that’s why using the 11 pick on the backup tackle was a masterstroke and also a 26-56 record seems bad but he had to spend five years digging out from the $8 million that Maccagnan gave to LeVeon Bell and I mean sure he turned around and gave $7 million to Dalvin Cook but

 

[Jetsfan80]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s actually good we won those meaningless late season games.  After all, having 2 awesome WRs at the same time is illegal, Tom. 

(Unless of course you’re the Eagles, Dolphins, 49ers, Bengals, Texans, Bears or Rams)

[rangerous]

15 hours ago, JKlecko said:

I never said that defensive-minded HCs can't succeed.  The difference between those guys were that they were smart enough to know that they needed offense, and the NFL was different then.  We're in a new era in the NFL, the era of the QB and offense.  We had one of the top 2 Ds in the NFL last year, that may have prevented the Jets from losing even more games, but it didn't help them win more than 7 games out of a 17 game schedule.  Defensive coaches want to focus on their D, and they want the GM to focus on D.  The Jets have gone the former defensive coach route with Herm, Mangini, Rex, Bowles, and now Saleh.  It's time to try something different.  No more failed/awful former offensive coaches like Kotite and Gase.  They've hired first-time head coaches who were defensive coaches since Parcells (including Groh).  Gase was the only former offensive coach during that span.  There are good young offensive minds out there.  The Jets need a 21st century offense, not a 20th century offense.  They need someone who sets the trends, not follows the pack.  They need someone who will be true to their name and their history, that of a high-flying, aggressive aerial attack.  No first-time defensive coach is going to do that.  If Ulbrich did that, he would be the first and an anomaly.  If he promised to do that, I would give him a chance with the understanding that if he were lying or changed his mind and went into his defensive, conservative shell that he would be fired during the season.  I don't think he'd accept the job under those circumstances.

okay.  but remember shula had a pretty good offense when he had marino at qb.  landry had a really good offense in dallas.  let's not forget the bellichicken when he had brady throwing to moss. and, honestly, i don't think these offensive gurus are so mysterious. teams line up and try to beat their opponent.  mcdaniel may be thought of as a great offensive mind but he has those two whippets in tyreek and waddle and a qb who can throw 10 yards accurately.  i don't think his play designs are that new.  the key is to get a coach who knows the whole game not just one aspect.

[JiFtheOracle]

8 hours ago, JKlecko said:

On top of that, drafting Nabers or Odunze could have alienated Wilson and he could have wound up demanding a trade following this season.

Not very high on the prospects of Malachi Corley, I guess?

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It’s actually good we won those meaningless late season games.  After all, having 2 awesome WRs at the same time is illegal, Tom. 

(Unless of course you’re the Eagles, Dolphins, 49ers, Bengals, Texans, Bears or Rams)

Garrett Wilson played on an Ohio State team where the entire receiver depth chart was eventual first round picks but yes he’d fall to pieces if Douglas made him share targets with anyone better than Xavier Gipson

[Claymation]

35 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

And another thing, he put together a playoff roster that finished in fourth place and what if Rome Odunze hurt Garrett Wilson’s feelings and that’s why using the 11 pick on the backup tackle was a masterstroke and also a 26-56 record seems bad but he had to spend five years digging out from the $8 million that Maccagnan gave to LeVeon Bell and I mean sure he turned around and gave $7 million to Dalvin Cook but

 

[Claymation]

34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It’s actually good we won those meaningless late season games.  After all, having 2 awesome WRs at the same time is illegal, Tom. 

(Unless of course you’re the Eagles, Dolphins, 49ers, Bengals, Texans, Bears or Rams)

Is Mike Williams just a JAG now?

[Dunnie]

Garrett Wilson played on an Ohio State team where the entire receiver depth chart was eventual first round picks but yes he’d fall to pieces if Douglas made him share targets with anyone better than Xavier Gipson

Exactly ... Out of the entire roster .. I can't think of anyone that could handle that kind of situation better than GW... That guy is solid through and through. So lucky to have him.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[RedBeardedSavage]

34 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

And another thing, he put together a playoff roster that finished in fourth place and what if Rome Odunze hurt Garrett Wilson’s feelings and that’s why using the 11 pick on the backup tackle was a masterstroke and also a 26-56 record seems bad but he had to spend five years digging out from the $8 million that Maccagnan gave to LeVeon Bell and I mean sure he turned around and gave $7 million to Dalvin Cook but

 

Not a 100% sure what’s going on here…

But damn, 10/10 for whatever that sad anthropomorphized pretzel means - is it a Kevin delusion/dream-sequence/unreliable-narrator reference?

Is it just an exasperated sourdough sadly replying to Jetnation posts? 

Whatever it is, it’s glorious. 

[GKnight83]

On 8/30/2024 at 8:28 AM, Claymation said:

I don't foresee JD going the draft route with a QB again and giving him the keys of the castle. I see them grabbing a veteran starting QB to take the reigns from Aaron. Just my Humble opinion.

I can see that happening at this time.  When JT is ready to join the team we should revisit this.

Certainly see a Vet QB (and it could still be TT) until they see how JT recovers.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

And another thing, he put together a playoff roster that finished in fourth place and what if Rome Odunze hurt Garrett Wilson’s feelings and that’s why using the 11 pick on the backup tackle was a masterstroke and also a 26-56 record seems bad but he had to spend five years digging out from the $8 million that Maccagnan gave to LeVeon Bell and I mean sure he turned around and gave $7 million to Dalvin Cook but

 

I don't know why people keep bringing Maccagnan into this. Maccagnan drafted the best player on the current roster and got the best season of quarterback play they've had in five decades for a sixth round pick. Joe Douglas traded for a guy who won't show up. The relevant frame of reference is not other awful Jets GMs. It's the 1980s Buccaneers.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Claymation said:

Is Mike Williams just a JAG now?

He’s not Brandon Aiyuk, Tee Higgins, Devonta Smilth, Jaylen Waddle, Cooper Kupp or Keenan Allen if that’s the list you want Mike Williams to belong to.  Williams is essentially on a 1-year “show me” deal here whereas Aiyuk just signed a $30M per year deal over 4.  These are not remotely comparable WRs.  

Being in position to draft Odunze and then passing on the chance to do so so as not to piss off Garrett Wilson (the idea that started this conversation) is preposterous.

[TuscanyTile2]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

And another thing, he put together a playoff roster that finished in fourth place and what if Rome Odunze hurt Garrett Wilson’s feelings and that’s why using the 11 pick on the backup tackle was a masterstroke and also a 26-56 record seems bad but he had to spend five years digging out from the $8 million that Maccagnan gave to LeVeon Bell and I mean sure he turned around and gave $7 million to Dalvin Cook but

@kevinc855

[OilfieldJet]

16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This team is absolutely loaded and it's really tough to argue with what Joe has put together.  This is the best opening day Roster I can really remember, certainly in this century.

But, they haven't won.

Question becomes - what if Rodgers gets hurt again, Tyron Smith goes down, Mike Williams is shot and AVT has another season ender, this team wins 9 games and misses the playoffs.

Is that on JD?  Is the risk he's taken counting on players like this on him or the nature of the sport? 

Do you still stick with Joe?

 

Playoffs or the staff goes. 6 strikes and you are out.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

I don't know why people keep bringing Maccagnan into this. Maccagnan drafted the best player on the current roster and got the best season of quarterback play they've had in five decades for a sixth round pick. Joe Douglas traded for a guy who won't show up. The relevant frame of reference is not other awful Jets GMs. It's the 1980s Buccaneers.

Bring back Big Mac!!!!

[bicketybam]

5 minutes ago, JiFtheOracle said:

Bring back Big Mac!!!!

Is that the guy that passed on Mahomes and Watson because <checks notes> he drafted Hackenberg the year prior?

[JKlecko]

4 hours ago, rangerous said:

okay.  but remember shula had a pretty good offense when he had marino at qb.  landry had a really good offense in dallas.  let's not forget the bellichicken when he had brady throwing to moss. and, honestly, i don't think these offensive gurus are so mysterious. teams line up and try to beat their opponent.  mcdaniel may be thought of as a great offensive mind but he has those two whippets in tyreek and waddle and a qb who can throw 10 yards accurately.  i don't think his play designs are that new.  the key is to get a coach who knows the whole game not just one aspect.

Yes he did, but Shula wasn't a rookie HC.  He had been HC of the Baltimore Colts and I think won some championships with them, and he was beaten by Joe Namath and the Jets in the SB, and he learned that one needed a great QB.

If the Dolphins had a former DC as HC, they very likely wouldn't have those two whippets in Hill and Waddle.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

1 hour ago, JKlecko said:

Yes he did, but Shula wasn't a rookie HC.  He had been HC of the Baltimore Colts and I think won some championships with them, and he was beaten by Joe Namath and the Jets in the SB, and he learned that one needed a great QB.

If the Dolphins had a former DC as HC, they very likely wouldn't have those two whippets in Hill and Waddle.

Unpopular take: calling Shula a great coach is like calling Orville Wright a fighter pilot.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, JKlecko said:

Yes he did, but Shula wasn't a rookie HC.  He had been HC of the Baltimore Colts and I think won some championships with them, and he was beaten by Joe Namath and the Jets in the SB, and he learned that one needed a great QB.

If the Dolphins had a former DC as HC, they very likely wouldn't have those two whippets in Hill and Waddle.

I think the bigger key is to not hire so many newbie coaches at once. The jets hired a newbie head coach, offensive coach and defensive coach at the same time.  Luckily Ulbrich has panned out.

[Claymation]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He’s not Brandon Aiyuk, Tee Higgins, Devonta Smilth, Jaylen Waddle, Cooper Kupp or Keenan Allen if that’s the list you want Mike Williams to belong to.  Williams is essentially on a 1-year “show me” deal here whereas Aiyuk just signed a $30M per year deal over 4.  These are not remotely comparable WRs.  

Being in position to draft Odunze and then passing on the chance to do so so as not to piss off Garrett Wilson (the idea that started this conversation) is preposterous.

Is Mike Williams a JAG?

 

[Claymation]

And for the record I didn’t say, or even hinted at it.

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Is Mike Williams a JAG?

 

 

10 minutes ago, Claymation said:

And for the record I didn’t say, or even hinted at it.

Well you responded to a post about having 2 awesome WRs with “what about Mike Williams”, so….

He’s not a JAG but he’s also not on the level of those WRs (nor is he on the level of Odunze since Odunze is an elite prospect under team control for up to 5 years) and thus seemed to me to be irrelevant to the topic at hand.

He’s definitely CLOSER to JAG level than Aiyuk/DeVonta/Odunze level seeing as, like I said, we signed him to  basically a 1-year show me deal, which is what teams tend to do when they sign players who are JAGy or a bit better.

Again, avoiding drafting an Odunze because we have Garrett Wilson and Mike Williams already on the roster would be preposterous and anyone arguing otherwise should be roundly laughed at.  

[FidelioJet]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He’s not Brandon Aiyuk, Tee Higgins, Devonta Smilth, Jaylen Waddle, Cooper Kupp or Keenan Allen if that’s the list you want Mike Williams to belong to.  Williams is essentially on a 1-year “show me” deal here whereas Aiyuk just signed a $30M per year deal over 4.  These are not remotely comparable WRs.  

Being in position to draft Odunze and then passing on the chance to do so so as not to piss off Garrett Wilson (the idea that started this conversation) is preposterous.

Talent wise Mike Williams is a #1 level WR (not a top 10 guy but still a legitimate play maker - probably one of the best #2's in the league) and an amazing compliment to Wilson.

He's not getting paid because of his recent injury history not his skill set.

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Well you responded to a post about having 2 awesome WRs with “what about Mike Williams”, so….

He’s not a JAG but he’s also not on the level of those WRs (nor is he on the level of Odunze since Odunze is an elite prospect under team control for up to 5 years) and thus seemed to me to be irrelevant to the topic at hand.

He’s definitely CLOSER to JAG level than Aiyuk/DeVonta/Odunze level seeing as, like I said, we signed him to  basically a 1-year show me deal, which is what teams tend to do when they sign players who are JAGy or a bit better.

Again, avoiding drafting an Odunze because we have Garrett Wilson and Mike Williams already on the roster would be preposterous and anyone arguing otherwise should be roundly laughed at.  

Again I didn’t say it.

How many JAGs have multiple 1000 yard seasons?

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Again I didn’t say it.

How many JAGs have multiple 1000 yard seasons?

Bruh.

[Alka]

20 hours ago, JKlecko said:

But they worked out by luck, not skill, not by plan or design.  Just as easily, things could have gone the other way.  Then we wouldn't have Fashanu or Corley, and God only knows how many draft picks the Jets wouldn't have next year when they need them to replace players they lose in FA.  It could have worked out disastrously for the Jets.  On top of that, drafting Nabers or Odunze could have alienated Wilson and he could have wound up demanding a trade following this season.

The next time he has a hair-brained idea, it could blow up in the Jets' faces and not work out.

I agree with most of what you say, but not the part about alienating Wilson.  Great players don't run and hide when there are other great players on the field with them.  Great players want to win, and any player that can help accomplish the end goal, then they are happy.  Wilson is a great player, and my feeling is that things would have worked out fine if Nabers or Odunze was on the team.  

By the way, I see your account name is JKlecko.  Joe Klecko was my favorite Jet of all time, next to Joe Namath.  I met Klecko in a breakfast restaurant one day a few years ago.  I was amazed that we are both the same height, and he did not have muscles bulging out like he did when he played.  He was one tough SOB, and I loved the guy.

[JKlecko]

10 minutes ago, Alka said:

I agree with most of what you say, but not the part about alienating Wilson.  Great players don't run and hide when there are other great players on the field with them.  Great players want to win, and any player that can help accomplish the end goal, then they are happy.  Wilson is a great player, and my feeling is that things would have worked out fine if Nabers or Odunze was on the team.  

By the way, I see your account name is JKlecko.  Joe Klecko was my favorite Jet of all time, next to Joe Namath.  I met Klecko in a breakfast restaurant one day a few years ago.  I was amazed that we are both the same height, and he did not have muscles bulging out like he did when he played.  He was one tough SOB, and I loved the guy.

I envy your meeting Joe Klecko.  After Namath, he was my favorite Jet as well.

With regards to Wilson, yes he wants to win, but he also wants to be great and to get paid.  If the Jets had added Nabers, Wilson's opportunities could have been cut by 30-40%.  He's had to suffer with crap QBs the last two years and finally gets a chance to put up big numbers with Rodgers this year.  He's also very competitive. I know it would frustrate and probably piss me off, if I had had to play with crap QBs the first two seasons of my career, and didn't have nearly as great numbers as I could have.  Then I finally get the chance to rack up big numbers with a future HOF QB, and they draft another #1 WR that's going to take opportunities away from me, and maybe money out of my pocket?  I don't think Wilson was bothered by adding Corley, and wouldn't have been bothered by adding a WR in the 2nd round if the Jets had a 2nd round pick, but taking another WR in the top 10, that's an entirely different matter. But even if I'm wrong and it wouldn't have bothered Wilson, the rest would have been bad enough, and the Jets don't need him to make any more dumb decisions like that.

[JKlecko]

6 hours ago, rangerous said:

I think the bigger key is to not hire so many newbie coaches at once. The jets hired a newbie head coach, offensive coach and defensive coach at the same time.  Luckily Ulbrich has panned out.

That is an issue as well.  But if you know you're going to be drafting and trying to develop a young QB, at a minimum, you darn well better hire an experienced OC and QB Coach if at all possible, and imo it would be preferable to hire a former OC as HC if there was a topnotch candidate available that fit that mold.  If not, then of course one would have to hire the next best candidate available, regardless of which side of the ball he had coached.