Antonio Pierce says Raiders players made "business decisions" in loss and team will be making their own as they move forward....DeVante?

[Integrity28]

4 hours ago, Darnold's Forehead said:

4 replies in and you have yet to offer anything of substance.  Yawn.

“Multiple factors in a team sport.” Yeah, no sh!t, Sherlock.

A head coach telling the media that the team fell flat because some of his players are not trying does not allude to multiple factors.  It is one factor -  the coach scapegoating his players.

It’s a poor excuse.  That’s it.  Simplistic.

Yeah, so I’m not even sure you know what you’re arguing for at this point. Seems like an overreaction to me calling that initial post simplistic. Gotta be, right? Since you’re trying the call back.

Anyway, your take is sense. Sucks that no amount of harsh replies is changing that. 

[Gaffneycatch81]

2 hours ago, funaz said:

 

I disagree big time. We don’t need anymore defense. I don’t care if we have a top 15 or a top 3 defense.

What we NEED is a top offense. We have the QB, let’s surround him with as many weapons as possible.


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Seriously? If the defense could go from a rank in the 11-15 range to top 3, you don’t think that’s a big deal? I’m not saying Reddick would do that — but IF that is what is impact would be, it would only bolster my belief that he’s more important to this team than bringing in another star receiver. Like I said, I’d like to have both. But I think we’ve got the weapons to be very good on offense without him, and might not have the weapons on the D-line to be very good without Reddick. I respect your view that O is more important than D, but in this case, I think the difference in the upgrade and the impact would be substantial. JMO.

[slimjasi]

Raiders considering benching Minshew? 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41403944/las-vegas-raiders-stiill-pondering-quarterback-change

 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Sperm, I always make my business decisions by mailing them in. Sometimes email.

Yeah, I didn't have you pegged for snapping them in.

[Jetsfan80]

[Larz]

They already had a team meeting and had an airing of the grievances?

yikes lol 

[Maynard13]

On 9/22/2024 at 11:43 PM, nycdan said:

I'm not sure I want to see Adams come in.  Yes, he's a shiny weapon but it will probably alienate GW even more than he seems to be and that's not a great thing for the team long term.

Was thinking the same. Especially since Rodgers has reignited a flame under Lizard's butt and he is the go to guy at this point of the season.  Then again, Lizard is getting the ball more often since defenses are trying to take away GW in the passing game.  But how many guys can you have to spread the ball around to?  If Davante is traded to Jets you'd have Lizard, GW, Davante, Mike Williams. Plus you throw in Conklin and Corley.  A 4 wide set of Davante/Williams/Lizard/GW would be really scary for a defense to cover.  And Davante would probably take the pressure off of GW.  Interesting option.

[Mr. Rogers]

I'm not too worried about Wilson being offended by Adams coming in. 

As best I can tell, Garrett just wants to win. Winning fixes most everything. Davante will help that happen.

Considering he's nearly a decade younger, he'll also know full well davante is just a rental, not his franchise replacement. The real question is just whether the raiders will offer him at a reasonable price, and how the jets will handle those expensive last couple years of his contract. They may want to iron out a contract revision prior to a trade.... This time...

[Sperm Edwards]

I'd be pretty surprised if they bring Adams in here.

• Wilson is the obvious #1
• Williams should continue to get better (even if not what he once was, it'll be plenty enough)
• Lazard has been...dare I say, a good football player this year
• Conklin isn't terribly exciting, but he's an outlet when Rodgers wants him to be and he doesn't butterfingers his targets.
• Breece... no comment needed (and they're even surprisingly throwing to Adams a few times per game now)

It's not that Adams isn't any type of upgrade so much as shrugging off if he's truly necessary. There are only so many passes to go around, and what a top veteran QB is supposed to bring is you don't need 2-3 #1 type WRs on the team as though there's a scrub QB running the offense.

Because Rodgers is such an x-factor in that he's seemed to hold so much weight with the FO, I wouldn't rule it out, but it'd be hard to see them trading away any more high/high-ish picks for another short-term (possibly less than one year) rental.

[funaz]

I'd be pretty surprised if they bring Adams in here.

• Wilson is the obvious #1
• Williams should continue to get better (even if not what he once was, it'll be plenty enough)
• Lazard has been...dare I say, a good football player this year
• Conklin isn't terribly exciting, but he's an outlet when Rodgers wants him to be and he doesn't butterfingers his targets.
• Breece... no comment needed (and they're even surprisingly throwing to Adams a few times per game now)

It's not that Adams isn't any type of upgrade so much as shrugging off if he's truly necessary. There are only so many passes to go around, and what a top veteran QB is supposed to bring is you don't need 2-3 #1 type WRs on the team as though there's a scrub QB running the offense.
Because Rodgers is such an x-factor in that he's seemed to hold so much weight with the FO, I wouldn't rule it out, but it'd be hard to see them trading away any more high/high-ish picks for another short-term (possibly less than one year) rental.

I don’t think Wilson is a #1.

He’s more of a Higgins than a chase.

At least at this point


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[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, funaz said:

I don’t think Wilson is a #1.

He’s more of a Higgins than a chase.

At least at this point


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Meh, he is quite clearly the team's #1 WR, and anyone who can average 1100 yards on the receiving end of Zach ****ing Wilson is deservedly in the discussion of being a #1 WR. In his first 2+ seasons here he's had 6 different QBs (mostly awful) and 3 different WRCs (firing each of the first two after just one season apiece). 

Look at AJ Brown with Tennessee and then with Philadelphia. Keenan Allen was a WR1 but he wasn't Chase either. Diggs wasn't Diggs until his 6th season. Davante Adams first walked onto an NFL field with prime Aaron Rodgers in at QB, but only first eclipsed 1000 yards in his 5th season. Amari Cooper's #s weren't decidedly better than Wilson's in his first 3 seasons despite having a decidedly better QB as well. Plenty more examples. 

Not every WR1 puts up top-3 WR numbers like Chase or Jefferson right out of college, nor even at their very best for that matter. Wilson's not Chase or Jefferson or Lamb, but he's a WR1 even if he still has some carelessness to clean up.

Worth noting the past couple seasons Lamb has averaged >90 yards/game with Prescott in at QB, but closer to 65 yards/game when Cooper Rush takes most or all the QB snaps. Neither Hill & Waddle haven't even been putting up solid WR3 numbers since Tua got knocked out. This stuff is hardly coincidental. 

He's had just a few games with Rodgers, who's has attempted just 86 passes in these first 3 games coming back, and the first two were visibly played pretty conservatively. As the attempts consistently are around the 35/game range Wilson's numbers will be there, even if they won't be every single week.

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 9/23/2024 at 4:26 PM, slimjasi said:

Raiders considering benching Minshew? 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41403944/las-vegas-raiders-stiill-pondering-quarterback-change

 

They really need to

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, funaz said:

I don’t think Wilson is a #1.

He’s more of a Higgins than a chase.

At least at this point


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True #1’s can regularly beat double teams and shake top corners.  Wilson is still a great player and maybe he goes on to do that this season but I’ve been a little disappointed so far

[Dunnie]

True #1’s can regularly beat double teams and shake top corners.  Wilson is still a great player and maybe he goes on to do that this season but I’ve been a little disappointed so far

I'm not really disappointed .. typically number 1 guys are a little bigger than Garrett ... He's a great player.

Kind of like Flipper Andersen to Henry Ellard. Both guys made each other better ... But there was always a clear separation between them in terms of being a No. 1 and No. 2.

I am hoping Mike Williams can elevate Wilson's game further.

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[FidelioJet]

9 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

True #1’s can regularly beat double teams and shake top corners.  Wilson is still a great player and maybe he goes on to do that this season but I’ve been a little disappointed so far

The opportunities have been there, Rodgers and Adams seem to be a bit off with timing - just last week I count three big plays where a ball went to Wilson and the pass wasn't quite right (not a bad thing - tells me miscommunication) That type of stuff will get cleaned-up and GW will start to blow up.

[Bobby816]

14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'd be pretty surprised if they bring Adams in here.

• Wilson is the obvious #1
• Williams should continue to get better (even if not what he once was, it'll be plenty enough)
• Lazard has been...dare I say, a good football player this year
• Conklin isn't terribly exciting, but he's an outlet when Rodgers wants him to be and he doesn't butterfingers his targets.
• Breece... no comment needed (and they're even surprisingly throwing to Adams a few times per game now)

It's not that Adams isn't any type of upgrade so much as shrugging off if he's truly necessary. There are only so many passes to go around, and what a top veteran QB is supposed to bring is you don't need 2-3 #1 type WRs on the team as though there's a scrub QB running the offense.

Because Rodgers is such an x-factor in that he's seemed to hold so much weight with the FO, I wouldn't rule it out, but it'd be hard to see them trading away any more high/high-ish picks for another short-term (possibly less than one year) rental.

I don't think we need him either. But think of the passing game we could have with him. Defensive secondaries can't really double team more than 1 guy. So defenses would have to choose who they want to leave 1 on 1 GW or Adams. Leaving the other and MW 1 on 1 which is a nightmare for defenses. Especially when you can run the ball too.

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh, he is quite clearly the team's #1 WR, and anyone who can average 1100 yards on the receiving end of Zach ****ing Wilson is deservedly in the discussion of being a #1 WR. In his first 2+ seasons here he's had 6 different QBs (mostly awful) and 3 different WRCs (firing each of the first two after just one season apiece). 

Look at AJ Brown with Tennessee and then with Philadelphia. Keenan Allen was a WR1 but he wasn't Chase either. Diggs wasn't Diggs until his 6th season. Davante Adams first walked onto an NFL field with prime Aaron Rodgers in at QB, but only first eclipsed 1000 yards in his 5th season. Amari Cooper's #s weren't decidedly better than Wilson's in his first 3 seasons despite having a decidedly better QB as well. Plenty more examples. 

Not every WR1 puts up top-3 WR numbers like Chase or Jefferson right out of college, nor even at their very best for that matter. Wilson's not Chase or Jefferson or Lamb, but he's a WR1 even if he still has some carelessness to clean up.

Worth noting the past couple seasons Lamb has averaged >90 yards/game with Prescott in at QB, but closer to 65 yards/game when Cooper Rush takes most or all the QB snaps. Neither Hill & Waddle haven't even been putting up solid WR3 numbers since Tua got knocked out. This stuff is hardly coincidental. 

He's had just a few games with Rodgers, who's has attempted just 86 passes in these first 3 games coming back, and the first two were visibly played pretty conservatively. As the attempts consistently are around the 35/game range Wilson's numbers will be there, even if they won't be every single week.

What’s wrong with having a 1a/1b situation for a year or 2 to maximize Rodgers’ time here?  It’s not illegal to have 2 elite WRs on the field at the same time.  And in so doing we’d be squeezing the last bit of juice out of both Rodgers and Adams while still recognizing Garrett as the “franchise WR1” or whatever.

2 of the WRs you referenced above, Brown and Chase, have had a borderline 1a/1b situation early on in their careers and it’s worked out pretty well for them.  Hell, you could make the case that having DeVonta Smith and Higgins around, respectively, helped unlock them as “true # 1’s”.  

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What’s wrong with having a 1a/1b situation for a year or 2 to maximize Rodgers’ time here?  It’s not illegal to have 2 elite WRs on the field at the same time.  And in so doing we’d be squeezing the last bit of juice out of both Rodgers and Adams while still recognizing Garrett as the “franchise WR1” or whatever.

2 of the WRs you referenced above, Brown and Chase, have had a borderline 1a/1b situation early on in their careers and it’s worked out pretty well for them.  Hell, you could make the case that having DeVonta Smith and Higgins around, respectively, helped unlock them as “true # 1’s”.  

I mostly agree except I don't think Wilson has shown he's an elite WR yet. I think he's vey good, but an elite guy? I don't think he's there yet. Maybe he can get there but there's work to do.

[Bobby816]

12 hours ago, funaz said:

I don’t think Wilson is a #1.

He’s more of a Higgins than a chase.

At least at this point


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IMO he absolutely is a #1.

What I see going on is that in his 1st 2 seasons he was respected but our QB (whoever it was that week) wasn't respected. So there was no need to double Wilson. Because the QB wasn't good enough to attack with just Wilson.

 

Now you see teams doubling him every play almost bc Rodgers is respected and they know if you leave Wilson 1 on 1 even against the best CBs that him and Rodgers will beat you that way. So the stats aren't there. But he's contributing by taking on that double team and still making plays when single covered.

The more teams have to pay attention to our other weapons, the less they can double Wilson. A team will do this soon and he'll go off. Lazard is making teams have to pay attention to him. Conklin after last week showed what he can do in the middle of the field if you have that safety over to help double Wilson. Williams is darn near almost 100%. Good luck leaving him 1 on 1 if he's playing almost a full amount of snaps. And let's not forget our RBs that all can catch.

We can beat teams in LOTS of ways. We let them in essence pick there poison and attack. Just through 3 games that plan has been to not let Wilson beat them.

It will be interesting to see what DEN does after seeing how that worked very poorly for NE with a great CB like Surtain in Gonzalez and they still got torched.

[bicketybam]

Wilson is a #1 receiver, just not an elite one. Not yet. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I mostly agree except I don't think Wilson has shown he's an elite WR yet. I think he's vey good, but an elite guy? I don't think he's there yet. Maybe he can get there but there's work to do.

Elite - maybe not, but I do consider him a WR1.  I was more talking about Garrett potentially being elite with another elite guy in Adams on the other side.  

[Rich Thornburgh]

53 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What’s wrong with having a 1a/1b situation for a year or 2 to maximize Rodgers’ time here?  It’s not illegal to have 2 elite WRs on the field at the same time.  And in so doing we’d be squeezing the last bit of juice out of both Rodgers and Adams while still recognizing Garrett as the “franchise WR1” or whatever.

2 of the WRs you referenced above, Brown and Chase, have had a borderline 1a/1b situation early on in their careers and it’s worked out pretty well for them.  Hell, you could make the case that having DeVonta Smith and Higgins around, respectively, helped unlock them as “true # 1’s”.  

No we have to do an experiment to try to win a Super Bowl with no wide receiver depth

[funaz]

][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6]" timestamp="[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6][emoji6]" name="Rich Thornburgh" userid="[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]"] True #’s can regularly beat double teams and shake top corners.  Wilson is still a great player and maybe he goes on to do that this season but I’ve been a little disappointed so far

This is what I am saying.

He has been shutdown by good corners and now he has surtain who is also going to shut him down


Sent from my iPhone using ][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]JetNation.com mobile app

[jamesr]

Elite - maybe not, but I do consider him a WR1.  I was more talking about Garrett potentially being elite with another elite guy in Adams on the other side.  

If you need another elite player opposite you to be elite ... are you actually elite?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What’s wrong with having a 1a/1b situation for a year or 2 to maximize Rodgers’ time here?  It’s not illegal to have 2 elite WRs on the field at the same time.  And in so doing we’d be squeezing the last bit of juice out of both Rodgers and Adams while still recognizing Garrett as the “franchise WR1” or whatever.

2 of the WRs you referenced above, Brown and Chase, have had a borderline 1a/1b situation early on in their careers and it’s worked out pretty well for them.  Hell, you could make the case that having DeVonta Smith and Higgins around, respectively, helped unlock them as “true # 1’s”.  

I didn't say there was anything wrong with having Adams on the team. I'd welcome the addition. Just that it shouldn't be absolutely imperative, and would - and should - greatly depend on what the Raiders would demand for him. If they are stuck on say a 1st rounder or a 2nd & 4th or something along those lines, just to rent 32 year-old Adams for the last two months of the season, I'd be pretty surprised if the Jets are interested literally unless Wilson is on IR. And that's even knowing - despite Saleh's revisionist storytelling - Douglas was trying to trade up for a WR in April, and then when he missed out on doing so in round 1 he traded up for one in round 2 (and tried to trade up for him even earlier, too). 

A lot depends on how much Williams continues to progress, even with Lazard returning to what he was supposed to be last year. Is Williams going to max out as a second TE type (not too many yards on just a handful of targets, but with that huge frame he still wins a few jump balls) but will just never be the same again? Or is he going to return to prior form as a serious ~70ypg WR for a while before age eventually catches up to him down the road. Too early to tell yet.

Also the Eagles had to do that because even with the game's most elite OL and merely one WR1 and a serious receiving TE, Jalen Hurts was & often still is a meh choker as a pure passer in the pocket, and can't nearly read a defense like a veteran Rodgers (last year we all saw what he is when he doesn't have his legs, even with all that around him). Then factor in that as a franchise the Eagles aren't exactly gifted savants at drafting WRs themselves, and had just drafted yet another of their many round 1 WR busts. Fun fact: the last pro bowl WR they drafted was DeSean Jackson way back in 2008, and it wasn't for lack of trying (unlike the Jets who acted like they were allergic to drafting WRs in round 1 for 20+ years). 

[Rich Thornburgh]

21 hours ago, Larz said:

They already had a team meeting and had an airing of the grievances?

yikes lol 

The best was the awkward team meetings with McDaniels a couple years ago where the guy had a midget meltdown when Antonio Pierce cited the 2007 Super Bowl in an attempt to motivate the players

[slimjasi]

14 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

They really need to

They don’t have anyone better, though, right? 

I mean, Aidan O Connell is probably not saving anyone’s season 

[jgb]

If you can call what the Raiders are doing “business decisions,” this is the Dust Bowl all over again.

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 hours ago, slimjasi said:

They don’t have anyone better, though, right? 

I mean, Aidan O Connell is probably not saving anyone’s season 

O’Connell is better than Minshew

[Tooooon]

So Raiderholic comes on this board all summer bragging about the Raiders greatness but bails soon as they start losing?

[BigRy56]

 

[BigRy56]

 

[Flightattendant]

22 minutes ago, Tooooon said:

So Raiderholic comes on this board all summer bragging about the Raiders greatness but bails soon as they start losing?

I don't know if that's fair. They started losing 6 years ago lol.

[Bobby816]

This “injury” doesn’t seem real. Maybe that he’s getting punished for making “business decisions” and maybe a trade upcoming.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Claymation]

15 minutes ago, BigRy56 said: