Was Mangini fired too hastily?

[ECURB]

First of all, the fans had nothing to do with it.

Second of all, when your starting QB throws 7 INT's and 2 TD's in his last 3 starts, you're not going to win too many championships. Of course, the defense did nothing to distinguish themselves, neither.

I think the guy had a few bad things aligning to conspire against him this year, but at the same time he did nothing to try to save himself. I think either way, he was F'd. He could have benched Favre but by then it was too late.

Do I think he will do good in Cleveland? Does anybody?

Alas, water under the bridge. Where do we go now? Nowhere. The coach will change, coordinators will change, QB's will change, but the follies will continue. Same as it ever was.

You may ask yourself... well... how did I get here? ("same as it ever was" is at about 1:30 in)

EYbUCvz1LYE

[MasonJet]

The gameplanning and execution over the last 5 games (plus the Oakland game) was pathetic. He was clearly outcoached in games by by inferior opponents. He had to go.

Exactly. While the team's collapse can't be blamed entirely on Mangini, as the coach he has to take a lot of responsibility for it.

[Magnus Malax]

T Look at the man himself. He simply will never be a very good HC because he lacks the Xs and Os knowledge that every great coach starts with. To be a great HC you have to have organization skills, talent evaluation ability, leadership, etc - all things that Mangini may or may not have to some degree. But he lacked the football knowledge foundation that all of the great ones had. Whether they were known for their defensive or offensive knowledge, ultimately you have to know both sides to be a "genius" at one. It is called Xs and Os, not Xs or Os. Mangini as a "defensive" guy was a fraud. His one year at DC, the NE defense played their worst, with basically the same talent that was there before and after that one year. And Belichick took over the defense later in the year. That kind of says it all.

First off, I will tell you that I've been in a room with the man and he definitely knows X's and O's to a degree that makes your comment seem very off base and also is almost bizarre for someone as young as he is.

I have my own sources in the locker room and I never heard word one of him "losing" the locker room. The organizational management, professionalism and to some degree the talent eval is ALL EM.

Hate him if you want but your premise is wrong and I know it first hand.

He was fired to hastily because WJ said there would be "no rash decisions" yet hours later he's getting canned in the middle of the night. Hell, he got fired before Rod Marinelli. They needed to act quickly to secure the services of...oh wait...

[neckdemon]

that fat piece of ****ing **** shoudl have been fired a year ago.......

[Pragmatic Bus]

First off, I will tell you that I've been in a room with the man and he definitely knows X's and O's to a degree that makes your comment seem very off base and also is almost bizarre for someone as young as he is.

I have my own sources in the locker room and I never heard word one of him "losing" the locker room. The organizational management, professionalism and to some degree the talent eval is ALL EM.

Hate him if you want but your premise is wrong and I know it first hand.

He was fired to hastily because WJ said there would be "no rash decisions" yet hours later he's getting canned in the middle of the night. Hell, he got fired before Rod Marinelli. They needed to act quickly to secure the services of...oh wait...

POTW NOM

pwned!

[#27TheDominator]

He was fired to hastily because WJ said there would be "no rash decisions" yet hours later he's getting canned in the middle of the night. Hell, he got fired before Rod Marinelli. They needed to act quickly to secure the services of...oh wait...

I agree that was not the most tasteful move, but if you're a friend of Mangini you have to appreciate it. It sure helped him get that job quick.

[Magnus Malax]

I agree that was not the most tasteful move, but if you're a friend of Mangini you have to appreciate it. It sure helped him get that job quick.

Appreciate being given the Tom Landry treatment? Tannenbaum (and Woody for that matter) should have been men and done it face-to-face. Maybe in five years it works out well for all involved. Time will tell...but Mike T needs to live with what he's done.

[#27TheDominator]

Appreciate being given the Tom Landry treatment? Tannenbaum (and Woody for that matter) should have been men and done it face-to-face. Maybe in five years it works out well for all involved. Time will tell...but Mike T needs to live with what he's done.

Agreed. It was a douchebaggy way to go about it, but it probably worked out better for Mangini.

[Jet Moses]

Appreciate being given the Tom Landry treatment? Tannenbaum (and Woody for that matter) should have been men and done it face-to-face. Maybe in five years it works out well for all involved. Time will tell...but Mike T needs to live with what he's done.

I think that there were too many seperate agendas; no one was on the same page. Mangini was the convenient firing, and ultimately it's Woody Johnson with the blood on his hands, because you know damn well Schitty and Mike T are making decisions based on what they think Woody wants. They are all in a CYA mode which doesn't bode well for our future as fans of this dysfunctional franchise.

[Larz]

Appreciate being given the Tom Landry treatment? Tannenbaum (and Woody for that matter) should have been men and done it face-to-face. Maybe in five years it works out well for all involved. Time will tell...but Mike T needs to live with what he's done.

mangini was toast after seattle

what didn't they do face to face ?

and how do you know it wasn't done face to face ?

[NJ]

POTW NOM

pwned!

What does that own? Nothing. The Mageen may even know his X's and O's to some degree but it means dik if he doesn't have the stones to execute an aggressive defense and is even more maligned if his ego keeps him from taking chances in the event he may look foolish. He looked foolish enough blowing an 8-3 record when HIS team should have been maturing and getting more consistant rather than erroding into the laughingstock they did. WITHOUT any injuries to blame it on.

Maybe Manggus can ask his "sources" or even his goldenboy EM to comment on how the offense could evolve into the abomination it became by seasons end?

Nah - we already know the problem was Brett Favre, a total absence of talent, and the inability to execute.

[NJ]

Time will tell...but Mike T needs to live with what he's done.

LOL - thats rich.

He'll live with ok. If he hadn't sacked that tithead - Tanny would be getting what The Mageen deserved - which is fired on the field and find your own way home.

[PFSIKH]

mangini=mike shula

Never ever going to work!!

Rex is the guy and we know billick/harbaugh wasn't helping him with Def

gameplans.

Sooner the better. Do not think woody gave cowher a credible offer

$10M per would have gotten it done

We also know the Ravens bypassed Ryan, whom the players lick playing for and they interviewed last off season, for an outside coach.

Jet Nation is hoping Mangini does not learn from his mistakes like Belichick.

No, the Jets didn't act too hestily.

The man was 23-26 for his career, regular season and playoffs. He also presided over the worst collapse in franchise history, much of it was caused by his own in-game decisions and game plans.

This 2 out of 3 seasons argument is total BS. 2008 proved that 2006 was an aberration. Mangini had only 1 good 8 game stretch in his career where his team went 7-1. In the other 41 games, Mangini was 16-25.

Mangini was a bad HC. He regressed as a HC since 2006, was unable or unwilling to make adjustments, has a passive philosphy, and is too stubborn to improve.

And this "down and out squad" argument is also total BS.

The 2005 Jets lost 12 players to IR, 7 were starters. The Jets in 2006 were completely healthy and Chad played a full season. Mangini followed that with a 4-12 season with a completely healthy roster, something that was not the case in 2005.

I think the 10-1 to 10-6 in 86 was a little worse. Plus, I think Brett's "in game decisions" or lack there of might have had something to do with the collapse. I seemed to remember a few decisions in that last week that were unconscionable.

Didn't Penny miss half the season in 2007?

[NIGHT STALKER]

We also know the Ravens bypassed Ryan, whom the players lick playing for and they interviewed last off season, for an outside coach.

Jet Nation is hoping Mangini does not learn from his mistakes like Belichick.

I think the 10-1 to 10-6 in 86 was a little worse. Plus, I think Brett's "in game decisions" or lack there of might have had something to do with the collapse. I seemed to remember a few decisions in that last week that were unconscionable.

Didn't Penny miss half the season in 2007?

That '86 team was decimated with injuries...Jets had no significant injuries this past year.

[SMC]

Appreciate being given the Tom Landry treatment? Tannenbaum (and Woody for that matter) should have been men and done it face-to-face. Maybe in five years it works out well for all involved. Time will tell...but Mike T needs to live with what he's done.

What are you talking about?

It was done face-to-face. Woody and Tannenbaum met with Mangini privately and told Mangini that he was fired. In fact, it was reported that Tannenbaum didn't speak during the meeting and it was Woody who informed Mangini he was fired.

Plus, Tannenbaum called the players individually (see they had left the facilities) to tell them that Mangini had been fired.

[SMC]

I think the 10-1 to 10-6 in 86 was a little worse. Plus, I think Brett's "in game decisions" or lack there of might have had something to do with the collapse. I seemed to remember a few decisions in that last week that were unconscionable.

No. The 1986 team was decimated by injury and still made the playoffs. The 2008 team had no major injuries and missed the playoffs.

Didn't Penny miss half the season in 2007?

No. Penny was benched for ineffectiveness, not because of injury.

[afosomf]

We also know the Ravens bypassed Ryan, whom the players lick playing for and they interviewed last off season, for an outside coach.

Jet Nation is hoping Mangini does not learn from his mistakes like Belichick.

I think the 10-1 to 10-6 in 86 was a little worse. Plus, I think Brett's "in game decisions" or lack there of might have had something to do with the collapse. I seemed to remember a few decisions in that last week that were unconscionable.

Didn't Penny miss half the season in 2007?

your point?

[Jets Voice of Reason]

No. The 1986 team was decimated by injury and still made the playoffs. The 2008 team had no major injuries and missed the playoffs.

No. Penny was benched for ineffectiveness, not because of injury.

lol. An entire season has gone by since he's still gone by and SMC still has to do the same work.

[SMC]

your point?

He has no point because he's patently wrong on all accounts.

[afosomf]

He has no point because he's patently wrong on all accounts.

he was fighting for us last year...so het gets pass on 2007

1986 no clue where he was..,

[Magnus Malax]

What are you talking about?

It was done face-to-face. Woody and Tannenbaum met with Mangini privately and told Mangini that he was fired.

Not exactly...but that's semantics at this point. There was a phone call that preceded the announcement of a presser and a meeting with the owner/GM.

[Jetman_67]

Now that we've all settled down a (little), and the late season slide is less fesh on our minds--I have to ask: Was EM the victim of the pissed-off nature of the Jets and their fanbase? Mangini took a down-and-out squad and produced two winning seasons out of three. During the peak of this year's season, he had the team clicking on all cylinders. Then Brett started throwing badly. Jenkins got nicked up. Momentum slowed then reversed--and we all (myself included) started calling for Mangini's head. Maybe this was unfair. Maybe it was well-earned. But now we've got a defense that he structured, another HC change to deal with, and I'm not certain we're any better off. Woody's knee-jerk reaction may have hindered us in the coming seasons. I'm starting to wonder--though I wanted his head a few weeks ago--are we all just too angry and frustrated as fans to give any coach or player a fair shake?

You are right the epic collapse is a bit more distant. looking back at the season, I believe the Jets made the right choice. Mangini still never made any in game adjustments and the team never at any time showed a sense of urgency. Good riddance to the bastard!!! If only there was a way to fire Woody too...

[ECURB]

No. Penny was benched for ineffectiveness, not because of injury.

He was benched for his ankle injury and still managed to get playing time even with it... it was more sever than anyone knew until the season was over...

[SMC]

He was benched for his ankle injury and still managed to get playing time even with it... it was more sever than anyone knew until the season was over...

He missed 1 game with the ankle injury and played until he was benched for ineffectiveness and the Jets being 1-7.

[SMC]

Not exactly...but that's semantics at this point. There was a phone call that preceded the announcement of a presser and a meeting with the owner/GM.

Are you saying the reports are false?

Because it was reported that Woody, Tannenbaum, and Mangini had a face-to-face meeting where Mangini was fired. He was NOT fired over the phone according to reports.

[sirlancemehlot]

Are you saying the reports are false?

Because it was reported that Woody, Tannenbaum, and Mangini had a face-to-face meeting where Mangini was fired. He was NOT fired over the phone according to reports.

he got the ax pretty harsh no matter how you slice it. After Seattle, I hoped he'd get hit by a bus. But now I'm thinking more clearly. I'm thinking about continuity, personnel, chemistry, ability, luck, an overbearing owner, an ass-kiss GM, a washed-up QB....could be a little time and a little more thought was warranted, especially considering we now start again from scratch--a far cry from 8-3 and beating the Titans and looking toward the #2 seed (hey Jets--where's my ****ing playoff money?). regardless, the woman in your sig makes my pee-pee want to sing. But we digress. And now, for "o' solo mio", starring Peppy on lead vocals.

[PFSIKH]

your point?

There is a hole in Rex Ryan's game.

Maybe, he interviews like crap.

I will say this again so even you can understand. The Ravens had an opening. They had a guy that was with the team for almost 10 years including three years as their DC. Who by all recent published reports, players enjoy playing for.

Instead, they took a guy that had never been a DC on any level much less a HC.

Maybe they were trying the Tomlin thing in the hopes of finding an intelligent inexperienced HC to develop. When that is your choice over someone you know; red flags should be going up. Like why didn't they choose him?

No. The 1986 team was decimated by injury and still made the playoffs. The 2008 team had no major injuries and missed the playoffs.

No. Penny was benched for ineffectiveness, not because of injury.

So his ankle unjury had nothing do with his play? Ok.

[SMC]

So his ankle unjury had nothing do with his play? Ok.

Don't play the fool (although you do it so well).

This is your previous post:

Didn't Penny miss half the season in 2007?

You were simply wrong, admit it.

Penny didn't "miss" half the season. He injured his ankle week 1, missed game 2, and then played IN EVERY GAME until the team was 1-7.

The fact is that the 1986 team was decimated by injuries while the 2008 team was not. You tried to argue (in a complete BS defense of Mangini whom you and your brethren have killed since he left the Pats) that Mangini's 4-12 embarrasment had to do with Chad "missing" half the 2007 season.

That's completely false. So, again, admit you're wrong and move on.

[afosomf]

There is a hole in Rex Ryan's game.

Maybe, he interviews like crap.

I will say this again so even you can understand. The Ravens had an opening. They had a guy that was with the team for almost 10 years including three years as their DC. Who by all recent published reports, players enjoy playing for.

Instead, they took a guy that had never been a DC on any level much less a HC.

Maybe they were trying the Tomlin thing in the hopes of finding an intelligent inexperienced HC to develop. When that is your choice over someone you know; red flags should be going up. Like why didn't they choose him?

So his ankle unjury had nothing do with his play? Ok.

REX will be an improvement over EM that i know

he knows how to run a D and make a gameplan, EM failed miserably in NE

at DC and mumbles had to bail him out

that was the "sign" that we should have steered clear away from Pizza boy.

[Sperm Edwards]

I will say this again so even you can understand. The Ravens had an opening. They had a guy that was with the team for almost 10 years including three years as their DC. Who by all recent published reports, players enjoy playing for.

Instead, they took a guy that had never been a DC on any level much less a HC.

There is one possibility for a good answer that doesn't speak badly about Ryan. (I'm not saying this IS the answer, but it's not far-fetched):

He is such a good DC that they didn't want to lose that by making him HC and having someone lesser oversee the defense, just so Ryan could oversee both the defense AND the offense AND some special teams, instead of sticking with that they know he's good at.

The Jets, by comparison, do not have that situation at DC in place.

[SMC]

he got the ax pretty harsh no matter how you slice it. After Seattle, I hoped he'd get hit by a bus. But now I'm thinking more clearly. I'm thinking about continuity, personnel, chemistry, ability, luck, an overbearing owner, an ass-kiss GM, a washed-up QB....could be a little time and a little more thought was warranted, especially considering we now start again from scratch--a far cry from 8-3 and beating the Titans and looking toward the #2 seed (hey Jets--where's my ****ing playoff money?). regardless, the woman in your sig makes my pee-pee want to sing. But we digress. And now, for "o' solo mio", starring Peppy on lead vocals.

Lynda Carter does that to a lot of people.

I understand the argument about haste, but we cannot overlook the "seething" argument.

Did you ever see the Youtube video of the team coming off the field after the victory over the Pats? Woody and Tannenbaum were ecstatic. They were fired up, hugging players, etc. It was reported that Woody wanted to extend Mangini right there and then, but decided to wait. That proved to be a precient move.

When the season turned down the last 5 games (based on what transpired and reported), it seems Woody saw Mangini to blame for each loss and grew angrier and angrier. Woody is low key in interviews, so he doesn't show his anger. Supposedly, there was a heirarchy meeting after the Niners loss which Woody called. I gather, piecing things together, that Woody already made up his mind to fire Mangini unless the Jets made the playoff. Then there was another meeting after Seattle loss. IMO, Mangini was already fired in Woody's mind going into the Miami game.

So when he talked to reporters after the game, when he said there would be discussions, there were. But these discussions likely entailed Woody telling Tannenbaum and his other FO people to convince him NOT to fire Mangini. Tannenbaum and the FO people either failed to convince Woody or agreed with Woody that Mangini should be fired. That's why the press release was sent out at 2:45 AM. They had approximately 7 hours to meet before then and after the game.

By the way, this is not new. Did you read the behind-the-scenes reports on Herm's departure? It was reported that Woody was so angry at Herm for Woody's belief that he was being extorted by Herm's demand for an extension that he told Bradway that he was willing to get rid of Herm for nothing from the Chiefs. I killed Bradway for only getting a 4th rounder (one of the best trades in franchise history in hindsight), but he was working from a bottom negotiating line of "getting nothing is okay from the owner" so getting a 4th was a good deal.

In summary, Woody had made up his mind to fire Mangini BEFORE the Miami game and was simply waiting for the end of the season. Neither Mangini himself (from the team play), Tannenbaum, nor the other people in the FO were able to convince Woody otherwise.

[Larz]

he got the ax pretty harsh no matter how you slice it. After Seattle, I hoped he'd get hit by a bus. But now I'm thinking more clearly. I'm thinking about continuity, personnel, chemistry, ability, luck, an overbearing owner, an ass-kiss GM, a washed-up QB....could be a little time and a little more thought was warranted, especially considering we now start again from scratch--a far cry from 8-3 and beating the Titans and looking toward the #2 seed (hey Jets--where's my ****ing playoff money?). regardless, the woman in your sig makes my pee-pee want to sing. But we digress. And now, for "o' solo mio", starring Peppy on lead vocals.

no, you're experiencing a form of sellers remorse. now that it is gone, you wonder if it was the right decision

but don't re write history to make it conform to your new view

woody is not over bearing, the personnel had 7 pro-bowlers and 3 all -pro, and he won the coin toss in NE and was the beneficiary of this

Lu1Eqn0T16w

mangini lacks the most important ingredient a modern day NFL HC has to have

leadership

the jets were a rudderless ship

buh bye eric

[Sperm Edwards]

Lynda Carter does that to a lot of people.

I understand the argument about haste, but we cannot overlook the "seething" argument.

Do you ever see the Youtube video of the team coming off the field after the victory over the Pats? Woody and Tannenbaum were ecstatic. They were fired up, hugging players, etc. It was reported that Woody wanted to extend Mangini right there and then, but decided to wait. That proved to be a precient move.

When the season turned down the last 5 games (based on what transpired and reported), it seems Woody saw Mangini to blame for each loss and grew angrier and angrier. Woody is low key in interviews, so he doesn't show his anger. Supposedly, there was a heirarchy meeting after the Niners loss which Woody called. I gather, piecing things together, that Woody already made up his mind to fire Mangini unless the Jets made the playoff. Then there was another meeting after Seattle loss. IMO, Mangini was already fired in Woody's mind going into the Miami game.

So when he talked to reporters after the game, when he said there would be discussions, there were. But these discussions likely entailed Woody telling Tannenbaum and his other FO people to convince him NOT to fire Mangini. Tannenbaum and the FO people either failed to convince Woody or agreed with Woody that Mangini should be fired. That's why the press release was sent out at 2:45 AM. They had approximately 7 hours to meet before then and after the game.

By the way, this is not new. Did you read the behind-the-scenes reports on Herm's departure? It was reported that Woody was so angry at Herm for Woody's belief that he was being extorted by Herm's demand for an extension that he told Bradway that he was willing to get rid of Herm for nothing from the Chiefs. I killed Bradway for only getting a 4th rounder (one of the best trade in franchise history in hindsight), but he was working from a bottom negotiating line of "getting nothing is okay from the owner" so getting a 4th is a good deal.

In summary, Woody had made up his mind to fire Mangini BEFORE the Miami game and was simply waiting for the end of the season. Neither, Mangini himself (from the team play), Tannenbaum, nor the other people in the FO were able to convince Woody otherwise.

+1

[PatriotReign37]

REX will be an improvement over EM that i know

he knows how to run a D and make a gameplan, EM failed miserably in NE

at DC and mumbles had to bail him out

EM got short changed as DC.

Basically, the leader of defense (Bruschi) was out for 7 games after his stroke. Law moved on to NY and Gay (who replaced Law in 04) got hurt -IR IIRC. Duane Starks was brought in to take Laws place. Starks totally svcked and was benched. Harrison only played 3 games and landed on IR.

There was never any indication that EM would not be the NE DC in 2006. In fact, BB asked EM not to take the NY job and stay in NE.

[ToonTime]

Sh!!!!!!T... I wanted woody to come down on the field during the Seattle game and fire his ass....We won those games on talent alone, that can only take you so far just as coaching can only take u so far. We need to get a good balance.