Where did Coles lose us?

[124]

Cause he's a homo

Poor Todd.

[SMC]

With his man-love of Chad. It was obsessive. It was the first true signs that winning was not a high priority for him.

It's become clear that winning is, at most, 3rd on his list behind (1) money, and (2) friendships.

[glenn31]

Not that it takes much to get loved one minute and s$#tted on the very next here, but when did we really lose Coles.

We loved him at first, hated to see him go, loved him when he came back. He's a tough son of a B, he makes clutch grabs, then he started pouted about Penny, was that it?

He dropped a few passes, was that when we hated him?

or was it just a combination of it all. I remember the 6td game, we loved him, so was it after that?

Now everyone here, to a man, hates him and wants him off the team.

when did that occur? (sorry, u know I'm slow), he!!, I still like Penny, I even wanted to keep Keyshawn!!LOL so i need help with these things.(like hating players.)

Imagine we got TO or Ochocinco, oh my Goodness.

Coles lost me at... never. Is he a great WR? No, but for the longest he's been our #1 (except his 'Skins years, and we did a great job replacing him ), and has done a more than admirable/satisfactory job. I don't care what he says to the media, he does his job on the field. And the things he does say are not polarizing like other prima-donna WRs who I've had my fill of. He didn't organize the other WRs and take them into Schott's office to bitch and moan a la TO, nor do I ever recall him ever being suspended a la Chad Johnson, and I've never seen him get into an OC's face while that OC was calling the most important drive of his career and arguably that team's history (Boldin). Has his play slipped, of course, but that's come from all the hits he has taken, all the extra yards he has fought for.

He may have bitched and moaned about Mangini, but guess what? So did most of ya'll and most of ya'll are happy he's gone. He may have did the same with Favre, but right now most of ya'll wan't Favre gone as well. And in hindsight, was he really wrong about it? Maybe he knows you just can't replace a guy who's well versed in the current system by bringing in an old @ss, INT prone QB a couple weeks before the season and expect to do anything grand. And as for his b!tching to the media, the same lot of you will say Chad just said the classy things he said to the NY media to give the "good ol country boy" image, when in reality he was selfish and stole money from the Jets. Can't be both ways Jets fans, gotta have some consistency sooner or later.

[aec4]

I said I was not going to be a prick, but you are working on a good case of it. You should lighten up and not get so defensive, it's not good for your health.

You're making a huge assumption that every team the Jets play are playing Cover 2 - is that really the case or just a convenient was to make your point. I think it is the latter. Coverages against the Jets - more often than not - roll toward Coles' side of the field. Cover two, cover three, cover one - that's where the defensive is cheating toward most of the time.

Every team plays their safeties back occasionally. Noone said every team plays cover 2.

Look, there is no way in hell teams go into the week and say, "We need to double Coles and take him away." Teams do not gameplan for Coles.

Oh, and by the way, it's easy to say, "I don't want to be a prick" and then say what you thought would make you a prick anyway. It's a nice way to try to back out, but it still makes you a prick.

[GreenBeans]

Every team plays their safeties back occasionally. Noone said every team plays cover 2.

Look, there is no way in hell teams go into the week and say, "We need to double Coles and take him away." Teams do not gameplan for Coles.

Oh, and by the way, it's easy to say, "I don't want to be a prick" and then say what you thought would make you a prick anyway. It's a nice way to try to back out, but it still makes you a prick.

Whatever dude, you have no f'n clue. You say safeties back in cover 2, then not everyone plays cover 2. You say Coles was never double teamed his whole career, then it's something else. You say this, then it's that, then it's something else. You can't stick to anything you ever say, and that's fine. To top it all off, you pull a dick move and put a link to a definition and then can't take it when someone dishes it back at you. Oh, and when I wrote:

I was not going to be a prick and say "well, I didn't play Class A baseball for a year", but since you decided to be a douche and post a link to a definition....well, I still won't actually say it.

I was in fact, making fun of you. I'm sure that a man with your intelligence (I mean, you used to to play "professional" little league, after all, you must be brilliant) figured that out - or maybe not, who knows. I think it is generally acknowledged around here that you are a big mouthed idiot, so I'll just say "you're clueless, I disagree with you" and will ignore you the rest of the way. Enjoy your weekend.

[aec4]

Whatever dude, you have no f'n clue. You say safeties back in cover 2, then not everyone plays cover 2. You say Coles was never double teamed his whole career, then it's something else. You say this, then it's that, then it's something else. You can't stick to anything you ever say, and that's fine. To top it all off, you pull a dick move and put a link to a definition and then can't take it when someone dishes it back at you. Oh, and when I wrote: I was in fact, making fun of you. I'm sure that a man with your intelligence (I mean, you used to to play "professional" little league, after all, you must be brilliant) figured that out - or maybe not, who knows. I think it is generally acknowledged around here that you are a big mouthed idiot, so I'll just say "you're clueless, I disagree with you" and will ignore you the rest of the way. Enjoy your weekend.

No, I said Coles never COMMANDED a double team. That means teams didn't go into games saying, "We better cover Coles to take him away." EVERY PLAYER has been doubled once or twice in their lifetimes.

I can take all you want to dish... but don't give me the "I don't want to be a prick" crap. All it means is you WANT to be a prick and I called you out on it.

You can feel free to throw the insults. I don't care. Just means you need to change the subject.

EDIT: I see you're reading this Mr Greenbeans...

[Fishooked]

No one in New York wants to hear a whiner. We all have bigger problems Coles, so shove it.

[Jetlag]

Since this Coles whining thing is such a deal how about we do this. List Coles quotes where he complains and you list what's so wrong with it. I'll even throw a few in that are listed as complaints.

Here's an example of how the media frames it to look like he complains.

Date: 12/07/08

"Last week, Coles made comments to the San Francisco media that the Jets' offense is now driven by QB Brett Favre and the passing game no longer goes through him, that he has been reduced to a role player that teams no longer have to prepare for.

Coles reeled off a list of players who are playing well and said many of them get overlooked because of the presence of Favre. Asked if he was happy, Coles said: "Why would you say I'm not happy with it? It doesn't bother me at all. I get up and come to work. I'm cool."

Now here, what actually came out of his mouth and what was portrayed in the article are two different things.

--------

"We're in a quarterback-driven offense where he pretty much has control of everything, where before the offense was pretty much driven through me. ... I just kind of become a role player instead of a guy that teams had to prepare for." ...

"This is his offense. When we do throw the ball, there's really no level of importance, where at one point it used to be where I was the guy ... in position to get the ball most of the time."

Sounds like a WR who wants the ball. What else is new? Find me one that doesn't.

------------

"I catch balls from the Jugs machine. The ball probably comes out harder from there than it does from anywhere else. ... Of course he's the big name, he's the Hall of Famer, he's going to get the majority of the credit but most of the guys who deserve the credit don't really get it."

A fair assessment. The O-line and RB's deserved way more credit but didn't because of Favre.

[GreenBeans]

No, I said Coles never COMMANDED a double team. That means teams didn't go into games saying, "We better cover Coles to take him away." EVERY PLAYER has been doubled once or twice in their lifetimes.

I can take all you want to dish... but don't give me the "I don't want to be a prick" crap. All it means is you WANT to be a prick and I called you out on it.

You can feel free to throw the insults. I don't care. Just means you need to change the subject.

EDIT: I see you're reading this Mr Greenbeans...

I'm a man of my word - enjoy your weekend.

[ToonTime]

I like Coles, always have. We always whine about punks or players not playing when their tummy hurts, here we have the toughest WR in the game and we bitching. Yeah he talks crap, but not as much as most of other receivers. I dont hink its his fault he disappeared down the stretch, all of the Jets did. He needs a hug, dont we all??

Having said that, I would not mind another big time receiver, or a damn QB that will get ours the damn ball.

thegoods.earn4100.biz

[lancemehl]

I like Coles, always have. He's a very good jet, not great(that would be Namath,Toon,Curtis.....), but very good jet(along with,oh, johnny Hector...)

His "whining", is media BS. He and Cotch both slipped a bit, probably because we tossed Favre into the fire and he started liking Keller. He had nowhere near the chemistry coles and chad had.

He's a tough as nails WR who gets the tough yards.

We love to take a players weakness and magnify it, while minimizing their strengths, it's the MO of the Jets fan.

Curtis Martin- a stat compiler only (i love that one)

When your a jet fan your a jet fan, from ur first cigarette.....ahhh lol

[Vudu]

I say we trade his ass for someone like an Ocho Cinco or a Housh!

*Then watch him have a Steve Smith like season for the Bengals

[Spudicus]

It's all about the skill of the WR, the gameplan and having balance on offense. Coles gives us the skills, he has good hands and toughness, he'll go over the middle and fight for yardage all great things, but he's not elite level talent and able to put the offense on his shoulders if a D focuses on him or he's too hurt he becomes invisible, not his fault though he needs to be part of a tight focused gameplan. With the WR we have the ball should be spread around using all the talent we have to keep the opposing D off balance.

This year Cotch and Coles were targeted predominantly, you know what your getting with both of them Coles is not a deep threat because of a lack of decent acceleration but once he gets going he can cook, so you get Coles the ball in space and he'll make things happen. Cotch makes the tough catch in traffic and breaks tackles, not gonna outrun a corner but over the middle he can wreak havoc on the LB. Now thats easy to stop after a while unless you work in other WR with different skills speed, size, agility, and strength. Clowney gives us deep speed, Henry can outreach, Stuckey is very agile, and Keller fights for every yard.

Coles can be great for us, but he's can't be the primary target every play.

[Arsis]

Coles is just a dick. Nothing wrong with that it just makes me not care about him. He could come or go for all I care. I liked when he left for the skins and I was pissed when he came back. The whole bull**** about him hating all the teams for passing on him and blah blah blah.

[aec4]

Coles is just a dick. Nothing wrong with that it just makes me not care about him. He could come or go for all I care. I liked when he left for the skins and I was pissed when he came back. The whole bull**** about him hating all the teams for passing on him and blah blah blah.

Exactly.. when someone is a dick, and t heir skills are there, people don't mind, but when the skills erode or the body gives way a little, people just want him to go away. Look at Ocho Cinco as an example.

[DoubleDown]

Coles is a good #2 at this point in his career.

I think the concussions have taken their toll and the drops are starting to become much more frequent. He's at the tail end of his career and his best days are behind him.

The whining never really bothered me much...just took it as Coles being Coles.

[kelticwizard]

Coles is not double covered most of the time?

OK, ask yourself this question. How many times have you seen Cotchery catch a good short pass in stride and take it upfield with nobody is there to tackle him for quite awhile? I've seen it happen often.

Now how many times have you seen Coles do that? Rarely. Coles might beat his man and get a perfect pass, but there will always be a second guy near him when he catches the ball. He might fake him out and go a long way, but that second man will be there.

Of course they game plan for Coles. He's the Jets' best receiver and he gets that attention.

[aec4]

Coles is not double covered most of the time?

OK, ask yourself this question. How many times have you seen Cotchery catch a good short pass in stride and take it upfield with nobody is there to tackle him for quite awhile? I've seen it happen often.

Now how many times have you seen Coles do that? Rarely. Coles might beat his man and get a perfect pass, but there will always be a second guy near him when he catches the ball. He might fake him out and go a long way, but that second man will be there.

Of course they game plan for Coles. He's the Jets' best receiver and he gets that attention.

No team "sweats" the Jets receivers. I'm sorry, there is just no way. Coles is the slowest 4.19 at FSU during the pro-day guy I've seen. Sure, it's partially because of his toe, but it's because his straight line speed does not translate. Doesn't make him a bad player though.

Coles has NEVER been a huge YAC guy. look at his best year... his 1st with the Skins. He had 10.x per catch. That's TERRIBLE. He's just not a YAC guy and THAT'S WHY you do not see him bust short passes for long gainers often. He's done it, but not often. It's not because he has 2 guys chasing him around all the time.

[Arsis]

Coles is a good number 2 but he just seems like such an *******s. He is a me guy who is only about the money. I know it is a job and people like to get paid. Which is why I ask for a raise as much as possible. I got a 2 dollar an hour raise at work 6 months ago. I would get laughed at if I asked for another right now.

[kelticwizard]

Coles has NEVER been a huge YAC guy. look at his best year... his 1st with the Skins. He had 10.x per catch. That's TERRIBLE. He's just not a YAC guy and THAT'S WHY you do not see him bust short passes for long gainers often. He's done it, but not often.

He might not bust the long gainers often but when he does I've seen him put on a show. At any rate, when he beats his man cleanly on short passes and heads upfield there is always a man between Coles and the endzone. When Cotch beats his man there isn't. A guy might come from way over and get him eventually, but with Coles there is always a second guy a few yards off.

And did you notice how badly Cotch did in 2007 when Coles was hurt and not playing? Cotchery didn't get open as often, did he? The defense definitely pays more attention to Coles than to Cotch.

[L.S. Dylan]

I like Coles but he's getting older and even if he is #2 wr he will always want #1 money.

[jetophile]

He's tough - you have to give him that. And because he is, kick him in his ass.

[jack48]

Not that it takes much to get loved one minute and s$#tted on the very next here, but when did we really lose Coles.

We loved him at first, hated to see him go, loved him when he came back. He's a tough son of a B, he makes clutch grabs, then he started pouted about Penny, was that it?

He dropped a few passes, was that when we hated him?

or was it just a combination of it all. I remember the 6td game, we loved him, so was it after that?

Now everyone here, to a man, hates him and wants him off the team.

when did that occur? (sorry, u know I'm slow), he!!, I still like Penny, I even wanted to keep Keyshawn!!LOL so i need help with these things.(like hating players.)

Imagine we got TO or Ochocinco, oh my Goodness.

I think Coles does not stink. That is all I can say for him. He isn't tough any more. He gets knocked down, or dives, very easily. His hands are not what they used to be. And he was NEVER great. Just overpaid. But I have been complaining that the Jets WRs are average for two years now. Cotchery is a slot. Brad Smith DOES stink. And Stuckey disappeared for half a season. Wright NEVER catches a pass.

[villain_the_foe]

I repeat, imagine getting TO or Ocho?

The whining I heard was minimal, he certainly is a low to moderate whiner, but unlike the bigtime whiners, he's a tough player.

He had VERY, VERY limited time with Brett, more than everyone, but, OK.......thanks for the answer

You repeated, and i'll answer. T.O. And Ocho are more successful on the field. Those players get it done on the field. EVERY game they are considered a threat. When's the last time Coles been considered a threat???? Its been a very long time. Granted, he doesnt act out like T.O. or Ocho so I wouldnt have made the comparison like you, however, he's nowhere near as successful as either one of those WR's.

In Coles 9 years in the league he has only three (3) 1,000 Yard seasons which his best was 1,264 (one 1,000 YD season with the Redskins and two with the Jets). He has never had more than 7 TD's in one season which he did only twice. Career Yards total 8,095

T.O.: in his 13 years in the league he has nine (9) 1,000 Yard seasons which his best was 1,451 and has had eight (8) seasons with atleast 10 or more TD's, his highest being 16. Career Yards total 14,122

Ocho: In his 8 years in the league he has six (6) 1,000 Yard seasons which his best was 1,440 and has 1 season with 10 TD's and 2 others with 9 TDs. Career Yards total 8,905...Mind you, Ocho came in the league AFTER Coles and has almost 900 more yards than him as well as nine (9) more TD's than he does.

My opinion, Coles doesnt rant and rave like these guys do, however, with his quality pay and his dissappearing acts in a game causes us fans to be real upset with him given that he's not living up to what his potential is.

Maybe its a mix of not having the greatest QB's in the league....could be, but what I do know is that Coles is also not a significant threat on the field.

He had a great game against the Cards this year. But I believe 3 of his 7 TD's this year came against the Cards...which means that he only scored 4 TD's out of the other 15 games. Fam, that doesnt cut it for Jet fans.

[Jetfan13]

Am I the only who thinks this Coles "whining" thing gets totally blown out of proportion? Sure he came out about how It has become it's own entity. It's really not that bad, what has he really ever said that was that bad? Coles pretty much avoids the media, so what? His play down the stretch diminished but how much of that was also on Favre. I don't get what the big deal is on Coles.

Dead on lag...couldn't agree more...I still love Coles, and think he is getting a bad rap..what wr worth anything didn't bitch and whine a little bit?

[lancemehl]

You repeated, and i'll answer. T.O. And Ocho are more successful on the field. Those players get it done on the field. EVERY game they are considered a threat. When's the last time Coles been considered a threat???? Its been a very long time. Granted, he doesnt act out like T.O. or Ocho so I wouldnt have made the comparison like you, however, he's nowhere near as successful as either one of those WR's.

In Coles 9 years in the league he has only three (3) 1,000 Yard seasons which his best was 1,264 (one 1,000 YD season with the Redskins and two with the Jets). He has never had more than 7 TD's in one season which he did only twice. Career Yards total 8,095

T.O.: in his 13 years in the league he has nine (9) 1,000 Yard seasons which his best was 1,451 and has had eight (8) seasons with atleast 10 or more TD's, his highest being 16. Career Yards total 14,122

Ocho: In his 8 years in the league he has six (6) 1,000 Yard seasons which his best was 1,440 and has 1 season with 10 TD's and 2 others with 9 TDs. Career Yards total 8,905...Mind you, Ocho came in the league AFTER Coles and has almost 900 more yards than him as well as nine (9) more TD's than he does.

My opinion, Coles doesnt rant and rave like these guys do, however, with his quality pay and his dissappearing acts in a game causes us fans to be real upset with him given that he's not living up to what his potential is.

Maybe its a mix of not having the greatest QB's in the league....could be, but what I do know is that Coles is also not a significant threat on the field.

He had a great game against the Cards this year. But I believe 3 of his 7 TD's this year came against the Cards...which means that he only scored 4 TD's out of the other 15 games. Fam, that doesnt cut it for Jet fans.

Nothing I could say to that. I agree.

I NEVER thought Coles was a TO or OCHO type threat. I just thought he was one of those tough jets that we, as fans loved.

We ALL loved Freeman McNeil,right, look at his stats, not too hot. same with Chrebet.

Just wondering when he lost our support,exactly.

Good post, though. That says it.

[kelticwizard]

In Coles 9 years in the league....Career Yards total 8,095

Ocho: In his 8 years in the league.....Career Yards total 8,905...

Okay, your own analysis shows that Ocho Cinco averages 1100 yards per season, Coles 900 yards. Putting aside such things as the Jets don't throw many long passes, which might make up some of the difference, I will concede that Coles is not the receiver that Chad Johnson is.

But what kind of receiver is Chad Johnson? Well, he's certainly received mention over the past five years as being perhaps the best receiver out there-a real standout. There are 32 teams in the league, they can't all have Chad Johnson type people playing WR. Coles is not that far behind Ocho Cinco numbers wise that he cannot be considered a good player. He is.

If you don't like Coles, fine, let the Jets get somebody better. There certainly is no WR on this team, at this time, who is that. And finding one might not be as easy you think.

But I've seen posts on this board that discuss our offense but don't even mention Coles, but they mention Cotchery and Stuckey, and I wonder about that.

[villain_the_foe]

Nothing I could say to that. I agree.

I NEVER thought Coles was a TO or OCHO type threat. I just thought he was one of those tough jets that we, as fans loved.

We ALL loved Freeman McNeil,right, look at his stats, not too hot. same with Chrebet.

Just wondering when he lost our support,exactly.

Good post, though. That says it.

He did start out as being one of those tough jet players that we loved....still is to this day to be honest. Having concussions are not a walk in the park on any scale. However, it does get to a point where you want to have a threat, a force I should say at that position. He has pretty much everything in regards to the potential. He's one of the fastest men in the league, he does have the hands though he's dropped a few balls here and there the past 2 years, it seems like he is commited to the team etc.

His problem is that he can have an awesome game and then disappear for the next 3. Im not saying that he should have 100 yards and a TD every game, I saying that you should atleast be able to have the Defense respect the fact that you're actually on the field. Coles doesnt put that fear or concern into the collective mind of a defense.

[villain_the_foe]

Okay, your own analysis shows that Ocho Cinco averages 1100 yards per season, Coles 900 yards. Putting aside such things as the Jets don't throw many long passes, which might make up some of the difference, I will concede that Coles is not the receiver that Chad Johnson is.

But what kind of receiver is Chad Johnson? Well, he's certainly received mention over the past five years as being perhaps the best receiver out there-a real standout. There are 32 teams in the league, they can't all have Chad Johnson type people playing WR. Coles is not that far behind Ocho Cinco numbers wise that he cannot be considered a good player. He is.

If you don't like Coles, fine, let the Jets get somebody better. There certainly is no WR on this team, at this time, who is that. And finding one might not be as easy you think.

But I've seen posts on this board that discuss our offense but don't even mention Coles, but they mention Cotchery and Stuckey, and I wonder about that.

My bad, I only compared Ocho, Coles and T.O. because it was in response to a question that had those three people compared. Im not saying that Coles is garbage or that Ocho is the best WR in the league. Honestly I think Larry Fitzgerald is...and thats not because of the Cards being in the superbowl now, its because you seen what he was bringing since his days at Pitt. The kid is simply a freak. I remember some sports analyst saying that he had the best hands during his last year at Pitt than anyone in the NFL...thats simply one hell of a statement to make. Well, if you look at what he's done last couple years, and especially this years playoffs...I would say that the analyst was right.

Back to topick, I am a Jet fan, sometimes I go overboard on some of our beloved players but its not to be malicious, its because in reality I really do want them to succeed as a team. Alot of years I feel that the Jets underacheived with the talent that was put together...either because of our tough division overall or the fact that we're in the league with the NFL's version of the Chicago bulls in the Patriots. Things kinda just happen.

What I am saying however is this. When have we watched a football game and Coles simply took over? When the game is on the line and you need 80 yards and its a 2min drill, or you're in over time and you got the ball and you need to score NOW? I havent seen Coles really step up and be that "go to" type receiver in that situation...and thats scary to feel being that he's our #1 Wideout on the field. He simply doesnt strike fear into opponents.

Example, Dustin Keller had a game exactly like this. The Jets went into overtime with I believe the Pats and Dustin Keller stepped up and made first down after first down, catch after catch to keep drives alive. It caused for the defense to respect his presence which will take off slack for other guys...so in essence his presence makes the chance for success greater for the other guys at key positions like WR, TE, RB etc.

Coles would probably be the best #2 or Slot WR in the league if you ask me. We just need a WR like an Ocho, not saying he's better, but he puts fear or atleast "serious concern" into the mind of a defense which is what this team needs. We need that Steve Smith, type threat....but to be fair, we also need a QB with a powerful arm and has good awareness. Brett Ratliff is my choice...just had to throw that out there.

I hope that clears up where im coming from big homie.

[KSJets]

When did Coles lose us? When Chad was cut. Why? Because Jets' fans need a whipping boy. When Chad was here, he was the guy everyone would dump all of the team's problems on. Then he was cut, so everyone needed a new player to hate on offense. That became Coles. On defense, it's EASILY been Gholston this year.

[kelticwizard]

When did Coles lose us? When Chad was cut. Why? Because Jets' fans need a whipping boy.

That's a big part of it. Plus he was associated with Chad, so the Chad-hate needed another direction to flow toward once Chad was no longer on the team.

[kelticwizard]

Villian:

Very well-thought out post, and I don't disagree with much of it. I thought using Ocho Cinco was valid, since he came into the league about the same time as Laverneues and has been frequently mentioned over the past five years as perhaps being the best.

But I would like to answer this:

What I am saying however is this. When have we watched a football game and Coles simply took over? When the game is on the line and you need 80 yards and its a 2min drill, or you're in over time and you got the ball and you need to score NOW? I havent seen Coles really step up and be that "go to" type receiver in that situation...and thats scary to feel being that he's our #1 Wideout on the field. He simply doesnt strike fear into opponents.

Throughout his Jets career, Coles' QB has been Chad, among whose strengths is not the two minute drill to end the game. He's a game manager, and you know he's having a good day not when the announcer says, "Chad has completed four passes in a row for 60 yards", but when the announcer says, "It's early in the second quarter and Chad has completed passes to eight different receivers". Sudden strikes and fast, boom-boom marches down the field have not been part of the Jets' offense under Chad. Considering the Jets' offense, I don't think any receiver would be known for "taking over the game".

During his time with the Jets, Coles has been the guy to go to when you need that key first down during your TD march. In fact, he frequently will have another key catch during that same march. More than any other receiver, when we do move the ball it's Coles who is making the key catch, frequently outfighting the db's for it.

Keller has had some 'take over the game" patches, but they were with Favre, not Chad. And Coles and Favre hooked up in the middle part of the season to propel the Jets to 8-3, (along with Thomas Jones). When the Favre-Coles connection faded, for whatever reason, so did the Jets' season.

[JetsMetsRangers]

Villian:

Very well-thought out post, and I don't disagree with much of it. I thought using Ocho Cinco was valid, since he came into the league about the same time as Laverneues and has been frequently mentioned over the past five years as perhaps being the best.

But I would like to answer this:

Throughout his Jets career, Coles' QB has been Chad, among whose strengths is not the two minute drill to end the game. He's a game manager, and you know he's having a good day not when the announcer says, "Chad has completed four passes in a row for 60 yards", but when the announcer says, "It's early in the second quarter and Chad has completed passes to eight different receivers". Sudden strikes and fast, boom-boom marches down the field have not been part of the Jets' offense under Chad. Considering the Jets' offense, I don't think any receiver would be known for "taking over the game".

During his time with the Jets, Coles has been the guy to go to when you need that key first down during your TD march. In fact, he frequently will have another key catch during that same march. More than any other receiver, when we do move the ball it's Coles who is making the key catch, frequently outfighting the db's for it.

Keller has had some 'take over the game" patches, but they were with Favre, not Chad. And Coles and Favre hooked up in the middle part of the season to propel the Jets to 8-3, (along with Thomas Jones). When the Favre-Coles connection faded, for whatever reason, so did the Jets' season.

Coles actually had a good last 3 games, 14 receptions for 230 yards with 1TD and a 16.4 avg......The Keller connection with Favre was almost non-existant the last 3 gamers with only 6 catches for 61 yards and 0 TDS.....

[villain_the_foe]

Villian:

Very well-thought out post, and I don't disagree with much of it. I thought using Ocho Cinco was valid, since he came into the league about the same time as Laverneues and has been frequently mentioned over the past five years as perhaps being the best.

But I would like to answer this:

Throughout his Jets career, Coles' QB has been Chad, among whose strengths is not the two minute drill to end the game. He's a game manager, and you know he's having a good day not when the announcer says, "Chad has completed four passes in a row for 60 yards", but when the announcer says, "It's early in the second quarter and Chad has completed passes to eight different receivers". Sudden strikes and fast, boom-boom marches down the field have not been part of the Jets' offense under Chad. Considering the Jets' offense, I don't think any receiver would be known for "taking over the game".

During his time with the Jets, Coles has been the guy to go to when you need that key first down during your TD march. In fact, he frequently will have another key catch during that same march. More than any other receiver, when we do move the ball it's Coles who is making the key catch, frequently outfighting the db's for it.

Keller has had some 'take over the game" patches, but they were with Favre, not Chad. And Coles and Favre hooked up in the middle part of the season to propel the Jets to 8-3, (along with Thomas Jones). When the Favre-Coles connection faded, for whatever reason, so did the Jets' season.

My bad for taking so long to respond. It was my Wifes birthday today so I had to put in that quality time.

First off, let me state that I dont think that your view in reflection of your statement is wrong....I just think its a "view", same as mine. Many people could look at that view point and look at it as being concrete. Many people could look at my view as well, which I will explain.

Coles has had a QB who is a game manager in Chad Pennington, but seriously...Coles QB hasnt been Chad for almost 2 seasons. Last year it was pretty much Kellen Clemens and this year it was Brett Favre. Both years Coles had stretches out the season where he "disappeared", be it not being on the field with injury or simply not being a factor in the football game. Coles QB situation has changed yet his performance hasnt. Coles isnt a WR that misses football games. He's played (and started) pretty much every game since he was drafted into the league. He missed a few games in 2000 and was injured and missed like 5-6 games last year, besides that he's a 16 game starting player.

My point is. Brett Favre didnt grow a comfort zone with our Coles, our #1 receiver, he grew a comfort zone with Jericho and Dustin. Kellen Clemens didnt grow a comfort zone with Coles, he grew a comfort zone with Cotchery.

In regards to Coles being that "receiver" that our QB went to for first downs...I dont have the stats in front of me but given that I watch damn near every game I would also have to disagree on that statement. Granted, Coles has obviously converted a 3rd down play but he hasnt been that "go to guy" on third down at all. We really havent had that type of player since Wayne Chrebet. Coles has been an "option" on 3rd down, but not a "go to guy" which is a big difference, and I believe that the way you worded it in your statement would give a person not being familiar with the team the impression that Laveranues has been that type of player on 3rd down when he really hasnt. Yes, Coles is a good WR, but he disappears. Example, The game vs the Seahawks. Brett Favre in the 4th Qtr (game saving drive here), down by some points needs to get the ball down the field and get it done quickly. The first throw to coles was over thrown but then Coles is told to run the same play again and Brett throws into double coverage but this ball (for once) was absolutely on the money. the ball sails over both defenders and lands smack in Coles hands....except he cant handle the pass and drops the ball...on 4th down. Yes, I know that it was a cold snowy game, but bottomline..Go to guys and #1 WR's dont do that, especially one who locks up money from a team. Not saying that I am "pro" establishment...trust me, im not, at the same time if you're going to ask for that type of money then you got to be telling the franchise that you're going to make those types of catches and thats why you're worth the money. Remember, Cotchery is catching footballs with his bicep and helmet against our arch Nemesis, yet Coles cant even bring in a pass that was placed in the palm of his hands against a Seahawks team on 4th down with the season and playoffs on the line. Which would bring me back to probably why our QB's have been comfortable throwing to different options on the field and Coles disappearing in football games.

basically, what my view point is, is that Coles disappears in football games. He talks to the media about how he feels about Chad being dropped (which i understand) but at the same time Coles has been dropping the ball too. He practically forces the Jets hand to guarantee money and restructure his contract yet he's not living up to the expectations of what a #1 WR should be...which is a threat and a concern to the defense when on the field. Maybe its me. I mean I do root for the guy when I watch the Jets, but im simply not impressed by him performance wise. He's simply not a game changer.

This is why many people (including myself) would love to see a WR like David Clowney get the opportunity. Not saying to bench Coles but maybe switch up with Cotch between #2 and slot. but I just hope that this guy can bring some of the intangables that Coles lack.

[lancemehl]

My bad for taking so long to respond. It was my Wifes birthday today so I had to put in that quality time.

First off, let me state that I dont think that your view in reflection of your statement is wrong....I just think its a "view", same as mine. Many people could look at that view point and look at it as being concrete. Many people could look at my view as well, which I will explain.

Coles has had a QB who is a game manager in Chad Pennington, but seriously...Coles QB hasnt been Chad for almost 2 seasons. Last year it was pretty much Kellen Clemens and this year it was Brett Favre. Both years Coles had stretches out the season where he "disappeared", be it not being on the field with injury or simply not being a factor in the football game. Coles QB situation has changed yet his performance hasnt. Coles isnt a WR that misses football games. He's played (and started) pretty much every game since he was drafted into the league. He missed a few games in 2000 and was injured and missed like 5-6 games last year, besides that he's a 16 game starting player.

My point is. Brett Favre didnt grow a comfort zone with our Coles, our #1 receiver, he grew a comfort zone with Jericho and Dustin. Kellen Clemens didnt grow a comfort zone with Coles, he grew a comfort zone with Cotchery.

In regards to Coles being that "receiver" that our QB went to for first downs...I dont have the stats in front of me but given that I watch damn near every game I would also have to disagree on that statement. Granted, Coles has obviously converted a 3rd down play but he hasnt been that "go to guy" on third down at all. We really havent had that type of player since Wayne Chrebet. Coles has been an "option" on 3rd down, but not a "go to guy" which is a big difference, and I believe that the way you worded it in your statement would give a person not being familiar with the team the impression that Laveranues has been that type of player on 3rd down when he really hasnt. Yes, Coles is a good WR, but he disappears. Example, The game vs the Seahawks. Brett Favre in the 4th Qtr (game saving drive here), down by some points needs to get the ball down the field and get it done quickly. The first throw to coles was over thrown but then Coles is told to run the same play again and Brett throws into double coverage but this ball (for once) was absolutely on the money. the ball sails over both defenders and lands smack in Coles hands....except he cant handle the pass and drops the ball...on 4th down. Yes, I know that it was a cold snowy game, but bottomline..Go to guys and #1 WR's dont do that, especially one who locks up money from a team. Not saying that I am "pro" establishment...trust me, im not, at the same time if you're going to ask for that type of money then you got to be telling the franchise that you're going to make those types of catches and thats why you're worth the money. Remember, Cotchery is catching footballs with his bicep and helmet against our arch Nemesis, yet Coles cant even bring in a pass that was placed in the palm of his hands against a Seahawks team on 4th down with the season and playoffs on the line. Which would bring me back to probably why our QB's have been comfortable throwing to different options on the field and Coles disappearing in football games.

basically, what my view point is, is that Coles disappears in football games. He talks to the media about how he feels about Chad being dropped (which i understand) but at the same time Coles has been dropping the ball too. He practically forces the Jets hand to guarantee money and restructure his contract yet he's not living up to the expectations of what a #1 WR should be...which is a threat and a concern to the defense when on the field. Maybe its me. I mean I do root for the guy when I watch the Jets, but im simply not impressed by him performance wise. He's simply not a game changer.

This is why many people (including myself) would love to see a WR like David Clowney get the opportunity. Not saying to bench Coles but maybe switch up with Cotch between #2 and slot. but I just hope that this guy can bring some of the intangables that Coles lack.

That drop was horrendous, but they've all done it. Remember Chrebet trying to jump over a defender and fumbling so he could break his fall, very stupid play from a smart player, it happens.

Coles is a second tier guy, but so was Chrebet and Freeman and many of our other "darlings", I just was wondering when Coles went from tough gritty player, to whipping post. lol