TJB's Bent On Every Gholston Play Sunday

[JustInFudge]

Ok JIF Gholston will now be known as the occupier > I will never call him The Ghost again. When His contract is up we will pay him more dollars to occupy .

THE OCCUPIER right up there with such terms as the COMPILER except COMPILERS actully contribute.

JIF Im thrilled Vernon is doing his job Im thrilled to death.

Also dont call people Jackasses. When a player is signed at a high profile position to rush the passer you cant be happy with him improving at things totally irrelevant to that. I would certainly like to see more than 2 pressures in 3 games. Sorry but I think this arguement is a waste of our time. Like I said When Pace gets back Vernon gets the Bench. If he played 30 plays this week he will be lucky to get 15 when Pace returnes, very lucky

LOL, you obviously cant admit when you're wrong. Its cool brother. I still love, sorry I called you and the others jackasses, it was more of using a word to group you all together rather than an insult.

[Klecko73isGod]

The $25 million signing bonus that's his to keep does NOT go against the cap, so that's definitely a flawed statement.

And the fact is, we DIDN'T spend the money "somewhere else". We spent the $25 million on a possible bust. That's money we could have saved by trading down to a lower-cost draft slot and use for one of the many contract extensions we will need to be able to afford someday.

Every failed investment costs the team, and this one could cost us big-time if we don't get return on it.

Oh and you can't hold Gholston personally responsible for his contract. That's what the market will bear for the number six pick in the NFL draft. Gholston was just the guy lucky enough to be in that position.

Holding a contract against a guy like Gholston, who didn't hold out and has done nothing but have a positive attitude and work hard since he's been on this team, is nonsensical and really has no bearing in a discussion of his actual performance.

Especially when there is no one else we could have drafted in that position who is exactly lighting the world on fire right now.

[Smashmouth]

LOL, you obviously cant admit when you're wrong. Its cool brother. I still love, sorry I called you and the others jackasses, it was more of using a word to group you all together rather than an insult.

JIF I admitted I was wrong about the alignments. I did not scan the field for vernon gholston every single play. I forgot to tivo this game but I did tivo the other 2 and he didnt do much. Read my post to Kleck and you will see I admitted my mistake on the alignments.

On the obvious plays that went Vernons way he seemed to be the same old vernon missing the chance at making a play.

Tell me Jif who is the most Improved Jet on Defense this year ? Eric Smith or Vernon Gholston ?

[slats]

You cant expect a guy that couldnt even get on the field last season to all of a sudden become Suggs overnight. He is improving, and who knows, if he keeps up his improvement, maybe he will start adding the pass rushing element he clearly lacks right now besides a straight bull rush.

I'd be a lot more encouraged if he was coming in on passing downs instead of leaving on passing downs. They've taken a guy who was brought in to get after the passer and reduced him to a body who occupies blockers. A guy who "gets a push," so that the playmakers can make plays. The fact that this is even the slightest bit encouraging is evidence of just how poorly Gholston has been to this point. Right now, he appears to be improving at a slower rate than Bryan Thomas did, which has to be considered disappointing.

It's admirable that you can separate Gholston from his draft position and paycheck, but you can't expect everyone else to fall in line with that. The #6 pick in the draft should get you a major impact player. The amount of money's he's being paid should buy a handful of players producing at his current level.

I'm glad he's out on the field, and I'm glad that he's not a liability out there. That's something. They're playing him in a lot of spots, and it'll be interesting to see how much the team continues to use him once Pace gets back.

[JustInFudge]

JIF I admitted I was wrong about the alignments. I did not scan the field for vernon gholston every single play. I forgot to tivo this game but I did tivo the other 2 and he didnt do much. Read my post to Kleck and you will see I admitted my mistake on the alignments.

On the obvious plays that went Vernons way he seemed to be the same old vernon missing the chance at making a play.

Tell me Jif who is the most Improved Jet on Defense this year ? Eric Smith or Vernon Gholston ?

I dont know what that has to do with anything, but Eric Smith has been fantastic thus far. However, its really hard to judge who's improved more because one player is going from not being able to get on the field to playing well while in the game and the other went from being a liability on the field to playing really well while in the game.

Both have made equal strides of improvement based off where they were last year, but overall, Smith's impact has probably been larger, but again...our ILB's and CB's success is highly predicated off the ability of our OLB, DE's to do their job which is occupy blockers and make lanes for them to make the big play

[Jetsfan80]

Oh and you can't hold Gholston personally responsible for his contract. That's what the market will bear for the number six pick in the NFL draft. Gholston was just the guy lucky enough to be in that position.

Holding a contract against a guy like Gholston, who didn't hold out and has done nothing but have a positive attitude and work hard since he's been on this team, is nonsensical and really has no bearing in a discussion of his actual performance.

Especially when there is no one else we could have drafted in that position who is exactly lighting the world on fire right now.

I'm not holding Gholston responsible for where he got drafted, that's the thing. As an NFL player, you have every the privilege to go get as much money as you can.

My point was that the team DEFINITELY is concerned with this investment, and so should we. You said "it's not coming out of your pocket", but really it is. If you buy tickets to games, you are contributing money to the Jets and every investment the team makes.

What I DO hold Gholston responsible for is his play after getting his payday. Right now, his play is about what a typical 4th rounder would give us. I would love to see improvement, but I don't expect all that much out of him.

[Smashmouth]

JIF only time will tell lets just agree to disagree on Vernon and see what happens.

[flgreen]

Great Job

Kind of confirms what I have suspected about Gholston all along. He is not a bad player, in that teams don

[JustInFudge]

I'd be a lot more encouraged if he was coming in on passing downs instead of leaving on passing downs. They've taken a guy who was brought in to get after the passer and reduced him to a body who occupies blockers. A guy who "gets a push," so that the playmakers can make plays. The fact that this is even the slightest bit encouraging is evidence of just how poorly Gholston has been to this point. Right now, he appears to be improving at a slower rate than Bryan Thomas did, which has to be considered disappointing.

It's admirable that you can separate Gholston from his draft position and paycheck, but you can't expect everyone else to fall in line with that. The #6 pick in the draft should get you a major impact player. The amount of money's he's being paid should buy a handful of players producing at his current level.

I'm glad he's out on the field, and I'm glad that he's not a liability out there. That's something. They're playing him in a lot of spots, and it'll be interesting to see how much the team continues to use him once Pace gets back.

Slats, I dont know if you've been following this argument, but its been going on for a while in different threads.

I've never said, nor do I believe that VG is playing to his expectations. First off, I expected VG to be one of our numerous draft day blunders. He was an obvious project and I dont think anyone thought VG was going to make an immediate impact. That said I've been extremely critical of him and what we wasted on him, but it is what it is, we are stuck with the guy. At this point, all we can ask for is improvement ans he's improving. Maybe one day it all clicks and he becomes a more complete player. Until then, he is doing his job on a top 3 defense for an undefeated team.

By no means am I satisfied with VG or do I believe he's playing great Football. My point has been and I've not changed my stance a bit, that he is playing well while in the game, we are using him numerous fashions and most importantly he is improving. This is a good thing, I dont see how its bad.

[SoFlaJets]

when it comes to VG I keep going back to Bryan Thomas-he was drafted in the first round and pretty much was relegated to bench behind John Abraham. He never complained-once. He has never missed a game-not one. He was moved around and one time even in the middle-now he's a LBer/DE hybrid-never one grouse. 90% of the Jets fans on the board were saying the same things about BT as they are now about Gholston.

As being a resident old fart here I can tell you guys this; some kids take longer to come into their own and as a Jets FAN, I think this will be the case with Vern. Where are all the Bryan Thomas is a Bust guys now? All I can say is give him time-he'll be alright and thank God we don't REALLY need him now. He'll be Calvin Pace's backup starting next week. Hey even Pohau is looking better-he caused the Collins INT to Harris after Jenks went out hurt. Have some faith guys. I trust in THIS coaching staff to make this kid into a player.

[slats]

Slats, I dont know if you've been following this argument, but its been going on for a while in different threads.

I've never said, nor do I believe that VG is playing to his expectations. First off, I expected VG to be one of our numerous draft day blunders. He was an obvious project and I dont think anyone thought VG was going to make an immediate impact. That said I've been extremely critical of him and what we wasted on him, but it is what it is, we are stuck with the guy. At this point, all we can ask for is improvement ans he's improving. Maybe one day it all clicks and he becomes a more complete player. Until then, he is doing his job on a top 3 defense for an undefeated team.

By no means am I satisfied with VG or do I believe he's playing great Football. My point has been and I've not changed my stance a bit, that he is playing well while in the game, we are using him numerous fashions and most importantly he is improving. This is a good thing, I dont see how its bad.

I agree with you here.

I've followed this debate peripherally, because I really don't have a strong "Gholston sucks!" opinion, nor do I see much reason to defend him. I saw you comment a couple times that Gholston was playing "very well," and that kinda led me to chime in here. All I see from him right now is that he's not playing poorly, not that he's doing anything particularly well. I think the Jets are in a position that they have to play him because of Pace's suspension, his draft position, and a general lack of quality depth - the latter of which can be directly attributable to Gholston's draft position and pay.

Let it be known, too, that I have no problem with Gholston as far as where he was drafted or what he's being paid in relation to his production. Good for him that he did so well in college and draft prep that his family should now be taken care of for life. My problem there is with the front office. Tannenbaum trades away a lot of picks. As a result, his margin of error is a lot less than a team like the Pats who compile picks. Tanny can't afford to whiff at #6.

I'll be very interested to see if he shows enough improvement to stay on the field once Pace returns, or if guys like Westerman and Murrell demonstrate that they're improving faster.

[#27TheDominator]

when it comes to VG I keep going back to Bryan Thomas-he was drafted in the first round and pretty much was relegated to bench behind John Abraham. He never complained-once. He has never missed a game-not one. He was moved around and one time even in the middle-now he's a LBer/DE hybrid-never one grouse. 90% of the Jets fans on the board were saying the same things about BT as they are now about Gholston.

As being a resident old fart here I can tell you guys this; some kids take longer to come into their own and as a Jets FAN, I think this will be the case with Vern. Where are all the Bryan Thomas is a Bust guys now? All I can say is give him time-he'll be alright and thank God we don't REALLY need him now. He'll be Calvin Pace's backup starting next week. Hey even Pohau is looking better-he caused the Collins INT to Harris after Jenks went out hurt. Have some faith guys. I trust in THIS coaching staff to make this kid into a player.

I don't like Bryan Thomas. Why don't you compare him to Pace? Pace was a guy that was supposed to be a pass rusher and absolutely blew. Couldn't even get on the field on a team with a **** D. Now we all breathlessly await his return.

[SoFlaJets]

I don't like Bryan Thomas. Why don't you compare him to Pace? Pace was a guy that was supposed to be a pass rusher and absolutely blew. Couldn't even get on the field on a team with a **** D. Now we all breathlessly await his return.

because I didn't see Pace's career start-Thomas', I have

[flgreen]

when it comes to VG I keep going back to Bryan Thomas-he was drafted in the first round and pretty much was relegated to bench behind John Abraham. He never complained-once. He has never missed a game-not one. He was moved around and one time even in the middle-now he's a LBer/DE hybrid-never one grouse. 90% of the Jets fans on the board were saying the same things about BT as they are now about Gholston.

As being a resident old fart here I can tell you guys this; some kids take longer to come into their own and as a Jets FAN, I think this will be the case with Vern. Where are all the Bryan Thomas is a Bust guys now? All I can say is give him time-he'll be alright and thank God we don't REALLY need him now. He'll be Calvin Pace's backup starting next week. Hey even Pohau is looking better-he caused the Collins INT to Harris after Jenks went out hurt. Have some faith guys. I trust in THIS coaching staff to make this kid into a player.

Your right and Thomas is playing very well.

The main differnce is Gholston was #5, if I'm not mistaken Thomas was #22. Big difference in the $.

[JustInFudge]

I agree with you here.

I've followed this debate peripherally, because I really don't have a strong "Gholston sucks!" opinion, nor do I see much reason to defend him. I saw you comment a couple times that Gholston was playing "very well," and that kinda led me to chime in here. All I see from him right now is that he's not playing poorly, not that he's doing anything particularly well. I think the Jets are in a position that they have to play him because of Pace's suspension, his draft position, and a general lack of quality depth - the latter of which can be directly attributable to Gholston's draft position and pay.

Let it be known, too, that I have no problem with Gholston as far as where he was drafted or what he's being paid in relation to his production. Good for him that he did so well in college and draft prep that his family should now be taken care of for life. My problem there is with the front office. Tannenbaum trades away a lot of picks. As a result, his margin of error is a lot less than a team like the Pats who compile picks. Tanny can't afford to whiff at #6.

I'll be very interested to see if he shows enough improvement to stay on the field once Pace returns, or if guys like Westerman and Murrell demonstrate that they're improving faster.

Hey, fair enough.

Tanny might have whiffed at #6. But that situation was the one I feared the most, all the guys I wanted gone, leaving us with VG and a bunch of what looked like reaches at the time. Just look at this first round...

1. Miami - Jake Long, OT Michigan

2. St. Louis - Chris Long, DE Virginia

3. Atlanta - Matt Ryan, QB Boston College

4. Oakland - Darren McFadden, RB Arkansas

5. Kansas City - Glen Dorsey, DT LSU

6. NY Jets - Vernon Gholston, DE Ohio State

7. New Orleans (From 49ers through Patriots)- Sedrick Ellis, DT USC

8. Jacksonville (From Ravens)- Derrick Harvey, DE Florida

9. Cincinnati - Keith Rivers, LB USC

10. New England (From Saints)- Jerod Mayo, LB Tennessee

11. Buffalo - Leotis McKelvin, CB Troy

12. Denver - Ryan Clady, OT Boise State

13. Carolina - Jonathan Stewart, RB Oregon

14. Chicago - Chris Williams, OT Vanderbilt

15. Kansas City (From Lions)- Branden Albert, G Virginia

16. Arizona - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB Tennessee State

17. Detroit (From Vikings through Chiefs)- Gosder Cherilus, OT Boston College

18. Baltimore (From Texans)- Joe Flacco, QB Delaware

19. Carolina (From Eagles)- Jeff Otah, OT Pittsburgh

20. Tampa Bay - Aqib Talib, CB Kansas

21. Atlanta (From Redskins)- Sam Baker, OT USC

22. Dallas (From Browns)- Felix Jones, RB Arkansas

23. Pittsburgh - Rashard Mendenhall, RB Illinois

24. Tennessee - Chris Johnson, RB East Carolina

25. Dallas (From Seahawks)- Mike Jenkins, CB South Florida

26. Houston (From Jaguars through Ravens)- Duane Brown, OT Virginia Tech

27. San Diego - Antoine Cason, CB Arizona

28. Seattle (From Cowboys)- Lawrence Jackson, DE USC

29. San Francisco (From Colts)- Kentwan Balmer, DT North Carolina

30. NY Jets (From Packers)- Dustin Keller, TE Purdue

31. NY Giants - Kenny Phillips, S Miami (FL)

Even in hindsight, there's no obvious choice that we just totally ****ed up on...IMO. I was in the Derrick Harvey or Keith Rivers pool. Thats where I wanted to go because I knew DMC and Chris Long were going to be gone. That said nobody on this list that was truly a viable options at 6 really jumps out at you and says, wow the Jets had their chance at a star and blew it on VG.

Its not like the passing on Ed Reed for Bryan Thomas situation or some of the other historical **** ups....at least not yet.

[Klecko73isGod]

Your right and Thomas is playing very well.

The main differnce is Gholston was #5, if I'm not mistaken Thomas was #22. Big difference in the $.

Gholston was actually #6.

But he and Thomas came into very similar situations. Thomas was drafted as a 4-3 DE when we had two very good young 4-3 DEs on the roster both coming off of strong rookie years. How much was Thomas going to play with Ellis and Abraham on the roster?

Gholston was drafted as a 3-4 OLB when we already had Bryan Thomas who had blossomed since switching positions to 3-4 OLB and had recently signed Pace as a FA to play 3-4 OLB. How much would Gholston play in the basic 3-4 schemes of Mangini with Thomas and Pace already on the roster?

[JustInFudge]

I don't like Bryan Thomas. Why don't you compare him to Pace? Pace was a guy that was supposed to be a pass rusher and absolutely blew. Couldn't even get on the field on a team with a **** D. Now we all breathlessly await his return.

Thats the irony behind this whole debate. We are comparing VG to Pace, which he clearly is not, but Pace was a complete bust, maybe even bigger than VG at this point and it took him 4 years to become the player he is today.

[slats]

Even in hindsight, there's no obvious choice that we just totally ****ed up on...IMO. I was in the Derrick Harvey or Keith Rivers pool. Thats where I wanted to go because I knew DMC and Chris Long were going to be gone. That said nobody on this list that was truly a viable options at 6 really jumps out at you and says, wow the Jets had their chance at a star and blew it on VG.

Its not like the passing on Ed Reed for Bryan Thomas situation or some of the other historical **** ups....at least not yet.

I hear you. I expected Gholston to do well, despite the underlying fears generated by a Mike Mamula type run up to the draft. I think I wanted either him or one of the CB's, but I don't get paid the big bucks. Now I wish he would put up Mike Mamula type production. That's a crappy place to be.

[New York Mick]

Actually you're wrong. You're very wrong. The NFL currently has a salary cap and the Jets spend to the cap every year. They would spending this money on someone else if they weren't spending on Vernon Gholston.

I'd rather have them spending it on someone else.

[Obrien2Toon]

strongside 18 weakside 18? Doesn't seem right. I was at the game and didn't see any replay of it yet. But it looked like he would always go to the weakside.

[bitonti]

Thats the irony behind this whole debate. We are comparing VG to Pace, which he clearly is not, but Pace was a complete bust, maybe even bigger than VG at this point and it took him 4 years to become the player he is today.

QFT

by the way if Gholston is such a bust and s--tty player when why are the titans doubling him multiple times during the game?

[SoFlaJets]

Thats the irony behind this whole debate. We are comparing VG to Pace, which he clearly is not, but Pace was a complete bust, maybe even bigger than VG at this point and it took him 4 years to become the player he is today.

great stuff in this thread JiF-what we have to realize is it's a long term project we have in Gholston-at least he isn't out there in the clubs or Tweeting about how great he is in pre-season-I haven't heard him complain once yet either-like Thomas never did. Give the kid time you guys and if he turns out to be a bust then we'll move on but it won't be for lack of trying or work ethic or because the kid has been an a-hole misrepresenting this team.

[jason423]

I think everyone gets their answer about whether or not he is playing well enough once Pace comes back. If Pace comes back and Gholston basically gets the Murrell snaps that will show that the team still doesnt view him as much. If he still gets considerable snaps its a good sign. Right now he is way behind in development and certainly not as good as DeWayne Robertson was at a similar stage, but hes also not complete dead weight. I think much of his future with the team depends on the future salary cap. Teams can afford to be patient when players dont carry a big cap hit, but its alot harder to carry backups taking up between 3 and 4 million a year in cap room. Its why most of the pass rushers selected in the same areas where Gholston is taken that dont make an impact are typically cut after the third year.

[Matt39]

If we pulled up Robertson threads they would sound awfully similar.

[Smashmouth]

If we pulled up Robertson threads they would sound awfully similar.

Robertson was a completely different story. First of all the guy had a bone on bone condition in his knee. Second of all Mangini Put him in a position he had no business playing. He was a strong player his rookie year in a 4 man front. You could see sometimes he would plant that bad knee and just get destroyed he had to be playing in a tremendous amount of pain. We knew he had issues but we drafted him but we pulled the trigger anyhow.

[Larz]

"Lined up as a strongside DE on first down, then a weakside DE (false start), then a weakside OLB, then a DT in a 46 package on 3rd down."

are you kidding me ?

I'm giving him until week 10 to learn all these assignments, and I think we will start to see dividends

the only other guy that moves around like that is on the pats* and a guy every fan here wanted

[JustInFudge]

great stuff in this thread JiF-what we have to realize is it's a long term project we have in Gholston-at least he isn't out there in the clubs or Tweeting about how great he is in pre-season-I haven't heard him complain once yet either-like Thomas never did. Give the kid time you guys and if he turns out to be a bust then we'll move on but it won't be for lack of trying or work ethic or because the kid has been an a-hole misrepresenting this team.

Thanks for the kind words.

The thing about it is, we can take our time with him. If he comes around in 2 years and play at Pace's level and sustains that play...then we made a great pick. There is nobody better in the business to teach this guy how to play and to keep a fire lite under his ass than Rex Ryan.

Who knows what he turns out to be, for now, I think its promising that he is improving and contributing when we really needed it from him with Pace out for 4 weeks.

[LionelRichie]

If we pulled up Robertson threads they would sound awfully similar.

2-time defensive player of the week