JonEJet Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 How would you describe mid twenties guys who are top of the rotation guys? I would describe one of them out for the year....possibly for a career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I would describe one of them out for the year....possibly for a career His career is not in jeopardy, JonE. They are even saying he could be back this season. David Wright had the same injury and was out for a couple of months. Don't be so dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Not to worry....Lackey looking like a solid #3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Not to worry....Lackey looking like a solid #3 More importantly lets talk about how much better Dave Robertson is than Bard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 More importantly lets talk about how much better Dave Robertson is than Bard. If you're basing it on tonight, sure. If you're basing it on career body of work, Bard has been. They've both pitched well this season and before tonight were very close to one another. Bard hadn't given up a run since May, I'm willing to give him a pass tonight. Lackey had been better of late, but he sucked again tonight. I trust him about 0%. And he's a d-bag to his teammates. That contract can't be over soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 If you're basing it on tonight, sure. If you're basing it on career body of work, Bard has been. They've both pitched well this season and before tonight were very close to one another. Bard hadn't given up a run since May, I'm willing to give him a pass tonight. Lackey had been better of late, but he sucked again tonight. I trust him about 0%. And he's a d-bag to his teammates. That contract can't be over soon enough. Robertson has been better and he's been better this year even before tonight. Shocking that you wouldn't agree though haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Robertson has been better and he's been better this year even before tonight. Shocking that you wouldn't agree though haha. Robertson was barely better before tonight. Both have pitched well this season, as I said before. Tonight was an aberration. Shocking you didn't say anything about Bard's scoreless streak though. ha ha ha! I can at least give credit where it is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Robertson was barely better before tonight. Both have pitched well this season, as I said before. Tonight was an aberration. Shocking you didn't say anything about Bard's scoreless streak though. ha ha ha! I can at least give credit where it is due. Before tonight Robertson's WAR was 1.8 and Bard's was 1.3. Thats substantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Before tonight Robertson's WAR was 1.8 and Bard's was 1.3. Thats substantial. Not everyone puts as much stock as you do into those stats. Based on stats that have been around a long, long time, they were pretty much pitching neck and neck with Robertson being a little better. Your original post said let's talk about how much better Robertson is than Bard. This season? Marginally. Career? It's Bard and it's not close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Career? It's Bard and it's not close. Robertson--1 Ring Bard--0 Ring Robbie, and it's not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 They have almost an identical number of appearances and IP, so the comparison is pretty easy to make. Aside from his (fantastic) K/9 and the fact that he has a better record (something I put zero stock in for RP's), there is absolutely nothing that suggests that Robertson has been the better pitcher over the course of their respective careers. That's not to say that Robertson hasn't been excellent this year, but he still needs to work on his control (as evidenced by his poor BB/9 and high number of wild pitches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Robertson--1 Ring Bard--0 Ring Robbie, and it's not even close Youkilis 2 A-Rod 1 Therefore Youkilis>A-Rod and it's not even close. Right JonE? Wakefield 2 CC 1 Therefore Wakefield>CC and it's not even close. Right JonE? Just using your moronic logic against you. By the way, Bard's ERA in his career is a full run less and his WHIP is also significantly lower. Both are 26 and both could be closers in the waiting soon and both are having great seasons. That's all that needs to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Back on topic, is Hughes getting demoted to the pen? Interesting. Well, Nolan Ryan had to toil in the pen with HOF kind of stuff, so Phil is just going to have to take the same route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Back on topic, is Hughes getting demoted to the pen? Interesting. Well, Nolan Ryan had to toil in the pen with HOF kind of stuff, so Phil is just going to have to take the same route. My cable went out, can anyone tell me how Hughes did tonight? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Bard and Robertson have pretty much equally good career xFIP and WAR stats. That being said, most of Robertson's quality has come from this year, so he has a worse track record and he also has horrible control; not something I like in a pitcher. Phil Hughes is very talented and I'm sure he'll have a solid career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 My cable went out, can anyone tell me how Hughes did tonight? Thanks. They started casting the bust again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Bard and Robertson have pretty much equally good career xFIP and WAR stats. That being said, most of Robertson's quality has come from this year, so he has a worse track record and he also has horrible control; not something I like in a pitcher. Phil Hughes is very talented and I'm sure he'll have a solid career. The point is that Bard is all hyped up and Robertson had matched him up to this season and he's be been better this season. "Horrible" control is pushing it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 My cable went out, can anyone tell me how Hughes did tonight? Thanks. He was phenomenal last night Max! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 The point is that Bard is all hyped up and Robertson had matched him up to this season and he's be been better this season. "Horrible" control is pushing it too. Robertson has not matched up to him until this year. And for career it's still not even close. Robertson is having a good year. So is Bard. The numbers don't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Robertson has not matched up to him until this year. And for career it's still not even close. Robertson is having a good year. So is Bard. The numbers don't lie. Robertson's career FIP is a quarter of a run better because of his 12.1 k9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Robertson's career FIP is a quarter of a run better because of his 12.1 k9. FIP? More made up stats? Is FIP on the back of baseball cards now? Just check the WHIP and ERA. You know the stats that have been around since forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 The point is that Bard is all hyped up and Robertson had matched him up to this season and he's be been better this season. "Horrible" control is pushing it too. Robertson did not have him matched up until this season. Bard had almost double Robertson's WAR last season. And 4.91 BB/9 is pretty bad. Normally, I would say Robertson should consider dialing it down a bit, but he's been very effective in spite of the walks so idk. And Roberston's career FIP is deflated by his luck in not giving up a home run yet this year. Before this year, his HR/FB hovered pretty steadily around 9%, so I would expect a regression. Then again, his K/9 has jumped this year so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 FIP? More made up stats? Is FIP on the back of baseball cards now? Just check the WHIP and ERA. You know the stats that have been around since forever. WHIP was invented in 1979. And FIP is a lot better at predicting future ERA than ERA itself is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 WHIP was invented in 1979. And FIP is a lot better at predicting future ERA than ERA itself is. Not everyone believes in Sabremetrics or any stats like that. Lots of stats can help you predict lots of things, but I'd be willing to bet the majority of the time they aren't correct. Just look at meteorologists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmikeisback Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Robertson did not have him matched up until this season. Bard had almost double Robertson's WAR last season. And 4.91 BB/9 is pretty bad. Normally, I would say Robertson should consider dialing it down a bit, but he's been very effective in spite of the walks so idk. And Roberston's career FIP is deflated by his luck in not giving up a home run yet this year. Before this year, his HR/FB hovered pretty steadily around 9%, so I would expect a regression. Then again, his K/9 has jumped this year so who knows. You're right about his luck with homers this season and that should probably normalize but the guy's career k9 is 12.1 that's an elite level RP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 WHIP was invented in 1979. And FIP is a lot better at predicting future ERA than ERA itself is. Yeah. Invented. Back when I was a kid we had to add up the walks and hits divide by innings pitched all by ourselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Yeah. Invented. Back when I was a kid we had to add up the walks and hits divide by innings pitched all by ourselves! Good thing you had a slide rule to do the heavy lifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Good thing you had a slide rule to do the heavy lifting. One word. Abacus. I don't think the Comodore 64 could handle such sophisticated calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I don't think the Comodore 64 could handle such sophisticated calculations. BS. Micro League Baseball is one of the greatest sports sims of all-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 BS. Micro League Baseball is one of the greatest sports sims of all-time. Dude. Did you know that if you bunted a player that was a 4 or 5 in speed every time up they would hit around .500 in that game? It was a great loophole. Ah to be a kid again in the days before the internet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWWombat Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 You're right about his luck with homers this season and that should probably normalize but the guy's career k9 is 12.1 that's an elite level RP. Yeah, his K's are really really nice. His walks worry me but he's definitely elite. xFIP likes him and Bard equally while SIERA (which I'm not sure I understand yet) gives a slight edge to Bard. Any way you slice it, both of them are terrific and I would love to have either on my team. Also, SIERA likes Hughes a bit more than the other metrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Jets & Ham Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Hughes will win the AL Cy Young next season. Take it to the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hughes will win the AL Cy Young next season. Take it to the bank. Is that likely to happen with a healthy Joba out there next year? ACEEEEEE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hughes will win the AL Cy Young next season. Take it to the bank. GFY, Shortboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 GFY, Shortboy. Why would a mod personally attack a poster? Cmon man you are better than that. If you aren't you need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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