103 replies to this topic

[Lupz27]

Was the Dolphins first season under Philbin a disaster?

I'm pretty sure the Phins were, and are still like 60 million under the cap, compared to 20 million over like the Jets

[T0mShane]

Oh no, what a challenge that must be. Haven't they seen the latest news?

I want me one of those Kirk Ferentz-lovin' GMs.

[SenorGato]

I want me one of those Kirk Ferentz-lovin' GMs.

I do too. I would much prefer that to a Tom Bumble**** DL coach just because his team is the latest fad in the NFL.

[Pac]

-True. But CB/DB's were the best part of our team this year by a long shot even without him. We still went 6-10. Do you really think adding a better CB wins us any more games?
-How? Scott will be gone and they will replace him with Demario Davis. Pace and Harris will still be starting, and depending on if we draft a pass rushing OLB or not, we will likely see Mcyntire start in Thomas's place. I don't see any major upgrades there. If anything, just less depth.
-Holmes, yes. And if we go get a new QB, he will probably be the same pain in the ass, selfish clown that he's always been. Keller is a FA, and given our cap situation - likely won't be back.
- Our biggest issue is offense, mainly QB. There are no QB's that I am comfortable with in the top 10 of this years draft. If we don't go OLB with that pick, we will likely trade down, looking to add some depth to the OL, WR, and LB corps.
- Not so sure about this yet. Who are we going to start instead? He will most certainly be on the roster still, we don't have the cap space to sign anyone good in FA, and if we draft someone, Sanchez will probably beat out any of the QBs in this draft class in TC this year anyway. Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Sanchez behind C again this year.

- I don't subscribe to Bitonis theory that Revis gives us 4 extra wins but I do believe when you pair him with Cromartie and take into account the maturation of Coples, Ellis, and Wilkerson you could see the type of D we'd hoped for this year.

- Scott will be gone which is addition by subtraction.. you can get a JAG for the league minimum to maintain or improve what Pace has done. Davis should be better next year plus they'll likely take a LB early in the draft. That should be a significant improvement over what we fielded this year.

- Hopefully Holmes found some humility during his hiatus.. probably not but we can hope. Kellers injury riddled season may be a blessing in disguise. Should allow us to bring him back at a reasonable cost.

- I think they'll restructure Mark and bring in Smith (hopefully). Cut ties with Mark next offseason and draft your QB of the future when the draft class is a lot more attractive.

[LionelRichie]

Yes, I may be reaching, but consider the totality of the Jets situation.

Our pro bowl safety has said the Jets get no discount and he's going to the highest bidder, which we probably can't afford to be. This season is most likely going to be a failure.

I read a lot of these "throw the 2013 season and play for the #1 pick" threads and it makes no sense to me. Who is the franchise QB coming out in '14? And what guarantee is there that the Jets get the #1 overall pick?

If you look at what Pete Carroll is doing in SEA - he build the Defense, OL, and the culture. The QB came in year 3. I don't see why the Jets can't do something very similar over the next few seasons.

The Jets made the AFC Championship game 2 years in a row with a very weak QB. The key to both seasons was OL and defense. Same thing that the Texans, Seahawks, 49ers, and Bengals have. The next GM needs 2 to build a top 5 OL and find a DC that can take avg. talent and make it into a top 10 defense.

[Sperm Edwards]

There is zero chance it aids the GM search, you could say it does not hurt, which I strongly disagree with, but in no way does it aid, if the new GM wants Ryan, he keeps him, but the lack of a choice cannot possibly aid.

If the most coveted new GM wants Ryan, then it aids the GM search, no?

Bullseye on Rex's back not the GM's to start.

These are two ways it aids in the GM search. You may not feel that way, and clearly you don't, but you're only looking at it through the prism of a Jets fan who hates Rex.

[Sperm Edwards]

I read a lot of these "throw the 2013 season and play for the #1 pick" threads and it makes no sense to me. Who is the franchise QB coming out in '14? And what guarantee is there that the Jets get the #1 overall pick?

If you look at what Pete Carroll is doing in SEA - he build the Defense, OL, and the culture. The QB came in year 3. I don't see why the Jets can't do something very similar over the next few seasons.

The Jets made the AFC Championship game 2 years in a row with a very weak QB. The key to both seasons was OL and defense. Same thing that the Texans, Seahawks, 49ers, and Bengals have. The next GM needs 2 to build a top 5 OL and find a DC that can take avg. talent and make it into a top 10 defense.

I'm not saying "throw the season away" though that is the interpretation by some. I'm not saying to suck for a better draft pick next year. I'm saying they're likely going to suck based on circumstances beyond the new GM's control, unless we get lucky.

I'm saying we have over a dozen starters whose contracts are up and we don't have enough cap room to re-sign all of them. AND we have no QB and don't even have a backup QB.

We'll have this year's draft and (after some cuts) will have about $10-15M in cap space to sign or re-sign a starting QB, a backup QB, a starting RB, a starting WR, a starting TE, a starting LG, a starting RG, a starting RT, two starting OLBs, a starting ILB (unless Davis starts), two safeties, a kicker and a punter. AND have to look at what to do with Revis who isn't even running yet, since he's a UFA after 2013 and we can't franchise tag him.

I'm not saying we should try and suck. I'm saying it's likely to happen whether you want it to or not.

Yes, we COULD find 3 immediate starters in the draft, pick up a couple of FAs, have Davis step in and start at a high level, and have 1 or 2 current backups get better, and make the playoffs. Absolutely it can happen. But it probably won't.

[bitonti]

to take the other side of this argument why is Tomasula a defense line coach gonna be better at defense than Rex? It's not like Gamble wants to bring in Chip Kelly. He's got positional guys not even coordinator all lined up why is that such a hot idea?

[bitonti]

- I don't subscribe to Bitonis theory that Revis gives us 4 extra wins

I don't think I ever said 4. but it's more than zero extra wins. it's all a hypothetical but when the team's best player goes down the season is usually over.

[SenorGato]

So basically I should just hope for hockey?

[jack48]

Philbin didn't have greater than 50% of the Dolphins starting roster not under contract in a season they had no cap room and not even so much as a backup QB. Oh yeah, and the QB prospects this year supposedly suck ass.

Really, this situation is pretty unique. The light at the end of the tunnel is being the GM in 2014 without a lame-duck 2013 GM screwing up future years to try to save his own skin. So at least we got the firing Tannenbaum part right.

A new GM isn't as invested in hating Rex as much as many here are. At the very worst, he'd see Rex as an incompetent clown (if he even feels that way at all). If 2013 is a mulligan year, why set up yourself and your own guy to take blame for it?

Looking at the situation as a non-Jets fan, being force-fed Rex for 1 season might be a good thing because this force-feeding is public.

Maybe.

So, pile up some draft picks for this year and next year, and then go after som FAs next year?

[unbanmadmike1]

to take the other side of this argument why is Tomasula a defense line coach gonna be better at defense than Rex? It's not like Gamble wants to bring in Chip Kelly. He's got positional guys not even coordinator all lined up why is that such a hot idea?

I would not be on board with another defensive coach. Thats not 2012 football.

[slats]

You are calling for less wins next year even though:

- Revis will be back
- the LBer corps will be revamped
- Holmes and Keller will be back
- We'll have the 9th pick in the draft
- Sanchez will likely not be the starting QB

and I'm delusional...

No lock on Revis. New GM is going to need to decide whether he wants to try and resign him or trade him, a decision that will probably be made before the draft. Revis could easily be gone for picks.

Probably losing a couple old LBs, but there's no guarantee of an upgrade.

I'll happily give you 3 & 4...

Unfortunately, there's really no telling yet on Sanchez.

[Pac]

No lock on Revis. New GM is going to need to decide whether he wants to try and resign him or trade him, a decision that will probably be made before the draft. Revis could easily be gone for picks.

Unless it's an RG3 or Carson Palmer like return I'm not sure a new GM will be able to strut in and justify a trade. We are talking about one of the greatest Jets of all time.

I'm hoping Revis takes a 2 year, incentive laden "prove it" contract similar to Landry's 1 yr deal. The Jets ace in the hole will be knowing that no team will sign Revis to a monster contract without first seeing if he can still play like the best CB in the game.

Works for both sides.. Revis can get his money provided he plays well and the Jets will be able to fetch a much better package if they decide to trade him after next year. It also gives the team a chance to get to 14' which from what I'm reading is when all of you are saying there will be much more money available.

Cromartie and the rest of the DB's stepping up the way they did should help the Jets as well by showing Revis and his agents they can survive without him.

If Gamble (or whoever) moonwalks in and trades Revis for a pick or 2 they'll get crucified.

[Bleedin Green]

Unless it's an RG3 or Carson Palmer like return I'm not sure a new GM will be able to strut in and justify a trade. We are talking about one of the greatest Jets of all time.

I'm hoping Revis takes a 2 year, incentive laden "prove it" contract similar to Landry's 1 yr deal. The Jets ace in the hole will be knowing that no team will sign Revis to a monster contract without first seeing if he can still play like the best CB in the game.

Works for both sides.. Revis can get his money provided he plays well and the Jets will be able to fetch a much better package if they decide to trade him after next year. It also gives the team a chance to get to 14' which from what I'm reading is when all of you are saying there will be much more money available.

Cromartie and the rest of the DB's stepping up the way they did should help the Jets as well by showing Revis and his agents they can survive without him.

If Gamble (or whoever) moonwalks in and trades Revis for a pick or 2 they'll get crucified.

While a potential contract at this point might be reduced by a slight amount due to the injury, there's no reason to think it will have a significant impact on what they can get him to agree to and that's because one major factor here that influences all of this is Revis' confidence. Any of us who have listened to Revis over these past 6 years knows full well how highly he thinks of himself as a player, and I don't think there's any doubt he has all the confidence in the world that after a full year of recovery, he'll be as good as he ever was. He's essentially already been quoted as saying as much. If that is the case, he will have no incentive to put himself into a situation that doesn't pay him what he feels he deserves after this year. He'll probably know better than to think holding out or demanding a new contract this year will get him anywhere, but do you really think he doesn't see the opportunity available to him by coming back next year, playing at the level he has in the past, and then becoming a FA (which the Jets can do nothing to stop)?

Revis hitting FA after a big year is his most sure-fire guarantee to cash in big time and we all know that's his #1 concern. So the question becomes, how much is Revis going to need in order to lock him up now, before he's proven himself coming off of the injury? If it's a number beyond what our GM is willing to pay, and knowing full well that the number is only going to go up from there (barring another injury or a poor season of play), how can you not at least consider the possibility of trading him? If the Jets find themselves in a position where all signs point to Revis being gone in a year, and there's a good enough offer on the table from another team, at what point do you realize that what is essentially a one year rental of a player coming off an injury simply isn't worth passing on that offer?

[Bugg]

I read a lot of these "throw the 2013 season and play for the #1 pick" threads and it makes no sense to me. Who is the franchise QB coming out in '14? And what guarantee is there that the Jets get the #1 overall pick?

If you look at what Pete Carroll is doing in SEA - he build the Defense, OL, and the culture. The QB came in year 3. I don't see why the Jets can't do something very similar over the next few seasons.

The Jets made the AFC Championship game 2 years in a row with a very weak QB. The key to both seasons was OL and defense. Same thing that the Texans, Seahawks, 49ers, and Bengals have. The next GM needs 2 to build a top 5 OL and find a DC that can take avg. talent and make it into a top 10 defense.

Clowney?

[slats]

Unless it's an RG3 or Carson Palmer like return I'm not sure a new GM will be able to strut in and justify a trade. We are talking about one of the greatest Jets of all time.

I'm hoping Revis takes a 2 year, incentive laden "prove it" contract similar to Landry's 1 yr deal. The Jets ace in the hole will be knowing that no team will sign Revis to a monster contract without first seeing if he can still play like the best CB in the game.

Works for both sides.. Revis can get his money provided he plays well and the Jets will be able to fetch a much better package if they decide to trade him after next year. It also gives the team a chance to get to 14' which from what I'm reading is when all of you are saying there will be much more money available.

Cromartie and the rest of the DB's stepping up the way they did should help the Jets as well by showing Revis and his agents they can survive without him.

If Gamble (or whoever) moonwalks in and trades Revis for a pick or 2 they'll get crucified.

I don't think Revis' injury effects his value very much - either in a trade or a new contract. He was never a speed player, and nowadays NFL players recover 100% from ACLs routinely. If they don't get Revis signed to an extension this year, next year he walks as a free agent, leaving the Jets to hope for a compensatory third rounder in 2015.

I think new GM needs to approach Revis about a contract, and if that contract is unreasonable for him, he needs to explore trade options sooner rather than later. A lot of fans love the player on the field but can't stand his holdouts off of it. I really don't think trading him would be too much of a public relations nightmare, especially if its framed in financial terms.

[JFtoLong]

If the most coveted new GM wants Ryan, then it aids the GM search, no?

Bullseye on Rex's back not the GM's to start.

These are two ways it aids in the GM search. You may not feel that way, and clearly you don't, but you're only looking at it through the prism of a Jets fan who hates Rex.

Still not sure how it actually aids the search to say Rex MUST stay.

If the GM has the choice to keep or fire Rex, and the coveted GM wants Rex, he keeps him, if not, he fires him, pretty straight forward.

This does not have anything to do with my hatred for Rex, I admit I think he is a very bad head coach, but this is more about our meddling owner.

To me, if I were a GM candidate, even if I liked Rex as the head coach and planned to keep him, it would be a red flag if the owner was saying I MUST keep him if I want the job, it would concern me that he likes to meddle in football decisions, ecspecially when everyone thinks he forced Tebow on the team.

To me, I would be hesitant to take a high profile GM job in NY, where the owner is going to be making football decisions. Owners are not usually football guys, Woody should not be making football decisions, I don't see how in any way this helps.

If you want to say it does not hurt, I don't agree, but in some cases it may not hurt, but I still don't see how it helps in any way.

[Sperm Edwards]

Still not sure how it actually aids the search to say Rex MUST stay.

If the GM has the choice to keep or fire Rex, and the coveted GM wants Rex, he keeps him, if not, he fires him, pretty straight forward.

This does not have anything to do with my hatred for Rex, I admit I think he is a very bad head coach, but this is more about our meddling owner.

To me, if I were a GM candidate, even if I liked Rex as the head coach and planned to keep him, it would be a red flag if the owner was saying I MUST keep him if I want the job, it would concern me that he likes to meddle in football decisions, ecspecially when everyone thinks he forced Tebow on the team.

To me, I would be hesitant to take a high profile GM job in NY, where the owner is going to be making football decisions. Owners are not usually football guys, Woody should not be making football decisions, I don't see how in any way this helps.

If you want to say it does not hurt, I don't agree, but in some cases it may not hurt, but I still don't see how it helps in any way.

Because inheriting Rex is less burden on the new GM. The way it is now, it's on Woody. If Woody says, "Well it's up to the new GM, whoever that ends up being," and said new GM is willing to give Rex another year, then it's on the new GM. This would make the new GM the fall guy for another year of Rex.

You have to look at the situation from someone else's perspective; particularly that of a non-Jets fan GM getting his first GM job. It's tough after an awful season.

I would say the only way this hurts is if a new GM, with the rest of the mess he'd walk into, still wants no part of Rex and Woody says that disqualifies the candidate or it sours the candidate on the job to the point where he turns it down.

A year of Rex creates job security for the GM and for his (eventual) hand-picked Rex replacement. GM doesn't have to risk his reputation on Rex (since he's being force-fed Rex), and the new HC (who the GM will be held accountable for as well) doesn't have to deal with a year 1 mess.

I'm telling you it's not as bad as it seems. Granted, it could be better, but it isn't the disaster you're making it out to be. The disaster is the state Tannenbaum left, not the fact that this mess comes complete with 1 year of Rex Ryan to be the lightning rod for any and all bad press covering the Jets.

[Sperm Edwards]

You are calling for less wins next year even though:

- Revis will be back - this is your assumption. He's only under contract for 1 more year and has mega trade value.
- the LBer corps will be revamped - it is your assumption that it will be revamped for the better in year 1.
- Holmes and Keller will be back - Holmes is a safe assumption. Keller is a FA who thinks he's worth more than a franchise tag.
- We'll have the 9th pick in the draft - yes.
- Sanchez will likely not be the starting QB - 50/50 at this point, unfortunately. As likely as not, we draft someone and Sanchez gets the nod at the start of the season.

and I'm delusional...

I would say you are likely to be wrong about one or more of these "sure things" you state. Plus you haven't addressed our 3 offensive linemen who have no contract, no RB, no FB, need another starting WR, both 2012 safeties are free agents, and we have dick in cap space (again).

It wasn't long ago you were expressing equally lofty optimism about Mark Sanchez. Likewise, it is an equally grand assumption that the 2013 Jets will automatically be better than the 2012 Jets. Particularly until it's known who the starting (or even the backup) QB is.